Nurse Lucy Letby Guilty

[daviemac]

You may be right, but it wouldn't surprise me if at least initially she was held in Rampton.
She may not be a psychiatric case, but the enhanced security there would make it easier to keep her safe from the other inmates.
As an example, Ashworth Hospital holds a small number of non-medical high-secure prisoners for the same reason. No, I won't name them

Low Newton is a Cat A high security prison, Rose West was there until 2019 when they moved her out after new inmate Joanna Dennehy, who was up to now the only other full term lifer, threatened to kill her.

Mind if Dennehy wanted to kill West for what she did what will she want to do to Letby.

[timsussex]

According to the Daily Mail
Inside the prison where Lucy Letby will spend the rest of her life: Evil nurse will die alongside fellow serial killer Joanna Dennehy in HMP Low Newton where inmates sleep in pink cells and get the chance to pet baby animals

they mght have to rethink that last bit

[DastardlyDick]

I wonder if she had private lawyers or paid for by the state?

On a nurses pay? it would have to be a State paid for lawyer, unless she has a well off family.
I've just seen the sentencing - apparently, she falsified some her victims medical records so that a "natural death" would be more likely to come from a PM.

[CigarSmoke]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

[PumpDump]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

Actually a girl I met pre-Covid who replied to my craigslist ad looks very similar. So in a way I almost have!

[Matium]

I hope the parents and families of the babies killed will find some solace and consolation from the fact that this woman will die in prison.

[daviemac]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

Is that all you've got to contribute to this thread, you know the one about the woman who murdered newborn babies. 

[timsussex]

Is that all you've got to contribute to this thread, you know the one about the woman who murdered newborn babies. 

Perhaps he's a prison Officer ?

[Lou2019]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

Are you fucking serious 

[Lou2019]

Actually a girl I met pre-Covid who replied to my craigslist ad looks very similar. So in a way I almost have!

 

And you are just as bad by responding to such a vile comment!

[daviemac]

I wonder if she had private lawyers or paid for by the state? I can tell you that a state defence is not fit for purpose, those bastards do the minimal amount of work and will not even pick up the phone when you call.

Don't break the law and you wouldn't need to use them.

As far as her defence council goes. -

Benjamin Myers KC is a leading criminal silk.  Described as ‘brilliant’, ‘extremely astute’ ‘an exceptionally gifted lawyer – a fearsome advocate,’ with ‘an exceptional ability to digest complex cases’, he appears in courts across the country and is ranked at the top of his field in crime and financial crime in Chambers Guide to the Legal Profession and in the Legal 500.  He has been shortlisted as the Legal 500 Crime Silk of the Year 2022.

So don't think he's as bad as the legal aid one you must have had.

[Thephoenix]

I think it's only right that they sit there and see and hear the damage they have done to people. Some criminals may actually get a kick out of it.  She wouldn't kick off about it.  It would be something she could replay in her mind for the rest of her life.

I'm not completely convinced about the idea.
Some people are wrongly convicted.
Imagine if the offenders are innocent and later released on appeal, after having to listen to all the victim impact statements etc.

[RandomGuy99]

I'm not completely convinced about the idea.
Some people are wrongly convicted.
Imagine if the offenders are innocent and later released on appeal, after having to listen to all the victim impact statements etc.

Well I guess they then protest and say I didn't do it. They get one final opportunity to speak and have their say.

I only just realised today that all these deaths happened over a 12 month period.

Hidden Image/Members Only

Perhaps she was jealous of the families having happy married lives and she took pleasure from ruining their lives.

[Jonestown]

Hidden Image/Members Only

What happened november to March ?

[chrishornx]

What happened november to March ?

presumably nothing?

[chrishornx]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

stupid comment

[PepeMAGA]

Don't break the law and you wouldn't need to use them.

As far as her defence council goes. -

So don't think he's as bad as the legal aid one you must have had.

At least she didn't do a Bundy and represent herself. Probably considered a giveaway nowadays.

[puntingking]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

your reason is because you "don't fancy her" and not the fact that she has murdered babies.

You're disgusting and your question sends chills down my back.

[CigarSmoke]

Okay, okay I'm sorry. Forget it then. Thats inappropriate then.

[Lou2019]

Okay, okay I'm sorry. Forget it then. Thats inappropriate then.

Yet you needed people to point it out to you it was inappropriate, disgusting!

[Watts.E.Dunn]

So the shit show carries on, poor old Judge Goss , impressive how he held his composture is denied saying "Take her down"

The vile bitch ought  to have beed dragged up from the cells by her fucking ears to give her some idea of the pain those poor babies suffered helpless in her eveil hands.

Well lets hope a full on enquirey is held, I think there a lot more that ought be aired on this whole matter including the management muppets who have a lot to answer for!..

[RadioKid]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

Is this the time or place to make such a stupid comment?

[RadioKid]

So the shit show carries on, poor old Judge Goss , impressive how he held his composture is denied saying "Take her down"

The vile bitch ought  to have beed dragged up from the cells by her fucking ears to give her some idea of the pain those poor babies suffered helpless in her eveil hands.

Well lets hope a full on enquirey is held, I think there a lot more that ought be aired on this whole matter including the management muppets who have a lot to answer for!..

Spot on

[FLYING BLUE]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

FFS - really??

[finn5555]

Okay, okay I'm sorry. Forget it then. Thats inappropriate then.

Stupid comment under the circumstances, some will take offence, but no harm done

[myothernameis]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

Are you for real, parents have lost there kids, and all you can ask, would we punt with her.  But you go on to say, you wouldn't, and you dont fancy her, that says a lot, a sick comment from you

[contentguy]

So the shit show carries on, poor old Judge Goss , impressive how he held his composture is denied saying "Take her down"

The vile bitch ought  to have beed dragged up from the cells by her fucking ears to give her some idea of the pain those poor babies suffered helpless in her eveil hands.

Well lets hope a full on enquirey is held, I think there a lot more that ought be aired on this whole matter including the management muppets who have a lot to answer for!..

Former Nursing Director suspended in her new role
External Link/Members Only.

[PumpDump]

Don't break the law and you wouldn't need to use them.

You think everyone who needs a defence lawyer has broken the law?

As far as her defence council goes. -
Benjamin Myers KC is a leading criminal silk.  Described as ‘brilliant’, ‘extremely astute’ ‘an exceptionally gifted lawyer – a fearsome advocate,’ with ‘an exceptional ability to digest complex cases’, he appears in courts across the country and is ranked at the top of his field in crime and financial crime in Chambers Guide to the Legal Profession and in the Legal 500.  He has been shortlisted as the Legal 500 Crime Silk of the Year 2022.

A public defence lawyer gets a flat fee regardless of the time spend on a case. Many only exhibit their brilliance when they are paid by the minute by a private client. The defence didn't even put forward an expert witness to challenge any of the prosecution's evidence.

[daviemac]

You think everyone who needs a defence lawyer has broken the law?
A public defence lawyer gets a flat fee regardless of the time spend on a case. Many only exhibit their brilliance when they are paid by the minute by a private client. The defence didn't even put forward an expert witness to challenge any of the prosecution's evidence.

Why would anyone need a publicly funded defence lawyer if not to defend a criminal action and why would you need to phone the said lawyer if not to discuss a criminal case. 

I prefer not to speculate on the finer details of the case because I'm not privy to all the facts, but one thing is for sure if the defence did not bring all the relevant witnesses to court that is grounds for an appeal

[PumpDump]

Why would anyone need a publicly funded defence lawyer if not to defend a criminal action and why would you need to phone the said lawyer if not to discuss a criminal case. 

Because you could be charged with a crime you are innocent of. You need a legal team to fight the case.

[RedKettle]

A public defence lawyer gets a flat fee regardless of the time spend on a case. Many only exhibit their brilliance when they are paid by the minute by a private client. The defence didn't even put forward an expert witness to challenge any of the prosecution's evidence.

That is simply not true.

[Dickled]

Something I find chilling is that the pre-arrest photos of her appear to reveal somebody who looks so nice and likeable and ordinary.
I believe she'll be sharing a prison with Joanna Dennehy. I think her physiognomy screams evil, but Lucy Letby just looked so unremarkable and everyday and, yes, pretty I suppose.
Never was I more clearly reminded of the aphorism, "Never judge a book by its cover".

[Doc Holliday]

Something I find chilling is that the pre-arrest photos of her appear to reveal somebody who looks so nice and likeable and ordinary.
I believe she'll be sharing a prison with Joanna Dennehy. I think her physiognomy screams evil, but Lucy Letby just looked so unremarkable and everyday and, yes, pretty I suppose.
Never was I more clearly reminded of the aphorism, "Never judge a book by its cover".

A common characteristic of Sociopaths or those classed with ASPD is that that display a superficial charm.

Also there is very little point in such a person being forced to listen to witness statements from the perspective of making them feel any remorse as they are incapable of such.

Regarding the hospital's actions etc this is an extremely complex discussion, but it is just another aspect of how the NHS is totally fucked and has been for a long time now.

[RedKettle]

Also there is very little point in such a person being forced to listen to witness statements from the perspective of making them feel any remorse as they are incapable of such.

I am sure that is right. However i think the point is to give the families of the victims a chance to see justice being done and to vent their feelings at the murderer.  If it helps them in the slightest I am all for it.

[RedKettle]

Something I find chilling is that the pre-arrest photos of her appear to reveal somebody who looks so nice and likeable and ordinary.
I believe she'll be sharing a prison with Joanna Dennehy. I think her physiognomy screams evil, but Lucy Letby just looked so unremarkable and everyday and, yes, pretty I suppose.
Never was I more clearly reminded of the aphorism, "Never judge a book by its cover".

Totally agree with that.  I was looking at the photo they kept using on the news and was instinctively feeling that she could not possibly be guilty, despite my logical side knowing that of course she might be.

I think that is still why a few people are muttering about possible miscarriage of justice, they simply cannot perceive of the person that picture portrays to them being guilty.

[PumpDump]

That is simply not true.

Which part?

[Doc Holliday]

I am sure that is right. However i think the point is to give the families of the victims a chance to see justice being done and to vent their feelings at the murderer.  If it helps them in the slightest I am all for it.

Yes I agree, but that is a different justification for making the convicted person appear. Some are suggesting that by her listening to the victim statements and effects on the families it is, in some way, going to make her 'feel something' and that is extremely unlikely. 

[PumpDump]

Totally agree with that.  I was looking at the photo they kept using on the news and was instinctively feeling that she could not possibly be guilty, despite my logical side knowing that of course she might be.

I think that is still why a few people are muttering about possible miscarriage of justice, they simply cannot perceive of the person that picture portrays to them being guilty.

Something doesn't sit right with me about this case. I have been reading this site which questions the evidence and makes interesting reading External Link/Members Only. I am not saying I believe she is innocent, but I also don't feel, from what I read in the reporting, that the prosecution presented a strong case against her. The fact that there seems to be no apparent motive makes me uneasy about the conviction also.

[RedKettle]

Which part?

The flat fee. You really think a barrister spent months on a murder trail for a flat fee?

[RedKettle]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this case. I have been reading this site which questions the evidence and makes interesting reading External Link/Members Only. I am not saying I believe she is innocent, but I also don't feel, from what I read in the reporting, that the prosecution presented a strong case against her. The fact that there seems to be no apparent motive makes me uneasy about the conviction also.

You never get an apparent motive as you call it with a mass murderer. Other then that they are unhinged in some way.

[RandomGuy99]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this case. I have been reading this site which questions the evidence and makes interesting reading External Link/Members Only. I am not saying I believe she is innocent, but I also don't feel, from what I read in the reporting, that the prosecution presented a strong case against her. The fact that there seems to be no apparent motive makes me uneasy about the conviction also.

Apparently the fact that the deaths moved from night time to day time when Lucy Letby moved from night shift to day shift was viewed as significant. I'm assuming that when she went on holiday there were also no deaths.

[mh]

Would anyone here punt Nurse Lucy? I wouldn't. Don't fancy her.

Dumb as the comment is, she's not ugly, she's not fat, seemed to have a social life and friends. There are a lot of takes about how she "doesn't look like a baby killer". So what does one look like? There are even considerations that because she had the 'girl next door' appearance she has, the protection she received by the trust management was in some way 'understandable'.

[mh]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this case. I have been reading this site which questions the evidence and makes interesting reading External Link/Members Only. I am not saying I believe she is innocent, but I also don't feel, from what I read in the reporting, that the prosecution presented a strong case against her. The fact that there seems to be no apparent motive makes me uneasy about the conviction also.

Luckily for you a jury sat through 10 months of evidence on your behalf, hearing all the evidence. They found her guilty. If the trial was flawed in some way or new evidence comes to light then she can appeal the verdict.

[PumpDump]

The flat fee. You really think a barrister spent months on a murder trail for a flat fee?

I didn't mean the barrister, I meant the defence solicitor. I was told this by a solicitor. He said they are paid a flat fee regardless of how much time they spend on the case. He said this was the reason for their strikes a few years back. I am only going by what he told me. Do you know something I don't?

EDIT:
Some details of what they are paid here: External Link/Members Only

The amount paid for attending at the police station varies, according to geographic location, from £122.88 to £162.20 (across Merseyside) for an entire case, no matter how many times the solicitor has to return and regardless of the seriousness of the charge.

Fixed fees for cases in the magistrates’ courts range from £182.81 for the least serious guilty plea to £653.99 for the most serious trial (with standard fee limits ranging from £246.22 to £704.88). The rates are worked out using a notional hourly rate of £44.43 (the national rate; the London figure is a slightly higher £45.50). Meanwhile, fees paid in the Crown Court for the most serious offences are £615.14 for a guilty plea, £817.84 for a cracked trial and £1,326.86 for trial.

[PumpDump]

Luckily for you a jury sat through 10 months of evidence on your behalf, hearing all the evidence. They found her guilty. If the trial was flawed in some way or new evidence comes to light then she can appeal the verdict.

A jury also sat through the trial of Andrew Malkinson and many others who were convicted on weak evidence.

[Thephoenix]

A jury also sat through the trial of Andrew Malkinson and many others who were convicted on weak evidence.

At least 1 and possibly 2 of the jury members found her not guilty.
I followed the trial more than most as it was reported in detail in the local press.

All I can say is  I feel intensely sorry for everyone involved in this sad case.
The babies, the parents, the doctors and hospital staff, Letby's parents and friends and maybe surprisingly to some, Lucy Letby herself.

What would make this attractive young woman and dedicated pediatric nurse be so cruel and have to face the consequences and live with the guilt for the rest of her life.

[mr.bluesky]

I very much doubt whether killers like her, Rose West or Myra Hindley actually suffer from guilt for their actions.  This what makes them evil cold blooded killers

[scutty brown]

Luckily for you a jury sat through 10 months of evidence on your behalf, hearing all the evidence. They found her guilty. If the trial was flawed in some way or new evidence comes to light then she can appeal the verdict.

The real problem though is whether a jury of random people are actually capable of understanding the scientific and medical information being presented to them, especially over a ten month period. So much data to take in, much of it beyond the understanding of a non-specialist. In my view it's impossible to call this a safe verdict because it's impossible for a lay person to understand the evidence. I'm not saying she's innocent. Just that I don't believe a jury trial can ever deliver a safe verdict in such technically demanding cases. It seems to me that cases like this may be better held without a jury, maybe three judges plus a team of suitably qualified advisors, familiar with the technical issues? But again, in this case it's not even certain those qualified advisors exist, this trial was exploring the perimeters of known medical science: for obvious reasons no-one has experimented in the methods of death alleged to be used. That "Science on Trial" link given above by PumpDump is interesting ( External Link/Members Only ). Unfortunately it's written in a style reminiscent of Putin's propaganda machine - which brings doubts over it's veracity and purpose. But even so there's enough in there to suggest this case needs to go to appeal to have it's safety checked.

[DastardlyDick]

At least 1 and possibly 2 of the jury members found her not guilty.
I followed the trial more than most as it was reported in detail in the local press.

All I can say is  I feel intensely sorry for everyone involved in this sad case.
The babies, the parents, the doctors and hospital staff, Letby's parents and friends and maybe surprisingly to some, Lucy Letby herself.

What would make this attractive young woman and dedicated pediatric nurse be so cruel and have to face the consequences and live with the guilt for the rest of her life.

It was a majority verdict? I didn't know that.
It seems strange to me that she's been doing this job for several years with no reported "incidents" and was even mentoring junior members of staff, then suddenly goes off the rails in 2015 which is why I think it's some sort of mental illness. Not saying that as an excuse for her to kill, or otherwise harm, these children but it may explain her apparent lack of remorse - her brain is telling her that what she's done is normal behaviour.

[RedKettle]

I didn't mean the barrister, I meant the defence solicitor. I was told this by a solicitor. He said they are paid a flat fee regardless of how much time they spend on the case. He said this was the reason for their strikes a few years back. I am only going by what he told me. Do you know something I don't?

EDIT:
Some details of what they are paid here: External Link/Members Only

That is crap. Just not the case for a 10 month trial.  You are also ignoring whether her and her parents paid privately for a lawyer.