Stabbing in Southport

[puntingking]

Why do you guys think there is so little crime in Dubai?

I ask Google and it said - Dubai has a low crime rate due to a combination of factors, including strict laws, heavy penalties for offenses, and a strong police presence. The city also has a sophisticated surveillance system and a culture that prioritizes safety.

 

[DastardlyDick]

Why do you guys think there is so little crime in Dubai?

Maybe because it's a relatively small place, so easy to police?

[Bangman]

I ask Google and it said - Dubai has a low crime rate due to a combination of factors, including strict laws, heavy penalties for offenses, and a strong police presence. The city also has a sophisticated surveillance system and a culture that prioritizes safety.

No need to ask Google mate unless your news source is gb news, Tommy Robinson followers or the sun newspaper which tries its best to publish negative stuff about Dubai. I've been Dubai 2 dozen times, i love Punting there (i wrote a thread about this). Ive partied there, yes! Ive drunk alcohol and even held my wifes hand on jumearah beach, i didnt get arrested. It's very multiple cultural, Americans, Asians, Africans and Europeans residing there. Very safe, you don't need to worry about burglers, someone trying to rob you, never heard any incidents of rape whenever I'm there....
Why?
You have to respect culture, religion, and the strict laws.. otherwise there will be consequences .
You can Love it, hate it, don't matter, it's a popular tourist destination, millions of visitors every year..

Anyway..don't want to go off topic..
That axel scum...I hope he gets punished in prison

[daviemac]

Why do you guys think there is so little crime in Dubai?

Can you explain what that statement has to do with this thread?   

[chrishornx]

What has the crime rate in Dubai got to to do with the tragic murder of three little girls in Southport?

[chrishornx]

Can you explain what that statement has to do with this thread?   

apologies Davie your post went up as I was typing mine

[daviemac]

This thread is about the sad events in Southport, what happens in the rest of the world has nothing to do with it.

If you can't post on the thread topic then don't post.

[daviemac]

apologies Davie your post went up as I was typing mine

No probs.

[webpunter]

No need to ask Google mate unless your news source is gb news, Tommy Robinson followers or the sun newspaper which tries its best to publish negative stuff about Dubai. I've been Dubai 2 dozen times, i love Punting there (i wrote a thread about this). Ive partied there, yes! Ive drunk alcohol and even held my wifes hand on jumearah beach, i didnt get arrested. It's very multiple cultural, Americans, Asians, Africans and Europeans. Very safe, you don't need to worry about burglers, someone trying to rob you, never heard any incidents of rape whenever I'm there....
Why?
You have to respect culture, religion, and the strict laws.. otherwise there will be consequences

You've hit the nail on the head
The safest place i've been to
Partying is err ... brave, a stroll along the beach hand in hand is fine tho best not get noshed or more
Draconian consequences do something against how they do things & at best you'll be banged up for a good few months before the case makes it to court
As you mention respect & all will be fine

One of my fave places for both holidays & our fave sport
Wall-to-wall on the latter i reck the highest density of SPs & massage burds anywhere
Some absolute stunners & if you want to empty your wallet as well as the tanks there is [IMO] no place better
Safe as houses & some 

[daviemac]

You've hit the nail on the head
The safest place i've been to

Due to there not being much time between me posting and you posting I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, however the next person to take this thread off topic will be banned.

This thread is about the sad events in Southport, what happens in the rest of the world has nothing to do with it.

If you can't post on the thread topic then don't post.

[webpunter]

Due to there not being much time between me posting and you posting I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, however the next person to take this thread off topic will be banned.

I was in the process of writing the post
Doing a few other things at the same time
Started a good few mins before your post
Maybe 5 mins after @bm's post

It did cross my mind to mention what the connection was just after posting
Was going to do an edit & reference
Saw your crystal clear post & thought the better of it

Edit:  to confirm i didn't see your post until immediately after posting mine

Duly noted
& apologies for continuing along on an unconnected topic posted in the thread

[puntingking]

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Southport survivor have said she wanted to drive a cultural shift in which people swap their traditional pointed-tip blades with blunt-ended knives, which present a much lower risk of causing serious injury.

It makes sense to me to do away with pointed tip bladed knives unless there is a point in which we need pointed blades in the kitchen 

I  for one, cant seem to find any reason in which people cutting their vegetables or meats would need a pointed tip knife 


The only thing is, is that I would not want us to change and to bring things in of the back of sick/evil individuals otherwise there is a room of thinking where in that world then everything would be banned or restricted.

But I agree with the notion that doing away with pointed tip knives could be a good idea as it would even stop some accidents. 

Just my thoughts 

[Doc Holliday]

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Southport survivor have said she wanted to drive a cultural shift in which people swap their traditional pointed-tip blades with blunt-ended knives, which present a much lower risk of causing serious injury.

This thread may be of interest to you? 

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=410821.msg4131602#msg4131602

[timsussex]

This thread may be of interest to you? 

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=410821.msg4131602#msg4131602

and note how little support I got for a sensible idea which would only be a minor inconvenience to a few people

As I said at the time if Argos, Tesco, Sainsburys just stopped selling large pointed knives we could reduce the number in circulation by thousands each year

[puntingking]

and note how little support I got for a sensible idea which would only be a minor inconvenience to a few people

As I said at the time if Argos, Tesco, Sainsburys just stopped selling large pointed knives we could reduce the number in circulation by thousands each year

and then next year a criminal enters your house with a large pointed Knife he bought illegally but you can no longer protect yourself because a blunt tip knife is useless at giving the best chance of defending yourself from the criminal 

Only good and law abiding people suffer when you ban stuff, the bad people will still find ways to get any lethal weapon they need to do criminal activity.

[chrishornx]

and then next year a criminal enters your house with a large pointed Knife he bought illegally but you can no longer protect yourself because a blunt tip knife is useless at giving the best chance of defending yourself from the criminal 

Only good and law abiding people suffer when you ban stuff, the bad people will still find ways to get any lethal weapon they need to do criminal activity.

totally agree

reducing the number 'in circulation' by thousands sis pointless when there are probably 100 million plus pointe drives in circulation

[timsussex]

and then next year a criminal enters your house with a large pointed Knife he bought illegally but you can no longer protect yourself because a blunt tip knife is useless at giving the best chance of defending yourself from the criminal 

Only good and law abiding people suffer when you ban stuff, the bad people will still find ways to get any lethal weapon they need to do criminal activity.

Exactly the same argument used against gun control in USA - except of course you have a legal handgun and they turn up with an Uzzi

You can still protect yourself with a rounded end blade and anyway against an experienced criminal your chances really don't depend on the point of the weapon.

Perhaps we should teach knife fighting in schools ? - or at least offer free classes to anyone without a criminal record ?

[timsussex]

totally agree

reducing the number 'in circulation' by thousands sis pointless when there are probably 100 million plus pointe drives in circulation

Same argument used that we might as well legalise all drugs

Now you are welcome to your opinion but its of little value to me and you probably have a similar level of respect for mine but presumably even you would give more value to the consultant surgeons who would much rather stitch slashes to arms than pronounce innocent victims of deep stab wounds dead on arrival in hospital or shortly after

[Blackpool Rock]

and then next year a criminal enters your house with a large pointed Knife he bought illegally but you can no longer protect yourself because a blunt tip knife is useless at giving the best chance of defending yourself from the criminal 

Only good and law abiding people suffer when you ban stuff, the bad people will still find ways to get any lethal weapon they need to do criminal activity.

Isn't there some sort of statistic (I heard years ago) about someone carrying a knife is more likely to get stabbed 
So the criminal enters your house with a pointy knife but depending on what their motive is i'm thinking they are less likely to hurt you if you don't actually confront them whereas if you brandish a knife yourself then you make yourself a threat to them that needs to be dealt with 

The biggest weapons you have are your brain and your mouth, used in conjunction correctly they can help get you out of all sorts of trouble 

[daviemac]

Anybody remember this post?   

This thread is about the sad events in Southport, what happens in the rest of the world has nothing to do with it.

If you can't post on the thread topic then don't post.

There's a thread here - https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=410821.msg4131602#msg4131602 - about knife crime in general.

[timsussex]

to be fair DM, as pointed out above by PuntinKing, a survivor of this attack is advocating a change in knife design and surely her voice carries a lot of weight - well it does with me anyway !

She isnt some woke individual complaining about the use of the wrong pronoun - she has truly suffered beyond any of our experiences and has earnt the right for her views to be publicised and surely they are on topic

[daviemac]

to be fair DM, as pointed out above by PuntinKing, a survivor of this attack is advocating a change in knife design and surely her voice carries a lot of weight - well it does with me anyway !

She isnt some woke individual complaining about the use of the wrong pronoun - she has truly suffered beyond any of our experiences and has earnt the right for her views to be publicised and surely they are on topic

How many Americans with guns were involved in or affected this tragic incident, likewise what has the legality of drugs in this country got to do with it. 

Then there's the discussion about having a knife fight with a burglar, really? should we not be advocating that knives are never used on another person, does stabbing a burglar not bring you down to their low-life level and leave you open to a murder charge?

Yes the survivor has the right to voice an opinion regarding the design of knives but realistically it isn't going to change, knives of all shapes have a legitimate use and a knife of any shape can easily be made to have a point if someone is that way inclined. 

[PepeMAGA]

How many Americans with guns were involved in or affected this tragic incident, likewise what has the legality of drugs in this country got to do with it. 

Then there's the discussion about having a knife fight with a burglar, really? should we not be advocating that knives are never used on another person, does stabbing a burglar not bring you down to their low-life level and leave you open to a murder charge?

Yes the survivor has the right to voice an opinion regarding the design of knives but realistically it isn't going to change, knives of all shapes have a legitimate use and a knife of any shape can easily be made to have a point if someone is that way inclined.

Spot on and  if someone has the desire to act like he did in Southport, he'll find a way. Bearing in mind he had a history of beating a fellow pupil with a hockey stick ( should we ban hockey sticks as well)
He also made his own Ricin...as bad as the knife attack was it could have been even worse if he hadn't used the knife.
Rather than banning every possible iteration of a knife, they should look at why the police didn't act despite his own parents reporting him and why nothing happened after he had been reported to prevent 3 times.

[Blackpool Rock]

Just heard this on the news during the enquiry into this stabbing and i'm shocked at the actions of the taxi driver who dropped the stabber off

Basically he doesn't know that he has a knife but he follows him after he jumps out without paying, Axel then gets into the building and the taxi driver is obviously still in his car as the attack happens and hears all the commotion.
He then drives off after seeing a stream of small children running and screaming as they get out of the building but doesn't stop to try and help, instead he drives off and then picks up another fare where he engages in small talk like the weather and then belatedly he calls the police 50 minutes later, piece of fucking shit 

OK so I can get that self preservation may kick in but surely you would try to establish exactly what was happening and whether there was anything you could do that didn't endanger your own life 
Surely you would try to help some of these children and corral them somewhere into a safe place 
Surely as a minimum you would get straight on the phone to call the police 
Surely you wouldn't get the fuck out of there and immediately pick up another fare then chat shit about the weather etc as if nothing had just happened 

I'm thinking he's going to cop some shit for this, well sometimes you reap what you sow   

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[DastardlyDick]

As others have said, the problem with banning knives is that it would stop people who need knives for legitimate purposes - chef's are the obvious example - from carrying out their jobs. All banning does is drive it (whatever "it" may be) underground, and even less controllable. Look at firearms - we have among the strictest controls in the World, yet we still have shootings.

[puntingking]

As others have said, the problem with banning knives is that it would stop people who need knives for legitimate purposes - chef's are the obvious example - from carrying out their jobs. All banning does is drive it (whatever "it" may be) underground, and even less controllable. Look at firearms - we have among the strictest controls in the World, yet we still have shootings.

banning doesn't normally work, it just infringes on good peoples freedoms to use knives or guns for legitimate reasons such as for sports or cooking.

[timsussex]

As others have said, the problem with banning knives is that it would stop people who need knives for legitimate purposes - chef's are the obvious example - from carrying out their jobs.
All banning does is drive it (whatever "it" may be) underground, and even less controllable. Look at firearms - we have among the strictest controls in the World, yet we still have shootings.

Currently carrying a knife - or any other offensive weapon - in public is an offence unless you have a reason like a chef going to work although I doubt Gordon "effin" Ramsay carries his tools of the trade around.

[DastardlyDick]

Currently carrying a knife - or any other offensive weapon - in public is an offence unless you have a reason like a chef going to work although I doubt Gordon "effin" Ramsay carries his tools of the trade around.

tent
You might be surprised how many chefs take their knives home with them - you're looking at £130+ for a decent set, which is a big investment if you're not Gordon Ramsey.

[daviemac]

tent
you're looking at £130+ for a decent set,

You'd only get one really good chef's knife for that, a quality set would be £500+.


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[myothernameis]

Just heard this on the news during the enquiry into this stabbing and i'm shocked at the actions of the taxi driver who dropped the stabber off

The driver could easily panicked, and then froze in response, and not knowing what to do

[DastardlyDick]

You'd only get one really good chef's knife for that, a quality set would be £500+.


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Thank you - I rest my case 

[Blackpool Rock]

The driver could easily panicked, and then froze in response, and not knowing what to do

Well I wouldn't say that he froze as he drove off, oh yeah then he picked up another fare and chatted about the weather, doesn't sound like someone in a real tizz not knowing what to do 

[PepeMAGA]

Well I wouldn't say that he froze as he drove off, oh yeah then he picked up another fare and chatted about the weather, doesn't sound like someone in a real tizz not knowing what to do 

It put me in a rage reading that article to be honest. Just beyond me how he could react like that.
As a minimum you would call the police, but really your testosterone should surge and you wade in there.
Makes it's even worse when you hear about how I've of the little girls tried to stand in front of her friend to protect her.

[SoapyTW]

Didn't make any difference. Not the taxi drivers actions. People respond to situations differently. We have been programmed to not get involved. It's a societal problem, dont even point a finger at the taxi driver.

Focus should be 100% on the attacker. Don't dilute that

[Blackpool Rock]

Didn't make any difference. Not the taxi drivers actions. People respond to situations differently. We have been programmed to not get involved. It's a societal problem, dont even point a finger at the taxi driver.

Focus should be 100% on the attacker. Don't dilute that

Seriously mate I think you need to give your head a wobble if that's how you think 

It's a good job we have people in the emergency services that are prepared to deal with shit like this, imagine the police getting the call and every officer refusing to attend the incident as it sounded dangerous and it was up to the kids to sort it out for themselves 

[puntingking]

Didn't make any difference. Not the taxi drivers actions. People respond to situations differently. We have been programmed to not get involved. It's a societal problem, dont even point a finger at the taxi driver.

Focus should be 100% on the attacker. Don't dilute that

The attacker is to blame ofcourse. if the taxi driver did call 999 then it would make no difference as a lady who was in the building dialed the authorities at just 40 seconds during the attack.

That being said, that taxi driver is a knobhead for not calling them. 

[catweazle]

It's a good job we have people in the emergency services that are prepared to deal with shit like this, imagine the police getting the call and every officer refusing to attend the incident as it sounded dangerous

My ex was a paramedic. On several occasions they were called to a dangerous incident ( guns, machetes, whatever) and standard procedure was to stand off until the incident controller (senior police officer) said it was safe. In at least one incident a man  was found dead, and he may have survived had they been allowed in earlier. 

[scutty brown]

My ex was a paramedic. On several occasions they were called to a dangerous incident ( guns, machetes, whatever) and standard procedure was to stand off until the incident controller (senior police officer) said it was safe. In at least one incident a man  was found dead, and he may have survived had they been allowed in earlier.

that happened at the Manchester Arena bombing

[Blackpool Rock]

that happened at the Manchester Arena bombing

It happened in the London 7/7 bombings too but i've recently seen a documentary about that and there were firemen etc saying they decided to enter busses etc to treat injured people even though the bus hadn't been officially declared safe.

Anyway as I said before someone's personal safety is understandably their No.1 priority however this taxi driver as a minimum would surely have driven to the end of the road where he was safe around the corner and called the police
The fact that someone else had already called the police so it didn't slow the response is IMO irrelevant, the bloke acted like a cunt and now has to live with everyone knowing what he is

Also i'm not sure that I buy his version of events that he thought he heard gun shots, I think he's made that up to try and over play that he thought his life was in danger, so someone hears gun shots and their immediate reaction isn't to get to a safe place and immediately call the police 
It's Southport not South fucking Sudan 

[PepeMAGA]

Didn't make any difference. Not the taxi drivers actions. People respond to situations differently. We have been programmed to not get involved. It's a societal problem, dont even point a finger at the taxi driver.

Focus should be 100% on the attacker. Don't dilute that

That's a wild take.
Clearly the blame for the actual attack is with the worthless cunt that did it.
That isn't to say the taxi driver didn't act in the wrong way.
The Taxi driver could have made a difference even if it's just calling the police.
One of the girls died in hospital, I don't know the timeline, but maybe having the police there sooner could have saved her life. Also the taxi driver didn't know the extent of the attack, the cunt could have gone to another location afterwards and killed more people.
You say it's a societal problem, then let him off the hook. Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.

[puntingking]

That's a wild take.
Clearly the blame for the actual attack is with the worthless cunt that did it.
That isn't to say the taxi driver didn't act in the wrong way.
The Taxi driver could have made a difference even if it's just calling the police.
One of the girls died in hospital, I don't know the timeline, but maybe having the police there sooner could have saved her life. Also the taxi driver didn't know the extent of the attack, the cunt could have gone to another location afterwards and killed more people.
You say it's a societal problem, then let him off the hook. Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.

Just to note, a woman called the police 48 seconds during the attack, The taxi driver calling them would not change the timescale or it wouldn't have saved any lives lost.
That being said, he didn't know that at the time so any decent human being should call them when they are witnessing something as horrific as this.
He even called his friend who was working in a garrage next door to the building where the attack took place, disgraceful behaviour.

I don't think there should be a law to make people call the authorites when a crime is taking place, but they should still be called out and shamed. 

[PepeMAGA]

Just to note, a woman called the police 48 seconds during the attack, The taxi driver calling them would not change the timescale or it wouldn't have saved any lives lost.
That being said, he didn't know that at the time so any decent human being should call them when they are witnessing something as horrific as this.
He even called his friend who was working in a garrage next door to the building where the attack took place, disgraceful behaviour.

I don't think there should be a law to make people call the authorites when a crime is taking place, but they should still be called out and shamed. 

Yes exactly. He didn't know anyone had called.
Again minimal is making the call.
Besides why not follow him inside to reclaim the money he didn't pay for the fare.

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes exactly. He didn't know anyone had called.
Again minimal is making the call.
Besides why not follow him inside to reclaim the money he didn't pay for the fare.

There was camera footage of him following him out of the car to the building to get his money but I don't think that he followed him into the building, then once the shit kicked off inside he obviously legged it

[DastardlyDick]

I don't think there should be a law to make people call the authorites when a crime is taking place, but they should still be called out and shamed. 

There is an offence of "wasting police time" under s. 5(2) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 where  "a person causes wasteful employment of the police by making a false report of a crime, giving false information during an investigation, or causing apprehension for safety". It's very rarely used, the thinking being that they would rather send officers to have a look than allow a crime to be committed. Many police forces have a "triage" system in place to "grade" calls into (I)mmediate, (R)outine and (E)xtended.

[puntingking]

obviously legged it

So he legged it when he saw children being murdered, what an absolute coward of a man 

[Blackpool Rock]

So he legged it when he saw children being murdered, what an absolute coward of a man 

I don't know whether he actually saw them being murdered / attacked but he certainly heard a big commotion and claims he thought there were gunshots, panicked children then started running out of the building and indeed past his car at which point he drove off knowing full well something bad was happening to small children.

I can in theory accept him driving away to a place of safety as ultimately for many people your own self preservation is the No.1 priority but what I can't accept is him not immediately calling the police or once in a safe place raising the alarm somehow and then trying to protect the kids by getting them somewhere a bit safer

I know i've posted quite a few comments on it but this guy has just boiled my fucking piss 
As i've said before i'd expect him to cop some shit from the locals, I mean would you get in his taxi or tell him to FRO and wait for the next available one 
I can see someone half cut on a Saturday night punching the prick, that's if his cab is still in a drivable state and doesn't constantly get the tyres slashed etc, i'm not condoning illegal acts against him or his property but just look at the anger vented in the riots following this and IMO he needs to be constantly looking over his shoulder

Karma's a Bitch and i'm wondering if some local was to stab him whether anyone would call the police or an ambulance   

[Doc Holliday]

The actions of the taxi driver were the final failure in a long line of failures.

Indeed, in the fullness of time it will be shown that he was known to both Social Services and the Police (the latter not as a terrorist threat, but due to his mental health) and he will be another who the system has failed.
 

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[Blackpool Rock]

The actions of the taxi driver were the final failure in a long line of failures.


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Yeah a shocking event made even more shocking due to the sheer number of missed opportunities to do something about it 

[myothernameis]

On the news, the lawyer for the families, has said, if the persons that did nothing to stop, this lad, are not punished, then he will name them all.

[webpunter]

On the news, the lawyer for the families, has said, if the persons that did nothing to stop, this lad, are not punished, then he will name them all.

  to him
Name & shame
Nowt will happen to them
They'll cite stress & get paid time off work
Whereas they should be fired no easy route to leave / retire early