Author Topic: Russell Brand  (Read 23408 times)

Offline lillythesavage

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I don't have to pay for it either. I choose to.

Whatever happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty. Apparently a cornerstone of the justice system and so-called British values but seems to go out the window anytime a man is accused of rape.

Read your post again, you said " you have to pay for sex "  :crazy:.

Like many things in this country, our Police have suffered from lack of investment while cashing in Police stations, their failures to investigate sex crimes against women properly, ignore a lot of them, the only way to get justice is to get a press investigation and expose to the public
This goes for complaints against councils, other Govt offices, utility companies, just about everything, only things that are exposed to
 the public, get " the Lesson learned" phrase and some action, still not always the correct action and no lessons are learned. People simply are not listened to.

That is the way now, and this would not have been exposed without strong evidence, sometimes they get conned and get it wrong, then they pay for it, if they have got it wrong here, I am sure Brand will make them pay.

The fact Brand went on the defensive, online, before this was exposed, suggests to me, they have not got it wrong, you of course can make your own mind up.

How anyone thinks he would not get a fair trial, is beyond me, evidence has to be presented in court, a judge will dismiss inadmissible evidence, due process will be served.  :unknown:
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Offline David1970

The point is there are many men who commit crimes against women, however only the ones who speak up against the establishment are investigated, whereas other who support the establishment are protected.

Were Weinstein, R Kelly, Tyson, Cosby and Epstein all anti establishment?
Is this why the were convicted?
Remember Weinstein had a CBE

Online bigden40

It's quite simple. Rape is having sexual relations with someone who hasn't consented of their own free will.

It doesn't stop being rape after a certain period of time either.

I agree. 

One of the issues I have with the central rape claim here is that the Times own reporting seems to undermine it, although they bury the lede somewhat.

The complainant in question is a woman who was in a sexual relationship with Brand which continued after the event. The screenshotted messages between them, where he apologises, it looks rather like her concern was that he hadn’t worn a condom during an otherwise consensual encounter when that had been something they had agreed to do previously. 

Now, that’s clearly wrong behaviour but redefining it as rape is a stretch.

This just one example of why we should be careful about judging on the basis of this reporting. We’ve seen convincing media exposés unravel many times before. 


Online bigden40

Were Weinstein, R Kelly, Tyson, Cosby and Epstein all anti establishment?
Is this why the were convicted?
Remember Weinstein had a CBE

What an obtuse position. 

No one’s suggesting that you only get accused of rape for being anti-establishment. 

Naming 5 men convicted in a court of law is hardly a counterpoint.

Offline PumpDump

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I agree. 

One of the issues I have with the central rape claim here is that the Times own reporting seems to undermine it, although they bury the lede somewhat.

The complainant in question is a woman who was in a sexual relationship with Brand which continued after the event. The screenshotted messages between them, where he apologises, it looks rather like her concern was that he hadn’t worn a condom during an otherwise consensual encounter when that had been something they had agreed to do previously. 

Now, that’s clearly wrong behaviour but redefining it as rape is a stretch.

This just one example of why we should be careful about judging on the basis of this reporting. We’ve seen convincing media exposés unravel many times before.

We should be wait to hear the evidence of both the alleged victim and accused before coming to any conclusion. For the record I don't particularly like Russell Brand, I am not defending him (Daviemac take note), I am defending every person's right to a fair trial and presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I am venomously opposed to this culture of trial by media where somebody's good name can be destroyed even if they are innocent. The only place guilt should be determined is in a court of law.
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Online daviemac

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(Daviemac take note),
Who do you think you are to single me out in you ramblings.

Offline PepeMAGA


Offline PumpDump

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Who do you think you are to single me out in you ramblings.

You accused me (twice) of defending Brand in your previous posts.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 06:29:53 pm by PumpDump »
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Offline fastcar669

I’ve seen in the news that Russel Brand is accused of rape. It looks pretty convincing. I actually liked Brand, he’s pretty left wing but will take on the liberal left establishment and generally wins or at least makes some thought provoking sense. Is it me or does it all seem a bit odd that powerful anti establishment voices such as Brand, Tate and even Trump all end up accused of rape? I’ve no time for Tate but we was very outspoken and tbh I was sort of pleased to see the back of him. However it’s starting to look very odd when another high profile critic of the establishment is having his collar felt.


Maybe Brand, Trump and Tate are rapists ? It seems that all three seem to go down the conspiracy route just before being accused and then use the "establishment / slash main stream media are against me." Thats the other main stream media, not the one that giveds this lot a voice

Online Private Parts

P&D why don’t you sit down and think. This whole matter is becoming too personalised.
What is being lost is the principal we hopefully all aspire to, that is of reason.
I will long remember being sent to my bed to consider what I said ( rightly or wrongly)
It became clear the next morning.
Crystal clear.
Give the present state of affairs time to settle.

Then spout if you feel you have to

 :hi:

Online daviemac

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You accused me (twice) of defending Brand in your previous posts.
In my opinion you were, you were the one who said we should be sticking up for men, I say we should defend the rights of everyone not just men.


Offline RedKettle

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I was listening to an interview with one of the journalists and was amazed that they have been working on this story for about 4 years. Puts into context some of the comments above.

Does not mean he is guilty, which the journalist acknowledged, but it does mean that a lot of evidence has been collected, one hell of a lot of cross checking and verification done and lawyers have been all over it before they published.

Offline David1970

What an obtuse position. 

No one’s suggesting that you only get accused of rape for being anti-establishment. 

Naming 5 men convicted in a court of law is hardly a counterpoint.

I think someone did

The point is there are many men who commit crimes against women, however only the ones who speak up against the establishment are investigated, whereas other who support the establishment are protected.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 07:22:49 pm by David1970 »

Offline jackdaw

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I was listening to an interview with one of the journalists and was amazed that they have been working on this story for about 4 years. Puts into context some of the comments above.

Does not mean he is guilty, which the journalist acknowledged, but it does mean that a lot of evidence has been collected, one hell of a lot of cross checking and verification done and lawyers have been all over it before they published.

That’s interesting.

I suppose…given the level of damages that Brand might win if the accusations were groundless nobody should really be surprised that a lot of research underpins the stories. I guess since the grand old days of the News of the World, no paper is going out on a limb.

But still, that 4 years does surprise me.
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Offline RedKettle

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That’s interesting.

I suppose…given the level of damages that Brand might win if the accusations were groundless nobody should really be surprised that a lot of research underpins the stories. I guess since the grand old days of the News of the World, no paper is going out on a limb.

But still, that 4 years does surprise me.

I think people forget what serious investigative journalists do - tendency to think it is all like the Sun blasting out the Huw Edwards story or idiots on social media with their anti establishment conspiracies.

Offline kuck

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That post makes the fourth time you ask a pointed question demanding proof or examples from a poster in this thread, and you do so one more time after this post. Seems to me like you're spoiling for an argument, but you won't be getting one - at least not from me.

These are fresh allegations about Brand, and neither you nor I have the facts to hand. All we can do is watch how this plays out, presumably there will be a legal process, and I'm sure we are both hoping for a fair and unbiased trial in which fact is separated from fiction, and justice served.

I'm simply asking you to name some of these "inconvenient men" who have been silenced. If I have formed an incorrect  opinion about this issue, I don't want to be wrong for a moment longer than I need to be. Would be great if you could back up your claims with some evidence. If not, no worries.

Offline Adoniron

We should be wait to hear the evidence of both the alleged victim and accused before coming to any conclusion. For the record I don't particularly like Russell Brand, I am not defending him (Daviemac take note), I am defending every person's right to a fair trial and presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I am venomously opposed to this culture of trial by media where somebody's good name can be destroyed even if they are innocent. The only place guilt should be determined is in a court of law.

"The media has no power to try and/or convict. Rightly. But it has a responsibility to research, reveal and expose wrongdoing. Which it has in the Brand investigation". (Andrew Neil)

Online webpunter

The Met “getting interested” is overstating it, they’ve said exactly what they need to in the circumstances. 

My post was in response to reply #28 where @Adoniron commented
"He's not going to be prosecuted so if he is guilty (and I'm not saying he is) he's got away with it"
As things move on @ pace this is way off the mark
They [the Met] did & are doing what they needed / need to do, they need to wait for a person to come forward & make a complaint
Which is now in motion

The bbc aren't out of the woods
Whilst Brand was working for them a car [paid for by the bbc] is reported to have picked up one of the four complainants
Taken to Brand's house, picked her up from school [aged 16] 
He was 30 years old at the time, perfectly acceptable ?  :rolleyes: :dash:

One of my mates has a couple of daughters & when they were 16 [different ages] if some bloke aged 30 had done the same he would have gone round to his house & suggested to him that he didn't do the same again
My mate has a way of conveying things such that the message is crystal

Any normal bloke wouldn't even think of doing this in the 1st place
The optics dont appear good from whichever direction you are looking from
The same thought process doesn't occurr to Brand

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1st hand comments

2006 - pop star Dannii Minogue called Brand a "vile predator" while describing an appearance with him on his MTV chat show 1 Leicester Square

Katy Perry
In the Vogue interview from 2013, speaking about their former relationship, Perry said:
"I felt a lot of responsibility for it ending, but then I found out the real truth, which I can't necessarily disclose because I keep it locked in my safe for a rainy day."
KP is gonna come under pressure to unlock the safe, not much
I hope she hasn't lost the key / forgot the combination

Whether or not there is enough evidence to secure a conviction [single / multiple] we will find out
Whatever the outcome, there already has been too much 'noise' & it keeps getting louder
IMO he's a wrong un

I wonder how long before Brand's PR team [he might have to find a new one if they've dumped him] announce that he's suffering a mental breakdown suicidal blah blah & is seeking professional help
Get the violins out
He seemed alright maybe a week or so ago with an upcoming gig tour
How strange ?  :rolleyes:

Online cunningman

Totally agree with you. Never seen the appeal of this fellow but most modern "comics" are terrifyingly unfunny!

However most are not nutjob conspiracy theorists.
Why the BBC have him as 'YouTube guru' is beyond me.  Guru?  WTF?

Offline lillythesavage

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We should be wait to hear the evidence of both the alleged victim and accused before coming to any conclusion. For the record I don't particularly like Russell Brand, I am not defending him (Daviemac take note), I am defending every person's right to a fair trial and presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I am venomously opposed to this culture of trial by media where somebody's good name can be destroyed even if they are innocent. The only place guilt should be determined is in a court of law.

The only place guilt is decided is in a court of law, if they are not closed due to crumble concrete  :D.

Now you will say a Jury is tainted  :crazy:, not if there are 12 like you :D, they still have to sit through the evidence presented.

Get used to it, it is the way things get done in our great country, swimmers, etc have complained for years about illegal sewage dumping, while these water companies invest little but feed shareholders, probably including our wealthy politicians, got a few " Stars" onside, and all of a sudden things get exposed.

Others investigate, get the evidence, then Plod act and the BBC open a probe into what they already know.
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Online webpunter

Others investigate, get the evidence, then Plod act and the BBC open a probe into what they already know.

Not much
Tho they do need to first appoint the right chairperson to help steer things to the outcome which they want

Online timsussex

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If Brand has shagged half the women he claimed then he will need an extraordinary memory to be able to defend himself against an accusation from twenty years ago

Offline JontyR

I wonder how long before Brand's PR team [he might have to find a new one if they've dumped him] announce that he's suffering a mental breakdown suicidal blah blah & is seeking professional help
Get the violins out
He seemed alright maybe a week or so ago with an upcoming gig tour
How strange ?  :rolleyes:

I don't know much of Brand's work. But I did watch the documentary, his behaviour and presentation did seem (to my untrained eyes) to suggest he may be ADHD. In more layman's terms he did look like he may be slightly unhinged. As well as prone to addictive and compulsive behaviours and instincts. I can well imagine he may be in need of some psychiatric support. But so will those raising the allegations, whilst they may not have paid for the stories I do hope that C4 & ST are providing suitable pastoral support.

Has there been any word on whether this is the whole breadth of the work done by C4 and ST on this? When Byline Times did their work on Dan Wootton there were a couple of articles every week for a month or so. Is there a second episode coming up? 

Offline PumpDump

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"The media has no power to try and/or convict. Rightly. But it has a responsibility to research, reveal and expose wrongdoing. Which it has in the Brand investigation". (Andrew Neil)

This Andrew Neil?

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« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 12:14:47 am by PumpDump »
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Offline RedKettle

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This Andrew Neil?

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What is your point? Boris’ tart made allegations against him and he took legal action. Why is that relevant to Brand?

Offline BarnabyF

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Brand had well documented serious addiction issues with heroin and alcohol then went from those to an out of control sex addiction. Again well documented in his books. Shagger of the Year three years running, women literally queueing up at his gigs.

None of this excuses any criminal behaviour, and he should pay the price like anyone else if guilty of anything non consensual.

But he went through the 12 step recovery process and got himself clean. Does a lot of work for addiction charities. His behaviour changed too. Possible that his wife and daughters don’t recognise the man being portrayed in the press now.

But whether the British press and their readers have the ability to acknowledge sex addiction is a thing is another matter. Ain’t gonna happen.  Or that people are capable of changing themselves at all.

They just wanna rake up stuff from 20 years ago and cause maximum amount of carnage all round. What does that achieve? More newspaper sales for them. Ruined lives for others.

Wonder whether they want to scrutinise behaviour of rock stars and music industry over past 60 years the same way. They seem to get a free pass. Debauchery and depravity a scale far bigger than this. Underage sex, physical abuse, emotional abuse, non consensual sex and worse. And that’s just stuff we’ve read about in authorised biographies!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 06:32:47 am by BarnabyF »
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Offline jackdaw

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Wonder whether they want to scrutinise behaviour of rock stars and music industry over past 60 years the same way. They seem to get a free pass. Debauchery and depravity a scale far bigger than this. Underage sex, physical abuse, emotional abuse, non consensual sex and worse. And that’s just stuff we’ve read about in authorised biographies!

It’s more than a “free pass”, it’s widely admired in the press. Look at way Dave Bowie, for example is regarded.
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Offline BarnabyF

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It’s more than a “free pass”, it’s widely admired in the press. Look at way Dave Bowie, for example is regarded.

Yep and John Lennon. Used to give his missus a right good hiding. He gets an airport named after him! Double standards here
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Offline Jonestown

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Vanessa Feltz and Emily Maitlis have both bravely come forward to share there experiences with Brand, apparently they have both been in the same post code as him at one time or another, seems like women love a bad boy, right unto when they realise he really is a bad boy.

Offline RedKettle

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Yep and John Lennon. Used to give his missus a right good hiding. He gets an airport named after him! Double standards here

You cannot excuse criminal behaviour on the grounds that other people may have also done it and got away with it. Nobody would ever be convicted. I would certainly appeal my points for breaking the speed limit.

We are in a period of adjustment over what is acceptable behaviour with women by the famous and it will never be perfect with some historic crimes punished and others left alone. It is not a double standard but a really difficult area where the truth of what happened is very tricky to find.


Offline Jonestown

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Look at way Dave Bowie, for example is regarded.

Why, what is Bowie reputed to have been unto ?

Offline jackdaw

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Why, what is Bowie reputed to have been unto ?

It’s been fairly widely reported he had sex with 14/15 year old girls.
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Offline jackdaw

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You cannot excuse criminal behaviour on the grounds that other people may have also done it and got away with it. Nobody would ever be convicted. I would certainly appeal my points for breaking the speed limit.

We are in a period of adjustment over what is acceptable behaviour with women by the famous and it will never be perfect with some historic crimes punished and others left alone. It is not a double standard but a really difficult area where the truth of what happened is very tricky to find.

I don’t think Barnaby was excusing the behaviour…he was asking why different (and more lax) standards are being applied to major league pop stars compared to practically anybody else.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 08:25:56 am by jackdaw »
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Offline catweazle

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Being reported this morning that YouTube  have suspended his channel.

Offline jackdaw

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Being reported this morning that YouTube  have suspended his channel.

It’s slightly different to that (I think…not double checked), they have suspended advertising on it, so he will not get any remuneration, but Channel can still be viewed.
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Offline lillythesavage

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Brand had well documented serious addiction issues with heroin and alcohol then went from those to an out of control sex addiction. Again well documented in his books. Shagger of the Year three years running, women literally queueing up at his gigs.

None of this excuses any criminal behaviour, and he should pay the price like anyone else if guilty of anything non consensual.

But he went through the 12 step recovery process and got himself clean. Does a lot of work for addiction charities. His behaviour changed too. Possible that his wife and daughters don’t recognise the man being portrayed in the press now.

But whether the British press and their readers have the ability to acknowledge sex addiction is a thing is another matter. Ain’t gonna happen.  Or that people are capable of changing themselves at all.

They just wanna rake up stuff from 20 years ago and cause maximum amount of carnage all round. What does that achieve? More newspaper sales for them. Ruined lives for others.

Wonder whether they want to scrutinise behaviour of rock stars and music industry over past 60 years the same way. They seem to get a free pass. Debauchery and depravity a scale far bigger than this. Underage sex, physical abuse, emotional abuse, non consensual sex and worse. And that’s just stuff we’ve read about in authorised biographies!


My wife left accusing me of sex addiction, did not include 16 year olds, and addiction does not excuse this, if anything drug and drink addiction, along with sex addiction suggests a man out of control  :unknown:.

As for the other " Rock stars"  just because they write things does not mean they are true, none of them relied on TV or Radio, the way it is done today, to gain their fame, and there was not the " Tech" evidence that the internet and mobile phone use gives.

There might well have been wrongdoing, they may well have confessed their sins, without evidence or people coming forward, nothing will happen, Brand is from a different era, trying to live the rock star life, and brain dead to the scrutiny phones and the internet, as well as camera policing and a change in society.

We live in very different times.

Back in the 80,s, I worked for a TV company, and spent a fair bit of time with a very famous person now, close enough to be invited into his home, today he would not have got where he is, the scrutiny of a relationship he had, for so many reasons, would have destroyed him. It was not common knowledge for a good while, I knew.

I also knew it was genuine, I shared time and meals with them, four decades later they are still together, not so sure, under the scrutiny today, they would have not had a chance.

I do not agree with the press scrutiny famous people get today, though some use the press for gain, but in cases like this, where failure of the authorities to listen to the little people, not just the Police, in general, the reason the likes of Brand are given a soap box to shout from, it is the way society has gone.
The soap box Brand has used, could also be his undoing. Live by the sword  :D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 08:31:45 am by lillythesavage »
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Offline JontyR

Double standards here

No it isn't. Double Standards would be if a woman had been raped by 2 celebs and she pushed charges against one and not the other. Or battered by two and only named one.

What you describe is whataboutery.

Offline Jonestown

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It’s slightly different to that (I think…not double checked), they have suspended advertising on it, so he will not get any remuneration, but Channel can still be viewed.

So they have removed his means of making a living.
Even in the bad old days when HMRC stripped you bare to meet your debts they were required to leave you with the tools of your trade.

Offline lillythesavage

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So they have removed his means of making a living.
Even in the bad old days when HMRC stripped you bare to meet your debts they were required to leave you with the tools of your trade.

He makes money from his public soap box, through companies that have a responsibility to protect the public. He does not have any tools, except himself  :D
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Offline RedKettle

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So they have removed his means of making a living.
Even in the bad old days when HMRC stripped you bare to meet your debts they were required to leave you with the tools of your trade.

Most people in normal jobs would be suspended with allegations like this.

Online bigden40

No it isn't. Double Standards would be if a woman had been raped by 2 celebs and she pushed charges against one and not the other. Or battered by two and only named one.

What you describe is whataboutery.

Actually not. No women have pushed charges against any celebrity.

The “double standard” being suggested is about who the media pursue and why. 

Personally I think two things can be true at the same e.g. it can be a media hit job and the allegations can be true. 

Online bigden40

It’s slightly different to that (I think…not double checked), they have suspended advertising on it, so he will not get any remuneration, but Channel can still be viewed.

Demonetisation by social media companies is an interesting topic in its own right.  There’s clear evidence of this activity being applied more heavily against those who exhibit wrongthink.

Offline Blackpool Rock

Brand had well documented serious addiction issues with heroin and alcohol then went from those to an out of control sex addiction. Again well documented in his books. Shagger of the Year three years running, women literally queueing up at his gigs.

None of this excuses any criminal behaviour, and he should pay the price like anyone else if guilty of anything non consensual.

But he went through the 12 step recovery process and got himself clean. Does a lot of work for addiction charities. His behaviour changed too. Possible that his wife and daughters don’t recognise the man being portrayed in the press now.

But whether the British press and their readers have the ability to acknowledge sex addiction is a thing is another matter. Ain’t gonna happen.  Or that people are capable of changing themselves at all.

They just wanna rake up stuff from 20 years ago and cause maximum amount of carnage all round. What does that achieve? More newspaper sales for them. Ruined lives for others.

Wonder whether they want to scrutinise behaviour of rock stars and music industry over past 60 years the same way. They seem to get a free pass. Debauchery and depravity a scale far bigger than this. Underage sex, physical abuse, emotional abuse, non consensual sex and worse. And that’s just stuff we’ve read about in authorised biographies!
After Savile operation Yewtree did look at and expose many people including pop stars however it also relied on people coming forward at the time to report stuff.
IMO there will have been 1000's of people including pop stars who were looking back and shitting themselves however a lot will have also got away with various things but still have a niggling doubt that they may one day get a tap on the shoulder.
There were always going to be a few more cases exposed further down the line, probably not for a minor pop star who didn't step too far over the line too often but for the bigger fish to still get mopped up at a later date.

Think it was one of the Duran Duran members who in a documentary interview basically said after the show there would be a party and the people organising these things would normally bring fans back stage to mingle with and meet the group.
They never questioned it as the assumption (lazy / easy assumption  :unknown:) was that everyone had been vetted so they never questioned whether a girl was 18 and allowed to drink alcohol, by the time the Champers was flowing and the cocaine was up the nose then the lines were well and truly blurred and it's hard to discern an 18 YO from a 17 from a 16 from a 15 etc especially when fully dolled up.

He basically said it would have been rare for any band member to have gone to bed alone unless they chose to as these girls were basically throwing themselves at them so it could well be that some of them had unwittingly stepped over the line, seemed to me at the time that he was heading off any potential claims but i'm not aware of any being made against them either

I've always maintained that the men doing these things were wrong and should be held to account, I have a female relative who is about 10 years older than me and i'm quite surprised that she states "It was very much different times back then" and seems to accept that some of these things should be let go as it was "par for the course"
She also witnessed girls throwing themselves at a celebrity during a function and said she wasn't at all surprised when he was subsequently under the spotlight, he was in fact cleared I believe but this relative did see actions with girls who were under 16 that were clearly wrong
 

Offline Jonestown

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He makes money from his public soap box, through companies that have a responsibility to protect the public. He does not have any tools, except himself  :D

If their interest was in protecting the public they would remove the channel, not just keep any financial benefit to themselves.

Offline PumpDump

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In my opinion you were, you were the one who said we should be sticking up for men, I say we should defend the rights of everyone not just men.

Yes I agree, we should defend the rights of everyone. But it is men in particular who are under attack in this society. And this forum is representative of men. Any one of us are open to accusations in which, in this society, the woman without any evidence would be believed.
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Online Private Parts

Yes I agree, we should defend the rights of everyone. But it is men in particular who are under attack in this society. And this forum is representative of men. Any one of us are open to accusations in which, in this society, the woman without any evidence would be believed.
A very sweeping statement.
This forum is not representative of men.
Certainly not representative of the majority, be it male or female.
P&D you are spouting again
 :hi:


I certainly do not feel under attack
« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 11:20:20 am by Private Parts »

Offline PumpDump

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A very sweeping statement.
This forum is not representative of men.
Certainly not representative of the majority, be it male or female.
P&D you are spouting again
 :hi:


I certainly do not feel under attack

Go tell your employer you are a member of this forum and see how well it plays out  :D
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Offline CanOfRedBull

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A very sweeping statement.
This forum is not representative of men.
Certainly not representative of the majority, be it male or female.
P&D you are spouting again
 :hi:


I certainly do not feel under attack


This forum has 122,000 members which is more than the usual numbers of a BBC or Sky news poll,  so it is a good representation of men. 

Men are under attack, they have been for years.  The feminist movement talk about ‘toxic masculinity’ and try to take down the likes of Andrew Tate and try to push men to be more feminine and support the feminist movement.   PP,  you hide in this forum because if you were open you would be under attack for your views and your sexual expectations.
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Offline Munter84

I'm simply asking you to name some of these "inconvenient men" who have been silenced. If I have formed an incorrect  opinion about this issue, I don't want to be wrong for a moment longer than I need to be. Would be great if you could back up your claims with some evidence. If not, no worries.

If I didn't make it sufficiently clear in my previous post, my "dog in the fight" here is the alarming way that the burden of proof is being reduced, the public appetite for due process is waning in favour of trial by media, and how the mere act of accusation is becoming ever more synonymous with sentencing. Particularly in the context of our post-#metoo, post-Saville, post-Epstein collective societal guilt and slamming shut of stable doors, and what this means for accused men IN GENERAL and their ability to secure a fair trial.

Of course I'm in favour of crimes being punished, and the conviction rate creeping up to hopefully one day meet the rate of offending. But I'd like that parity to be reached through better methodology and tighter convictions, not just collaring the nearest easy target. I hope that's not a controversial statement. I also hope nobody is naive enough to think that the current politically charged climate hasn't been seized upon by certain bad actors who are using this public appetite for summary justice for their own ends; whether that be financial gain, personal vendettas, etc. This kind of gaming of the system ultimately undermines genuine victims of abuse, and for that reason I'm vehemently opposed to it.

What I really have no interest in, is going down the rabbit hole of specific cases and acting as an unpaid defence lawyer. If my unwillingness to be drawn on specifics invalidates (in your eyes) my overall position, then so be it. As you say, no worries.

Offline JontyR

Men are under attack, they have been for years.  The feminist movement talk about ‘toxic masculinity’ and try to take down the likes of Andrew Tate and try to push men to be more feminine and support the feminist movement.   
:wacko: