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Author Topic: The Dark Side - Prostitution and Mysogyny  (Read 4709 times)

Offline Matium

According to Rachel Moran, prostitution is tinged with mysogyny in that men do sexual acts (ie, facials) that they would never dare to do, or think to do with their wives, so that prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women.

True?

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Offline NIK

According to Rachel Moran, prostitution is tinged with mysogyny in that men do sexual acts (ie, facials) that they would never dare to do, or think to do with their wives, so that prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women.

True?

External Link/Members Only

Doubtless for some men.
But not for me.  :cool:

Toby

  • Guest
so that prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women.

True?

You could be forgiven for thinking that of a few posters on here, who I have the image of slavering over their keyboard as they hammer out their replies. I don't think it's true of me, so I assume it's not true of everyone who punts.

Offline Matium

It would be interesting to hear from the prostitutes on UKP if they think they are victims of mysogyny?

Or is mysogyny the price to be paid for earning £120 an hour?

a10

  • Guest
Having read her post, it strikes me as a woman who was a "good WG" and has since come to regret it. By writing tosh such as this, she's trying to absolve herself of blame.

If the "good punters" offended her so much, why take their money, why answer their phone calls and why advertise herself as a prostitute in the first place?  :dash:

Stealthshagger

  • Guest
I havent done anyhting on apunt I havent done in with civvies. I think women have sexual needs like men, and I dont judge them for it, and dont look down on it, I quite like it. In terms of civvies, I love a "dirty girl" and I am a dirty one myself. we are equal in it.  Punting is just paying for those physical acts. I dont know if others have different views, but thats how I see it.

I dont overthink punting. If she is advertising, willing and wants to be there and of her own free will as an adult, I dont think much more about it, just watching out for BS and B&S.

pokenn

  • Guest
I don't do anything with WGs that I have not done with civvie girlfriends.

I also have a lot of respect for WGs. They are just working women who have made a choice.

Sienna_Bronze

  • Guest
Sometimes I have had the feeling that some men dislike women/prostitutes, just by their attitude and lack of respect. But then again they could just be cunts to everyone

Stealthshagger

  • Guest
Sometimes I have had the feeling that some men dislike women/prostitutes, just by their attitude and lack of respect. But then again they could just be cunts to everyone

as punters we get the same feeling from escorts alot, too.

Jim Panzee

  • Guest
I like to indulge in certain Sexual acts because of the naughtiness factor not because of Rage. I find naughtiness to be a big turn on.

Offline socks

I read that piece a while ago and thought then, as I do now, that it's a pile of shit.

I do loads of things with WGs that I haven't done with girlfriends. I do them because girlfriends haven't wanted to and because I find them fun in the extreme. It must be lovely to live a delusion that all men are arsehole women haters, absolving yourself of any responsibility for the decisions you make, things you don't like, regrets you might have etc, in the process.

I'm a grown up making decisions about what I'd like to do with other grown ups, of our own free will, harming neither ourselves nor anyone else in the process. Bad people do bad things to vulnerable people, that's the problem, not prostitution.

Offline Boundless

According to Rachel Moran, prostitution is tinged with mysogyny in that men do sexual acts (ie, facials) that they would never dare to do, or think to do with their wives, so that prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women.

True?

External Link/Members Only

Well, turning the question around.

I have a regular fave of mine who I get on really well with and dare i say it, respect. She is up for a facial as an optional extra but I've found myself less inclined to do it over time, although I'd have no such reservations with some dirty EE slut.  Is this significant or am I just getting a bit fluffy in my old age?

Offline smiths

According to Rachel Moran, prostitution is tinged with mysogyny in that men do sexual acts (ie, facials) that they would never dare to do, or think to do with their wives, so that prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women.

True?

External Link/Members Only

It might be true of some men, its certainly not true of me. IMO what shouldnt be forgotten is some if not many WGs choose to be WGs for various reasons. As adults thats their responsibility and right to make their own decisions.

As a punter i ask for the sexual services a WG freely offers me in exchange for my money, i have NO interest or wish to take my rage out on them. I havent got any rage against women per se, though i despise those WGs who lie and cheat punters.

Offline JR

Sometimes I have had the feeling that some men dislike women/prostitutes, just by their attitude and lack of respect. But then again they could just be cunts to everyone
Agree, very likely they are cunts to everyone.
In my case I have done nothing with a wg I haven't done with a civvie, its just a damn sight easier finding those willing to do it if they list it on a website  ;)
I have no 'rage' against anyone, least of all someone sucking the cum  out of me

Offline CatBBW

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According to Rachel Moran, prostitution is tinged with mysogyny in that men do sexual acts (ie, facials) that they would never dare to do, or think to do with their wives, so that prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women.

True?

External Link/Members Only

Ugh. No. Not true.

Sure, there are mysogynists who punt, just as there as misandrists who whore. But to give a sweeping generalisation that "prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women" is bollocks.


Offline ampersand

I haven't got a wife ............ she objected to me cumming on her face.

Toby

  • Guest
Ugh. No. Not true.

Sure, there are mysogynists who punt, just as there as misandrists who whore. But to give a sweeping generalisation that "prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women" is bollocks.

It does serve the purpose of absolving her of any guilt that she feels for being a prostitue though.

Offline Matium

Ugh. No. Not true.

Sure, there are mysogynists who punt, just as there as misandrists who whore. But to give a sweeping generalisation that "prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women" is bollocks.

It's good to have your point of view as a WG because Rachel Moran claims she was a prostitute too and is now a campaigner against prostitution because she claims the experience of men's mysogyny brutalised her and continues to brutalise other women too.

Offline Steve2

Sometimes I have had the feeling that some men dislike women/prostitutes, just by their attitude and lack of respect. But then again they could just be cunts to everyone

Love it

 :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

domino131

  • Guest
It's nonsense.  She regrets doing it and she's projecting her own experience onto every other WG.  It's fine if she wants to express how it made her feel personally, but she's putting words in other people's mouths by extrapolating her experience to others.  Of course people will lap it up because it plays into what they already believe.

Anything I do with a WG is something I would do with a girlfriend as well.

I think people totally misread things like facials or CIM.  There's this assumption that it's some kind of degradation or power thing, but for me at least it's more of a turn on because it's an intimate thing to do.

Kimberly_C

  • Guest
How could you tell yourself – and believe it – that I was happy to have strangers’ fingers, penises and tongues shoved into the most private parts of me?

Well, maybe she was a very good actress? The fact is, there absolutely are women who like exactly that. Some women think sex with strangers is fun and interesting. Some of those women think making money doing that is just fucking great.

I didn’t want to be held by you. I didn’t want to be cuddled. I didn’t want you close to me, never mind inside me. Your arms around me made me want to puke more than your penis ever did.

Before I read the blog post, I assumed that this was written by a woman who regrets what she did, but this makes it sound like she actually hated it while she was doing it. Not all prostitutes feel this way. I have no idea what the percentages are.

How is a punter to know she hates it if she's smiling and purring and seeming to enjoy the post-punt banter? I guess he can't. But, isn't that true of any sexual encounter? If you meet a civvie and you take her home and she's all smiles, can you be held responsible if deep inside she hates herself and is only doing it because she thinks she has to pretend to like sex with you? (I assure you that such women exist.) Of course not. You think she's having a good time. Assuming she's not under the influence and you haven't tried to manipulate her or something, you can assume you have full consent. So of course you're not a rapist.

Yes there are punters who don't like women. Even if they're not overtly violent, I have sometimes seen it in their eyes. It's not very pleasant. But this blog post was directed to "the good punter." I think it's wrong.


Offline Matium

I suppose the crucial question is:

Did anyone here punt with Rachel Moran?

 :diablo:

Curious6705

  • Guest
Seems to me it's Rachel Moran who is expressing her inner rage at the opposite sex.

Stealthshagger

  • Guest
i cant claim it, but the feeling i get is she had some very bad experiences and saw all punters that way. am I the only one that got that impression?

Offline smiths

It's good to have your point of view as a WG because Rachel Moran claims she was a prostitute too and is now a campaigner against prostitution because she claims the experience of men's mysogyny brutalised her and continues to brutalise other women too.

Dr Brooke Magnanti aka Belle De Jour doesnt hold the same view of her time as a WG. As ever its one persons individual opinion, it in no way means even if true that other WGs experience the same.

caramelceleste

  • Guest
"Gentle rapist". Wow.
She obviously has reasons for the way she feels and I don't want to take away from her experiences, but this kind of skewed outlook is so detrimental to the industry, as she intends I guess.

Personally I disagree with her entirely, as someone who has fully thought through and chosen the path of getting paid for sex. The people I've met have not been aggressive or even particularly experimental. They chose to pay me for various reasons and at no time do I feel like a commodity, but I guess that's tied to the boundaries you set yourself and the people you are lucky (or unlucky) enough to meet.

She has some interesting arguments but they mostly ignore the existence of male sex workers and free will in women! If women can choose to marry for money, get paid for their looks as models  or get paid to have sex on camera... why can't they legitimately choose to be prostitutes? Pretty sure trafficking exists in all of those areas too, and we know prostitution trafficking figures are often grossly inflated.

Offline wristjob

According to Rachel Moran, prostitution is tinged with mysogyny in that men do sexual acts (ie, facials) that they would never dare to do, or think to do with their wives, so that prostitution becomes an expression of men's inner rage against women.

True?

External Link/Members Only

She should try being married to a woman, that's the birthplace of mysogyny.

Anyway "tinged with" - how soft a society are we? Driving is caused with causing people to die, eating MacDonalds is tinged with making people fat. Video games - you get the picture. Is it a problem in practise or is it not?

Barry Shipton

  • Guest
But this blog post was directed to "the good punter." I think it's wrong.

Well I am one of the "good punters" she is addressing - yes I like sex, and yes I like women, otherwise I wouldn't do this! But no that doesn't make me a 'rapist' as she claims.

She takes an extreme feminist perspective that even many feminists don't agree with - that escorts are victims and 'survivors' of prostitution. I think many I know would find that view patronising and insulting in the extreme.

She was forced into prostitution at 15, abused and pimped - an absolutely appalling situation anyone on here would condemn, and no doubt report to the police if they encountered it. Therefore in her view all men are criminals and all women need to be 'rescued'.

If the same had happened to me and I would be bloody mad, bitter, angry and no doubt campaign against it as she does. But I honestly don't think her situation is typical in the Western world, and if I felt any woman I had seen was in this position I can honestly say I would never punt again.

jcdmj12

  • Guest
Rachel Moran is apparently of dubious provenance:

External Link/Members Only

As for the OP. No, I get pissed off with WGs who try to rip me off, but that's the same with any service provider.  The good ones (actually, 90% of the ones I've met) I have feelings of goodwill and affection towards.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 04:09:16 pm by jcdmj12 »

Sienna_Bronze

  • Guest
One extreme feminist view is that all piv sex (penis in vagina) is rape. This is on the basis that society has made piv sex the norm and therefore women aren't able to make an informed decision. They basically say that women are forced into this type of sex which equals rape. It sounds very much like she is of the same group of women.

If she had a shit time of it fair enough, she should campaign for better strategies and support for trafficked and abused women. She shouldn't assume all women are like her and have had the same experiences.

Offline Matium

Without piv sex (penis in vagina), there'd be no babies and no life.

The Feminists are loonies.

Barry Shipton

  • Guest
Rachel Moran is apparently of dubious provenance:

External Link/Members Only

Very useful link - I was taking her story at face value but was aware doubts had been cast - most people blindly believe something because it is in a book, unaware that there is even less fact checking than a story in The Sun, and that can of course be total bollocks.

Also knew the author was a mouthpiece for Ruhama an organisation which 'saves prostitutes' which as that blog highlights - and they admit it on their own website - was set up by two Roman Catholic orders of nuns.

Organised religion has done more to oppress women and suppress ordinary people's sexuality - telling us how we should live our lives, while behind the scenes the leaders happily go off and abuse kids and mess up other peoples' lives. The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland in particular should hang it's head in shame - they have perpetuated and encouraged abuse, because facts show those who are abused usually go on to become perpetrators.

And they have the two faced cheek to get one of their mouthpieces with a possibly fabricated back story to tell me I am an abusing rapist! Religious bigots forget that their religion is to tell them how to live their lives - not to tell me how to live mine!
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 04:52:31 pm by Barry Shipton »

Offline jackdaw

Without piv sex (penis in vagina), there'd be no babies and no life.

The Feminists are loonies.

Maybe vap is acceptable? (Vagina around penis.)

Toby

  • Guest
Maybe vap is acceptable? (Vagina around penis.)

Maybe they just prefer it up the arse instead.

Offline Frenchie

Sometimes I have had the feeling that some men dislike women/prostitutes, just by their attitude and lack of respect. But then again they could just be cunts to everyone

I've thought this on a number of occasions.....but have never commented as 1. I didn't want to get into a row ..and 2. didn't think it would make any difference to the other persons attitude towards WG's (even that term sparked a debate a few months ago ! )

I like splashing my spunk across a girls face/mouth because it turns me on ....nothing to do with abuse or a power trip .

There is no doubt that some forum members seem to have a 'downer' on WG's - just because of the fact that they are ......

I think you may of summed it up with your last sentence .

Offline Frenchie

as punters we get the same feeling from escorts alot, too.

Then you're seeing the wrong girls and not doing enough research !

Offline CatBBW

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It's good to have your point of view as a WG because Rachel Moran claims she was a prostitute too and is now a campaigner against prostitution because she claims the experience of men's mysogyny brutalised her and continues to brutalise other women too.

Yep. I can honestly say that I do NOT feel brutalised, nor do I feel exploited, or a victim, or any other negative word she/others chooses to ascribe to sex workers. I do this job willingly, and with a little giggle in my soul, knowing that I am in a "naughty" (aka: morally reprehensible) job. I get paid for getting my tits out on cam, talking dirty on the phone, or sucking cock in a travelodge, and that to me is fucking hilarious.


Stealthshagger

  • Guest
Then you're seeing the wrong girls and not doing enough research !
well, I mean the ones that are trying to make you come fast and leave, or fake enjoys lists etc. taking you for a fool and the like, and time wasting

hotbethany25

  • Guest
I don't like this article. I get the feeling she is just trying to make people feel as bad as she does. Obviously she regrets what she done but I very much doubt her anger and feelings towards men are just from working. Something more has gone on in her life spart from the fact she used to sell her body, I am sure.

The majority of punters are the 'good ones' she is referring to. . But I have never seen any of them in the way she describes! People visit WG's for loads of reasons and hating women does not strike me as one of them.. of course, there are the odd few who can be downright disrespectful and try to take the piss. As I write this, a couple spring to mind. In contrast, as I think about the good punters, I can think of more of them!

I hope no good guy on here reads her article and feels bad... her view is not common, im my opinion anyway x

Offline mattylondon

Sometimes I have had the feeling that some men dislike women/prostitutes, just by their attitude and lack of respect. But then again they could just be cunts to everyone
Perhaps you're right. If people are going to be rude, when purchasing a service, it's far more likely to apply across the board with them.

I certainly have the distinct feeling that many prossies Ive booked despise and resent men. And that's based on what's been related to me through many post punt chats. And there's a word for that too, as has been mentioned earlier... a misandrist.  :hi:

But the assumption either way is far too general and I can't take it seriously. Just some old bag spouting bollocks to get attention.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 05:29:25 pm by mattylondon »

domino131

  • Guest
I've just realised who she is; she was on the Rupert Everett documentary earlier this year.  I couldn't really take her seriously as she didn't seem to be able to back up her points and when Rupert made a bit of a Devil's Advocate point she played the 'I'm offended by that' card.  Seemed really out of her depth next to two other women who actually knew what they were talking about.

Offline Dani

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I am sure there are many men who are like this be they punters or not.  People don't change personalities just because they punt.  They either resent or hate women or they don't.
However I don't put myself in a position for something like this to happen as I don't do anything I feel is degrading.
perhaps this woman who was a street worker put herself in positions where she did feel degraded but that was her choice to do so.

I may be confused but is this not also the woman who other prossies have come out and said never actually worked the streets in the area she said she did in the years she said she did or is that someone else.  I am fairly sure it is her and other girls who worked those streets in those years have debunked her stories as they all knew each other and none of them had ever set eyes on her.  If it is the same woman she seems to have invented a past to back up her hatred towards men and deems herself able to speak for every prossie out there which really gets my goat and fucks me off and I had better stop there before I start ranting about the stupid cow and swearing like a docker

Offline Matium

I may be confused but is this not also the woman who other prossies have come out and said never actually worked the streets in the area she said she did in the years she said she did or is that someone else.  I am fairly sure it is her and other girls who worked those streets in those years have debunked her stories as they all knew each other and none of them had ever set eyes on her. 

Yes, that's Rachel Moran

Maggie McNeill is a prostitute who worked the streets that Rachel Moran claimed she worked and yet neither Maggie nor any other street walker - and they all know each other and keep an eye out for each other - can remember her.

Rachel Moran, to put it politely, has a fertile imagination.

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jcdmj12

  • Guest
I am sure there are many men who are like this be they punters or not.  People don't change personalities just because they punt.  They either resent or hate women or they don't.
However I don't put myself in a position for something like this to happen as I don't do anything I feel is degrading.
perhaps this woman who was a street worker put herself in positions where she did feel degraded but that was her choice to do so.

I may be confused but is this not also the woman who other prossies have come out and said never actually worked the streets in the area she said she did in the years she said she did or is that someone else.  I am fairly sure it is her and other girls who worked those streets in those years have debunked her stories as they all knew each other and none of them had ever set eyes on her.  If it is the same woman she seems to have invented a past to back up her hatred towards men and deems herself able to speak for every prossie out there which really gets my goat and fucks me off and I had better stop there before I start ranting about the stupid cow and swearing like a docker

The feminazis want to liberate you from the evils of patriarchy, so that you can live your life as they think you should. Don't you feel liberated yet?    :wackogirl:

jcdmj12

  • Guest
I did a lot of reading around this a few months back, and came the conclusion these people are like Vegans.  They are totally convinced of the moral rectitude of their cause, and don't really give a shit about evidence which contradicts their position. 

vt

  • Guest
Yes, that's Rachel Moran

Maggie McNeill is a prostitute who worked the streets that Rachel Moran claimed she worked and yet neither Maggie nor any other street walker - and they all know each other and keep an eye out for each other - can remember her.

Rachel Moran, to put it politely, has a fertile imagination.

External Link/Members Only

It's quite telling that the prohibitionists can't produce any real 'victims' of Prostitution that they have to fabricate these fake life stories in a bid to back up their fallacious claims.

domino131

  • Guest
I did a lot of reading around this a few months back, and came the conclusion these people are like Vegans.  They are totally convinced of the moral rectitude of their cause, and don't really give a shit about evidence which contradicts their position.

I spoke to a girl who worked at a strip club (not sure if she did anything more than stripping), and she said how there used to be groups of protesters claiming to be campaigning for women's rights and all that stuff.  Not one of them ever actually came and spoke to the girls who worked at the club, which you'd have thought they'd have done if they were genuinely concerned for their welfare or really wanted to know the truth about the work.  If anyone tried to claim to them that they were perfectly fine about being a girl working in a strip club, they'd just say it was a case of Stockholm syndrome or something.

Offline mattylondon

It's quite telling that the prohibitionists can't produce any real 'victims' of Prostitution that they have to fabricate these fake life stories in a bid to back up their fallacious claims.
It's also quite telling that most of them tend to be ugly, washed up old hags too, with selective memories.

Probably bitter that the money is better these days and that they don't have a lot to show for their time in the business.


Offline Dani

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It's quite telling that the prohibitionists can't produce any real 'victims' of Prostitution that they have to fabricate these fake life stories in a bid to back up their fallacious claims.

If they do find victims or as they are called  now survivors it is always street workers who used drugs.  Its never someone who worked from a nice safe apartment or house and who did it because for them it was a good financial option.  I am sure there are quite a few prossies who had to work in this industry due to drug use and probably a pimp but nowhere near the numbers they portray. 
However having a normal woman aged between say 23-40 who made an informed decision to do this work because they felt quite happy to suck anyones cock for cash or they could easily have sex with someone they are not attracted to for a very good financial reward is not going to be a headline grabber nor will it fit their agenda.
Apparently I am too traumatized to speak my mind or even to have a valid opinion in these womens eyes as I have been brain washed by men to sell myself and undermine my own values as I must have been abused at some point in my life as a normal healthy minded, opinionated and outspoken woman could not possibly make a choice to do this type of work.

What they don't realise is they are undermining all women with this attitude as they are basically saying women are not capable of making choices about their own bodies.  They are basically saying men can control what we do whenever they choose.  These Feminazis need to look at what they actually say before opening their bloody big mouths.  The only people undermining prostitutes and treating us as second class citizens is them.  They are the oens saying we are not capable of having choice or independent thought. 

They also do not realise that when meeting a client we, the prossies have full control of the booking.  We decide what we will or will not allow to happen to our bodies during that time.  Clients don't pay and then get to do whatever they want to us.  They get to do whatever we have decided we want to do.  Its why we have a likes list so we can inform clients of what they can and cannot expect from us. 
I worked for years as a Midwife, I got more abuse then than I ever have as  prossie, during my training before deciding to not do general nursing and become a midwife I had to work at an A&E in Southampton and I got hit and bitten an dpunched and kicked and spat quite often.  It is much worse than being a prossie yet we don't see the feminazis calling and shouting that these poor nurses are being abused every night of the week by drunks and druggies.  I would sooner see 1000 clients than have to spend a weekend working in A&E as a nurse.  Prossying is much safer as clients come to us expecting a good time so they are normally very happy to see us.
Its the non punters that act like idiots, the ones who think they can come and rob us, they are not punters they are thieves and would steal off anyone they thought they could.  It has nothing to do with the work just that they hope we keep money on the premisies.

Offline Denhamhoop

Well i know there are punters who dont particularily like women same as in all walks of life.Virtually every WG will have met someone like this but thankfully like everything else they are few and far between.There are also women who dont like men who happen to be WG i think i have met maybe a couple of WG's like this but by and large most i meet seem to enjoy mens company.The woman i met today is either an Oscar winning actress or enjoys meeting men and sex and the money is a big bonus.I know i adore women and probably am too nice sometimes for my own good both in punting and general.The fact is i enjoy cum in mouth because its so sensual and intimate for me and have done the same in relationships so not just punting.I also enjoy a woman who cums over my face does that mean that shes a female misagonist and wants to dominate me .God knows all i know is i enjoy that as well and any woman is more than welcome to do this to me.Only we know exactly what we think and sometimes even we cannot explain why we like certain things sexually we just do