The origin of the virus

[King Nuts]

External Link/Members Only

This is worth a look. Goes on a bit with lots of technical and scientific stuff but it's the detail that's been missing from most news reports, and it's only by putting the origin of this thing in context that we can understand how it all came about.

Conclusion: the Chinese Communist Party has done everything in their not-inconsiderable power to obfuscate any outside investigation and research and to thwart anyone who challenges their official line.

Oh, and if the usual suspects on here want to bleat 'conspiracy theory' at me, I'm not interested. Y'all can go and do one.

[David1970]

This video is produced by a front organisation for the Falun Gong religious sect, they make the Moonies look normal.



The Epoch Times
Epochtimescover.png
Front page of The Epoch Times New York edition for March 18, 2016
Type   International newspaper
Format   Broadsheet
Owner(s)   Epoch Media Group
Founder(s)   John Tang
Publisher   Epoch Media Group
Founded   May 20, 2000; 19 years ago
Political alignment   Conservatism, anti-communism, anti-Socialism, Anti-Chinese sentiment, Right-wing populism
Language   Multiple, mainly Chinese and English
Headquarters   New York City, New York, U.S.
Circulation   1,314,375 (2012, unaudited)[1]
Website   External Link/Members Only
The Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper[2] founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement.[3] Though the newspaper is known for general interest topics with a focus on news about China and its human rights issues, it has become known for its support of U.S. President Donald Trump and favorable coverage of far-right politicians in Europe; a 2019 report showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] The newspaper is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty Television (NTD).[7] The group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda.[7][12][13]

[Doc Holliday]

This is worth a look. Goes on a bit with lots of technical and scientific stuff but it's the detail that's been missing from most news reports ..

That simply isn't true.

[King Nuts]

This video is produced by a front organisation for the Falun Gong religious sect, they make the Moonies look normal.

Might have known you'd be first up with some sort of banal and pointless response.

Anyway, so they're anti Commie and pro Trump. So what?

[David1970]

Might have known you'd be first up with some sort of banal and pointless response.

Anyway, so they're anti Commie and pro Trump. So what?

Yes they are but they are also a mad religious sect which you believe are a reliable news source

[King Nuts]

Yes they are but they are also a mad religious sect which you believe are a reliable news source

I am as cynical and sceptical of ALL news sources as anyone else.

I go out of my way to read things I don't necessarily agree with, because I want to make my own mind up about stuff. I don't want to stick to what are 'approved' media outlets.

My grandad, a lifelong Communist, used to read the Daily Telegraph every day. He said it kept him sharp, because he disagreed with most of the political stuff in it.

Anyway, your obession with me isn't healthy and it has to stop. Go and find someone else to follow around.

[David1970]

I am as cynical and sceptical of ALL news sources as anyone else.

So why are you promoting fake news form the Falun Gong religious sect?

[winkywanky]

I got 5mins into the video before it seemed overwhelmingly like a stitch-up job and I turned off.

The other thing to consider is the people making it have an agenda, which is to discredit and destroy the Chinese Communist Party. I don't like to listen to or watch stuff which is made with an agenda, even if it isn't full of lies it will contain strong slant.

Finally, whatever Falun Gong 'know', the CIA will know twice as much, so therefore Donald Trump would do too. He'd be spilling the beans out all over the place by now, and so far all it's been is handbags at dawn. Unless of course, he has a cunning plan to keep schtum about it and get his own back in other ways, to keep China in-check, lest he tell the world what they did.

But Trump being that cunning seems just about as unlikely as the video  .

[mh]

Unless of course, he has a cunning plan to keep schtum about it and get his own back in other ways, to keep China in-check, lest he tell the world what they did.

You mean as if he had a pee pee tape of them in a Moscow hotel with two hookers? Cunning. 

[winkywanky]

Perhaps a video of Xi Jinping in a Thai Rub & Tug place, with the whole Wet Market thing going on with two cute little Thai hotties    .

[king tarzan]

Donald Trump called out the origins.. and yes IMHO he is correct.. sadly nowadays truth is offensive...

[winkywanky]

Donald Trump called out the origins.. and yes IMHO he is correct.. sadly nowadays truth is offensive...

You're missing the point KT, the whole conspiracy thing is a lot bigger than just calling it the Chinese Virus because it originated there.

[king tarzan]

You're missing the point KT, the whole conspiracy thing is a lot bigger than just calling it the Chinese Virus because it originated there.

I understand what your saying, but keeping it simplified without the ingredients of complications i truly believe Mr Trump..

[David1970]

Donald Trump called out the origins.. and yes IMHO he is correct.. sadly nowadays truth is offensive...

Even President Trump stopped calling Cov19 “The Chinese Virus” weeks ago.

[King Nuts]

I got 5mins into the video before it seemed overwhelmingly like a stitch-up job and I turned off.

The other thing to consider is the people making it have an agenda, which is to discredit and destroy the Chinese Communist Party. I don't like to listen to or watch stuff which is made with an agenda, even if it isn't full of lies it will contain strong slant.

If you don't like to listen to or watch stuff that comes with an agenda, you're not left with a huge amount.

THe CCP, to my mind, are a bunch of gangsters. They operate a full surveillance state in China, and they clearly have been less than frank about the virus, the numbers, and the way it's been handled.

[winkywanky]

If you don't like to listen to or watch stuff that comes with an agenda, you're not left with a huge amount.

THe CCP, to my mind, are a bunch of gangsters. They operate a full surveillance state in China, and they clearly have been less than frank about the virus, the numbers, and the way it's been handled.

I think that's a given.

But then pile a load of other stuff on top...?

That's how conspiracy theories work, you put believable (or even true) stuff in there, and then add all the other stuff you want people to believe.

[King Nuts]

I think that's a given.

But then pile a load of other stuff on top...?

That's how conspiracy theories work, you put believable (or even true) stuff in there, and then add all the other stuff you want people to believe.

Hmm. I would take issue with the term 'conspiracy theory'. It's only ever used by people who look down their noses at a supposedly less intellectually rigorous argument or position on any given subject that someone else has, and that veers away from accepted, mainstream, or polite thinking.

The term can be added to other terms like 'politically correct', 'fascist', 'racist' and the like, where their over-use has rendered them pretty much meaningless.

Which is why history is so relevant. Think of all the major events of the 20th century, and compare how they were thought of at the time and how they are thought of now. WW1 and WW2. The Depression. Stalin's reign. Mao's reign. Pearl Harbour. Hiroshima. Gulf War 1, and so on. Our understanding of such events has been hugely improved by looking at their outcomes, some of whch have taken decades to materialise.

[bhudda]

Anyway, your obession with me isn't healthy and it has to stop. Go and find someone else to follow around.

You keep starting threads full of complete nonsense and then complain when people point out they are complete nonsense! Is that healthy?

If you dont want the more sensible people here to respond to your foolishness then dont post it.

Are you locked down with stapler by any chance?

[David1970]

Are you locked down with stapler by any chance?

 

[winkywanky]

Hmm. I would take issue with the term 'conspiracy theory'. It's only ever used by people who look down their noses at a supposedly less intellectually rigorous argument or position on any given subject that someone else has, and that veers away from accepted, mainstream, or polite thinking.

The term can be added to other terms like 'politically correct', 'fascist', 'racist' and the like, where their over-use has rendered them pretty much meaningless.

Which is why history is so relevant. Think of all the major events of the 20th century, and compare how they were thought of at the time and how they are thought of now. WW1 and WW2. The Depression. Stalin's reign. Mao's reign. Pearl Harbour. Hiroshima. Gulf War 1, and so on. Our understanding of such events has been hugely improved by looking at their outcomes, some of whch have taken decades to materialise.

You might consider using the term Conspiracy Theory is lazy. Although I did state why I thought it was bollocks.

The film is made by a group with a clear agenda.

And if it were true, why hasn't Trump seized on it? If he even thought there was a sniff of truth in it, he'd be all over it like a rash.

Two questions to be answered.

[King Nuts]

You keep starting threads full of complete nonsense and then complain when people point out they are complete nonsense! Is that healthy?

If you dont want the more sensible people here to respond to your foolishness then dont post it.

Are you locked down with stapler by any chance?

You're another one that doesn't actually add anythng positive or useful to these threads.

If my threads are 'full of nonsense' how come so many people have piled in? Why don't you start your own, and ignore mine?

And if by 'sensible', you mean people who take the BBC/Sky News etc seriously, and think everything else is bollocks, then no, I am not that interested.

[King Nuts]

You might consider using the term Conspiracy Theory is lazy. Although I did state why I thought it was bollocks.

The film is made by a group with a clear agenda.

And if it were true, why hasn't Trump seized on it? If he even thought there was a sniff of truth in it, he'd be all over it like a rash.

Two questions to be answered.

So they have a clear agenda. So what? They're anti-communist, anti-CCP, and pro Trump. Sounds OK to me.

Name me a media outlet that has no agenda.

As regards Trump 'seizing on the truth', if you'd actually watched that documentary from beginning to end, there's no finite, sound-bite-sized version of the truth where this virus is concerned. Its origins are complex. Measuring and evaluating its effect is very much a work in progress. People are learning more and more about it every day.

Very easy to watch 3 minutes of something and sit back and say 'that's bollocks' because someone says something you don't like or agree with, or that seems controversial.

[badsin]

So they have a clear agenda. So what? They're anti-communist, anti-CCP, and pro Trump. Sounds OK to me.

Every reasonable person on the planet should be anti-CCP, biggest murderer's of the 20th century

[David1970]

You're another one that doesn't actually add anythng positive or useful to these threads.

If my threads are 'full of nonsense' how come so many people have piled in? Why don't you start your own, and ignore mine?

I think members are justified to point out that you are promoting Falun Gong religious set propaganda.
You think members should ignore and not challenge the Falun Gong religious sects propaganda you promote, you are wrong.

[King Nuts]

I think members are justified to point out that you are promoting Falun Gong religious set propaganda.
You think members should ignore and not challenge the Falun Gong religious sects propaganda you promote, you are wrong.

Let me spell something out in simple words:

Just because I post a link to something, it doesn't mean I am PROMOTING it. I link stuff because I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about the subject at hand. I don't always agree with what I am linking, but I am interested in points of view that challenge the mainstream or otherwise standard point of view of things.

If you don't want to add to the debate, and just come up with low-grade abuse, that's your call. But I wonder why you bother.

There's all manner of threads on here I have no interest in, so you know what I do? I don't go there. I don't join in like some petulant adolescent and shout 'twat' at people.

In your case, being first out of the traps with a cut'n'paste bit of copy from somewhere as a response, isn't a debate. It's you just being contrary and seemingly unable to form opinions of your own.

Your call again, of course. Free country, an' all. (Well, it wouldn't be if certain people got their way.)

[winkywanky]

So they have a clear agenda. So what? They're anti-communist, anti-CCP, and pro Trump. Sounds OK to me.

Name me a media outlet that has no agenda.

As regards Trump 'seizing on the truth', if you'd actually watched that documentary from beginning to end, there's no finite, sound-bite-sized version of the truth where this virus is concerned. Its origins are complex. Measuring and evaluating its effect is very much a work in progress. People are learning more and more about it every day.

Very easy to watch 3 minutes of something and sit back and say 'that's bollocks' because someone says something you don't like or agree with, or that seems controversial.

None of that means he wouldn't grab a chance to use it, it's so 'out there' that not even Trump would try to use it.

The other part of their agenda is that they're a quasi-religious group, that's an instant turn-off.

[David1970]

Let me spell something out in simple words:

Just because I post a link to something, it doesn't mean I am PROMOTING it.

Your opening words in this thread are “This is worth a look”, to me that is promoting the Falun Gong religious sect propaganda
There is to much fake news about this pandemic without you promoting.

[Doc Holliday]

 if you'd actually watched that documentary from beginning to end, there's no finite, sound-bite-sized version of the truth where this virus is concerned. Its origins are complex. Measuring and evaluating its effect is very much a work in progress. People are learning more and more about it every day.

That's true and I am currently about half way through watching it. From a scientific standpoint you cannot ignore who is funding a piece of research or in this case an investigative documentary. It is bound to be biased just as with other media as you point out. Seeking truly independent science is a gold standard and often something of a holy grail. In this case the agenda is very much anti China .. who nobody trusts anyway.

What I would say (up to where I have watched) is they perhaps could have found a better front woman than Judy Mikovits. Her name rang a bell and on checking it was in connection with chronic fatigue syndrome which I have studied a lot.

This poor woman has had a somewhat chequered career when circa 2010 her work on CFS being virus related was discredited and a long legal battle ensued. She kind of lost her way and since around 2018 she has become well known amongst the conspiracy circle fraternity.

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

I will watch the remainder later and comment further

[petermisc]

In your case, being first out of the traps with a cut'n'paste bit of copy from somewhere as a response, isn't a debate. It's you just being contrary and seemingly unable to form opinions of your own.

Your original post was little more than a cut and paste - you simply provided a link.  You provided no critique of the source, let alone mention its highly dubious origins.

You failed to critique the response, and have just dismissed it out of hand.  It is you who is failing to debate.  These are the typical actions of a conspiracy theorist, who uncritically passes on information supporting their point of view, and dismisses out of hand any contrary evidence.

[Jerk Chicken]

I don't know if @King Nuts still punts since his last review was 5 years ago.

Based on his recent threads/response to others lack of pussy is definitely getting to him.

[King Nuts]

I don't know if @King Nuts still punts since his last review was 5 years ago.

Based on his recent threads/response to others lack of pussy is definitely getting to him.

Now you're just getting personal. And you're not even doing THAT very well.

[King Nuts]

Your original post was little more than a cut and paste - you simply provided a link.  You provided no critique of the source, let alone mention its highly dubious origins.

You failed to critique the response, and have just dismissed it out of hand.  It is you who is failing to debate.  These are the typical actions of a conspiracy theorist, who uncritically passes on information supporting their point of view, and dismisses out of hand any contrary evidence.

Is there some rule around here that I've missed? That I have to mention the origin, with full analysis and critique of content of every link that gets posted?

Most of the responses were no better than 'King Nuts is obviously a twat', hence my lack of engagement with them.

But since you ask, I take the view that to get the full picture, you need to try and learn and gain info from a variety of sources. I don't think there's any one doctor or investigative journalist who knows everything.

Don't call me a conspiracy theorist. It's wrong, it's a daft and meaningless term anyway, and it happens to be incorrect.

I am still making up my mind about this damn virus. It's nasty, alright, but it ain't the Black Death. And yet the world's economy is being imperilled by people, in my humble opinion, who don't truly understand what they're doing. Or if they do understand, they're very dangerous.

There have been others on this forum who've taken to writing entire essays about things. I prefer to keep posts short-ish and have a bit of banter. This ain't the Oxford Union.

As regards the original link, I don't really care about the Falun Gong thing, and when you trace back the origin of ownership and control of a great media outlets, there's frequently going to be something fishy somewhere.

[freeze44]

Is there some rule around here that I've missed? That I have to mention the origin, with full analysis and critique of content of every link that gets posted?

Most of the responses were no better than 'King Nuts is obviously a twat', hence my lack of engagement with them.

But since you ask, I take the view that to get the full picture, you need to try and learn and gain info from a variety of sources. I don't think there's any one doctor or investigative journalist who knows everything.

Don't call me a conspiracy theorist. It's wrong, it's a daft and meaningless term anyway, and it happens to be incorrect.

I am still making up my mind about this damn virus. It's nasty, alright, but it ain't the Black Death. And yet the world's economy is being imperilled by people, in my humble opinion, who don't truly understand what they're doing. Or if they do understand, they're very dangerous.

There have been others on this forum who've taken to writing entire essays about things. I prefer to keep posts short-ish and have a bit of banter. This ain't the Oxford Union.

As regards the original link, I don't really care about the Falun Gong thing, and when you trace back the origin of ownership and control of a great media outlets, there's frequently going to be something fishy somewhere.

Well let's try eh since you asked.

This ain't the off topic from before. A number here asked the owners if we could have off topic back whilst the virus has put a lid on punting and they agreed on the proviso we didn't turn it into a war zone.

So, I take that to mean post responsibly, don't try to wind people up and get a reaction and generally be respectful to each other.

Or to quote admin- 'Wind your neck in'.

[David1970]

As regards the original link, I don't really care about the Falun Gong thing, and when you trace back the origin of ownership and control of a great media outlets, there's frequently going to be something fishy somewhere.

The post you started was based on a propaganda video made by the Falun Gong religions sect front origination.
Not some news item from  the Times or the BBC.
You promoted this propaganda video either know who made it or without taking 2 click on your PC to check, either way you were wrong to promote your conspiracy theories using it.

[tantric talents]

Thanks OP
Very thought provoking stuff. Not a lot of it surprises me.
Most of the Science quoted should be verifiable. Also I can’t say I blame the Falun Gong for wanting a bit of payback.
Personally I wouldn’t trust Tedros further than I could throw him 👎

[King Nuts]

The post you started was based on a propaganda video made by the Falun Gong religions sect front origination.
Not some news item from  the Times or the BBC.
You promoted this propaganda video either know who made it or without taking 2 click on your PC to check, either way you were wrong to promote your conspiracy theories using it.

Zzzzzz

[King Nuts]

Well let's try eh since you asked.

This ain't the off topic from before. A number here asked the owners if we could have off topic back whilst the virus has put a lid on punting and they agreed on the proviso we didn't turn it into a war zone.

So, I take that to mean post responsibly, don't try to wind people up and get a reaction and generally be respectful to each other.

Or to quote admin- 'Wind your neck in'.

'Post responsibly', eh?

OK, so just stick the established stories then. Let's not having anything that isn't on the Guardian's website, or the BBC's etc etc

As regards the 'respectful' bit, take a look at some of the baseless personal remarks that people have made about me. I don't care, as it's water off a duck's back. You don't know me and I don't know any of you.

I've been on this board since it started. It's always been lively, with some interesting viewpoints and strong characters.

It'd be a shame if that changed.

[tynetunnel]

Well let's try eh since you asked.

This ain't the off topic from before. A number here asked the owners if we could have off topic back whilst the virus has put a lid on punting and they agreed on the proviso we didn't turn it into a war zone.

So, I take that to mean post responsibly, don't try to wind people up and get a reaction and generally be respectful to each other.

Or to quote admin- 'Wind your neck in'.

As someone who never used to visit ‘off topic’ before, I can certainly see why it got taken down, and I wonder if it’s got long left now... Which would be a shame, if it were to go. What has started out as a lighthearted bit of banter, mostly about Corona virus and how peeps are dealing with it, has quickly turned into a sticky, claggy minefield, and bogged down with two particular sorts who im finding tiresome already.

The clown who started this thread (along with multiple others) has only posted on UKP twice a year in the preceding three years, but has given us the joy of 84 posts (and counting) in the last 6 days. And not reviewed in 5 years. If people like him get off topic closed down, i for one am going to be bloody annoyed. Not least because there’s precious punting related stuff going on (obviously) at this time, and without this section the site might struggle.

Onto the ignore list he goes, along with stapler. Even at this time of life being very pedestrian, I don’t have time for their bollocks!

[freeze44]

'Post responsibly', eh?

OK, so just stick the established stories then. Let's not having anything that isn't on the Guardian's website, or the BBC's etc etc

As regards the 'respectful' bit, take a look at some of the baseless personal remarks that people have made about me. I don't care, as it's water off a duck's back. You don't know me and I don't know any of you.

I've been on this board since it started. It's always been lively, with some interesting viewpoints and strong characters.

It'd be a shame if that changed.

Well no surprise you can't take a bit of constructive feedback 

Best of luck then. I won't be bothering with you again.

[King Nuts]

Well no surprise you can't take a bit of constructive feedback 

Best of luck then. I won't be bothering with you again.

Good. I wasn't even aware of you until now.

[King Nuts]

The clown who started this thread (along with multiple others) has only posted on UKP twice a year in the preceding three years, but has given us the joy of 84 posts (and counting) in the last 6 days. And not reviewed in 5 years.

Clown, eh? It's you making personally abusive remarks that will get this closed down. Not me, for injecting a bit of life.

As regards not posting a review lately, there are reasons for that, and I don't need to explain them. Besides which, I have posted twice more reviews than you have.

I was one of the first people on this forum when it started. It was a pretty lively place back then. It'd be a shame if that changed.

[tantric talents]

I actually really missed off topic. A shame that the few enmities that developed eventually forced it to close. Though not there from the beginning I did later enjoy a lot of well reasoned arguments.

I especially miss Marmalade and his often sage and witty observations.
Thank God for Winky Wanky or this show would now be nearly humourless!

Personally I have become vehemently anti lobby media and as for the BBC! Don’t even get me started.
I used to quite enjoy Peston but he’s become a parody of himself. Hate the show now.
Question time has actually marginally improved since they removed the pre-selected audience but that won’t last.

I really used to enjoy your posts KN and have enjoyed your reviews too Freeze!
Don’t fall out so soon please? There’s many weeks of this bloody virus to go and we all need to keep our civility and humour
All said and done we may not all agree politically but we all love a great shag and that’s why we’re here ?
Just my tuppence worth
Kindly don’t shoot the messenger

[Squire Haggard]

The virus is over 96% from the disease reservoir known as the Horseshoe Bat. Why go to the time and trouble of making it in a lab, when it can be found in this bat? Similarly, why would anyone plant explosives in the twin towers when they were going to fly planes into them. 

'' In 2019, a coronavirus pandemic began in Wuhan, China. Researchers determined that the coronavirus is likely closely related to those found in horseshoe bats.''

External Link/Members Only



''TECHNICAL FOCUS: Zoonotic component of 2019-nCoV and human-animal interface

Increasing evidences demonstrate the link between the 2019-nCoV and other similar known coronaviruses (CoV)
circulating in bats, and more specifically those of the Rhinolophus bat sub-species. These sub-species are abundant
and widely present in Southern China, and across Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Europe. Recent studies indicate
that more than 500 CoVs have been identified in bats in China. To be noted that serological studies conducted in
rural population living close to bats natural habitat in caves revealed a 2.9% bat-CoV seroprevalence, demonstrating
that humans exposure to bat-CoVs might be common.
1
However, the route of transmission to humans at the start of this event remains unclear. Bats are rare in markets in
China but hunted and sold directly to restaurants for food.
2 The current most likely hypothesis is that an
intermediary host animal has played a role in the transmission. ''

External Link/Members Only

[freeze44]

I actually really missed off topic. A shame that the few enmities that developed eventually forced it to close. Though not there from the beginning I did later enjoy a lot of well reasoned arguments.

I especially miss Marmalade and his often sage and witty observations.
Thank God for Winky Wanky or this show would now be nearly humourless!

Personally I have become vehemently anti lobby media and as for the BBC! Don’t even get me started.
I used to quite enjoy Peston but he’s become a parody of himself. Hate the show now.
Question time has actually marginally improved since they removed the pre-selected audience but that won’t last.

I really used to enjoy your posts KN and have enjoyed your reviews too Freeze!
Don’t fall out so soon please? There’s many weeks of this bloody virus to go and we all need to keep our civility and humour
All said and done we may not all agree politically but we all love a great shag and that’s why we’re here ?
Just my tuppence worth
Kindly don’t shoot the messenger

Hey TT no falling out am just stepping aside from jungle jim peanuts who wants the good old days back but got a bit of shock coming if can't change his ways.

Agree with your points and yes where here to discuss shagging 

[Mikeh38]

The virus came from the Level 4 BSL that's in Wuhan, introduced by China at the world military games that took place in Wuhan in October 2019, the American team left the games early.

[King Nuts]

I really used to enjoy your posts KN

Thank you. I was glad to see the OT forum back, and it was always a lively sort of place where people gave as good as they got.

I've posted a couple of mildly controversial links and ideas about things, but instead of it kicking off a debate, I've been called a clown, conspiracy theorist, accused of not researching stuff, promoting fake news, being sexually deprived and so on. All bollocks, of course.

Obvs I don't take any of it personally. We're all here anonymously, and I'm only here for a bit of banter, and hopefully some verbal sparring with persons of wit and intellect.

Yes, where IS Marmalade?

[daviemac]

The virus came from the Level 4 BSL that's in Wuhan, introduced by China at the world military games that took place in Wuhan in October 2019, the American team left the games early.

I hope you can back that claim up with fact.

Edit
Just to be very clear, you are claiming the COVID-19 virus originated in the  Level 4 Biological lab in Wuhan China and not though some natural cause.

[winkywanky]

 

[jeanphillipe]

Thank you. I was glad to see the OT forum back, and it was always a lively sort of place where people gave as good as they got.

I've posted a couple of mildly controversial links and ideas about things, but instead of it kicking off a debate, I've been called a clown, conspiracy theorist, accused of not researching stuff, promoting fake news, being sexually deprived and so on. All bollocks, of course.

Obvs I don't take any of it personally. We're all here anonymously, and I'm only here for a bit of banter, and hopefully some verbal sparring with persons of wit and intellect.

Yes, where IS Marmalade?

He was given a little reprimand as he took umbridge with one of the changes and dissapeared shortly after.
Perhaps he just needed a break from the site.

[whoya.kiddin]

I thought the origin of COVID-19  had been proved conclusively to be eating bat soup while in range of a 5G ariel operated by a Chinese (pronounced GY-NA) telecoms company ( I might have got that wrong though).