Author Topic: The origin of the virus  (Read 10387 times)

Offline Doc Holliday

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He was given a little reprimand as he took umbridge with one of the changes and dissapeared shortly after.
Perhaps he just needed a break from the site.

Marmalade still reads. (last login 7th April) I miss his posts also and tried to persuade him to post again some time ago, but as yet he has declined?

Offline Colston36

What is the this y'all about? Are you from Kentucky?

Offline Doc Holliday

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The virus came from the Level 4 BSL that's in Wuhan, introduced by China at the world military games that took place in Wuhan in October 2019, the American team left the games early.

I hope you can back that claim up with fact.

Edit
Just to be very clear, you are claiming the COVID-19 virus originated in the  Level 4 Biological lab in Wuhan China and not though some natural cause.

From the man who was first in denial ...

Jeez there's only 29 (22 have recovered) confirmed cases in the uk out of a population of 70 million. If the government gave a fuck the they would have stopped the planes flying.

Then clearly knew nothing about virology ....

Let's get one thing straight, people are not being tested for Covid 19 because there is no test, they are being tested for coronavirus of which there are hundreds if not thousands of strains, so the likely hood of a positive test is much higher.


Offline Jerk Chicken

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Now you're just getting personal. And you're not even doing THAT very well.

Tut tut ... touch a nerve did it?  Your post last night stated you don't take things personally; make your mind up old chap!

- Your last review was March 2015

- Reasonable to question if you still punt; you eluded to winding down. This is a punting forum incase you forgot.

- The threads you have started and responses to others when you have been challenged are a lil bizarre as you can do doubt see from the replies you are receiving. Denial is a horrible trait in humans.

All adds up to lack of pussy me thinks  :D :D :D

No doubt you will beg to differ.

 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 08:42:23 am by Jerk Chicken »
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Offline King Nuts

He was given a little reprimand as he took umbridge with one of the changes and dissapeared shortly after.
Perhaps he just needed a break from the site.

A reprimand? What is this, school?

Offline daviemac

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I thought the origin of COVID-19  had been proved conclusively to be eating bat soup while in range of a 5G ariel operated by a Chinese (pronounced GY-NA) telecoms company ( I might have got that wrong though).
Even US military sites accept there's nothing to link the virus to the World Military Games or the Level 4 BSL laboratory.  Mikeh38 needs to have a good explanation for the post he made.

Anything relating to 5G is a, unwanted on here, conspiracy theory.

Offline King Nuts

Tut tut ... touch a nerve did it?

- Your last review was March 2015

- Reasonable to question if you still punt; this is a punting forum incase you forgot.

- The threads you have started and responses to others when you have been challenged are a lil bizarre as you can do doubt see from the replies you are receiving. Denial is a horrible trait in humans.

All adds up to lack of pussy me thinks  :D :D :D

No doubt you will beg to differ.

I have not punted for some years, and I don't owe you an explanation. I was here at the beginning and have posted plenty of reviews and contributions, and think I have earned my stripes.

Your continuing groundless personal attacks on me, based on some puerile notion that I've had no pussy because I haven't been paying for it, are as comical as they are tedious and inaccurate. You know zit about me, but your true colours are coming out.

Like I said, I've come back here for a bit of banter, chit-chat, debate.... and fun.

But all these commodities are now looking very thin on the ground.



Offline Jerk Chicken

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I have not punted for some years, and I don't owe you an explanation. I was here at the beginning and have posted plenty of reviews and contributions, and think I have earned my stripes.

Your continuing groundless personal attacks on me, based on some puerile notion that I've had no pussy because I haven't been paying for it are as comical as they are tedious and inaccurate. You know zit about me, but your true colours are coming out.

Like I said, I've come back here for a bit of banter, chit-chat, debate.... and fun.

But all these commodities are now looking very thin on the ground.

I know it's early but can I suggest you grab yourself a stiff drink (maybe a decent single malt kicks the brain cells into action) and look at some of your cut n paste replies again when you have been challenged.

Where do I say "paid pussy" ... can I also suggest you make that a double and stop behaving like a wuss.

Man-up Bro  :D

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Offline Beamer

Tut tut ... touch a nerve did it?  Your post last night stated you don't take things personally; make your mind up old chap!

- Your last review was March 2015

- Reasonable to question if you still punt; you eluded to winding down. This is a punting forum incase you forgot.

- The threads you have started and responses to others when you have been challenged are a lil bizarre as you can do doubt see from the replies you are receiving. Denial is a horrible trait in humans.

All adds up to lack of pussy me thinks  :D :D :D

No doubt you will beg to differ.

1 Site ethos / mission
This Forum puts the interests of Punters first through the sharing of Reviews.

.........last review was in 2015? 
Obviously reviews will be influenced by the Covid19 crisis,  but only for the last 4 month's or so.

Begs the question......
WTF are you doing here?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 09:19:43 am by Beamer »

Offline Doc Holliday

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Like I said, I've come back here for a bit of banter, chit-chat, debate.... and fun.


Continuing the debate then and further to my previous critique of the video which you did not respond to. https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=277003.msg2841998#msg2841998

It seems that General Robert Spalding is also very well known for his views on China. He too has a bit of a skeleton in the closet. There is a certain irony that this is related to 5g  :D

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Interestingly he has an anti-china book out end 2019 and has been heavily promoting it.

On the subject of books Gordon G Chang the Asian Affairs correspondent featured in the video and who is also strongly anti Chinese wrote a book in 2001 "The coming collapse of China" predicting the fall of communist China within a decade. Clearly this didn't happen but he later explained in 2011 that it would happen very soon.

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To be fair to him unlike Judy Mikovits discussed in my previous post, who states the virus could not have crossed over naturally, but had to be created in a lab he steps back from this and says we don't know where it came from but we must consider the possibility that it was laboratory created. This is fair comment we should have an open mind.

They all have their agenda's which affects the credibility of the documentary.

Finally though there are flaws with the 'created in the lab biowarfare argument.

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So KV as with my previous post this is not an 'ad hominem' attack and if you are true to your word that you are just 'curious about this virus', I would welcome your comments to take the discussion forward?

« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 09:41:33 am by Doc Holliday »

Offline jeanphillipe

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This Forum puts the interests of Punters first through the sharing of Reviews.

.........last review was in 2015? 
Obviously reviews will be influenced by the Covid19 crisis,  but only for the last 4 month's or so.

Begs the question......
WTF are you doing here?

Its offtopic... you know doesnt have to be related to punting.

You and david1970 would shut down any topic which even slightly strayed from punting on the main boards. So i dont understand why you guys are now so prevalent here.

You only come to this site for punting related info, off topic is  what it says in the title. Put him on ignore if he bothers you so much.

I dont visit the offtopic section of any other website but i like visiting here because i have something in common ppl with here. Even every other opinion may vary, no one frown on punting here.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 09:40:58 am by jeanphillipe »

Offline Beamer

He was given a little reprimand as he took umbridge with one of the changes and dissapeared shortly after.
Perhaps he just needed a break from the site.

Is this another reprimand??
Where is the naughty step??

Offline Jerk Chicken

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1 Site ethos / mission
This Forum puts the interests of Punters first through the sharing of Reviews.

.........last review was in 2015? 
Obviously reviews will be influenced by the Covid19 crisis,  but only for the last 4 month's or so.

Begs the question......
WTF are you doing here?

Exactly my point!
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Offline Beamer

Exactly my point!

Watch out JC, you might be in line for a reprimand as well  !  :hi:

Offline Jerk Chicken

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Watch out JC, you might be in line for a reprimand as well  !  :hi:

Oh lord ...  :(
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Offline Doc Holliday

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Watch out JC, you might be in line for a reprimand as well  !  :hi:

My understanding is that in relation to Marmalade the person giving the reprimand is no longer with us?

Also the autocensored word that was the initial trigger is also no longer in operation?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 10:01:44 am by Doc Holliday »

Offline winkywanky

I thought the origin of COVID-19  had been proved conclusively to be eating bat soup while in range of a 5G ariel operated by a Chinese (pronounced GY-NA) telecoms company ( I might have got that wrong though).


What has 5G got to do with anything?





« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 10:12:07 am by winkywanky »

Offline Squire Haggard

To be fair to him unlike Judy Mikovits discussed in my previous post, who states the virus could not have crossed over naturally, but had to be created in a lab he steps back from this and says we don't know where it came from but we must consider the possibility that it was laboratory created. This is fair comment we should have an open mind.

What are the odds of this having crossed over naturally? It seems to me that there's a good chance that it did, since experts have been warning about it for years. I read that it consists of over 96% of the Horseshoe Bat virus. Where do you think the remaining under 4% comes from? Could it just be natural mutations, or was someone tinkering with it in a laboratory? Maybe we'll never know the truth?

Offline bhudda

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I thought the origin of COVID-19  had been proved conclusively to be eating bat soup while in range of a 5G ariel operated by a Chinese (pronounced GY-NA) telecoms company ( I might have got that wrong though).

You left out the bit about the grassy knoll

Offline Doc Holliday

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What are the odds of this having crossed over naturally? It seems to me that there's a good chance that it did, since experts have been warning about it for years. I read that it consists of over 96% of the Horseshoe Bat virus. Where do you think the remaining under 4% comes from? Could it just be natural mutations, or was someone tinkering with it in a laboratory? Maybe we'll never know the truth?

All we know with any certainty is that the bat will be the ancestor for the virus. Direct transmission from bat to human has never, to our knowledge, previously occurred, so the most likely route is via an intermediate host. The pangolin is a suspect but that apparently doesn't fit 100% either with regard the missing 4%? Overwhelming majority of scientists say that it is not bioengineered. I gather amongst other things that if it was, it was a very poor effort.

Cannot rule out leakage from a laboratory. The Chinese do have history of such accidents and the woman mentioned in the video Shi Zhengli is also known as the 'bat woman' due to her collection of bats and research on coronaviruses post Sars1 in 2003. That said most scientists whilst not ruling it out feel it is more likely a natural crossover.

The complicating factor is that we cannot trust the Chinese government who covered up the outbreak etc destroying much of the evidence in the process?

So yes we may never know but hopefully the whole world will be better prepared for the next time as it will undoubtedly happen again?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 02:26:07 pm by Doc Holliday »

Offline winkywanky

One would certainly hope from now on there will always be stocks of PPE for any future outbreaks of a novel virus, and the sheer size of the effort to come up with treatments and vaccines by the whole international medical community, will surely leave a lasting positive legacy for the future?

Offline tynetunnel

My understanding is that in relation to Marmalade the person giving the reprimand is no longer with us?

Also the autocensored word that was the initial trigger is also no longer in operation?

Well I have learned something new today Doc. Mainly that ‘prossie’ is no longer auto censored  :D

Offline cotton

Well I have learned something new today Doc. Mainly that ‘prossie’ is no longer auto censored  :D
Yeh i learn that new today as well , so it may not be auto censored but is it allowed or still verboten  :unknown:

Offline jeanphillipe

Well I have learned something new today Doc. Mainly that ‘prossie’ is no longer auto censored  :D

I can lay rest to that niggling question in my head, what was that fecking word that got banned again?

Offline Xtro

Cannot rule out leakage from a laboratory. The Chinese do have history of such accidents and the woman mentioned in the video Shi Zhengli is also known as the 'bat woman' due to her collection of bats and research on coronaviruses post Sars1 in 2003....

Fuck meeting her on a Dark Knight!   :cool:

Offline Thephoenix

Can't help relating a question my young great grandson asked me today...... "Why don't we just exterminate all the bats?"

Good childhood logic????.... Well he is a big fan of Dr Who.

Well what do bats actually contribute to the world anyway, except pass on all these nasty viruses?
 Would we miss them very much? :(
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 10:44:26 pm by Thephoenix »

Offline GingerNuts

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Can't help relating a question my young great grandson asked me today...... "Why don't we just exterminate all the bats?"

Good childhood logic????.... Well he is a big fan of Dr Who.

There are only around 10 billion so it should be a quick fix.

Well what do bats actually contribute to the world anyway, except pass on all these nasty viruses?
 Would we miss them very much? :(

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Offline Thephoenix

There are only around 10 billion so it should be a quick fix.

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Fair enough...... I'll just have to tell him that gt grandad checked on ukpunting, and maybe it's not such a great idea.

Offline winkywanky

Can't help relating a question my young great grandson asked me today...... "Why don't we just exterminate all the bats?"

Good childhood logic????.... Well he is a big fan of Dr Who.

Well what do bats actually contribute to the world anyway, except pass on all these nasty viruses?
 Would we miss them very much?
:(


Of course, they deserve their place on the earth like any other creature, and they would fit into the food chain somewhere, they would be missed.

As ever, don't shoot the messenger...in this case the bats were the messengers, shoot the diners instead, those (literally) batshit-crazy Chinese, eating all manner of stuff and keeping it in unhygienic ways.

Offline Wadebridge

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The virus is over 96% from the disease reservoir known as the Horseshoe Bat. Why go to the time and trouble of making it in a lab, when it can be found in this bat? :crazy:
'' In 2019, a coronavirus pandemic began in Wuhan, China. Researchers determined that the coronavirus is likely closely related to those found in horseshoe bats.''
I don't dispute that the 2019 novel Coronavirus is probably a very close derivative (96%) of the type of virus found in bats. Potentially deadly ARDS inducing viruses they may be, but humans remained safe from them because of the fact that there has never been an easy way for these zoonotic viruses's 'spike' proteins to bind themselves to the ACE2 receptors in the human body to gain access to human cells. The BBC2 'Horizon' tv documentary explained this in quite clear and lucid terms. 
However, studies on the S-protein in the 'spike' of the 2019 novel coronavirus have concluded that it is remarkably well adapted to latch onto human ACE2 receptors.
Judy Mikovits, whom Doc Holliday makes reference to, is certainly not alone amongst expert scientists who are suggesting that this 'adaptation' could not have occurred naturally, but is instead suspected to have been 'given a helping hand' in a laboratory.
So what does that tell you?
Continuing the debate then and further to my previous critique ... 
To be fair to him unlike Judy Mikovits discussed in my previous post, who states the virus could not have crossed over naturally, but had to be created in a lab he steps back from this and says we don't know where it came from but we must consider the possibility that it was laboratory created. This is fair comment we should have an open mind.
Finally though there are flaws with the 'created in the lab biowarfare argument.
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Starting to change your mind Doc? After previously dismissing these 'alternative' arguments as "utter nonsense."?
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Offline Xtro

As ever, don't shoot the messenger...in this case the bats were the messengers, shoot the diners instead, those (literally) batshit-crazy Chinese, eating all manner of stuff and keeping it in unhygienic ways.

Totally agree.   :thumbsup:
Bring the rest of the world up to our standards.
Feed dead diseased cows back to cows,  :unknown:  which in turn will give us a brain disease and when that's over we'll all eat horse meat without knowing it.   :scare:

Offline winkywanky

Yes, we had our place in the sun, and we rightly took a load of flak over it, and we learned from it.

This has apparently happened before in the wet markets of China, and they seem to be doing fuck all about it  :unknown:.

Offline Xtro

Yes, we had our place in the sun, and we rightly took a load of flak over it, and we learned from it.

This has apparently happened before in the wet markets of China, and they seem to be doing fuck all about it  :unknown:.

And it will probably happen again. Because they can!   :dash:

Offline winkywanky

I think there will be several container-loads of shit headed China's way when this is all over.

I think there will finally be change, now that the whole world community has been so badly-affected by something which arose effectively out of their negligence.

Offline Xtro

It will go underground, ala dog fighting over here. 

Offline winkywanky

Have you seen the way China deals with stuff they really don't like? It ain't pretty. They still hang people for doing socially-irresponsible stuff.

Like in any country, you'll always get people who break the law, but currently these markets are very common and openly conducted AFAIK, and that has to stop if there isn't to be another similar situation just down the road. It can't be allowed to carry on.

Offline Colston36

So they have a clear agenda. So what? They're anti-communist, anti-CCP, and pro Trump. Sounds OK to me.

Name me a media outlet that has no agenda.

As regards Trump 'seizing on the truth', if you'd actually watched that documentary from beginning to end, there's no finite, sound-bite-sized version of the truth where this virus is concerned. Its origins are complex. Measuring and evaluating its effect is very much a work in progress. People are learning more and more about it every day.

Very easy to watch 3 minutes of something and sit back and say 'that's bollocks' because someone says something you don't like or agree with, or that seems controversial.

This must be the first time in years when the words Trump and Truth have been seen together.

Offline king tarzan

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This must be the first time in years when the words Trump and Truth have been seen together.

Are you a Trump supporter ? More of a UK fan of his..
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Offline winkywanky

Probably more relevant to this thread than the GBN thread, nevertheless I have seen a very interesting interview on there with a Prof. Alex Dalgleish.

There are of course many theories on how Coronavirus came about, from naturally jumping across species from bats to humans, to purposely-concocted-and-released from a Wuhan Lab onto an unsuspecting world, a world which by and large would be far less able to deal with it than China (the likely result from that, the world goes backwards a few years while China gets to leap ahead). And perhaps somewhere in-between, a genuine accidental leak of a new virus?

Professor Dalgleish is Professor of Oncology at St George's in Tooting, well respected around the world by all accounts. He also has great expertise in vaccine development and virology, going back to him specialising in studying HIV when knowledge about AIDS was in its infancy. He and some Norweigan academic have been looking at this.

Anyway, here's the nub:

He says the virus that causes Covid is highly unlikely to have occurred naturally. That's because genetically it appears to be a hybrid of two viruses, with the part that specifically attaches to human receptor cells seemingly very specifically engineered to allow entry and infection into humans. Something that would have taken many years naturally, and the chances of this happening so quickly are remote.

Moreover this virus which has wrought havoc around the world apparently cannot infect bats. If it came from bats in the first place, after adapting to infect humans, that would take decades to happen. It wouldn't suddenyl stop infecting bats after having just come from them.

He also knows much about the SARS and MERS epidemics and the virology associated with that, he is also aware that (I think it was) SARS effectively escaped from a Chinese Lab, probably on the hair of a Lab worker. I think that's what he said. He also pointed out that the Lab in Wuhan apparently came out very badly from an inspection in 2018, where protocols and procedures were found to be dangerously lax.

Also, research in recent years in the Wuhan Lab has centred around developing vaccines to combat potential new, emerging viruses, and previous academic papers have shown them to have made genetically-engineered viruses in pursuit of that research. The NIH (powerful US national health body) amongst others have been funding this research, under the direction of a certain Mr. Anthony Fauci. There have been heated debates in the Senate about this, Fauci has been questioned and become angry about any blame being apportioned to him. I don't know whether he was actually involved in driving the research, or whether he just channelled fuding to it?

Some of this stuff is known already, but putting all these factors together in a coherent and convincing way, he seems pretty well convinced that a genetically-engineered virus which was assisting in vaccine research, somehow managed to escape the Lab. The rest as we know, is recent and very serious history, and is liable to be making life difficult to say the least, all around the world for probably the next decade or so. The sheer death toll as well as the huge economic damage, and as future mutations play out, perhaps even more unwanted excitement to come?

Dalgleish says he has brought this up before, but basically just been shouted down by much more powerful players.

Sorry, no links, I just literally heard it on telly, but I think of great interest?  :unknown: And hopefully the truth will out as they say.

Offline daviemac

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Why revive this old thread.   :dash:

You need solid indisputable evidence before posting where this came from not second hand speculation.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 04:09:58 pm by daviemac »

Offline winkywanky

Why revive this old thread.   :dash:

You need solid indisputable evidence before posting where this came from not second hand speculation.

Because you told me I'd posted it in the wrong place on the vaccination thread?

And I like to think I have presented it in a balanced way?

Can't fuckin' win!  :D

Offline daviemac

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Because you told me I'd posted it in the wrong place on the vaccination thread?

And I like to think I have presented it in a balanced way?

Can't fuckin' win!  :D
What part of "until there is undeniable evidence of where it actually came from, leave the speculation on the origins out?" are you not getting.

I didn't say you'd posted it in the wrong place I said it shouldn't be posted. 

Offline winkywanky

What part of "until there is undeniable evidence of where it actually came from, leave the speculation on the origins out?" are you not getting.

I didn't say you'd posted it in the wrong place I said it shouldn't be posted.


You are quite right davie, how thick of me  :hi:

I've been considering leaving UKP for some time now, on and off, perhaps now the time has come?

Can't talk about race, can't talk about religion, a few weeks ago I got a threatening  :bomb: from 90125 for apparently having a shit review/post ratio, when of course there's been a global pandemic. I realise and recognise reviewing punts is the life and soul of this place but FFS, I don't need that shit  :rolleyes:.

And now we can't even have a reasonable discussion about something which isn't 100% provable. What's the fucking point about anything then?  :unknown:

The Mod is always right, that's 100% true for sure, so when I am so frequently in the wrong then it's time I wasn't here any more.

So I am changing my password to gobbledigook right now so I can't change my mind  ;).

And I'm too tight to pay £20 to rejoin  :P.

To those who have enjoyed my postings and musings, it's been fun  :drinks:.

To those who have disagreed with me but put up a good argument, fair play to you  :thumbsup:.

To those who just sneered and/or thought Covid was all bollocks and so were Lockdowns, fuck off you idiots, and look how many people you killed with your attitude  :thumbsdown:.

Who said you couldn't make a leaving speech then?  :D

Offline cotton


You are quite right davie, how thick of me  :hi:

I've been considering leaving UKP for some time now, on and off, perhaps now the time has come?

Can't talk about race, can't talk about religion, a few weeks ago I got a threatening  :bomb: from 90125 for apparently having a shit review/post ratio, when of course there's been a global pandemic. I realise and recognise reviewing punts is the life and soul of this place but FFS, I don't need that shit  :rolleyes:.

And now we can't even have a reasonable discussion about something which isn't 100% provable. What's the fucking point about anything then?  :unknown:

The Mod is always right, that's 100% true for sure, so when I am so frequently in the wrong then it's time I wasn't here any more.

So I am changing my password to gobbledigook right now so I can't change my mind  ;).

And I'm too tight to pay £20 to rejoin  :P.

To those who have enjoyed my postings and musings, it's been fun  :drinks:.

To those who have disagreed with me but put up a good argument, fair play to you  :thumbsup:.

To those who just sneered and/or thought Covid was all bollocks and so were Lockdowns, fuck off you idiots, and look how many people you killed with your attitude  :thumbsdown:.

Who said you couldn't make a leaving speech then?  :D
Come on Winky dont be like that , everyone gets told off once in a while , like finns got told off , ive got told off , dont take it so to heart, take it on the chin , everyone thinks your great and you get cut more leeway that anyone else on here   :hi:

Offline houseboot

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Come on Winky dont be like that , everyone gets told off once in a while , like finns got told off , ive got told off , dont take it so to heart, take it on the chin , everyone thinks your great and you get cut more leeway that anyone else on here   :hi:

Everyone?  :unknown:

Assume nothing  :thumbsdown:

Offline lamboman

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, everyone thinks your great    :hi:

I don't,he always wants an argument despite often being wrong.
Banned reason: Shit stirrer and blocking moderator's PMs
Banned by: daviemac

Online PepeMAGA

Long article, but covers most of the arguments in favour of a lab leak. In personally about 70/30 in favour

External Link/Members Only

Offline daviemac

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Long article, but covers most of the arguments in favour of a lab leak. In personally about 70/30 in favour

External Link/Members Only

FFS  :dash: :dash:

What part of "until there is undeniable evidence of where it actually came from, leave the speculation on the origins out?" are you not getting.

I didn't say you'd posted it in the wrong place I said it shouldn't be posted.

This thread was dead and buried 16 months ago until WW revived.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 10:01:42 pm by daviemac »

Online PepeMAGA

FFS  :dash: :dash:

This thread was dead and buried 16 months ago until WW revived.
Apologies, missed that :hi:

Offline RogerBoner

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To those who have enjoyed my postings and musings, it's been fun  :drinks:.
/quote]
winkywanky I like you  :rose: