The origin of the virus

[The0neAnd0nly]

Give it less then 48 hours from his last post before WW is back 

To be fair to WW Im not sure what's allowed anymore. How is the Afghanistan thread still going with the no politics rule? 

[RogerBoner]

We could always have a vote on these matters 

[daviemac]

Give it less then 48 hours from his last post before WW is back 

To be fair to WW Im not sure what's allowed anymore. How is the Afghanistan thread still going with the no politics rule? 

That's still going because by and large people are discussing the effects in Afghanistan not politics in the UK.

The vaccine thread is still going because it is a fact that we have the vaccine, members can relay their personal experiences of that and any effects it has had as well as if the have actually had covid, again all factual.

Like I said this thread was dead and buried 16 months ago. It's a subject that has no answer yet people post what they claim to be facts, normally putting the blame firmly at the door of one nation without any evidence, other than second hand opinions of others, to support it.

[lamboman]

Is there a time limit on reviving threads?

[daviemac]

Is there a time limit on reviving threads?

If it hasn't been posted on for 12 months you get a big red warning, shown below. There's no set rule on reviving old threads we tend to rely on common sense.



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[sir wanksalot]

That's still going because by and large people are discussing the effects in Afghanistan not politics in the UK.

The vaccine thread is still going because it is a fact that we have the vaccine, members can relay their personal experiences of that and any effects it has had as well as if the have actually had covid, again all factual.

Like I said this thread was dead and buried 16 months ago. It's a subject that has no answer yet people post what they claim to be facts, normally putting the blame firmly at the door of one nation without any evidence, other than second hand opinions of others, to support it.

I'm sorry but I don't understand your position on this anymore.

This whole forum is an opinion platform. Some people will base that opinion on fact and others on speculation. Why are you drawing a red line under the origins of Covid???

How many times have we read punters speculating about the gender of a WG? There are no facts-just speculation but this is allowed and could effectively ruin a WG's career. Speculation in these cases has a risk of directly affecting people involved in the hobby we all enjoy. I don't think the Chinese government are ringing you up to complain are they?

The Afghanistan thread is filled with opinion (and a healthy dose of politics) as is the Covid vaccine thread. If those threads were all spouting the exact same facts then they wouldn't last very long. Instead we have people interpreting the facts as THEY understand them and then argue that position. I have lost count how many times members will extrapolate facts (derived by logic) from the information which is publicly available-how is this any different to the origins of Covid topic............I genuinely do not know.

I won't even dig into the "How is Boris doing" thread from last year or the "Covid and 5G" thread and let's not talk about how you allowed the thread about "little green men" as that topic can only ever be speculation.

Now before you get hot headed and tell us you can do what you like (which you can) I just wanted to say that I know being a mod is a pain in the ass. It's a thankless job and like trying to herd cats but I actually come on here more for the non-punting discussion these days than anything else. What is wrong in people expressing their opinion? You allow it in many, many other threads.

I understand that religion and politics are especially provocative but other than that why can we not discuss the origins of a once in a century pandemic. and the very fact that there is no clear evidence (which some might argue you would expect from an authoritarian regime).

Biden seems to be fair game on this forum yet reputable news outlets are discussing the lack of transparency in determining the origins of Covid yet we cannot discuss it?

[daviemac]

I'm sorry but I don't understand your position on this anymore.

 Why are you drawing a red line under the origins of Covid???

This thread was over and done with 16 MONTHS ago, it was revived by someone who continually wants to be controversial. he first posted on the vaccine thread, but the origins have nothing to do with the vaccine. He can't start a new thread so he ignored the warning and used this one.

At the very start of the pandemic we stopped people accusing one nation, one laboratory and speculating that it was done deliberately. This has been accepted for 16 months, why revive it now, especially as 16 months on and we are no nearer to finding out the true source.

Things have moved on in terms of events in the world as well as the situation with Covid. We want to allow discussion so quite a bit of leeway is given on current events but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

[sir wanksalot]

This thread was over and done with 16 MONTHS ago, it was revived by someone who continually wants to be controversial. he first posted on the vaccine thread, but the origins have nothing to do with the vaccine. He can't start a new thread so he ignored the warning and used this one.

At the very start of the pandemic we stopped people accusing one nation, one laboratory and speculating that it was done deliberately. This has been accepted for 16 months, why revive it now, especially as 16 months on and we are no nearer to finding out the true source.

Things have moved on in terms of events in the world as well as the situation with Covid. We want to allow discussion so quite a bit of leeway is given on current events but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

For the life of me I don't understand why you would want to stop people discussing the origins of it. "......we stopped people accusing one nation, one laboratory..." sounds like out of all the countries in the world you believe China is being unfairly picked on. Members are only debating the facts which we know and debating on other information which seems to have been suppressed. More learned people in the scientific field are also debating the same questions.

You say it was accepted that this would not be discussed. It wasn't. It was respected because you stopped people from discussing it-there is a difference. If this is really out of bounds then perhaps any relevant threads should have been locked.

The problem is the lack of consistency means you allow other topics and comments to be posted that are based on speculation yet curiously draw a red line over the origins of a virus that is affecting all of us.

Things have NOT moved on in terms of events in the world. Maybe for you but for many of us I would argue that Covid is still the overwhelming concern we have to contend with on a daily basis.

If the virus was accidentally leaked then this is massively important as it could happen again if biosecurity levels can be breached so easily.

I don't think speculating about this is any worse than speculating about whether a WG looks like she may have been born a man or "I know someone who knows someone who said she used to be a druggie" and as I have demonstrated above there are other topics, that by your own yardstick, should be banned but are not.

[Stretfordender]

All that will happen is people will stop replying on threads or will stop creating new threads which will then have an effect on the site in my opinion. The discussions on these threads are brilliant the majority of the time and can be informative and educational regardless of if you agree or disagree with others opinions. Just seems a bit self defeating from the mod. In my opinion.

[daviemac]

For the life of me I don't understand why you would want to stop people discussing the origins of it.

One question, would you be posting on this thread if WW hadn't revived it.   

Yet again you are going over old ground that has been covered in this 16 month old thread, it's all if's and but's.  We are 16 months on from this topic and still nobody knows where it originated, what is there to discuss.

This was revived by a member who likes to be controversial, who has also spat his dummy out because he can't talk about what he wants to talk about.

[sir wanksalot]

One question, would you be posting on this thread if WW hadn't revived it.   

Yet again you are going over old ground that has been covered in this 16 month old thread, it's all if's and but's.  We are 16 months on from this topic and still nobody knows where it originated, what is there to discuss.

This was revived by a member who likes to be controversial, who has also spat his dummy out because he can't talk about what he wants to talk about.

I have tried to approach the subject in question a couple of times, respectfully of course, and realised that you did not want us to talk about it.

What has the age of the thread got to do with it? 16 months or 16 days it shouldn't matter if someone resurrects a thread from last year.

Other topics which are based on speculation are allowed. Other posts on old threads are allowed.

With all due respect it very much sounds like it is your own personal wish that we cannot talk about it and not based on any specific board rules.

You may well be right that WW provoked a response by posting in that thread but you're at risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[daviemac]

I have tried to approach the subject in question a couple of times, respectfully of course, and realised that you did not want us to talk about it.

What has the age of the thread got to do with it? 16 months or 16 days it shouldn't matter if someone resurrects a thread from last year.

Other topics which are based on speculation are allowed. Other posts on old threads are allowed.

With all due respect it very much sounds like it is your own personal wish that we cannot talk about it and not based on any specific board rules.

You may well be right that WW provoked a response by posting in that thread but you're at risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The age of a thread does matter, that's why there's a big red warning when you go to revive one.

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To resolve this I'll refer it to Head1 for his opinion.

[Stretfordender]

Genuine question and not having a go but more for clarification, if WW had started a new thread would that have been acceptable?

[threechilliman]

Genuine question and not having a go but more for clarification, if WW had started a new thread would that have been acceptable?

That is the question.

I've seen members ticked off for starting duplicate threads and for reviving old threads.

[sir wanksalot]

The age of a thread does matter, that's why there's a big red warning when you go to revive one.

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To resolve this I'll refer it to Head1 for his opinion.

You know what? I actually have no burning desire to discuss the origins of Covid. I just thought that banning the topic was inconsistent with other topics which are tolerated.

Daviemac, I really don't want to bust your balls about this so whatever you decide is cool.

I think I have too much time on my hands and I need to exercise more self discipline in stopping myself from getting involved in petty squabbles that don't really achieve anything one way or the other.

I'm sorry mate if I've been a bit of a pain.

It's the non-punting stuff I gravitate to more and more these days as I think I am about to retire from the punting side of things as lockdown helped to break that addictive circuit in my brain.

[daviemac]

You know what? I actually have no burning desire to discuss the origins of Covid. I just thought that banning the topic was inconsistent with other topics which are tolerated.

Daviemac, I really don't want to bust your balls about this so whatever you decide is cool.

I think I have too much time on my hands and I need to exercise more self discipline in stopping myself from getting involved in petty squabbles that don't really achieve anything one way or the other.

I'm sorry mate if I've been a bit of a pain.

It's the non-punting stuff I gravitate to more and more these days as I think I am about to retire from the punting side of things as lockdown helped to break that addictive circuit in my brain.

No need to apologise, no harm in questioning any decisions. WW does tend to 'sail close to the wind' and he has been temporary banned before.

All this started when WW picked up on this post. -

I see we are again speculating on the origins of Covid and blaming one particular nation of being the cause. This topic was discussed in this thread, -  https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=277003.msg2841846#msg2841846 - and despite requests nobody could produce irrefutable evidence of the actual cause.

The title of this thread is 'A Covid-19 vaccine at last!' so would it not be better to keep it on topic and, until there is undeniable evidence of where it actually came from, leave the speculation on the origins out?

Which was aimed as much at this ↓ as what WW had posted.

meanwhile the Chinese are leaking viruses that could devastate mankind.

[lamboman]

If it hasn't been posted on for 12 months you get a big red warning, shown below. There's no set rule on reviving old threads we tend to rely on common sense.



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I see not having revived one I didn't know 

[Thephoenix]

I apologise in advance if this post is against the rules. Please delete if applicable.

I have no intention of offering an opinion or carrying on the thread.

I simply wish to let members know that Channel 4 are televising a programme tomorrow night at 10.15pm,
entitled 'Did Covid Leak From A Lab In China?'

An in-depth look at the origins of Covid-19

Once again...just for member's information....not intended to extend discussion on this thread.

[badsin]

Thanks thepheonix, I'll be watching it

[The0neAnd0nly]

So I am changing my password to gobbledigook right now so I can't change my mind  .

And I'm too tight to pay £20 to rejoin 

Will miss this guy looks like hes stuck to his word and actually left.

Yes he could be infuriatingly argumentative but called people out on their B.S!


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[Bopcrown]

Give it less then 48 hours from his last post before WW is back 

To be fair to WW Im not sure what's allowed anymore. How is the Afghanistan thread still going with the no politics rule? 

What annoys me:

EE opens up, lots of immigrants looking to better their lives.
Huge Explosion in EE working girls.

"Thousands of Syrian refugees" -Do I see any syrians not a one.
Libiyan  refugees -No Libyian SP's

It's going to be the same with the Afghani's.

[daviemac]

What annoys me:

EE opens up, lots of immigrants looking to better their lives.
Huge Explosion in EE working girls.

"Thousands of Syrian refugees" -Do I see any syrians not a one.
Libiyan  refugees -No Libyian SP's

It's going to be the same with the Afghani's.

In what way does this relate to the virus.   

[sir wanksalot]

In what way does this relate to the virus.   

 

[king tarzan]

What annoys me:

EE opens up, lots of immigrants looking to better their lives.
Huge Explosion in EE working girls.

"Thousands of Syrian refugees" -Do I see any syrians not a one.
Libiyan  refugees -No Libyian SP's

It's going to be the same with the Afghani's.

.they already know hand to mouth existence many of them.. so benefits will be a benefit..

Hopefully some will be a benefit to the UK ( not a burden that most are) and, in education, health care, military personnel, police, transport.

[daviemac]

.they already know hand to mouth existence many of them.. so benefits will be a benefit..

Hopefully some will be a benefit to the UK ( not a burden that most are) and, in education, health care, military personnel, police, transport.

FFS It can maybe just maybe be expected from a newbie but you should know better.

So again.

In what way does this relate to the virus.   

[Marmalade]

In what way does this relate to the virus.   

It doesn’t. Unless we get creative…

e.g.
“Immigrants are a virus”
the way abolitionists claim
“sex with prostitutes is violence against women”.

Just abuse of the language, like drinking a cocktail of mango & jizz and calling it the tastiest drink since roasted peanuts.


But, as China are unlikely to cooperate with the latest investigation, the W.H.O. I believe has recently said that the origin of the virus may never be known.

The only thing that has changed is that it is now considered acceptable to suggest it might have been lab-orientated — whereas 18 months ago such a statement would be condemned as racist.

 

[daviemac]

But, as China are unlikely to cooperate with the latest investigation, the W.H.O. I believe has recently said that the origin of the virus may never be known.

If the W.H.O. can't determine the origin then it seems a bit pointless us apportioning blame anywhere. The only reason this is back at the top of the board is because of some numpty posting something totally unrelated.

[Payyourwaymate]

You are quite right davie, how thick of me 

I've been considering leaving UKP for some time now, on and off, perhaps now the time has come?

Can't talk about race, can't talk about religion, a few weeks ago I got a threatening  from 90125 for apparently having a shit review/post ratio, when of course there's been a global pandemic. I realise and recognise reviewing punts is the life and soul of this place but FFS, I don't need that shit  .

And now we can't even have a reasonable discussion about something which isn't 100% provable. What's the fucking point about anything then? 

The Mod is always right, that's 100% true for sure, so when I am so frequently in the wrong then it's time I wasn't here any more.

So I am changing my password to gobbledigook right now so I can't change my mind  .

And I'm too tight to pay £20 to rejoin  .

To those who have enjoyed my postings and musings, it's been fun  .

To those who have disagreed with me but put up a good argument, fair play to you  .

To those who just sneered and/or thought Covid was all bollocks and so were Lockdowns, fuck off you idiots, and look how many people you killed with your attitude  .

Who said you couldn't make a leaving speech then? 

Oh... I was wondering where WW went. What a dramatic exit lol.

[mr.bluesky]

Oh... I was wondering where WW went. What a dramatic exit lol.

Like the rules say if your going to leave just log off and don't be such a drama Queen .Although I have found many of Winkywanky's threads entertaining and factually correct  but no need to leave in a huff because some people disagree with you 

[Thephoenix]

Yes I'm sorry he's gone, although he did go on a bit sometimes and hog some of the posts.
He was always reliable at challenging bigotry, homophobia and other prejudices, and had a good sense of humour.
However, to use the vernacular.....
Rules is rules.
Mods moderate.
He got a cob on and took his ball home.

[Marmalade]

He once told me he felt his place was to maintain a light hearted note.
You could say he strayed from his own doctrine a bit when he started posting long back-to-back posts a tad seriously and obsessively. But anyway R.I.P.

[Marmalade]

If there’s any interest in maintaining the thread, the controversy centres now on ‘gain of function evidence’ and some mention by the military.

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No it’s not 100% proof. The gain of function I understand involves inserting human material into the virus to see how it would work if affecting humans. The main theory is that this can only be done in a lab. However when the covid gain of function component came to light, one dismissive paper challenged the main theory and said it could happen “all the time”. So the theory is maybe not not 100%.

[badsin]

I believe now widely excepted that it came from a lab leak at the Wuhan laboratory. Also that it was circulating months earlier than the CCP would admit to External Link/Members Only

[PepeMAGA]

If there’s any interest in maintaining the thread, the controversy centres now on ‘gain of function evidence’ and some mention by the military.

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No it’s not 100% proof. The gain of function I understand involves inserting human material into the virus to see how it would work if affecting humans. The main theory is that this can only be done in a lab. However when the covid gain of function component came to light, one dismissive paper challenged the main theory and said it could happen “all the time”. So the theory is maybe not not 100%.

Is harder to prove it came from nature than the other way round

[Marmalade]

Is harder to prove it came from nature than the other way round

Correct…

[Ivor Hunch]

I think sometimes it is interesting to look back on an historical debate...  given new evidence, perhaps we should learn that where the science is not settled (and, let's be frank, it never is), we should be a bit less "ulster" in our attitudes to discussion.

[daviemac]

I think sometimes it is interesting to look back on an historical debate...  given new evidence, perhaps we should learn that where the science is not settled (and, let's be frank, it never is), we should be a bit less "ulster" in our attitudes to discussion.

I think it's best some threads are left in the past where they belong, especially one about the origins of the Covid 19 virus.

This thread was over and done with in April 2020 then, because he couldn't start a new thread, it was revived 16 months later by a member who has now left to site because he wasn't allowed to be as controversial as he wanted.

My reply to him at the time. -

What part of "until there is undeniable evidence of where it actually came from, leave the speculation on the origins out?" are you not getting.

I didn't say you'd posted it in the wrong place I said it shouldn't be posted.

Can I ask you why you thought it a good idea to revive this thread now in the current world climate after it hadn't been posted on in 10 months.

Though I have to admit, given which country people blame for the virus (without evidence I might add) I think the current world events are exactly why you have revived it, so be very careful what you post.