Teacher guilty of sexually abusing and murdering adopted baby

[Snagbadjer]

The fear they are going to live with every day is going to make them wish they were dead. That is acceptable in the short term. Mid to long term, open doors, sharp implements, and disinterested guards need to play a role.

[Blackpool Rock]

The fear they are going to live with every day is going to make them wish they were dead. That is acceptable in the short term. Mid to long term, open doors, sharp implements, and disinterested guards need to play a role.

The one that got life was by the news report a self confessed "Drama queen" and that was evident from the live video footage when the police were in hospital, OK I know he'd just heard that the baby had died so anyone would be very emotional but he was a total screaming bitch

He simply won't be able to hack it inside so perhaps he'll try to top himself at some point so i'm guessing he will be on suicide watch although I doubt he has the balls to go through with it 

[DastardlyDick]

The word evil is overused but in this case is spot on.

So sad to see the videos of the lovely child when he was with the foster parents before being adopted.

+1 I started to watch a YT Video about the case - I lasted about 2 minutes when they started going into detail.

[DastardlyDick]

One in the news today just got slotted in Wakefield Prison. So it can happen. The nonce wing must be running out of space in this country. Put them all into the same area and leave them to the wolves is what I say.

Oh it happens alright, but it takes a few years - the days of "oops, I left a door open, I don't know why I forgot about it, it'll  never happen again Guv'nor"  "OK lad, make sure it doesn't" are long gone unfortunately. These day's it's a full on Police Investigation and trial..
Most vulnerable prisoners nonces (not on norma! courtyard excercise) are kept at either HMP Frankland or HMP Wakefield, giving them both the title of "monster mansion"..
The Inmates who do it are usually serving either very long or whole life terms ie little or nothing to lose and fancy being moved to another prison, which is virtually guaranteed, or a psychiatric unit like Broadmoor.

[Snagbadjer]

+1 I started to watch a YT Video about the case - I lasted about 2 minutes when they started going into detail.

The people who signed off on these demons adopting a baby knew they were wrong uns but are part of the "see no evil, hear no evil" cowardly Brit variety. I could take one look at these freaks and tell you they're a danger to kids.

[Doc Holliday]

I could take one look at these freaks and tell you they're a danger to kids.

That's an extraordinary talent. How do you do that?

[Snagbadjer]

That's an extraordinary talent. How do you do that?

By being smarter and more streetwise than you.

[daviemac]

Anthony Russell who killed Huntley was a convicted killer on a whole life term so nothing to lose but a lot of status to gain.

[Blackpool Rock]

That's an extraordinary talent. How do you do that?

He's "Gifted" 

[timsussex]

"Special"

[Doc Holliday]

By being smarter and more streetwise than you.

How smart or streetwise I am is irrelevant and just avoiding answering the question.

I asked how do you do this and not why I apparently can't.

I could take one look at these freaks and tell you they're a danger to kids.

So how many sex offenders have you met and known personally? How many have you identified?

Talk me through what you see when you take one look at these pictures that suggests they are infantophiles?



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[Snagbadjer]

How smart or streetwise I am is irrelevant and just avoiding answering the question.

I asked how do you do this and not why I apparently can't.

So how many sex offenders have you met and known personally? How many have you identified?

Talk me through what you see when you take one look at these pictures that suggests they are infantophiles?



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You're not a happy person.

[Doc Holliday]

You're not a happy person.

Still diverting. I assume therefore it was a false claim?

How about this picture instead?


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Or this one?



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[Snagbadjer]

Nam nam, what's up Doc? Do you look similar to them? Why does it upset you that I can spot a wrong un and you can't?

[daviemac]

What concerns me when reading this is you openly admitting you are prepared to judge people based solely on appearance or a 'feeling'.

Hope you never get asked to serve on a jury.

[Snagbadjer]

What concerns me when reading this is you openly admitting you are prepared to judge people based solely on appearance or a 'feeling'.

Hope you never get asked to serve on a jury.

Isn't that what you do when you see people waving England flags in London?

[finn5555]

He's "Gifted" 

And grifted 

[finn5555]

Anthony Russell who killed Huntley was a convicted killer on a whole life term so nothing to lose but a lot of status to gain.

Probably gives them some godly status with the other prisoners.

I guess when you have nothing to loose with a whole life tariff taking another life doesn’t concern them 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Snagbadjer]

And grifted 

Findog, how are you getting on with the EAS to English Rebecca? Woof woof!

[Doc Holliday]

Nam nam, what's up Doc? Do you look similar to them? Why does it upset you that I can spot a wrong un and you can't?

Yet again you try to divert by giving a flippant answer and making personal negative comments about me ... perhaps that is in the hope I will retaliate?

I can tell you that I have decades of volunteer involvement with child safeguarding and I cannot identify a paedophile just by looking at them. And I have encountered a few. Anyone who has ever attended a safeguarding course will have been told the same ie that physical appearance has no bearing and you should be vary of everyone.

Yet you are still insisting you can do it. So I ask again what is it in the photos that raises your suspicion?

[Snagbadjer]

Yet again you try to divert by giving a flippant answer and making personal negative comments about me ... perhaps that is in the hope I will retaliate?

I can tell you that I have decades of volunteer involvement with child safeguarding and I cannot identify a paedophile just by looking at them. And I have encountered a few. Anyone who has ever attended a safeguarding course will have been told the same ie that physical appearance has no bearing and you should be vary of everyone.

Yet you are still insisting you can do it. So I ask again what is it in the photos that raises your suspicion?

Perhaps you chose the wrong career.

[lewisjones23]

Hope you never get asked to serve on a jury.

I don't know why but I've always had it in my head that if I get called up, they're getting found guilty regardless

[Snagbadjer]

I don't know why but I've always had it in my head that if I get called up, they're getting found guilty regardless

Won't be a thing in the near future. "Clearing the backlog" means getting rid of due process.

[Doc Holliday]

Perhaps you chose the wrong career.

Yet again you avoid the question by talking about me. Why are you doing that?

[Snagbadjer]

Yet again you avoid the question by talking about me. Why are you doing that?

What was the question, kiddo?

[finn5555]

I don't know why but I've always had it in my head that if I get called up, they're getting found guilty regardless

I did jury service for 5 weeks was not fun I can assure you

[daviemac]

Isn't that what you do when you see people waving England flags in London?

What makes you think I judge anyone on appearance or a 'feeling' let alone someone showing patriotism for the country they live in?   

If they are in any way extremists I would make a judgement based on the evidence that shows that.

I learned a long time ago that appearances can be deceptive and only a fool would make a judgement on that alone with no knowledge of facts.

Like I said I hope you don't get called for jury service, with such a bias outlook the defendant would have no chance of a fair trial.

[PepeMAGA]

Sometimes people that are convicted look like weirdos for want of a better word, but a lot of the time they don't either.
Epstein, Bundy, Bill Cosby a few examples with a variety of sex crimes, but perfectly normal looking imo.

[Snagbadjer]

What makes you think I judge anyone on appearance or a 'feeling' let alone someone showing patriotism for the country they live in?   

If they are in any way extremists I would make a judgement based on the evidence that shows that.

I learned a long time ago that appearances can be deceptive and only a fool would make a judgement on that alone with no knowledge of facts.

Like I said I hope you don't get called for jury service, with such a bias outlook the defendant would have no chance of a fair trial.

You're just as biased as me.

[MLawro93]

Hope you never get asked to serve on a jury.

+1

I would imagine there are people like him that do, which is a worry!

[Snagbadjer]

+1

I would imagine there are people like him that do, which is a worry!

If you stood trial for being a wet wipe, I assure you I'd give you a fair hearing.

[Snagbadjer]

Just to confirm, you guys would be happy to leave your kids alone with a "man" who looked like this?

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[MLawro93]

If you stood trial for being a wet wipe, I assure you I'd give you a fair hearing.

Okay buddy 

[Snagbadjer]

Okay buddy 

The evidence might be a bit too much for your defence to overcome, unfortunately.

[Doc Holliday]

What was the question, kiddo?

Strange feeling of deja vu 

Do you think being deliberately facetious is going to wind me up and annoy me?

Just to confirm, you guys would be happy to leave your kids alone with a "man" who looked like this?

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Great we are making progress. You have rejected my photos and chosen a Varley one of your own. That's fine. So what do you see in the photo that suggests he is a sex offender?

[daviemac]

You're just as biased as me.

Biased how? because I believe English people should be allowed to display their national flag as a sign of pride in their country? unless of course they are extremists and are using it to further extremist views as that would be a misusing it.

Pleased you've admitted to being bias, as a result you've lost any credibility you had.

[Snagbadjer]

Doc, would you leave your kids alone with the "man" in that photo?

[Doc Holliday]

Doc, would you leave your kids alone with the "man" in that photo?

You mean with someone wearing a Jurassic Park T shirt? That alone wouldn't affect my decision. I assume you have no experience with children, in particular any of your own?

So when you identify sex offenders with 'one look' it is based on how they are dressed?

[diver ted]

Snagbadjer
Your most recent comments seem to be attracting some oppobrium here.

You can and do say that the convicted person here (a child sexual abuser and murderer) should not have broken the law. This is easy to agree with.
You can and do say that other inmates should mete out some barbaric physical justice due to the nature of the crime committed.
I can't agree with this - it means you are advocating breaking the law when you subjectively determine it is merited.

With some horror which I am sure you will share - that second part has been used by people convicted of similarly horrific crimes in their defence where they have subjectively determined their actions were merited in some way or another.
Inadvertently you would then find yourself in mental alignment with these offenders - something I am sure you would not want.

Whilst the darker emotional part of our minds may wish for such a thing to happen, the rational parts make us realise that it should not.
It is contradictory to espouse unlawful violence to be carried out on someone in these circumstances - even those convicted of the most heinous of crimes.
If people are dissatisfied with the punishments available within our justice system, advocating for it to change would be the best way forwards.

Finally to your comments regarding your ability to judge people's appearance and determine their proclivity towards offending of this nature.
Your initial comment was met with some humour and a little consternation.
It does have some real life impact though as we live in a society where some may make negative judgements on others based on race, gender, religion, nationality, age etc. 

It seems there have been a number of opportunities to reduce any concern but you have responded with deflection
I don't know why you would do that but I ask if things are currently okay with you?

I'm suggesting a couple of outcomes here... (I am sure others will be suggested!)
 

You could say...
I made a lighthearted comment - it's not what I truly believe - sorry it's been taken that way - can we move on?
or
You could say...
I meant the comment - I do believe I can judge people solely on their physical appearance.
I have some prejudices that I am open about on this forum.

You may decide to make no further comment here as well.

Finally, thank you for your reviews - they are detailed, informative and written in a very straightforward manner hence my question above as to how you currently are?
DT

[Snagbadjer]

Biased how? because I believe English people should be allowed to display their national flag as a sign of pride in their country? unless of course they are extremists and are using it to further extremist views as that would be a misusing it.

Pleased you've admitted to being bias, as a result you've lost any credibility you had.

Nothing to admit. Everyone is biased. Even you.

[Snagbadjer]

You mean with someone wearing a Jurassic Park T shirt? That alone wouldn't affect my decision. I assume you have no experience with children, in particular any of your own?

So when you identify sex offenders with 'one look' it is based on how they are dressed?

So you have "safeguarding" experience but would feel safe leaving your kids alone with this man. Got it.

[Snagbadjer]

Snagbadjer
Your most recent comments seem to be attracting some oppobrium here.

You can and do say that the convicted person here (a child sexual abuser and murderer) should not have broken the law. This is easy to agree with.
You can and do say that other inmates should mete out some barbaric physical justice due to the nature of the crime committed.
I can't agree with this - it means you are advocating breaking the law when you subjectively determine it is merited.

With some horror which I am sure you will share - that second part has been used by people convicted of similarly horrific crimes in their defence where they have subjectively determined their actions were merited in some way or another.
Inadvertently you would then find yourself in mental alignment with these offenders - something I am sure you would not want.

Whilst the darker emotional part of our minds may wish for such a thing to happen, the rational parts make us realise that it should not.
It is contradictory to espouse unlawful violence to be carried out on someone in these circumstances - even those convicted of the most heinous of crimes.
If people are dissatisfied with the punishments available within our justice system, advocating for it to change would be the best way forwards.

Finally to your comments regarding your ability to judge people's appearance and determine their proclivity towards offending of this nature.
Your initial comment was met with some humour and a little consternation.
It does have some real life impact though as we live in a society where some may make negative judgements on others based on race, gender, religion, nationality, age etc. 

It seems there have been a number of opportunities to reduce any concern but you have responded with deflection
I don't know why you would do that but I ask if things are currently okay with you?

I'm suggesting a couple of outcomes here... (I am sure others will be suggested!)
 

You could say...
I made a lighthearted comment - it's not what I truly believe - sorry it's been taken that way - can we move on?
or
You could say...
I meant the comment - I do believe I can judge people solely on their physical appearance.
I have some prejudices that I am open about on this forum.

You may decide to make no further comment here as well.

Finally, thank you for your reviews - they are detailed, informative and written in a very straightforward manner hence my question above as to how you currently are?
DT

You talk about people's "mental alignment" with paedophile child killers and expect a response to your mini essay?

Here it is: do you like dogs? You "mentally align" with Adolf Hitler.

Did you also make a note of the numerous other members who made similar comments re these monsters having an accident in prison? I saw quite a few. Curiously, you didn't mention them?

[Doc Holliday]

So you have "safeguarding" experience but would feel safe leaving your kids alone with this man. Got it.

Parents are generally very cautious about who they leave their children alone with. When carrying out an individual risk assessment a Jurassic Park T shirt is unlikely to be a deciding factor. Do you see something else in the photos that is suggestive of a sex offender that I cannot see?

With the the proviso that this is an anonymous online forum and the 'persona' you are presenting in your Off Topic contributions may be totally false (though I don't think it is) your posts raise many more red flags, than a man in a Jurassic Park shirt.

So do you have an 'end game' here?

[Doc Holliday]

You talk about people's "mental alignment" with paedophile child killers and expect a response to your mini essay?

Here it is: do you like dogs? You "mentally align" with Adolf Hitler.

Did you also make a note of the numerous other members who made similar comments re these monsters having an accident in prison? I saw quite a few. Curiously, you didn't mention them?

You do realise that his post was about being concerned with regard to your well being?

[Snagbadjer]

Parents are generally very cautious about who they leave their children alone with. When carrying out an individual risk assessment a Jurassic Park T shirt is unlikely to be a deciding factor. Do you see something else in the photos that is suggestive of a sex offender that I cannot see?

With the the proviso that this is an anonymous online forum and the 'persona' you are presenting in your Off Topic contributions may be totally false (though I don't think it is) your posts raise many more red flags, than a man in a Jurassic Park shirt.

So do you have an 'end game' here?

What do you think my "end game" could be? Any hypotheses, smart guy?

[Doc Holliday]

What do you think my "end game" could be? Any hypotheses, smart guy?

I am not that smart 

You could take a deep breath and pause and take stock of your position? You have made around 50 posts today is that healthy?

The Politics thread (and associated political crossover threads) have become excessively toxic in recent months. You seem to have got drawn in this environment fairly recently and five days ago realised it was probably a mistake?

Fair enough. I can't resist either. It's actually ruined the vibe on here. I will bow out from the politics and wish all a good week!

You didn't. That's a fair point.

I'm bowing out of the politics discussions, gents. Wish you all a good week!

You could reset the clock five days and stick with your own sound advice?

Unlike myself,  your contribution to the punting sections of UKP is immense and valuable. Why risk that by potentially being banned due to your posts in Politics etc. Stick with what you do best.

I apologise for pursuing you in this thread, but the subject matter is both serious and should not be tainted by the 'ruined vibe' you detected and acknowledged five days ago. This particular case is also very local for me. I will now withdraw.
 
Perhaps another tactical withdrawal on your part and this time stick with your own advice? Don't get drawn back in. There are no winners in the Political discussion only potential losers when accounts get banned 

[Iloveoral]

This thread need calming down please.
Some of the comments are to far.

[daviemac]

Nothing to admit. Everyone is biased. Even you.

I'm going to withdraw from this 'debate' with you referencing Mark Twain's “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”. 

[Snagbadjer]

I'm going to withdraw from this 'debate' with you referencing Mark Twain's “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”. 

You, sir, are no Mark Twain. I accept your capitulation.

[Snagbadjer]

I am not that smart 

You could take a deep breath and pause and take stock of your position? You have made around 50 posts today is that healthy?

The Politics thread (and associated political crossover threads) have become excessively toxic in recent months. You seem to have got drawn in this environment fairly recently and five days ago realised it was probably a mistake?

You could reset the clock five days and stick with your own sound advice?

Unlike myself,  your contribution to the punting sections of UKP is immense and valuable. Why risk that by potentially being banned due to your posts in Politics etc. Stick with what you do best.

I apologise for pursuing you in this thread, but the subject matter is both serious and should not be tainted by the 'ruined vibe' you detected and acknowledged five days ago. This particular case is also very local for me. I will now withdraw.
 
Perhaps another tactical withdrawal on your part and this time stick with your own advice? Don't get drawn back in. There are no winners in the Political discussion only potential losers when accounts get banned 

I could do that, Doc. Or I could stick around and exercise my freedom of speech. I know you need the last word, which is why you are trying to angle things to me leaving the "debate." I don't believe I will allow you to have it at this stage.