Author Topic: Gas / Electricity standing charges  (Read 10689 times)

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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Its supposed to be to pay for the supply network and billing and the like..

But as an old mate of mine once said "If they don't get you by the left bollock, they'll get you by the right!"..

Online myothernameis

Today received an email from my energy provider, telling me my energy costs are come down, so good news, until

You look at the new prices, energy costs down, standing charges up, so why not just freeze the standing charge

It seems  Octopus Energy are the latest company to remove all standing charges, now lets hope the rest do the same

Offline lostandfound

Today received an email from my energy provider, telling me my energy costs are come down, so good news, until

You look at the new prices, energy costs down, standing charges up, so why not just freeze the standing charge

It seems  Octopus Energy are the latest company to remove all standing charges, now lets hope the rest do the same

Yes - my standing charge will be going up by > 14%

The standing charge is a bin into which they chuck the cost of all the green energy initiatives - which are very expensive - and things like bailing out all of the scam energy companies which went bust and only existed because of the incompetence of the govt regulator Ofgem.

You can just hear the politicians sat around after a heavy alcohol fuelled lunch ... "Oh, there's this fuck up we made on project whatever, and it's going to cost £10 billion to fix it, OMG ... let's just whack it on to the standing charge ... noone will notice!"

Online RandomGuy99

Today received an email from my energy provider, telling me my energy costs are come down, so good news, until

You look at the new prices, energy costs down, standing charges up, so why not just freeze the standing charge

It seems  Octopus Energy are the latest company to remove all standing charges, now lets hope the rest do the same
All the energy companies have to charge the standing charge. I recently got a quote from Octopus and their quote does include the standing charge.

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Online RandomGuy99

Octopus might have removed the exit fees, which you have to pay if you want to exit the contract early to move to another energy company.

Offline Blackpool Rock

Yes if a company removed all standing charge then people would be tearing their hand off myself included, I did see 1 deal with a reduced standing charge but they then increased the unit cost of energy so gave with 1 hand then robbed it back with the other  :thumbsdown:

Online RandomGuy99

Octopus might have removed the exit fees, which you have to pay if you want to exit the contract early to move to another energy company.
The electricity standing charge is 3 times what I have been paying.

Offline petermisc

All the energy companies have to charge the standing charge. I recently got a quote from Octopus and their quote does include the standing charge.
Agreed that Octopus charge a standing charge, but their rates are lower than that set by Ofgem.

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Quote
We also kept standing charges 4% lower than the price cap for customers on Flexible Octopus, and chose not to increase them at all with the October 2023 price cap.

Offline WASA38

All the energy companies have to charge the standing charge. I recently got a quote from Octopus and their quote does include the standing charge.

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Bugger, that SC for electricity sounds a bit heavy. My charge ( Shell Energy/Octopus) is 48 39 p/day , up from 42.11.

Costs in  p/kWh are 31.50 (37.18) day rate, 13.217 (15,599) night rate for electricity and 5.963 (7.309) for gas.
Gas standing charge 28.95 (27.47) p/day.

Previous figures in parentheses

They reckon my annual bill will fall by £165.

Online RandomGuy99

Bugger, that SC for electricity sounds a bit heavy. My charge ( Shell Energy/Octopus) is 48 39 p/day , up from 42.11.

Costs in  p/kWh are 31.50 (37.18) day rate, 13.217 (15,599) night rate for electricity and 5.963 (7.309) for gas.
Gas standing charge 28.95 (27.47) p/day.

Previous figures in parentheses

They reckon my annual bill will fall by £165.
Those are the current Octopus standing charges.

Offline petermisc

Bugger, that SC for electricity sounds a bit heavy. My charge ( Shell Energy/Octopus) is 48 39 p/day , up from 42.11.
Standing charges vary significantly by region, being higher in areas with lower population densities (such as northern England, Wales and Scotland).  So your standing charges may be higher or lower than another posters, depending on which regions you are in.

Online myothernameis

Bugger, that SC for electricity sounds a bit heavy. My charge ( Shell Energy/Octopus) is 48 39 p/day , up from 42.11.

Costs in  p/kWh are 31.50 (37.18) day rate, 13.217 (15,599) night rate for electricity and 5.963 (7.309) for gas.

Lucky you, my electric standing charge, from 69.20p to 68.96p
Costs in  p/kWh all day are 29.640 to 25.235p

Offline Blackpool Rock

So they've taken over 12 months to consult and review and have now announced a proposal that energy firms may have to offer a tariff with no standing charge but there's no final decisions here and they need to do another consultation about it all, so what the fuck have they been doing all this time  :unknown:
Energy firms can already offer a tariff with no standing charge and higher unit rates if they want to so it doesn't look like anything has changed  :dash:
I can see this whole thing just ending up a massive fudge where a standing charge tariff then charges a really high rate for the 1st few units of energy a day at which point they have recouped the standing charge  :dash:

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Offline lillythesavage

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So they've taken over 12 months to consult and review and have now announced a proposal that energy firms may have to offer a tariff with no standing charge but there's no final decisions here and they need to do another consultation about it all, so what the fuck have they been doing all this time  :unknown:
Energy firms can already offer a tariff with no standing charge and higher unit rates if they want to so it doesn't look like anything has changed  :dash:
I can see this whole thing just ending up a massive fudge where a standing charge tariff then charges a really high rate for the 1st few units of energy a day at which point they have recouped the standing charge  :dash:

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Was there ever a result to the ofgem investigation into the increase in standing charges in your original post ?

The increase is to cover profits from the green bashing us into using less  :lol:, do you really think any of them, Govt or Private companies have any interest in protecting people ?

If they do eventually bring this in it is up to the customer to opt in, and they will be to blame if it costs them more.  :unknown:

In part, we are financing these private companies, the ones we were told would bring competition and reduced costs to the market  :lol:, by paying upfront and letting them sit on our excess payments.

Profit is the only consideration.

It seems our green renewable energy is destroyed by a bit of wind and rain  :lol:, guess who will be paying for this " miscalculation " in the long run.  :lol:
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Offline lostandfound

Increased standing charges and high electricity prices in general will help pay the cost of our massive infrastructure expansion - Grid, Solar, Wind Turbines - "The green transition".

It is an experiment on a colossal scale which will crowd in private sector investment at a multiple of what the government puts in because the government guarantees that it will be profitable for them.

Of course it is not guaranteed that it will be cost effective for consumers - rather the reverse - we have to pay whatever it takes to make it profitable for investors.

Offline hullad

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I read this and I thought another cop out by the regulator, its just got enough teeth.

The government needs to be involved with this now and impose there power on what is clearly an industry rip off. The standing charges need to go ASAP and need to be replaced by the cost of transmission moved on to usage. Then the bigger the usage the more you pay towards the cost instead every user now pays the same which is hardly fair. I can of understand why this is difficult to implement and I shall certainly be raising this with my MP very soon .

Due at hers for drinks next weekend will raise it 

Offline lostandfound

The government needs to be involved with this now and impose there power on what is clearly an industry rip off. The standing charges need to go ASAP and need to be replaced by the cost of transmission moved on to usage. Then the bigger the usage the more you pay towards the cost instead every user now pays the same which is hardly fair. I can of understand why this is difficult to implement and I shall certainly be raising this with my MP very soon .

Due at hers for drinks next weekend will raise it

Whilst I agree with this analysis, I'm slightly surprised to see it from you, because the argument I've heard advanced against this is that it would penalise those who have no choice but to use more electricity, disproportionately the less well off such as low income families?

Offline DastardlyDick

I was also under the impression the standing charge also included paying for meter readings, I've not had mine read for over three years!
If that's the case, then people with Smart Meters should get a bit off their bill - no need for readings with those.

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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Hummm ..  Wind fuck all today as with Solar the nuke output is still very low so good old Gas that Fossil fuel they don't want us to have - the who energy industry is fucked:(

Never mind standing charges. If we were to have a 1963 style winter !  God help us..

Offline WASA38

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Hummm ..  Wind fuck all today as with Solar the nuke output is still very low so good old Gas that Fossil fuel they don't want us to have - the who energy industry is fucked:(

Never mind standing charges. If we were to have a 1963 style winter !  God help us..

True - and solar panels generate absolutely zilch when covered with snow.

Offline Blackpool Rock

Possibly the best thread for this rather than starting a new one as the thread had progressed onto energy generation, anyway Europe's biggest battery farm is being built in South Lanarkshire
Some people on here play dumb and claim not to get it when i've posted about capturing the excess renewable energy for later use when demand is high or the wind isn't blowing much etc
Well this looks to be the 1st stage in the future of capturing excess renewable energy  :hi:

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Offline PilotMan

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Possibly the best thread for this rather than starting a new one as the thread had progressed onto energy generation, anyway Europe's biggest battery farm is being built in South Lanarkshire
Some people on here play dumb and claim not to get it when i've posted about capturing the excess renewable energy for later use when demand is high or the wind isn't blowing much etc
Well this looks to be the 1st stage in the future of capturing excess renewable energy  :hi:

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Some reviews and experts are advising having batteries as part of your home energy set up in preference to solar. You buy energy at night and top up your batteries when it's really cheap and use it during the day and / or sell it back for more than you paid.


Offline Blackpool Rock

Some reviews and experts are advising having batteries as part of your home energy set up in preference to solar. You buy energy at night and top up your batteries when it's really cheap and use it during the day and / or sell it back for more than you paid.
I know people who got solar and battery storage when they bought an EV, that's basically what they do and charge the car up; run the washing machine etc during the night when it's cheap and make sure the batteries are fully charged come the morning then top up with solar during the day while selling it back at a profit

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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Sod renewables, small scale Nuclear is the way forward.

The national grid was close to falling over tonight they were desperate for 1.3 G watts..

Theres only so many customers they can ask to reduce consumption...

Offline WASA38

Some reviews and experts are advising having batteries as part of your home energy set up in preference to solar. You buy energy at night and top up your batteries when it's really cheap and use it during the day and / or sell it back for more than you paid.

Better still to have solar as well as batteries and  to top up the batteries at night if and as necessary

i pay 5.5p/kWh at night as against  35p/kWh  daytime and last month my night : day usage ratio was  about 5:1 making the overall rate just 10.8p/kWh.

Factor in FIT payments and I'm in the black. 

Gas is my main source of energy and that's another story.

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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Sod renewables, small scale Nuclear is the way forward.

The national grid was close to falling over tonight they were desperate for 1.3 G watts..

Theres only so many customers they can ask to reduce consumption...


This - is how stupid the bloody system is!..

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Offline Blackpool Rock


This - is how stupid the bloody system is!..

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The whole way in which electricity is paid for is wrong and we need to break the link between gas prices and electricity prices, this article is a couple of years old but the way electricity is priced is still the same.
Currently electricity generators bid to supply the electricity and the cheapest bids are accepted until all of the demand is met, renewable bids are accepted 1st as they are the cheapest form of electricity generation and the last to be accepted is typically expensive gas generation.

However everyone gets paid at the highest bid price  :dash:

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The only way to actually break this link is to go 100% renewable / nuclear combined with sufficient storage like the article I previously posted  :thumbsup:

Offline WASA38

Possibly the best thread for this rather than starting a new one as the thread had progressed onto energy generation, anyway Europe's biggest battery farm is being built in South Lanarkshire
Some people on here play dumb and claim not to get it when i've posted about capturing the excess renewable energy for later use when demand is high or the wind isn't blowing much etc
Well this looks to be the 1st stage in the future of capturing excess renewable energy  :hi:

External Link/Members Only

Excellent news (there's not much of that around at the moment).

Pity there is no information in the article on the type of batteries to be installed. According to an earlier article (External Link/Members Only ) the batteries might be sodium-ion or electrolyte flow types rather than lithium. Safer, and mass (weight) is obviously not of concern.


Offline PilotMan

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Better still to have solar as well as batteries and  to top up the batteries at night if and as necessary

i pay 5.5p/kWh at night as against  35p/kWh  daytime and last month my night : day usage ratio was  about 5:1 making the overall rate just 10.8p/kWh.

Factor in FIT payments and I'm in the black. 

Gas is my main source of energy and that's another story.

I'm going to be fitting solar as well as batteries. If I had to choose one or the other, I would go with batteries.

I've also been seeing lots of positive stuff about small scale discrete wind turbines.

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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The whole way in which electricity is paid for is wrong and we need to break the link between gas prices and electricity prices, this article is a couple of years old but the way electricity is priced is still the same.
Currently electricity generators bid to supply the electricity and the cheapest bids are accepted until all of the demand is met, renewable bids are accepted 1st as they are the cheapest form of electricity generation and the last to be accepted is typically expensive gas generation.

However everyone gets paid at the highest bid price  :dash:

External Link/Members Only.

The only way to actually break this link is to go 100% renewable / nuclear combined with sufficient storage like the article I previously posted  :thumbsup:

Well that ain't going to happen is it now?.

Defies logic do renewables..

And seeing what they are not doing with Nuclear!. Odd that France mamaged it isnt it now?..

Offline timsussex

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8 years ago the place where I worked installed solar panels feeding excess back into the grid; I was chatting to the engineer installing/setting it up
He reckoned that within 5 years you would be able to buy a cheap (£500) suitcase sized battery pack that would store enough electricity for a home to run overnight on the electricity stored from solar in the day

while his timescale/price has proved to be optimistic I still think that will be the gamechanger. Some people are using EVs to do some of that but not enough to be total self sufficient

Offline PilotMan

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8 years ago the place where I worked installed solar panels feeding excess back into the grid; I was chatting to the engineer installing/setting it up
He reckoned that within 5 years you would be able to buy a cheap (£500) suitcase sized battery pack that would store enough electricity for a home to run overnight on the electricity stored from solar in the day

while his timescale/price has proved to be optimistic I still think that will be the gamechanger. Some people are using EVs to do some of that but not enough to be total self sufficient

That might not be too far from reality. Overnight, most households use diddly squat electricity, so you would only need a small battery.

The reverse is a better use of a battery. You don't use solar, but you download electricity at night when the rate is really cheap, then use it during the day. In some instances you can sell electricity back at peak hours, for more than you paid for it.

Offline timsussex

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That might not be too far from reality. Overnight, most households use diddly squat electricity, so you would only need a small battery.

The reverse is a better use of a battery. You don't use solar, but you download electricity at night when the rate is really cheap, then use it during the day. In some instances you can sell electricity back at peak hours, for more than you paid for it.

Overnight is too vague a term
I'm sitting at 5 pm with lights on and they will stay on for the next 7 hours, watching TV, computer,  about to cook my dinner on my electric cooker, cups of tea  etc etc - thats typical for at least 4 months of the year and if you are out at work form 9-5 then most of your usuage is in the evening throughout the year
Today was nice and sunny and I could have generated enough electricity to last me overnight

Just checked and I used 2100 kWhrs last year costing me £850
So if I had a large enough store I would only need to generate 6kWhrs a day solar for "free"  electricity Of course I would have to invest in solar panels (which are available at reasonable cost) and a large enough battery which isnt yet available

Offline m4rmite

Overnight is too vague a term
I'm sitting at 5 pm with lights on and they will stay on for the next 7 hours, watching TV, computer,  about to cook my dinner on my electric cooker, cups of tea  etc etc - thats typical for at least 4 months of the year and if you are out at work form 9-5 then most of your usuage is in the evening throughout the year
Today was nice and sunny and I could have generated enough electricity to last me overnight

Just checked and I used 2100 kWhrs last year costing me £850
So if I had a large enough store I would only need to generate 6kWhrs a day solar for "free"  electricity Of course I would have to invest in solar panels (which are available at reasonable cost) and a large enough battery which isnt yet available
Givenergy do a 13.5kwh battery

Offline berksboy

8 years ago the place where I worked installed solar panels feeding excess back into the grid; I was chatting to the engineer installing/setting it up
He reckoned that within 5 years you would be able to buy a cheap (£500) suitcase sized battery pack that would store enough electricity for a home to run overnight on the electricity stored from solar in the day

while his timescale/price has proved to be optimistic I still think that will be the gamechanger. Some people are using EVs to do some of that but not enough to be total self sufficient

My other house in Africa  runs 90 % of the time just off its solar / battery packs as the local mains electricity is so bad.

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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The real issue with renewables is that the sun don't shine at night, and Solar isnt that much cop this time of year, and under certian mainly high pressure conditions the wind don't blow over the country and as the  demand can be up to around 45 G/Watts.

That lack of wind can go on for several days dunkenfeld they call it in Germany so that 40 odd GW comes from Gas some interconnects and Nuclear, and we havent got that much of it, so you still have to  keep your Gas stations around which are Fossill, Biomas are wood burners, and CO2 producers,so where is this leading us to Carbon free?.

It isnt, and the demand may rise with EV's and the like. Also Gas for domestic heating will be around  for a time yet as heat pumps pull quite a bit of leccy so what we really need is Carbon free small scale Nuclear.

Thats the way forward but that twat Milliband can't see that! not a surprise with the bunch of clowns playing with the country...

Offline berksboy

Could heat pumps work for most homes here ? Dont they also make a fair bit of noise ?

Offline Blackpool Rock

The real issue with renewables is that the sun don't shine at night, and Solar isnt that much cop this time of year, and under certian mainly high pressure conditions the wind don't blow over the country and as the  demand can be up to around 45 G/Watts.

That lack of wind can go on for several days dunkenfeld they call it in Germany so that 40 odd GW comes from Gas some interconnects and Nuclear, and we havent got that much of it, so you still have to  keep your Gas stations around which are Fossill, Biomas are wood burners, and CO2 producers,so where is this leading us to Carbon free?.

It isnt, and the demand may rise with EV's and the like. Also Gas for domestic heating will be around  for a time yet as heat pumps pull quite a bit of leccy so what we really need is Carbon free small scale Nuclear.

Thats the way forward but that twat Milliband can't see that! not a surprise with the bunch of clowns playing with the country...
Which is why you need to capture and store the excess when it's possible to generate it, just like the article I previously linked to, seriously you must be choosing not to understand it  :unknown:  :dash:

Offline Blackpool Rock

Could heat pumps work for most homes here ? Dont they also make a fair bit of noise ?
I know someone with a new build and ground source heat pump but i've never heard it, can't say about an air source one though.
It's easier for new builds and as usual retro fitting is harder and more expensive, part of the issue though with a heat pump is that you need to use electricity to power it and if you're getting that from the grid then a % will be coming from gas.

The other issue here is the cost of the heat pumps to purchase and then if you factor in that a gas boiler costs around 1/4 or 1/3 to run per KW/h compared to electricity and the fact that you need to use electricity to power the heat pump and suddenly it isn't any cheaper to run  :thumbsdown:

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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Which is why you need to capture and store the excess when it's possible to generate it, just like the article I previously linked to, seriously you must be choosing not to understand it  :unknown:  :dash:

Except to store it on a nationwide scale will require gigga watt capable batteries!

Do remember that electricity powers industries not just homes..

So we've just had a few dark piss poor solar days and no wind anywhere it has happened, how do you propose storing days of power at the national level let alone at home?..


I do understand it, on an engineering basis..

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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Now as strange as it might seem i have got a heat pump here already, its an air conditioner!, it does work in reverse but once the air outside goes below freezing it spends a lot of time de freezing itself using leccy and giving sod all heat output;!..

And even odder.. Solar panels are to be fixed up it for me is a DIY job they arent that expensive but its not a National scale answer..
« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 11:52:38 pm by Watts.E.Dunn »

Offline Blackpool Rock

Except to store it on a nationwide scale will require gigga watt capable batteries!

Do remember that electricity powers industries not just homes..

So we've just had a few dark piss poor solar days and no wind anywhere it has happened, how do you propose storing days of power at the national level let alone at home?..


I do understand it, on an engineering basis..
Then you will understand that these things therefore need to be built on a larger scale to satisfy the required demand.
You seem to have a very negative and pessimistic way of looking at things which isn't good when it involves future planning, if that view was taken on other things then nothing would have ever happened.
National grids for gas and electricity wouldn't exist and nor would a railway network, roads would still be muddy tracks as it would be deemed there were too many to tarmac

The other point i've historically made is that if you properly equip all new build houses and factories etc so that they are at least part way self sufficient in their energy and resource needs then you don't need so much massive national infrastructure.
If all new build structures have ground source heating along with solar panels and a decent capacity of battery storage then it removes a lot of the demand on the national network, likewise if water is captured for flushing toilets etc it reduced the need / demand to build new reservoirs

What we need is more Victorian style grand thinking about what IS possible not the head down depressive thinking of the 1970's where everyone muddles through saying "it'll do"

Offline PilotMan

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Overnight is too vague a term

After you've gone to bed. According to a YouGov poll, for the average Brit that's between 10-11PM.

Most households aren't using much electricity after they've gone to bed.

Offline PilotMan

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The other point i've historically made is that if you properly equip all new build houses and factories etc so that they are at least part way self sufficient in their energy and resource needs then you don't need so much massive national infrastructure.
If all new build structures have ground source heating along with solar panels and a decent capacity of battery storage then it removes a lot of the demand on the national network,



Along with much higher minimum standards of insulation, this is part of the process when planning for new commercial and residential properties.

My new house will have have all of the above (air source) and I'm planning to be energy positive across the year, but neutral as a minimum.

Ground source is popular in the Nordics and is often built as a shared facility, with a single large installation supporting multiple homes, just as a road for a housing estate is a shared facility.

I investigated ground source heating, but the cost involved for a single dwelling vs the benefits over air source didn't stack up.

Offline PilotMan

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Could heat pumps work for most homes here ? Dont they also make a fair bit of noise ?

For a heat pump to work, you need a high standard of insulation as they don't pump out as much heat as a gas boiler. Older houses (even from just a decade or so ago) generally aren't up to the required standard of insulation.

The current heat pumps on sale are almost silent. I have a four year old gas boiler in my house now, and that's noisy.

Heat pumps are installed outside, so you have zero noise inside the house.

Offline berksboy

Thanks , so as i thought as a retro fit they are a bit of a no go.

Online RandomGuy99

Thanks , so as i thought as a retro fit they are a bit of a no go.
For heat pumps to work with an older house you might need to update insulation, windows, doors, radiators, piping to the radiators. Getting an assessment done would be the first step in understanding if your property can work well with a heat pump.

Offline PilotMan

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For heat pumps to work with an older house you might need to update insulation, windows, doors, radiators, piping to the radiators. Getting an assessment done would be the first step in understanding if your property can work well with a heat pump.

As a plan to do all the above just on its own, is difficult to make it stack up financially. If however you were doing a refurb and stripping back walls / floors etc, it can stack up and make sense, especially if it's your own property.

Online Watts.E.Dunn

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Then you will understand that these things therefore need to be built on a larger scale to satisfy the required demand.
You seem to have a very negative and pessimistic way of looking at things which isn't good when it involves future planning, if that view was taken on other things then nothing would have ever happened.
National grids for gas and electricity wouldn't exist and nor would a railway network, roads would still be muddy tracks as it would be deemed there were too many to tarmac

The other point i've historically made is that if you properly equip all new build houses and factories etc so that they are at least part way self sufficient in their energy and resource needs then you don't need so much massive national infrastructure.
If all new build structures have ground source heating along with solar panels and a decent capacity of battery storage then it removes a lot of the demand on the national network, likewise if water is captured for flushing toilets etc it reduced the need / demand to build new reservoirs

What we need is more Victorian style grand thinking about what IS possible not the head down depressive thinking of the 1970's where everyone muddles through saying "it'll do"

BR I dont have a negative outlook on this at all, just a real world engineering one.

Right now (19:20) the UK demand is 45 GW of that Solar is zilch and the wind is 2.4 W GW Nuclear is 4.5 GW and the missing is being filled in with interconnectors and Gas at some 24.1 GW

So if we had next to no wind, has happened, we could cover the UK with Solar panels and with Wind turbines which if no wind wouldnt go so we are still using fossill and biomass which are CO 2 producers.

So OK to still use Gas for leccy production and central heating? let alone industrial demand.

That is not the way to go for Carbon nutral or free electriclty power supply. You can talk about storage but have you calculated the ammount of storage on a national supply basis you would need evan if you could generate that from Renewables thats a practially impossible ammount of storage.

Remember also what are you to do with the Gas fossil for UK central heating and EV vehicles?.

OK fine if its the summer months and you have a starage battery thats fine but at this time of year?.

How are you to power the trains a Azuma train set on the east cost main line is some 8 megawatt demand

Let alone the electric vehcile deman ands the leccy for heat punps.

The country that has got this right is France with its carbon free nuclear and hydro.

The country thats fucked it up  is Germany where that stupid merkel bint appeased the greens and shut to nukes down and relaced that shortage with Lignate coal one of the woprks CO 2 polluters out so they depenad on France to help them out as do we for as mcuh as we can get ion the interconnecor system .

Fine with new builds that is a step in the right direction but what about exuisting housing a lot of bloody expense to upgrage terrace houses with 9 inch walls i know someone who'ds got one..

Wot we need is relialble Nuclear but large scale is fucking expensive and  Fusion is always just round the corner isnt it like a bloody unicorn.

I'd be a very much happier man if Rolls-Royce was churning out factory made fission say 300 to 400 Megawat reactors.

That would replace the useless renewables with depedable energy....

Offline Blackpool Rock

Out of the box thinking for those with a positive "can do" approach, electricity cables to be run from Morocco where solar and wind generation is more reliable than here in the UK.
Helps get around the nay sayers who constantly whine that the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine
PS they also have battery storage  ;)

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