Gas / Electricity standing charges

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Out of the box thinking for those with a positive "can do" approach, electricity cables to be run from Morocco where solar and wind generation is more reliable than here in the UK.
Helps get around the nay sayers who constantly whine that the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine
PS they also have battery storage 

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Yes they say 3.6 GW that isnt enough, Also it will be vunerable to any ruski / chinkie trawler that wants to cause havoc off the coast;(.

Do bear in mind that we need to eliomate CO 2 production. Gas that is used to heat IIRC 75 odd percnet of uk homes thats the scale needed.

Its even if we got on right now with SNR's it'd still take some time to get the capacity we'd need!....

[WASA38]

Out of the box thinking for those with a positive "can do" approach, electricity cables to be run from Morocco where solar and wind generation is more reliable than here in the UK.
Helps get around the nay sayers who constantly whine that the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine
PS they also have battery storage 

External Link/Members Only

Very interesting but it begs the question; if it feasible financially to shift 3.6 GW a couple of thousand kilometers under the sea from Morocco to the UK why on earth is not possible to shift much less energy from North Sea wind farms to London about 100 km under the sea instead of vandalising beautiful countryside with lines of pylons ? Even Scotland/Shetland's potential surplus is nearer to London by sea than Morocco's.

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes they say 3.6 GW that isnt enough, Also it will be vunerable to any ruski / chinkie trawler that wants to cause havoc off the coast;(.

Do bear in mind that we need to eliomate CO 2 production. Gas that is used to heat IIRC 75 odd percnet of uk homes thats the scale needed.

Its even if we got on right now with SNR's it'd still take some time to get the capacity we'd need!....

Oh FFS I give up though I recall saying that previously 

Has anyone said it's enough and will / should be the countries only source of power 
Do you understand the concept of having an overall energy strategy that doesn't rely on only 1 source of energy but multiple sources that compliment each other 

You claim not to be negative but all you are giving me are more reasons why we shouldn't do it and presumably better off sitting on out hands and doing nothing 
Seriously i've worked in environments where the underlying atmosphere is negative and downbeat, more often than not it's due to the attitude of a small minority of people who end up dragging everyone else down and it feels like someone constantly has one hand on your shoulder pulling you back.
You remind me of those people - This won't work; that won't work; this will go wrong; it won't last etc etc. Just reasons why nothing will actually work and why nothing can be achieved 
It just ends up sapping all the energy and lifeforce out of you working with people like that 
Thankfully mankind didn't used to think that way otherwise we'd still be waiting to invent the wheel 

[RandomGuy99]

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[berksboy]

I saw a interesting thing on TV a few nights  about how to store a very large amount of elecrtic power for when you need  it , a reservoir ! Duing high demand the water is used to power hydroeletric generators then when there is low depand the water is pumped back up so overall you need less generating power.Now days they are using windpower at night to help refill as well. Could this be of help in storing elecrtic power ? It is used in some parts of the USA.

[PilotMan]

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Although the installation and purchase cost of the heat pump wasn't overly expensive, the work he had done previously retrofitting and bringing the house up to modern insulation standards would have cost a small fortune. They don't mention that cost.

[PilotMan]

I saw a interesting thing on TV a few nights  about how to store a very large amount of elecrtic power for when you need  it , a reservoir ! Duing high demand the water is used to power hydroeletric generators then when there is low depand the water is pumped back up so overall you need less generating power.Now days they are using windpower at night to help refill as well. Could this be of help in storing elecrtic power ? It is used in some parts of the USA.

Do you need a lot of land for that?  If so, the UK is 2.5% the size of the USA, hence why it may not be feasible.

[Blackpool Rock]

I saw a interesting thing on TV a few nights  about how to store a very large amount of elecrtic power for when you need  it , a reservoir ! Duing high demand the water is used to power hydroeletric generators then when there is low depand the water is pumped back up so overall you need less generating power.Now days they are using windpower at night to help refill as well. Could this be of help in storing elecrtic power ? It is used in some parts of the USA.

I've mentioned this previously as an example of how excess energy could be stored for when the wind isn't blowing much and it's not that sunny, obviously it needs to be just 1 of many different storage methods 

[Blackpool Rock]

Do you need a lot of land for that?  If so, the UK is 2.5% the size of the USA, hence why it may not be feasible.

I still think there is a lot of potential for wave / tidal power, the Bristol channel has the 2nd or 3rd largest tidal range in the world and being an island we have a lot of coastline for the size of the land mass

[Doc Holliday]

I saw a interesting thing on TV a few nights  about how to store a very large amount of elecrtic power for when you need  it , a reservoir ! Duing high demand the water is used to power hydroeletric generators then when there is low depand the water is pumped back up so overall you need less generating power.Now days they are using windpower at night to help refill as well. Could this be of help in storing elecrtic power ? It is used in some parts of the USA.

It has been used in North Wales for decades External Link/Members Only

[berksboy]

Thanks  Doc  and BR

[Adoniron]

I still think there is a lot of potential for wave / tidal power, the Bristol channel has the 2nd or 3rd largest tidal range in the world and being an island we have a lot of coastline for the size of the land mass

Tidal power is more reliable than wind but is very, very expensive.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

B Rock! Nill desperandum M8! No not neg, just an engineering POV not politick at all.

As you may have noticed in that articale you referred to the rewnable contribution is somewhat internmittent and fickle.

However we have to look at UK energy as a whole, OK it is in a hole but, now if we want to go carbon nutral it isnt as easy as milliband and co might make it look. We have to replace Gas and that is a big ask as 75% odd of UK homes are using it for cental heating boilers let alone its the major UK electical power generator. Oil is c of course used as can be coal but all CO2 producers.

So what do you replace it with any other sources that can supply that amount requirement?. Now have a look at France OK might not like 'em that much but they have got it right Mainly Nuclear and Hydro.

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Now quite sometime ago they started building Nuclear as they had quite a lot of foresight i have some froggie relations who use Leccy for full house heating as its quite cheap. They didnt have the same attiude as the Greenies do here and in Germany which silly sods have closed their nuclear and are now burning bloody Lignite  a more CO2 and poluting source you'd be hard pressed to find!

They also have a lot of hydro, we don't, we have some as we havent got the bloody Alps like that they have!

Sorry mate there arent any other power sources that can supply the amount of power we get from Gas other then Nuclear and well nuclear as we do not have  the Hydro!, tidal may contribute some but it won't be enough to meet the Gas replacment need. Now you can say well if  we all had heat punps and not everyone can, they produce a lower grade (Temperture) of heat thats to say less than what a gas boiler does so you'll need larger rads and much better insulation, thats going to cost let alone the power to drive them!.

They can and do work in places like Scandinavia as over there they build houses with much better insulation than we do and have done so for a long time as its bloody cold there!

Now i've got a relative who's in a old terrace house, 9 inch brick walls and no gas! they'd give their right arm for that as they have to use leccy and its costing them a small fortune the storage rads they had were quite useless, their looking to line the walls with around 40 to 50 mm celotex backed plasterboard which isnt that easy to implement. Be simpler to knock it all down and rebuild to modern standards like a mate of mine has. Cavitey walls all around and a bloody big cavity full of insuation Triple glazed windows 300 mm insualtion in the loft and i think it was 100 mm of celotex under the floor costs bugger all to heat and its also cool in summer,- nice.

If you can think of any viable alternatives then let me know i've got a few friends who are uni edcuated Trinity at Cambridge and the like and no theri not neg misery guts but theri all coming up with the same opinions and outlook unlike the Clowns woi are running the country seen the latest on how much Gas we do not have that wasn't all Putys doing just no bloody storage to speak off.

Its buggered, simple as that:(...

[m4rmite]

If you're referring to centrica  boss saying we have less gas in storage right now compared to previous years,  it's a lie .
He's called for government money to build storage so they don't have to pay for it themselves.

There's more gas in storage than at the same time for the last 2 years,  did we run out? No.
Did we use more in the last few weeks than the last few years? Yes as it's been colder.

Nothing like panic to get free money.

[Adoniron]

If you're referring to centrica  boss saying we have less gas in storage right now compared to previous years,  it's a lie .
He's called for government money to build storage so they don't have to pay for it themselves.

There's more gas in storage than at the same time for the last 2 years,  did we run out? No.
Did we use more in the last few weeks than the last few years? Yes as it's been colder.

Nothing like panic to get free money.

Centrica closed the Rough gas storage facility in the North Sea in 2017 because the government wouldn't give them money to maintain it. It was then partially reopened after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Now Centrica wants the government to pay more it to be upgraded to store hydrogen. Why does a privatised industry making huge profits expect the taxpayer to pay to maintain and upgrade its infrastructure?

[Blackpool Rock]

Tidal power is more reliable than wind but is very, very expensive.

Perhaps it is expensive but then again so was wind 20 or 30 years ago 
I remember saying it was prohibitively expensive however the economies of scale have made it the cheapest form of energy production

[petermisc]

Why does a privatised industry making huge profits expect the taxpayer to pay to maintain and upgrade its infrastructure?

Because they are not a charitable organisation.  A private industry will only do something if there is profit in it for them.

[Adoniron]

Because they are not a charitable organisation.  A private industry will only do something if there is profit in it for them.

So they are a private industry which depends on taxpayer handouts? What's the point of privatisation then? If we have to pay for it we may as well own it.

[petermisc]

So they are a private industry which depends on taxpayer handouts? What's the point of privatisation then? If we have to pay for it we may as well own it.

You are in danger of straying into politics.......

[PepeMAGA]

Perhaps it is expensive but then again so was wind 20 or 30 years ago 
I remember saying it was prohibitively expensive however the economies of scale have made it the cheapest form of energy production

I think there's opportunities for small hydroelectric plants too (as in from flowing water), I dont know how efficient they are compared to tidal or wind though.

[PilotMan]

I think there's opportunities for small hydroelectric plants too (as in from flowing water), I dont know how efficient they are compared to tidal or wind though.

I have a large river and small free flowing stream running through my property. I briefly looked in to it and found that hydro is not particularly efficient on a small scale. Information and skills to bring such a small scale solution to fruition are almost non existent too.

There is a defunct mill less than half a mile from me, so there is / was sufficient water flow to power it in the past. But milling only needed the wheel to turn slowly.

Most of our rivers in the UK do not have enough flow, so you need to build a small dam to block the water and then have a sufficient fall to be able to use gravity for increased flow to drive it.

You also need to get permission from the council and water authority.

So small scale hydro is a no go.

A bore hole to capture ground heat is more cost effective.

[RandomGuy99]

I have a large river and small free flowing stream running through my property...

Would that be The Thames?

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Mate of mine had a small stream at the bottom of his large garden and did cobble together a sort of water turbine didnt produce that much but was usable .

If your  windmill is turning slow you gear it up to 1500 RPM for  four pole AC Gen and 3000 revs for a two pole..

Can work well apart from drought and freezing conditions;!

[PilotMan]

Would that be The Thames?

 

The Chelmer.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

The Chelmer.

Now that would be usefull for some. OK maybe not a lot can be generated but say a killowatt thats usefull if its there 24/7..

Storage bateries are getting cheaper, well a bit, but if you can get that power irs better almost that typical Solar as its there ovenight and in the winter months.

I'm fitting up some solar in the spring around 4 odd Killowatts capacity its DIY nice large flat roof panels around £55 ish each but for the wiring and inverter may not even bother to sell it as it can do heating and cooling in the summer. OK its not going to affect the UK grid but my back pocket is a usefull place:)..

[Blackpool Rock]

Now that would be usefull for some. OK maybe not a lot can be generated but say a killowatt thats usefull if its there 24/7..

Storage bateries are getting cheaper, well a bit, but if you can get that power irs better almost that typical Solar as its there ovenight and in the winter months.

I'm fitting up some solar in the spring around 4 odd Killowatts capacity its DIY nice large flat roof panels around £55 ish each but for the wiring and inverter may not even bother to sell it as it can do heating and cooling in the summer. OK its not going to affect the UK grid but my back pocket is a usefull place:)..

Has your account been hacked  You couldn't make this up after everything you've previously posted about the sun not always shining etc 
I knew you'd come to your senses and jump on board eventually 

[PilotMan]

Now that would be usefull for some. OK maybe not a lot can be generated but say a killowatt thats usefull if its there 24/7..

Storage bateries are getting cheaper, well a bit, but if you can get that power irs better almost that typical Solar as its there ovenight and in the winter months.

I'm fitting up some solar in the spring around 4 odd Killowatts capacity its DIY nice large flat roof panels around £55 ish each but for the wiring and inverter may not even bother to sell it as it can do heating and cooling in the summer. OK its not going to affect the UK grid but my back pocket is a usefull place:)..

How easy is it to do yourself?

I've been told I would need around 23KW of solar.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Has your account been hacked  You couldn't make this up after everything you've previously posted about the sun not always shining etc 
I knew you'd come to your senses and jump on board eventually 

Err No! thats just for me, its not enough to run railway trains and electric arc furnaces like the new type at Newport or any industry to speak off.

Nor will it replace Gas for central heating, thats why we need small scale Nuclear...

[Watts.E.Dunn]

How easy is it to do yourself?

I've been told I would need around 23KW of solar.

Well thats a lot for your one house, each panel is around 400/450 watts on a good day think April to September.

And thats why renewables arn't >that< clever.

[timsussex]

Usage/generation is usually measured in kWhours I use 2200kWh a year so roughly 6kWh a day

23kW of solar is quite a bit - around here we usually average 4 hours of useful solar a day so 23kW panels would generate around 92kWh a day - thats an average of course, more in summer less in winter, hence the importance of storage either local or feeding back into the grid. But 92 kWh is 15x my usage

[Blackpool Rock]

Err No! thats just for me, its not enough to run railway trains and electric arc furnaces like the new type at Newport or any industry to speak off.

Nor will it replace Gas for central heating, thats why we need small scale Nuclear...

But again you're missing an important point, it means that you will draw less energy from the grid, now multiply that by a Million or 2 Million houses and suddenly it adds up to a big amount of energy that can run trains; furnaces etc

You will be doing your bit, well done 

[PilotMan]

Well thats a lot for your one house, each panel is around 400/450 watts on a good day think April to September.

And thats why renewables arn't >that< clever.

It's not just one house, I will have quite a few outbuildings.

If I had to choose between the two, I'm thinking that batteries are a better investment than solar, and no visible presence is a bonus too. I.e. drawing down energy at night on a low tariff and selling back any projected excess to the grid during peak hours.

[PilotMan]

Usage/generation is usually measured in kWhours I use 2200kWh a year so roughly 6kWh a day

23kW of solar is quite a bit - around here we usually average 4 hours of useful solar a day so 23kW panels would generate around 92kWh a day - thats an average of course, more in summer less in winter, hence the importance of storage either local or feeding back into the grid. But 92 kWh is 15x my usage

It's not just a house. Keeping horses requires a lot of electricity.

UKP - (that's UK Power, not UK Punting ) just upgraded me from overhead cables to ground cables - this is the new supply cable 



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[timsussex]

It's not just a house. Keeping horses requires a lot of electricity.

UKP - (that's UK Power, not UK Punting ) just upgraded me from overhead cables to ground cables - this is the new supply cable 

Ah that puts a different phase on it !   OK  Its cold so I've already got my coat on !

[Blackpool Rock]

It's not just a house. Keeping horses requires a lot of electricity.

UKP - (that's UK Power, not UK Punting ) just upgraded me from overhead cables to ground cables - this is the new supply cable 



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Why, do they do a lot of home baking or something and always have the oven on   

[Doc Holliday]

Why, do they do a lot of home baking or something and always have the oven on   

You're just being silly .....

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[Watts.E.Dunn]

But again you're missing an important point, it means that you will draw less energy from the grid, now multiply that by a Million or 2 Million houses and suddenly it adds up to a big amount of energy that can run trains; furnaces etc

You will be doing your bit, well done 

Well you would be in the summer in the day but the other users don't stop when the sun don't shine do they?.

Or the wind don't blow.

What i'm doing is to provide some saving on my personal bill for a part of the year, thats all..

and do relaise that thats just electic generation, theres more Gas used in cental heating that energy has to be relpaced..

[Watts.E.Dunn]

It's not just one house, I will have quite a few outbuildings.

If I had to choose between the two, I'm thinking that batteries are a better investment than solar, and no visible presence is a bonus too. I.e. drawing down energy at night on a low tariff and selling back any projected excess to the grid during peak hours.

Well there is a point to that as far as your bill is concerned, but batteries arent that cheap..

I do know of a farner whos missus is into horses and they do have a quite a large solar collector and some storage it cost them!

[PilotMan]

Why, do they do a lot of home baking or something and always have the oven on   

 

They love a solarium.....and a treadmill

[myothernameis]

Scottish Power back  to claiming, we must replace old meter for a smart meter, so current email from them.  I'm aware right now its not law,a nd dont require a smart meter, but the way the power companies word things, someone could fall for there lies

For the last 4 weeks, have been getting the same email every week, and they tell me the meter is around 15 years old, but around 8 years back, the electricity meters in my street were replaced, so another lie

Your electricity meter needs replaced

We urgently need to upgrade your electricity meter to a smart meter as it's now been in use for more than 15 years. If you have a dual fuel account with us, we'll upgrade your gas meter at the same time.

The older your meter gets, the more likely it is to have problems or stop providing us with accurate readings. Not only could this lead to inaccurate bills, but it could also pose a safety risk.   We're required by the UK Government to install smart meters in our customers' homes

[berksboy]

I was getting phone calls every week about this i asked what make and model of meter i have and they did not know. They keep telling it will save you electric but when i ask how can it do that as it only measures what you use. After a lot of emails and phone calls i at last got them to stop.

[PilotMan]

I have / had a long running issue with EON as they were been continually estimating my usage and wouldn't send a person to read the meter (originally a Covid excuse). I stopped paying and complained. I got shunted from person to person, this dragged on for months. I sent them pictures and videos of the meter, they still couldn't figure it out from that.

Then I had my complaint closed as they said there was nothing they could do. Despite them not being able to make sense of my meter and what the readings were supposed to be. At this point my bill was well over £10k.

I referred it to the Ombudsman, they were beyond useless and didn't have a clue. I went back to EON and managed to get a response from a senior executive, this had been dragging on for almost two years and by then my bill was over £20k. He didn't really know what to do, but to resolve things he knocked about £13k off of my bill and agreed for me to pay the rest in instalments of £500 per month.

All this time I was getting emails every couple of weeks telling me to book an appointment to have a smart meter fitted  . I already new that I couldn't because they rely on phone signals and my area is a known mobile signal dead spot. Just to be sure I would click the email, fill in my details and then get the....sorry, no can do answer. A few weeks later same bloody email, same outcome.

A few months ago EON sent a guy to fit a new meter, I don't think it's a smart meter as I have no access to it.

_____
On a separate, but related subject, I'm applying to UKPN - (that's UK Power Networks  ) to install a new connection to three new houses and reroute the existing supply to the existing house.  They want to know intricate details of each house and what type of Heat Pump we're using on each one, the starting method, the starting and running currents, the frequency of daily use i.e. how many times per day it will be switched on, the diversified load per meter in KVA.

The red tape and questions are unbelievable. There's enough 3 phase power coming through to supply 4 x 100AMP heads, but they just won't accept a simple request to supply 4 x 100 AMP heads.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Can recommend "Outfox the market" and "Octopus" EON and the like SSN wouldnt give them house room at all totall wankers..

UK power networks are a pretty decent company and usually quite helpfull.

We had a breif power outage round here a while ago, and i had a Lady engineer phone up and got chapter and verse on what caused it!...

[PilotMan]

Can recommend "Outfox the market" and "Octopus" EON and the like SSN wouldnt give them house room at all totall wankers..

UK power networks are a pretty decent company and usually quite helpfull.

We had a breif power outage round here a while ago, and i had a Lady engineer phone up and got chapter and verse on what caused it!...

I'm most likely to go with Octopus as they have some great tariffs for Solar and Battery users.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Well well well! you couldnt make it up! Starmer and co saying build as many SMR's as you like and almost anywhere!..

Perhaps Millband has seen the light at last!..

Just hope that the goverment give Rolls Royce the backing they need to make them here rather then import chinese made ones!...

[RandomGuy99]

Well well well! you couldnt make it up! Starmer and co saying build as many SMR's as you like and almost anywhere!..

Perhaps Millband has seen the light at last!..

Just hope that the goverment give Rolls Royce the backing they need to make them here rather then import chinese made ones!...

I can't see the government buying lots of small nuclear bombs from China.

[Adoniron]

Well well well! you couldnt make it up! Starmer and co saying build as many SMR's as you like and almost anywhere!..

Perhaps Millband has seen the light at last!..

Just hope that the goverment give Rolls Royce the backing they need to make them here rather then import chinese made ones!...

It's a shame nobody thought to build any in the last 30 years.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

It's a shame nobody thought to build any in the last 30 years.

Well yes we didnt the French did, now the bloody powerhouse of europe.

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BTW No need for bombs from China its a Small Modular Reactor the size and type they use a to power Submarines, you put these all over the coulntry and they supply power on a more local basis not that much grid capacity needed to move power from one end of the UK to the other!..

[RandomGuy99]

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[timsussex]

It's a shame nobody thought to build any in the last 30 years.

make that 50+ years !

The UK lead the world in nuclear research in the 1950s - starting with Calder Hall then Dounreay. So many missed opportunities - so many types of reactor developed  and then abandoned/left to others to perfect