The Politics Thread

[PepeMAGA]

Thing is, we're stifling our economy with green measures, China are using them where it suits and doesn't harm their economy.
I'm in favour of going green where possible, but not when it's putting us and other western countries on the backdoor to those that don't give a fuck and we shouldn't be happy about them expanding.

[RedKettle]

Where i have changed on green agenda is finally appreciating that accelerating the change to a green economy is not a nice to do or some optional path to consider.  It is essential to maintain some semblance of the lives we lead now. 

If saving your life depends on 30 people starting to jump you do not wait saying you will not jump because the fat person is sitting down. You start jumping and work on persuading the others to jump.

Talk of economic disadvantage is irrelevant compared to the impacts we are starting to see and that will accelerate.

Just as one small example those of you complaining about immigration wait until a whole segment of Africa is no longer habitable and hundreds of millions of people start to move.

[bigden40]

Where i have changed on green agenda is finally appreciating that accelerating the change to a green economy is not a nice to do or some optional path to consider.  It is essential to maintain some semblance of the lives we lead now. 

If saving your life depends on 30 people starting to jump you do not wait saying you will not jump because the fat person is sitting down. You start jumping and work on persuading the others to jump.

Talk of economic disadvantage is irrelevant compared to the impacts we are starting to see and that will accelerate.

Just as one small example those of you complaining about immigration wait until a whole segment of Africa is no longer habitable and hundreds of millions of people start to move.

You truly have drunk the kool aid.

[PepeMAGA]

Where i have changed on green agenda is finally appreciating that accelerating the change to a green economy is not a nice to do or some optional path to consider.  It is essential to maintain some semblance of the lives we lead now. 

If saving your life depends on 30 people starting to jump you do not wait saying you will not jump because the fat person is sitting down. You start jumping and work on persuading the others to jump.

Talk of economic disadvantage is irrelevant compared to the impacts we are starting to see and that will accelerate.

Just as one small example those of you complaining about immigration wait until a whole segment of Africa is no longer habitable and hundreds of millions of people start to move.

There are relatively passive options that could be implemented to improve the UK green...status for want if a better word that wouldn't impact the economy or people's individual finances.
More requirements on new builds for example more hydro, more efficient existing hydro.
The analogy about fat people doesn't really work in this case because the CCP see how much it's hurting our economy and push us to do more while they do what benefits them.
That isn't too say we should do nothing, but it should be sensible and not ignore the financial or practical implications.

[Blackpool Rock]

Thing is, we're stifling our economy with green measures, China are using them where it suits and doesn't harm their economy.
I'm in favour of going green where possible, but not when it's putting us and other western countries on the backdoor to those that don't give a fuck and we shouldn't be happy about them expanding.

Green energy is the future and history tends to demonstrate that those who are at the forefront of new technology and innovation gain an advantage, should we not have invented and adopted all the things that led to the industrial revolution, should we have sat and continued with the old ways of doing things 

A lot of the impact on our economy over the last 2 years was down to high inflation rates and a significant portion of that was due to the high oil and gas price, if we had been generating green energy which wasn't subject to global prices then our inflation rate would have been lower and our economy wouldn't have been hit so hard.

It's not so much the price of doing green initiatives but more the price of not doing them which concerns me, and i'm not even talking about the environmental impact 

[Blackpool Rock]

That’s a lot of positive words to describe making our country poorer for no real benefit to anyone.

What rubbish 

[Marmalade]

The only “should” (other than complying with any laws) is doing what you should think you should do.

Forcing green behaviour on someone when it means they freeze, starve or lose their livelihood doesn’t strike me as respectful.

Do what you can do. Recycling facilities in some countries are far superior to the U.K.  Doing something to help now like moving to a house that is not likely to be subject to floods for instance might mean you are less of a drain on the economy.

Going vegetarian and avoid air travel are among the biggest things you might do to ‘reduce your carbon footprint’ but not many people are going to swear off those.

[wristjob]

Where i have changed on green agenda is finally appreciating that accelerating the change to a green economy is not a nice to do or some optional path to consider.  It is essential to maintain some semblance of the lives we lead now. 

Perhaps you can answer a question for me.

Background - I believed all this climate change stuff for a good 20+ years. Over the last 10 years I've started asking myself questions - like why aren't we all dead, was the end really that nigh, why isn't the UK buried below the sea and all the predictions from 80s, 90s, noughties and early teens. Over time i just stopped believing in Jesus and climate change as there is no conclusive evidence of either.

So here's my question to you: What is the one piece of evidence (I assume some research paper) that convinced you climate change (that will end in life as we know it bla bla) is real?

I've asked quite a lot of people that, and usually I get a facetious answer, link to NASA or the BBC or something. Never anything specific. I'm coming to the conclusion nobody actually ready the research, they just believe the constant regurgitation in the media etc. Obviously on internet forums I expect everyone to be a climate change researcher or have studied it, cos they always say they have and nobody would ever lie on an anonymous forum right.

[wristjob]

Forcing green behaviour on someone when it means they freeze, starve or lose their livelihood doesn’t strike me as respectful.

It's not really achieving the goal is it. Starving people so they don't starve, killing them so they don't die. Very progressive though.

This graph is interesting - from the government:

External Link/Members Only

UK GHG emissions reduced by around 1/3 in the last 15 years (pop increased by about 10% too). transport is what, 10%? evs won't really take much of a bite out of the total. The biggest category is GHGs embedded in imported goods. It looks like the best way to improve our carbon footprint is to import less junk from places that kick out a lot of GHGs.

[PepeMAGA]

Green energy is the future and history tends to demonstrate that those who are at the forefront of new technology and innovation gain an advantage, should we not have invented and adopted all the things that led to the industrial revolution, should we have sat and continued with the old ways of doing things 

A lot of the impact on our economy over the last 2 years was down to high inflation rates and a significant portion of that was due to the high oil and gas price, if we had been generating green energy which wasn't subject to global prices then our inflation rate would have been lower and our economy wouldn't have been hit so hard.

It's not so much the price of doing green initiatives but more the price of not doing them which concerns me, and i'm not even talking about the environmental impact 

On the first bit, we aren't really innovating in green technology, most of the solar and lithium batteries come from China. I agree we're missing out and should be leading on it, doesn't mean we should be stifling our economy and helping to build others though.

On the second it depends what you consider green, the energy demand is constantly increasing and the amount of renewable energy required to meet that isn't realistic.
So then it's nuclear.
The gas and fuel prices are high by choice and aren't doing much to move people over the electric vehicles, just making life harder for them.
Except in China, Saudi Arabia and and India where they're getting cut price russian gas and petrol

[Marmalade]

It's not really achieving the goal is it. Starving people so they don't starve, killing them so they don't die. Very progressive though.

This graph is interesting - from the government:

External Link/Members Only

UK GHG emissions reduced by around 1/3 in the last 15 years (pop increased by about 10% too). transport is what, 10%? evs won't really take much of a bite out of the total. The biggest category is GHGs embedded in imported goods. It looks like the best way to improve our carbon footprint is to import less junk from places that kick out a lot of GHGs.

Apparently cows fart a lot as well — seriously — methane.
Hidden Image/Members Only
But if their food is modified they wouldn’t.
External Link/Members Only

But you got to live until you die. Make the most of it!


(edited to make the fucking cow fit)

[timsussex]

Not got any upto date figures but 20 years ago it was estimated the the average American consumed over 100x the Earths resources compared  an African in their lifetime

The Indian PM pointed out that India has 17% of the worlds population but contributes only 4% of the carbon emissions

Nearly 60 years ago Paul Erhlich  wrote
"The responsibility for saving Spaceship Earth lies with the first class passengers"  and thats even more relevant today

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Mount a gas collection tank on the cow, a valve to collect the fartz there we go problem sorted:)

[Marmalade]

Not got any upto date figures but 20 years ago it was estimated the the average American consumed over 100x the Earths resources compared  an African in their lifetime

The Indian PM pointed out that India has 17% of the worlds population but contributes only 4% of the carbon emissions

Nearly 60 years ago Paul Erhlich  wrote
"The responsibility for saving Spaceship Earth lies with the first class passengers"  and thats even more relevant today

Interesting but easy to jump to a judgement, isn’t it? America the bad guys again consuming so much of the earth’s resources… but maybe they have also played a big part in actually developing the world’s resources.

India has one of the world’s largest labour forces but hasn’t achieved as much as America. In 2006, India contained the largest number of people living below the World Bank's international poverty line (Wiki). And they have the world’s biggest population of cows!

But cows apart, America has been massively reducing its emissions, while India’s are External Link/Members Only.

I don’t want cheerlead for America, I’m not actually that fond of America, but maybe the ‘first class passengers” to “save” the world are the intelligentsia of America, India and some other places combined.

[Marmalade]

Mount a gas collection tank on the cow, a valve to collect the fartz there we go problem sorted:)

Could we test one in Mr Khan’s dining room perhaps to help with ULEZ?

And if it gets stuck he could always blow in it!

[timsussex]

...
But cows apart, America has been massively reducing its emissions, while India’s are External Link/Members Only.

I don’t want cheerlead for America, I’m not actually that fond of America, but maybe the ‘first class passengers” to “save” the world are the intelligentsia of America, India and some other places combined.

Of course poverty helps reduce your emissions and having a predominantly warm climate also helps but the fact is that even if USA halves its emissions and India double theirs the average Yank will still produce more than the average Indian
Would love to see how long an American car lasts compared to an Indian one - although I suspect the Indian consumer society is rapidy catching up - at least among the better off 10%

[Marmalade]

Of course poverty helps reduce your emissions and having a predominantly warm climate also helps but the fact is that even if USA halves its emissions and India double theirs the average Yank will still produce more than the average Indian
Would love to see how long an American car lasts compared to an Indian one - although I suspect the Indian consumer society is rapidy catching up - at least among the better off 10%

Sound quite reasonable.

Posh society in India has anything that rich people elsewhere have. Mostly they live in gated communities.

So what would propose? (Other than a solution that might be proposed by Mr Putin.)

[PepeMAGA]

Of course poverty helps reduce your emissions and having a predominantly warm climate also helps but the fact is that even if USA halves its emissions and India double theirs the average Yank will still produce more than the average Indian
Would love to see how long an American car lasts compared to an Indian one - although I suspect the Indian consumer society is rapidy catching up - at least among the better off 10%

Much of India is living in severe poverty, if they all moved to the same middle class lifestyle as the West, the carbon emissions would) will shoot up.... America is a bit different tbf given the amount they waste on food (see the obesity epidemic) and massive car engines that drink fuel.

[timsussex]

Sound quite reasonable.

Posh society in India has anything that rich people elsewhere have. Mostly they live in gated communities.

So what would propose? (Other than a solution that might be proposed by Mr Putin.)

If I ruled the world ?
reduce waste - make every company provide spare parts for 10 years - and cap the combined cost of all those parts at the original items completed cost.

15 years ago I went to buy a new element for a toaster - and found I could buy a complete toaster  for 10% more than the cost of an element. Ebay has improved things a little but what do you think it would cost to buy all the parts to make a car which sells today sells new for £20k ?

[RedKettle]

Perhaps you can answer a question for me.

Background - I believed all this climate change stuff for a good 20+ years. Over the last 10 years I've started asking myself questions - like why aren't we all dead, was the end really that nigh, why isn't the UK buried below the sea and all the predictions from 80s, 90s, noughties and early teens. Over time i just stopped believing in Jesus and climate change as there is no conclusive evidence of either.

So here's my question to you: What is the one piece of evidence (I assume some research paper) that convinced you climate change (that will end in life as we know it bla bla) is real?

I've asked quite a lot of people that, and usually I get a facetious answer, link to NASA or the BBC or something. Never anything specific. I'm coming to the conclusion nobody actually ready the research, they just believe the constant regurgitation in the media etc. Obviously on internet forums I expect everyone to be a climate change researcher or have studied it, cos they always say they have and nobody would ever lie on an anonymous forum right.

Are you kidding? Have you looked at any of the graphs on for example temperature over time? Have you read any of the science? Have you noticed the frequent 100 year weather events? Honestly there are thousands of data points that prove it.

Also worth bearing in mind the consequence of me being wrong is loss of economic progress etc, the consequence of you being wrong is catastrophic.

[wristjob]

Are you kidding? Have you looked at any of the graphs on for example temperature over time? Have you read any of the science? Have you noticed the frequent 100 year weather events? Honestly there are thousands of data points that prove it.

Also worth bearing in mind the consequence of me being wrong is loss of economic progress etc, the consequence of you being wrong is catastrophic.

OK sorry, I'l rephrase the question. I don't doubt climate change happens - but where is the evidence it's a problem?  I want a prediction of something bad happening and reasons why, and if possible predictions from 10-20 years ago that came true. I don't much look at the data now because like you nobody gives me a link to anything specific, and when I was interested the predictions never came true.

[timsussex]

Hidden Image/Members Only

[lostandfound]

If I ruled the world ?
reduce waste - make every company provide spare parts for 10 years - and cap the combined cost of all those parts at the original items completed cost.

15 years ago I went to buy a new element for a toaster - and found I could buy a complete toaster  for 10% more than the cost of an element. Ebay has improved things a little but what do you think it would cost to buy all the parts to make a car which sells today sells new for £20k ?

That would just vastly increase the cost of the original item.

[timsussex]

That would just vastly increase the cost of the original item.

yes but vastly increase its lifetime and therefore its true cost

[Marmalade]

15 years ago I went to buy a new element for a toaster - and found I could buy a complete toaster  for 10% more than the cost of an element.

Not only that, but I remember when things were repairable. People would get their hands dirty fixing the car   You might even re-wire the hi fi system or mend the tv. A printer just printed: no fancy electrics. Now microprocessors are in everything. The fridge wants to order the milk. A spare part for anything it seems will cos up to 90% the cost of the original item. Light bulbs are made to stop working otherwise no one would ever buy them after the first one.

[RedKettle]

OK sorry, I'l rephrase the question. I don't doubt climate change happens - but where is the evidence it's a problem?  I want a prediction of something bad happening and reasons why, and if possible predictions from 10-20 years ago that came true. I don't much look at the data now because like you nobody gives me a link to anything specific, and when I was interested the predictions never came true.

I seriously worry about our future when I read posts like that. You do not need to look at predictions, there are actual problems now, like whole inhabited islands being swamped by rising sea levels. Extreme weather events etc etc. Dip into the evidence at the COP from the poorer nations being impacted.

The predictions that are now being made are based on very firm science and are an extrapolation of what is happening.

[Blackpool Rock]

Apparently cows fart a lot as well — seriously — methane.
Hidden Image/Members Only
But if their food is modified they wouldn’t.
External Link/Members Only

But you got to live until you die. Make the most of it!


(edited to make the fucking cow fit)

Looking at that it appears we did the planet a favour by almost wiping out Buffalo 

[PepeMAGA]

yes but vastly increase its lifetime and therefore its true cost

I thought this was supposed to be made law a while back? Can't remember the details, but I thought one of the recent governments or possibly the EU introduced it?

[badsin]

Which islands have disappeared due to sea level rises?

[PepeMAGA]

I seriously worry about our future when I read posts like that. You do not need to look at predictions, there are actual problems now, like whole inhabited islands being swamped by rising sea levels. Extreme weather events etc etc. Dip into the evidence at the COP from the poorer nations being impacted.

The predictions that are now being made are based on very firm science and are an extrapolation of what is happening.

I think the problem is that people make these ott statements something like if we do nothing we'll all be dead by 2030 or when there's a bad weather event to always blame it on climate change, like they've never happened before. People then find it hard to believe the core message, assuming all of it is lies. You had similar things during COVID, one bit of nonsense make people distrust everything.

[PepeMAGA]

Which islands have disappeared due to sea level rises?

Scaramanga's island

[Blackpool Rock]

I think the problem is that people make these ott statements something like if we do nothing we'll all be dead by 2030 or when there's a bad weather event to always blame it on climate change, like they've never happened before. People then find it hard to believe the core message, assuming all of it is lies. You had similar things during COVID, one bit of nonsense make people distrust everything.

I think this is a problem and agree that it's become overkill in how much absolutely every time the wind blows or there is a flash flood etc it's put down to climate change, starts to become like the boy crying wolf.

I agree that the world is heating up and i'll accept that this is in part down to man made CO2 etc and that we need to look at stopping our impact however they also need to grasp the nettle and start talking about the fact that the world is over populated.
As already highlighted in this thread developed countries / people also tend to have a higher environmental impact so in the next 50 or 100 years we will have Billions more people who are having an even greater impact 

[PepeMAGA]

I think this is a problem and agree that it's become overkill in how much absolutely every time the wind blows or there is a flash flood etc it's put down to climate change, starts to become like the boy crying wolf.

I agree that the world is heating up and i'll accept that this is in part down to man made CO2 etc and that we need to look at stopping our impact however they also need to grasp the nettle and start talking about the fact that the world is over populated.
As already highlighted in this thread developed countries / people also tend to have a higher environmental impact so in the next 50 or 100 years we will have Billions more people who are having an even greater impact 

Exactly

[badsin]

Scaramanga's island

 

[Blackpool Rock]

So Starmer has made a comment about Thatcher and the fact that she made "Meaningful change", i'm not sure how many dyed in the wool Tories and Thatcherites will be tempted to vote Labour and it will piss those on the left of the Labour party right off however it does help him to distance himself from Corbyn a bit more and potentially attracts a few more floating voters 

External Link/Members Only

[JontyR]

The reduction in the number of animals of all stripes (or spots) is indicative of the change in the environment. The level of direct and indirect impact of humankind on this can be argued. The same can be said of the numbers of plants and fungi too.

Eco systems often self regulate, the proliferation of prey and predator are generally cyclical. But the rise in the number of humans, and the strains of sustaining this population that has demands beyond pure subsistence is not something that the earth has had to deal with before. 

We don't always understand the interactions in these ecosystems and the impacts that they may have. We don't always aprpeciate living in these temperate climes about the amount of deaths caused by mosquitoes. We may, in future, become aware of the amount of deaths indirectly caused by the varroa mite or something yet unknown.

[lostandfound]

I thought this was supposed to be made law a while back? Can't remember the details, but I thought one of the recent governments or possibly the EU introduced it?

Still making its way through the EU admin

External Link/Members Only

Will be interesting to see how it works in practice assuming it makes it through. Tesla's eg are increasingly less repairable than cars from other makers; I believe I saw Elon quoted as saying if you have a prang in one, just scrap it and buy a new one.

[PepeMAGA]

Still making its way through the EU admin

External Link/Members Only

Will be interesting to see how it works in practice assuming it makes it through. Tesla's eg are increasingly less repairable than cars from other makers; I believe I saw Elon quoted as saying if you have a prang in one, just scrap it and buy a new one.

I think to make it work well things will need to be more modular. Like a washing machine, the main body appearance probably isn't going to change for 20 years, but being able to update the controls etc would make it look more modern and make it easier to upgrade.
Something like a mobile phone won't work a) because they're too complex and miniature, b) people want new phones all the time.

[Marmalade]

I think to make it work well things will need to be more modular. Like a washing machine, the main body appearance probably isn't going to change for 20 years, but being able to update the controls etc would make it look more modern and make it easier to upgrade.
Something like a mobile phone won't work a) because they're too complex and miniature, b) people want new phones all the time.

The control panels for my washing machine are not replaceable because they don’t make them any more   Same for some other stuff I’ve got. I asked about a repair for my shaver (one small seemingly replaceable part). They were happy to offer the part — at approximately the price of buying the same shaver again on Amazon. Mending a printer? Not even worth asking.

Apple’s solution is to get you to trade in your phone for a new one every year. That means you’re up to date. They don’t want to waste money developing updates for old models.

Meanwhile on the politics thread …

A permanent cease fire in Gaza would mean Hamas have won. They would be in control, treat the Paleys like shit, and not be trusted by anyone. That would not lead to a two-state solution, much proposed by America. Israel says even after the war it will hunt down Hamas leaders anywhere in the world.

Sometimes I think they just openly do the dirty work that other western nations feel too politically correct to do so openly. Either Netanyahu gets overthrown or they’ll continue full tilt with enough P.R. to ease Americans’ conscience over the arms gravy train.

[timsussex]

The control panels for my washing machine are not replaceable because they don’t make them any more   Same for some other stuff I’ve got. I asked about a repair for my shaver (one small seemingly replaceable part). They were happy to offer the part — at approximately the price of buying the same shaver again on Amazon. Mending a printer? Not even worth asking.

Apple’s solution is to get you to trade in your phone for a new one every year. That means you’re up to date. They don’t want to waste money developing updates for old models.

Meanwhile on the politics thread …

there are two types of goods - 1 where technology is moving rapidly forward each year eg phones  and 2 where the basic item doesnt change eg Kettles or shoes (remember when every town had a Cobbler or three)

Manufacturers have always tried to muddy the water with this years model or deliberate fashion choices eg skirt length 
But now everything comes with chips - we even have smart kettles now - do you really need to turn a kettle on from your phone or by voice  FFS!

Apple and co are getting a bit desperate each year finding new features to make people buy this years model - the megapixel race in cameras has now reached an end and folding screens was the last big breakthrough and that went well !

As Greta would point out this needs political change

[lostandfound]

there are two types of goods - 1 where technology is moving rapidly forward each year eg phones  and 2 where the basic item doesnt change eg Kettles or shoes (remember when every town had a Cobbler or three)

Manufacturers have always tried to muddy the water with this years model or deliberate fashion choices eg skirt length 
But now everything comes with chips - we even have smart kettles now - do you really need to turn a kettle on from your phone or by voice  FFS!

Apple and co are getting a bit desperate each year finding new features to make people buy this years model - the megapixel race in cameras has now reached an end and folding screens was the last big breakthrough and that went well !

As Greta would point out this needs political change

Yeah - progress is for the birds! 

The Commies had the right idea! The Trabant was the greatest car the world had ever seen, and anyone who tried to improve it should be treated harshly! (Which actually happened).

[DastardlyDick]

Which islands have disappeared due to sea level rises?

It's either the artificial Islands China built, or what was going to be "The World" resort in Dubai.

[PepeMAGA]

Meanwhile on the politics thread …
A permanent cease fire in Gaza would mean Hamas have won. They would be in control, treat the Paleys like shit, and not be trusted by anyone. That would not lead to a two-state solution, much proposed by America. Israel says even after the war it will hunt down Hamas leaders anywhere in the world.

Think they're determined to keep going now.
If they stop they'll just do the same again, though it's difficult to know at what point all of Hamas are gone. Similar to the Al Qaeda leadership after 911 they could have made less noise about retaliation, let the dust settle then drone strike then all. Though that wouldn't go down well with those wanting swift revenge.

[timsussex]

Yeah - progress is for the birds! 

The Commies had the right idea! The Trabant was the greatest car the world had ever seen, and anyone who tried to improve it should be treated harshly! (Which actually happened).

as I said some items are evolving so this years model is better than last but I'm watching Man City Spurs and Spurs are wearing this years away kit - which looks like  a 5 year old has mixed up all the paints in a pot and produced a muddy colour then found a bit more black for a stripe down the side !
Why other than money do clubs change shirt designs every year ?

[lostandfound]

as I said some items are evolving so this years model is better than last but I'm watching Man City Spurs and Spurs are wearing this years away kit - which looks like  a 5 year old has mixed up all the paints in a pot and produced a muddy colour then found a bit more black for a stripe down the side !
Why other than money do clubs change shirt designs every year ?

It's the joy of Capitalism in the Liberal Democratic West; the consumer society, and freedom of choice.

You chose to buy a cheap shit toaster when you could have bought one of these -

Hidden Image/Members Only

Only £220 @ John Lewis, and very repairable. Other Dualit models available. Your choice!

[Marmalade]

But now everything comes with chips - we even have smart kettles now - do you really need to turn a kettle on from your phone or by voice  FFS!

How else could they monitor your every move c/o Siri or Alexa and target you with exciting ads for a new kettle that you don't need? Or upgrade the chip remotely so it works 'better' (i.e. slower)?

Apple and co are getting a bit desperate each year finding new features to make people buy this years model - the megapixel race in cameras has now reached an end and folding screens was the last big breakthrough and that went well !

I looked at the new iPhone trailer. More like a car ad. Then they External Link/Members Only (oooeee almost half an oz lighter duh, and the Samsung is bigger and has a built-in pen). Like the last one, "it's fast" (maybe as fast as the latest Galaxy??) Apparently, it's good for gamers, but I'm not a gamer. Thena. picture of an iguana. OK I always wanted to take a photo of an iguana  . But Samsung has, External Link/Members Only, been consistently beating iPhone on camera. Whereas iPhone boasts a lovely picture with "the longest optical zoom of any iPhone ever". Is it really worth putting "5x optical zoom" in big letters when Samsung had External Link/Members Only 3yrs ago?

The External Link/Members Only ad[/url] is a little less flashy.

The ads didn't excite me. We all know that if you have all-Apple products you'll eventually buy another iPhone, even if you liked the Galaxy better. Android users have more of a choice but how many will get an iPhone with unknown compatibility issues always getting rolled out? I bought a Galaxy some years back. It was streets ahead of my iPhone, before and afterwards. But after two years it bricked. Some people's Galaxies caught fire on planes and got banned. My accountant always says Apple products suffer less devaluation.

I've got a Mac, an iMac, a Macbook, an iPad, 2nd Gen AirPods Pro (with a range and pairing facility that is almost as good as my cheap £16 earpods but not quite) and an iPhone that needs replacing.

What do I have to look forward to. I think External Link/Members Only. Well... (grimace and forced smile emoji) my new iPhone will come in a very nicely-designed box...

But can we please get this thread back to politics? If we don't use it I suspect we might cease to have it.

[Marmalade]

Getting back to politics

China is getting round American sanctions on chips by getting SK Hynix via underground markets. But its mainstay is the first fully Chinese-made Huawei smartphone that can tap into 5G networks. External Link/Members Only is trumpeted as groundbreaking. "People can see from this that American sanctions cannot stop China’s technological progress" says their People’s Daily government mouthpiece. It's External Link/Members Only that uses a Taiwan chip. Biden’s administration is considering curbing China’s access to American cloud computing. Apple (used by China's elite) has not yet been banned from China. But soon people will want an AI device, not just a phone.

Hidden Image/Members Only
China has more manufacturing than the U.S. and Germany combined. Ironically China has also become a leader in green-energy technology. The rest of the world depends largely on Chinese solar-panel and battery supply chains. China has overtaken Japan to become the world’s largest car exporter, thanks in part to dominance in electric vehicles (External Link/Members Only).

It's not just about Taiwan any more. Chinese communism has the power to force industrial advances in spite of human cost. All this tit-for-tat over trade bans is fundamentally against free-market ideology. The big thing about cutting ties with China was supposed to be over I.T. security. Maybe the West should just get better at sandboxing Chinese I.T. imports.

[wristjob]

[/b] The big thing about cutting ties with China was supposed to be over I.T. security. Maybe the West should just get better at sandboxing Chinese I.T. imports.

It goes way beyond that. china hack everything. 20 years ago the world networking leader was Nortel Networks. Huawei hacked all their IP,  destroyed the company and took their place. Then you have hacks on most the big US military contractors and likely tons of stuff nobody knows or have discovered yet.

[wristjob]

yes but vastly increase its lifetime and therefore its true cost

The kids today point their fingers at Boomers and gen-X but nobody wants anything to have a lifetime now. I doubt Apple has sold a single phone to somebody whose old iPhone broke, probably 50% of each model goes to somebody who had the previous model. Fast fashion - wear once throw away. People say they want sustainability bla bla - but they don't act like that.

[DastardlyDick]

It's the joy of Capitalism in the Liberal Democratic West; the consumer society, and freedom of choice.

You chose to buy a cheap shit toaster when you could have bought one of these -

Hidden Image/Members Only

Only £220 @ John Lewis, and very repairable. Other Dualit models available. Your choice!

But according to Which? a rubbish toaster