2 Hand delivered letters from bailiffs :-(

[daviemac]

Hey; it's cos I'm happy to back up who I am, and what i know... Not hide behind some bullshit smart arse posts...
Do i know everything, def not... But at least i'm willing to stand up with facts rather than pretend/Google answers as many do

Ive bumped into some on here who actually are specialists in certain areas and it's really funny when i see posters, incl Mods taking them to task like they have a clue.

Freedom of speech post...... Isn't that how it works.

My offer still stands... Why wouldn't it? Cos it's not me being phoney.... I don't need Google. If i don't know something i'm happy to say so.
Take that however you want

What? so you could send some fake qualifications you've found on the internet. My comment still stands, you are making yourself look stupid.

Ok... bad examples on my part.

Not as clever as you think you are it would seem.

If you have a sensible comment to make on the topic of this thread then do so, but dump the air self importance and pompous attitude. 

[Gordon Bennett]

Personally, as long as the paperwork clearly related to my son, I'd just give the bailiff the dosh and pay the debt. I can't be arsed with shit like that, particularly on my doorstep - I'd rather just end it.

[Paris69]

What? so you could send some fake qualifications you've found on the internet. My comment still stands, you are making yourself look stupid.
Not as clever as you think you are it would seem.

If you have a sensible comment to make on the topic of this thread then do so, but dump the air self importance and pompous attitude.

Don't need fake one's... and i can send from my Govt email and account.... and easily verifiable via contacting the Uni's (multiple) for verification. But i'll drop this line of argument/discussion..... It's pointless
You think i'm making myself look stupid. Your prerogative to think that way..... And you know what, sometimes I actually do.

You dont wanna know what i think though.. But there we are eh.

Pompous... I'm from a Council estate in Sunderland. Not exactly silver spoon in the mouth stuff.... 

[finn5555]

Daviemac I see you banned Paris69 was that due to him  being a cockwomble or the fact he was arguing with you, or both 

[daviemac]

Daviemac I see you banned Paris69 was that due to him  being a cockwomble or the fact he was arguing with you, or both 

Because he was being a cockwomble and continuing with his attitude of self importance despite this post ↓ which should have ended that particular discussion.

If you have a sensible comment to make on the topic of this thread then do so, but dump the air self importance and pompous attitude.

He had also been reported prior to all of this.

Edit

It isn't the first time he's wanted to swap txt messages so he can show what he has or has done.

[winkywanky]

I reckon it's because he said he came from Sunderland...  

[Kev40ish]

I reckon it's because he said he came from Sunderland...  

Pure fantasy no one admits to that 

[winkywanky]

I found his assertion that because he came from humble beginnings he 'couldn't' be pompous, rather ludicrous  .

Pompous isn't where you come from, it's who you are  .

[winkywanky]

Pure fantasy no one admits to that 

Fair point, well made 

[yandex]

I retired two years ago.     

Anyway, dodgepots had to pay me upfront.   

Hijacking the thread slightly - apologies - but just out of interest, could you always spot them?

[finn5555]

I reckon it's because he said he came from Sunderland...  

Ah my assumption was we didn’t allow council estate kids on here 

[winkywanky]

Ah my assumption was we didn’t allow council estate kids on here 

Well coming from Eton/Cambridge/Banking Career and being stinking rich, I would have no idea whatsoever 

[finn5555]

Well coming from Eton

I went to Harrow as my papa told me plenty of prostitutes around there, and as my school fees were so high I could only have a limited allowance for such follies

[Xtro]

Sunderland football club have just turned down a £40m sponsorship deal with a leading dog food manufacturer.
A club spokesman said having Winalot across their shirts would just be taking the piss.    


If you put a Greggs pasty to your ear and listen really closely you can hear a council estate.   

[winkywanky]

Sunderland football club have just turned down a £40m sponsorship deal with a leading dog food manufacturer.
A club spokesman said having Winalot across their shirts would just be taking the piss.    


If you put a Greggs pasty to your ear and listen really closely you can hear a council estate.   

 

[standardpostage]

Yes move house ASAP  , I would say move countries but that would cost you £5K to come back 

[smiths]

I went to Harrow as my papa told me plenty of prostitutes around there, and as my school fees were so high I could only have a limited allowance for such follies

Fucking in Harrow quite a bit over the years is the closest I got to the public school.

[smiths]

I found his assertion that because he came from humble beginnings he 'couldn't' be pompous, rather ludicrous  .

Pompous isn't where you come from, it's who you are  .

Whereas that Paris snide dig about some of us having too much time on our hands and posting on here told me all I needed to know about that cunt. Good riddance and thanks to daviemac for getting rid, though no doubt they will make a comeback, that ilk usually do.

[Rochelle]

There one way for your son/daughter to deal with this, would be to contact a debt management company, and if they go to there local CAB office they will do this with no fees

The debt management company, can set up a payment plan, and your son/daughter could pay what they afford per month, so maybe £20 per month, for two years.  At the end of the two years, the remaining £220 could be written of

I had debt of around £22,000, which was reduced to £17,500, on the principle over the next 10 yrs I pay £200 per month, which I did, and last 2020, I became debt free

Are you sure your debt was reduced?

[smiths]

You are wrong, the address can be blacklisted. It is easy to overcome, you just need to prove you have just moved in and have lived elsewhere prior. They then use your previous address for credit purposes.

This is from my own personal experience with a family member.

Yes that's my understanding from a mate of mine who had to do what you have posted here and your family member did. The old tenant hadn't told people they owed money to they had moved.

[finn5555]

Fucking in Harrow quite a bit over the years is the closest I got to the public school.

Same here in fairness

[smiths]

The basic principle at stake here is exactly as Yandex described: have the right attitude and the balls to deal with the consequences of your actions. In this particular instance we're talking about a young lad with his life in front of him, running away from stuff like this will never end well and it tends to implicate others. The longer you leave it and the more you try to wriggle out of it, the worse it gets. Sounds to me like he needs to learn a life lesson  .

As I said earlier, I don't know the exact situation between father and son here but clearly this has turned into a mess, potentially for both of them. The longer it gets left, the more expense and the more angst is created, as well as potential future problems with credit rating etc.

May be I'm being thick/gullible, but that way I see it is very simple, do the right thing and pay your debts.

I certainly agree this needs sorting asap a I posted previously. In my case for this crime I would want to sort it out with my son between us without telling him to do it himself solely. And in fact I would do the leg work as I know it would get sorted in the manner that suited me. It makes no odds to me that he is mid-20s, I would want to give him the best advice I could as well as bollocking him about it. We would then hopefully agree what to do which would be too sort it out asap and if that meant me paying whats owed I would do so. If that makes me gullible so be it, I really don't mind being seen as a soft touch with him, he is my only child, if I cant help him I dont see the point in having a child, but that's me. But that wouldn't be the case if it was a serious crime, he knows that.

Now when he was at Uni he ran up his allowed overdraft to an amount I thought was too much, under his limit but too much for my liking, he was 20 at the time. We talked and I told him to get it down by £500 or so, well he got a part-time job and did just that. Now he is looking to buy his first property with his fiancé and of course it helps to have a good credit rating. Overall I wouldnt want to see him having problems getting credit for a minor matter like fare dodging which I see it as, some will see it differently as this thread shows, his fault, his mess to sort out, a perfectly valid view to take, just not my view on this.

[JontyR]

To tell a debt collection agency where your offspring lives is not throwing them under the bus.

To do so but not providing them with any assistance would be.

Of course if you can help your kids you will. But there needs to be a certain amount of trying to teach good lessons even if they are 2, 12, 22 or older. Namely here...don't do anything stupid to start with, but if you do get it sorted as quickly as you can, and if you are in trouble please, please, please come to your old man.

I'd tell them where they are, because I'd want them to take some ownership of sorting the problem out else you are validating the actions that lead it to get this far. 

[Gordon Bennett]

To tell a debt collection agency where your offspring lives is not throwing them under the bus.

To do so but not providing them with any assistance would be.

Of course if you can help your kids you will. But there needs to be a certain amount of trying to teach good lessons even if they are 2, 12, 22 or older. Namely here...don't do anything stupid to start with, but if you do get it sorted as quickly as you can, and if you are in trouble please, please, please come to your old man.

I'd tell them where they are, because I'd want them to take some ownership of sorting the problem out else you are validating the actions that lead it to get this far.

I don't think it's possible to teach anyone to be careful and fastidious with money..... You either are, or you aren't. It's a gene or personality trait that's hardwired and pretty unbendable. If anything, expecting them to learn "the hard way" probably just makes them worse - it drives them underground and they hide their antics from you.

[winkywanky]

Are you sure your debt was reduced?

"I had debt of around £22,000, which was reduced to £17,500, on the principle over the next 10 yrs I pay £200 per month, which I did, and last 2020, I became debt free"

£22K becomes £17.5K, becomes £24K over 10yrs...

I guess the reduction of £22K to £17.K was by debt consolidation, but that's still £6.5K interest over 10yrs. Probably not a bad APR (but I've long since forgotten how to work out that shit).

[SamOmar]

"I had debt of around £22,000, which was reduced to £17,500, on the principle over the next 10 yrs I pay £200 per month, which I did, and last 2020, I became debt free"

£22K becomes £17.5K, becomes £24K over 10yrs...

I guess the reduction of £22K to £17.K was by debt consolidation, but that's still £6.5K interest over 10yrs. Probably not a bad APR (but I've long since forgotten how to work out that shit).

Debts are sold to collection agencies for a fraction of the price, I reckon you could have negotiated your 22k debt down to 4 - 5k

[winkywanky]

I certainly agree this needs sorting asap a I posted previously. In my case for this crime I would want to sort it out with my son between us without telling him to do it himself solely. And in fact I would do the leg work as I know it would get sorted in the manner that suited me. It makes no odds to me that he is mid-20s, I would want to give him the best advice I could as well as bollocking him about it. We would then hopefully agree what to do which would be too sort it out asap and if that meant me paying whats owed I would do so. If that makes me gullible so be it, I really don't mind being seen as a soft touch with him, he is my only child, if I cant help him I dont see the point in having a child, but that's me. But that wouldn't be the case if it was a serious crime, he knows that.

Now when he was at Uni he ran up his allowed overdraft to an amount I thought was too much, under his limit but too much for my liking, he was 20 at the time. We talked and I told him to get it down by £500 or so, well he got a part-time job and did just that. Now he is looking to buy his first property with his fiancé and of course it helps to have a good credit rating. Overall I wouldnt want to see him having problems getting credit for a minor matter like fare dodging which I see it as, some will see it differently as this thread shows, his fault, his mess to sort out, a perfectly valid view to take, just not my view on this.

This would be the ideal solution, son gets the fatherly help he needs from the Bank of dad (perhaps with option of paying back the 'bank' if/when possible) with the two important criteria met: the debt gets paid off and the kid hopefully learns a valuable life lesson, perhaps with the caveat that he won't be helped out again if he gets himself in similar shit (but personal situations will vary).

In your case it sounds like you have a great relationship with your son and he sounds responsible  .

[winkywanky]

Debts are sold to collection agencies for a fraction of the price, I reckon you could have negotiated your 22k debt down to 4 - 5k

He's gonna love you telling him he 'overpaid' by several £thousands    .

[winkywanky]

I don't think it's possible to teach anyone to be careful and fastidious with money..... You either are, or you aren't. It's a gene or personality trait that's hardwired and pretty unbendable. If anything, expecting them to learn "the hard way" probably just makes them worse - it drives them underground and they hide their antics from you.

I believe you are wrong there, I'm of an age where both my parents were brought up in severe austerity (the Depression) and my dad in particular would never, ever buy anything on what was known as hire purchase (or as my dad referred to it, the never-never), he would ALWAYS save up to buy something. That was his reaction to having had to wear hand-me-down shoes from his elder sister when he was a boy, and living in a rat-infested tenement slum. It never left him, and despite being generous in many ways he was incredibly careful with money, to the nth degree.

This attitude was drummed into me, as I got older I became more pragmatic, nevertheless 99% of the time I would only buy something when I already had the money, or if I got a loan I would make sure 100% I'd be able to pay it off (only once in my life, to buy a brand new car).

Whether this would work these days is another matter, expectations are much higher, but then again, so is reliance on social assistance, there is overall less self-reliance than there used to be. Perhaps this is a step-up for society and enables it to grow better, but there are indeed many feckless people around these days, justifying their forays into crime with the 'need' to buy £300 trainers and the like.

I think this is part of the nature/nurture balance which is applicable in all areas of growing up, but if the nurture is very strong then it tips the balance IMO.

[Jimmyredcab]

Personally, as long as the paperwork clearly related to my son, I'd just give the bailiff the dosh and pay the debt. I can't be arsed with shit like that, particularly on my doorstep - I'd rather just end it.

Yes, it would end the current problem but what's to stop it happening again.   

[Rochelle]

"I had debt of around £22,000, which was reduced to £17,500, on the principle over the next 10 yrs I pay £200 per month, which I did, and last 2020, I became debt free"

£22K becomes £17.5K, becomes £24K over 10yrs...

I guess the reduction of £22K to £17.K was by debt consolidation, but that's still £6.5K interest over 10yrs. Probably not a bad APR (but I've long since forgotten how to work out that shit).

I would have expected the interest to stop in that situation. Doesn't make sense to me.

[winkywanky]

I would have expected the interest to stop in that situation. Doesn't make sense to me.

I lost interest in this thread ages ago.

[smiths]

This would be the ideal solution, son gets the fatherly help he needs from the Bank of dad (perhaps with option of paying back the 'bank' if/when possible) with the two important criteria met: the debt gets paid off and the kid hopefully learns a valuable life lesson, perhaps with the caveat that he won't be helped out again if he gets himself in similar shit (but personal situations will vary).

In your case it sounds like you have a great relationship with your son and he sounds responsible  .

Yeah apart from starting to smoke fags at 20 when he went to Uni and still does so at 26, fucking twat, I am on at him constantly about it, idiot.

[JontyR]

I lost interest in this thread ages ago.

And then you post again to compound it.

[winkywanky]

And then you post again to compound it.

It was actually a punnish joke, perhaps I should have put one of these  after it .

[JontyR]

It was actually a punnish joke, perhaps I should have put one of these  after it .

Ditto. Thought you may have found it simple?

[winkywanky]

Ditto. Thought you may have found it simple?

Found what simple?

[winkywanky]

Doh, my apologies :faceplant: 

[Xtro]

I lost interest in this thread ages ago.

       

And then you post again to compound it.

              Even better!   

[Blackpool Rock]

I would have expected the interest to stop in that situation. Doesn't make sense to me.

I would have expected the person who borrowed the money to have paid it all back in full not expect to borrow over their head living the high life and wash their hands of the debt, or am I missing something as ultimately someone foots the bill and that's everyone else 

The only exception to this IMO is where someone falls on hard times through no fault of their own such as becoming ill or getting made redundant etc.

I've known a few people who racked up debts to the point they couldn't afford the interest each month (or so they claimed) but it still didn't stop them going on holidays; changing cars; smoking and going to the pub most nights.
Rack up 20K of debt then do a voluntary arrangement paying back about 5K over 5 years, I was sat in the office once and someone I worked with got off the phone having just had their debt written down as just mentioned.
Their reaction was one of elation, both hands in the air and an exclamation "Yes, that's brilliant news, I can book that holiday now" I fucking shit you not 

[smiths]

I would have expected the person who borrowed the money to have paid it all back in full not expect to borrow over their head living the high life and wash their hands of the debt, or am I missing something as ultimately someone foots the bill and that's everyone else 

The only exception to this IMO is where someone falls on hard times through no fault of their own such as becoming ill or getting made redundant etc.

I've known a few people who racked up debts to the point they couldn't afford the interest each month (or so they claimed) but it still didn't stop them going on holidays; changing cars; smoking and going to the pub most nights.
Rack up 20K of debt then do a voluntary arrangement paying back about 5K over 5 years, I was sat in the office once and someone I worked with got off the phone having just had their debt written down as just mentioned.
Their reaction was one of elation, both hands in the air and an exclamation "Yes, that's brilliant news, I can book that holiday now" I fucking shit you not 

Yes indeed, the consumer ends up footing the bill of course. Some of these debt companies hold the view of something is better than nothing so making a lower offer or even a much lower offer suits some of them in the hope the person agrees to it and pays that amount. But its often the case these debt companies sell the debt on anyway, once they know or think the person owing is of limited income its amazing how quickly they can lose interest in really pursuing the money owed, so pass it on for a fee to someone else. They really want people who are working, earning and have something to lose, their credit rating, not that some who are of limited income don't care.

It really depends on the company owed as to how much pursuing they will do, so Barclaycard used to pursue every penny, MBNA may not of pursued £10k owed. This was a few years ago when I was connected to someone who worked in an advice capacity for people who owed money. She knew of people who owed £150k on credit cards mainly who hardly got pursued at all in the time she was dealing with them. And other people who owed £2k who got pursued a lot. Pot luck depending on the company they owed she said then. These were all that kind of debt though, cards and unsecured loans, car loans that kind of thing. She said parking tickets were really pursued by many councils as was Council Tax that being a criminal offence obviously.

She rarely came across a case where the person owing was completely potless, many had money but didn't care about paying what they owed off. In London anyway it costs to go bankrupt, a good few hundred pounds and more and she said a lot weren't prepared to pay that so did nothing instead. So they fucked their credit rating up for the foreseeable future instead of agreeing to pay what they owed.

[cotton]

Yes indeed, the consumer ends up footing the bill of course. Some of these debt companies hold the view of something is better than nothing so making a lower offer or even a much lower offer suits some of them in the hope the person agrees to it and pays that amount. But its often the case these debt companies sell the debt on anyway, once they know or think the person owing is of limited income its amazing how quickly they can lose interest in really pursuing the money owed, so pass it on for a fee to someone else. They really want people who are working, earning and have something to lose, their credit rating, not that some who are of limited income don't care.

It really depends on the company owed as to how much pursuing they will do, so Barclaycard used to pursue every penny, MBNA may not of pursued £10k owed. This was a few years ago when I was connected to someone who worked in an advice capacity for people who owed money. She knew of people who owed £150k on credit cards mainly who hardly got pursued at all in the time she was dealing with them. And other people who owed £2k who got pursued a lot. Pot luck depending on the company they owed she said then. These were all that kind of debt though, cards and unsecured loans, car loans that kind of thing. She said parking tickets were really pursued by many councils as was Council Tax that being a criminal offence obviously.

She rarely came across a case where the person owing was completely potless, many had money but didn't care about paying what they owed off. In London anyway it costs to go bankrupt, a good few hundred pounds and more and she said a lot weren't prepared to pay that so did nothing instead. So they fucked their credit rating up for the foreseeable future instead of agreeing to pay what they owed.

As far as i understand it non payment of council tax is not a criminal offence .
As per link ; "Non-payment of council tax is not a criminal offence. But under a law, dating back to the scrapping of the poll tax, councils can apply for a “committal order”, where a debtor can be imprisoned for up to three months."
External Link/Members Only

[smiths]

As far as i understand it non payment of council tax is not a criminal offence .
As per link ; "Non-payment of council tax is not a criminal offence. But under a law, dating back to the scrapping of the poll tax, councils can apply for a “committal order”, where a debtor can be imprisoned for up to three months."
External Link/Members Only

So a person can be sent to prison by a court for up to 3 months for refusing to pay their owed council tax as a last resort and some people have been sent to prison for this, some wrongly according to some so called experts.

 I assume if you get sent to prison its for a criminal offence. So once the court sends you to prison does it not become a criminal offence you have committed. If not then I am wrong, do courts send people to prison for non criminal offences.

[cotton]

So a person can be sent to prison by a court for up to 3 months for refusing to pay their owed council tax as a last resort and some people have been sent to prison for this, some wrongly according to some so called experts.

 I assume if you get sent to prison its for a criminal offence. So once the court sends you to prison does it not become a criminal offence you have committed. If not then I am wrong, do courts send people to prison for non criminal offences.

A committal Order is an order used to send someone to prison for contempt of court.
Contempt of court can be civil or criminal in nature. This means that conduct that is not itself a criminal offence can still be punishable by the court. Criminal contempt goes beyond simple non-compliance with a court order.
So yes you can be sent to prison for non criminal offences.

[Boristheboy]

I notice after three pages there still seems to be some confusion over whether the payment is being collected by bailiffs, or debt collectors.
They are not the same thing. Bailiffs are used for collecting when there has been a court judgement, and they have more powers than debt collectors.
Neither of them can increase the amount they are required to collect over time except when the debt itself actually increases, e.g paying back interest over time. However, debt collectors will often try to increase the amount they are charging to scare you into paying, in which case tell them they can't do that, and inform the ombudsman.
However, in either case, the OP is not liable for the debt, in which case bailiffs shouldn't be calling because the son's address will have been established by the court when the case was served, and debt collectors aren't legally allowed to hassle anyone who isn't the debtor.

[standardpostage]

I notice after three pages there still seems to be some confusion over whether the payment is being collected by bailiffs, or debt collectors.
They are not the same thing. Bailiffs are used for collecting when there has been a court judgement, and they have more powers than debt collectors.
Neither of them can increase the amount they are required to collect over time except when the debt itself actually increases, e.g paying back interest over time. However, debt collectors will often try to increase the amount they are charging to scare you into paying, in which case tell them they can't do that, and inform the ombudsman.
However, in either case, the OP is not liable for the debt, in which case bailiffs shouldn't be calling because the son's address will have been established by the court when the case was served, and debt collectors aren't legally allowed to hassle anyone who isn't the debtor.

Thanks for input. Appreciated. From what you say, I think, it may have been debt collectors who hand delivered the letters.
I have not been contacted by them since my original post. I will update if they contact me again.

[myothernameis]

it may have been debt collectors who hand delivered the letters.
I have not been contacted by them since my original post. I will update if they contact me again.

I would assume, you could check the company out online, and also if they have a web site.   If they have a web site, it might also tell you, who they are contracted to work for, like the railway companies

If there was something like this on there web site, it might give them more legal rights to chase any debts, owed to ticket fines

[standardpostage]

I would assume, you could check the company out online, and also if they have a web site.   If they have a web site, it might also tell you, who they are contracted to work for, like the railway companies

If there was something like this on there web site, it might give them more legal rights to chase any debts, owed to ticket fines

Just checked online. It's CDER group. Enforcement and debt recovery providers. External Link/Members Only.
Owned by a Chinese venture capitalist.
I looked on the Companies House listing.

[Blackpool Rock]

Just checked online. It's CDER group. Enforcement and debt recovery providers. External Link/Members Only.
Owned by a Chinese venture capitalist.
I looked on the Companies House listing.

Chinese companies sell UK companies things which aren't as described all the time then refuse to replace or compensate, perhaps you could just boycott the payment 

Oh no I just remembered we play by the rules 

[advent2016]

Had 2 hand delivered letters from bailiffs 

One of my children who does not live at home, and has not for a few years, got fined for not having a valid ticket on a train.
They have not paid the fine. It has now reached about £700 because of fees etc.

They gave my address, even though they do not live with me. My child is over 21 years of age.

Should I be worried ?

I haven't had a ticket checked on a train for over a year but still I(or my employer) always purchase one. I would get some legal advice and ask for it to be heard in court if it  is a one off as recently they often offer no evidence and it is quashed.

I've had a few employees who haven't bought tickets, told me it was a one off but the revenue protection then showed evidence that they had been evading a fare for months. Transport these days has numerous cameras. Still they may be willing to accept money owed and maybe use it as a warning in advertising.