2 Hand delivered letters from bailiffs :-(

[winkywanky]

But the takeaway message from those TV shows is to sort it, because bailiffs charge their quarry for everything they do in pursuing them.

That attempted saving on a rail fare could end up costing thousands.

Absolutely that! 

[myothernameis]

But the takeaway message from those TV shows is to sort it, because bailiffs charge their quarry for everything they do in pursuing them.

That attempted saving on a rail fare could end up costing thousands.

And not forgetting the credit rating, either by address or person, so if your son or daughter was trying to get a loan, or mortgage, they might be refused

[winkywanky]

And not forgetting the credit rating, either by address or person, so if your son or daughter was trying to get a loan, or mortgage, they might be refused

Indeed, and knowing how gormless and blunt (as well as opaque) that system can be, it might be the OP's credit rating which is affected as well as his son's.

[myothernameis]

Indeed, and knowing how gormless and blunt (as well as opaque) that system can be, it might be the OP's credit rating which is affected as well as his son's.

To the op, I would suggest you check out one of the many credit agency, and see what is on there file, and how it affect your self, or your children

This also might work in your favor, especially if your children are not registered at your address

[Paris69]

FFS. This thread is ridiculous.
Have some of you no work to go to or WG's to shag......

The OP isn't responsible for his 21 year old's debt.
I mentioned in post number 5 what he needed to do.. That's it.
This isn't rocket science

[winkywanky]

FFS. This thread is ridiculous.
Have some of you no work to go to or WG's to shag......

The OP isn't responsible for his 21 year old's debt.
I mentioned in post number 5 what he needed to do.. That's it.
This isn't rocket science

Ah, and you are the all-knowing oracle, are you?

We're talking about it, if you have no further interest in it then it's ridiculous for you to still be making comment, is it not? 

[winkywanky]

FFS. This thread is ridiculous.
Have some of you no work to go to or WG's to shag......

And in case you hadn't noticed (as you gallavant around Europe for your awfully important job) there's a pandemic on and many guys are choosing not to punt and add needlessly to the daily figures.

[Paris69]

Ah, and you are the all-knowing oracle, are you?

We're talking about it, if you have no further interest in it then it's ridiculous for you to still be making comment, is it not? 

Yep. I am

[winkywanky]

Yep. I am

In which case you've said your piece and you can piss off now then, can't you?

[Paris69]

And in case you hadn't noticed (as you gallavant around Europe for your awfully important job) there's a pandemic on and many guys are choosing not to punt and add needlessly to the daily figures.

 
Now, now...... Happy to exchange text photos with you from my travels.....

Hmmm.. just thinking: Not sure i said i was important; that was you extrapolating the fact i travel and have exclusions... all the while sitting vegetating at home.

 

But i do get that some are at home cos they are at risk or are old; so are bored. As i am at the moment; in my hotel after work.
Must find something more productive to do: This aint healthy.. 

[winkywanky]

Now, now...... Happy to exchange texts with you from my travels.....

Hmmm.. just thinking: Not sure i said i was important; that was you extrapolating the fact i travel and have exclusions... all the while sitting vegetating at home.

 

The tone of your comment(s) made it blatantly obvious, or perhaps you were simply luxuriating in your superiority and failed to notice that?

[Paris69]

The tone of your comment(s) made it blatantly obvious, or perhaps you were simply luxuriating in your superiority and failed to notice that?

   Superiority. Interesting analysis by you.......

[winkywanky]

   Superiority. Interesting analysis by you.......

You suddenly reappear and proclaim you put the thread to bed several posts ago with your concise assessment of the situation, is there any other conclusion to be drawn from your pompous post?

I think (very) not.

Like I said, if you have nothing further to add, and people are still talking, then you can always simply piss off  .

[daviemac]

And in case you hadn't noticed (as you gallavant around Europe for your awfully important job) there's a pandemic on and many guys are choosing not to punt and add needlessly to the daily figures.

Happy to exchange text photos with you from my travels.....

Seems to be a bit of a trend.

I'll trade you educational / professional certs any day and happy to swap by text.

   

[bugsybum]

I visit the USA and it would comprimise this getting an esta visa for example.

Its a strange one because the ESTA and US customs have no access to UK criminal records so if you keep quiet on any offences you have when you do your ESTA they have no way of finding out if your telling the truth or not and you will get through US customs without any problems. IF you have a record and tell the truth when applying for your visa through the ESTA it will mean you will have to go through the US embassy and looking online this is a real drawn out process that takes months to do and will end up with a meeting at the US embassy in London to see if you will be granted a visa which is no sure thing.

I remember about 10 years ago my brother in law went on a stag to Vegas and there was about 30 lads with about half of them having records and some had done a bit of bird and they never had no problems with US customs and got through easily. They just bullshitted on the ESTA and had no problems, if they had told the truth they would have been refused Visa's and couldnt go. The ESTA is pointless really and is just a shakedown, doing a bit of research the only records ESTA and US customs have access to is if your wanted by Interpol or on some kind of terrorist list.

[cotton]

Its a strange one because the ESTA and US customs have no access to UK criminal records so if you keep quiet on any offences you have when you do your ESTA they have no way of finding out if your telling the truth or not and you will get through US customs without any problems. IF you have a record and tell the truth when applying for your visa through the ESTA it will mean you will have to go through the US embassy and looking online this is a real drawn out process that takes months to do and will end up with a meeting at the US embassy in London to see if you will be granted a visa which is no sure thing.

I remember about 10 years ago my brother in law went on a stag to Vegas and there was about 30 lads with about half of them having records and some had done a bit of bird and they never had no problems with US customs and got through easily. They just bullshitted on the ESTA and had no problems, if they had told the truth they would have been refused Visa's and couldnt go. The ESTA is pointless really and is just a shakedown, doing a bit of research the only records ESTA and US customs have access to is if your wanted by Interpol or on some kind of terrorist list.

Interesting info - thanks 

[petermisc]

There was just one tall & large man, who came in a black van, with ENFORCEMENT written on the side in white letters.
I told him "that person does not live here" he said " I don't believe you" and went away.

That suggests they have found corroborating evidence to indicate that the child is living at your address.  Does the child still appear on the electoral roll as still living at your address?  Is he still using your address for mail, or any other reason that could cause the bailiffs to believe that he is still living at home?  If there is evidence to indicate that he is still living at your address, then just saying he doesn't isn't likely to cut much ice, and there is a danger that your address could get linked to the debt.  If the OP wants to avoid this, he needs to provide some counter evidence that the child is not still living at home, and the easiest way to do this is to give the child's current address.

[Rochelle]

That suggests they have found corroborating evidence to indicate that the child is living at your address.  Does the child still appear on the electoral roll as still living at your address?  Is he still using your address for mail, or any other reason that could cause the bailiffs to believe that he is still living at home?  If there is evidence to indicate that he is still living at your address, then just saying he doesn't isn't likely to cut much ice, and there is a danger that your address could get linked to the debt.  If the OP wants to avoid this, he needs to provide some counter evidence that the child is not still living at home, and the easiest way to do this is to give the child's current address.

He doesn't have to give his child's current address, so I would suggest to the OP not to do so.

[cotton]

That suggests they have found corroborating evidence to indicate that the child is living at your address.  Does the child still appear on the electoral roll as still living at your address?  Is he still using your address for mail, or any other reason that could cause the bailiffs to believe that he is still living at home?  If there is evidence to indicate that he is still living at your address, then just saying he doesn't isn't likely to cut much ice, and there is a danger that your address could get linked to the debt.  If the OP wants to avoid this, he needs to provide some counter evidence that the child is not still living at home, and the easiest way to do this is to give the child's current address.

Or that the Bailiff is just used to being lied to and consequently has the demeanour of a person who is used to being lied to and made a monkey of and isnt receptive to or interested in listening to any genuinely offered information and is only interested in browbeating his money irrrespective of anything else or any any other facts.

[Jimmyredcab]

He doesn't have to give his child's current address, so I would suggest to the OP not to do so.

I agree.

I would tell the bailiffs that I lent him £1000 and have not heard from him since.     

Why on earth would you "grass up" your own son.     

[yandex]

Why on earth would you "grass up" your own son.     

Because he's not a child and his actions have/are causing a lot of problems. Time for him to face the consequences of his actions - something you and several others are keen to insist happens to another young person in a different thread. Not that I equate the severity of the crimes, but crimes they are, and no-one should be above the law. 

[catweazle]

Its a strange one because the ESTA and US customs have no access to UK criminal records so if you keep quiet on any offences you have when you do your ESTA they have no way of finding out if your telling the truth or not and you will get through US customs without any problems. IF you have a record and tell the truth when applying for your visa through the ESTA it will mean you will have to go through the US embassy and looking online this is a real drawn out process that takes months to do and will end up with a meeting at the US embassy in London to see if you will be granted a visa which is no sure thing.

I remember about 10 years ago my brother in law went on a stag to Vegas and there was about 30 lads with about half of them having records and some had done a bit of bird and they never had no problems with US customs and got through easily. They just bullshitted on the ESTA and had no problems, if they had told the truth they would have been refused Visa's and couldnt go. The ESTA is pointless really and is just a shakedown, doing a bit of research the only records ESTA and US customs have access to is if your wanted by Interpol or on some kind of terrorist list.

While US homeland security may not have access to uk criminal records,, from time to time, the UK police do pass info over the pond.

A former colleague, while seriously drunk,  tried chatting up a girl in a bar. He went too far, tried to kiss her and squeezed her bum. He was arrested, and ended up with a caution.

A few weeks later he received an email informing him his ESTA had been cancelled.

They don't tell you why at the time. He tried for a visa through the Embassy, and had to obtain and submit beforehand  his police record.

The embassy refused him a visa

[Xtro]

I agree.

I would tell the bailiffs that I lent him £1000 and have not heard from him since.     

Why on earth would you "grass up" your own son.    

Because he's a cunt!   

[daviemac]

Because he's not a child and his actions have/are causing a lot of problems. Time for him to face the consequences of his actions - something you and several others are keen to insist happens to another young person in a different thread. Not that I equate the severity of the crimes, but crimes they are, and no-one should be above the law. 

There is no legal requirement for anyone to disclose another person's address to bailiffs. If it were me I would not tell then under any circumstances, I would however contact my child and do whatever I could to help them sort it out.

I was brought up to believe, as a parent, I have a duty of care to my children no matter what age they are.  The degree of care does vary from total as an infant to help, support and advice when older. Throwing them under the bus doesn't enter the equation as far as I'm concerned.  They are bailiffs not police. 

[winkywanky]

Because he's not a child and his actions have/are causing a lot of problems. Time for him to face the consequences of his actions - something you and several others are keen to insist happens to another young person in a different thread. Not that I equate the severity of the crimes, but crimes they are, and no-one should be above the law. 

Yes, the level of hypocrisy is staggering (but from the usual sources, so of little surprise) .

[Rochelle]

Yes, the level of hypocrisy is staggering (but from the usual sources, so of little surprise) .

Hardly the same thing though, is it winky? He's under no obligation to tell them where his child lives. Also, he's not exactly harbouring a fugitive. They're not going to arrest him when they find him.

[petermisc]

Why on earth would you "grass up" your own son.     

Put it another way, why would your son drop this shit on your doorstep, and expect you to deal with it?

[Rochelle]

Put it another way, why would your son drop this shit on your doorstep, and expect you to deal with it?

Meh. People fuck up. Why throw the child under the bus? Adult or not, still his child.
You never know what's going on in someone's head. Better to contact the child and try to sort it between them first.

And before anyone asks, I wouldn't feel the same if the circumstances were different and it was a serious crime and the police were after them. But that's not the case here and the police aren't involved.


P.S. Everyone still keeps going back to "son" as default.

[yandex]

I was brought up to believe, as a parent, I have a duty of care to my children no matter what age they are.  The degree of care does vary from total as an infant to help, support and advice when older. Throwing them under the bus doesn't enter the equation as far as I'm concerned.  They are bailiffs not police.

Sorry Davie but in general terms that doesn't add up. Children grow up and become adults and breaking the law is not acceptable. This is why so many people get away with horrible crimes, their parents and friends deny knowledge and stick to silence when they know they should do better by the victim. I answered JRC's question in the broadest sense.

In this case I agree, I'd be trying to get my child to sort it out first and I wouldn't be letting any bailiff know. I'd equally make the fuckwit child know the limits of my patience, which in this regard would already be pretty thin. There has to have been some communication arriving at the house before the bailiffs arrived so the child has already demonstrated that they either don't give a shit, or they've hoped it'll all go away.

It's not 'throwing them under a bus' to make them realise that thoughtless/selfish actions have consequences and if that means contacting the rail company, then so be it.

[petermisc]

There is no legal requirement for anyone to disclose another person's address to bailiffs. If it were me I would not tell then under any circumstances, I would however contact my child and do whatever I could to help them sort it out.

I was brought up to believe, as a parent, I have a duty of care to my children no matter what age they are.  The degree of care does vary from total as an infant to help, support and advice when older. Throwing them under the bus doesn't enter the equation as far as I'm concerned.  They are bailiffs not police.

It is not throwing them under the bus, it is teaching them the valuable life lesson that they have to behave like an adult, and not expect others to clear up their mess for them.  Fully agree that you should give your child the first chance to sort it, but if they won't, the problem will not go away.  And agreed that there is no legal requirement to disclose another person's address to bailiffs, but there are potential consequences in not doing so that could cause a lot of trouble and  inconvenience to put right.

[winkywanky]

Hardly the same thing though, is it winky? He's under no obligation to tell them where his child lives. Also, he's not exactly harbouring a fugitive. They're not going to arrest him when they find him.

The basic principle at stake here is exactly as Yandex described: have the right attitude and the balls to deal with the consequences of your actions. In this particular instance we're talking about a young lad with his life in front of him, running away from stuff like this will never end well and it tends to implicate others. The longer you leave it and the more you try to wriggle out of it, the worse it gets. Sounds to me like he needs to learn a life lesson  .

As I said earlier, I don't know the exact situation between father and son here but clearly this has turned into a mess, potentially for both of them. The longer it gets left, the more expense and the more angst is created, as well as potential future problems with credit rating etc.

May be I'm being thick/gullible, but that way I see it is very simple, do the right thing and pay your debts.

[petermisc]

Or that the Bailiff is just used to being lied to and consequently has the demeanour of a person who is used to being lied to and made a monkey of and isnt receptive to or interested in listening to any genuinely offered information and is only interested in browbeating his money irrrespective of anything else or any any other facts.

Except that the OP doesn't seem to be offering any useful information to them.  You only have to watch a few of these sheriff programmes on the telly to realise how many times they are told "no longer lives here" when the person patently does.  If they have something to indicate that the person does live there, they are not going to be fobbed off with that.

[winkywanky]

You never know what's going on in someone's head. Better to contact the child and try to sort it between them first.

And before anyone asks, I wouldn't feel the same if the circumstances were different and it was a serious crime and the police were after them. But that's not the case here and the police aren't involved.

This is true, and I said this earlier: he needs to talk to his son to get his side of the story. And then take it from there. But it won't just 'go away', it needs to be dealt with, the sooner the better.

[Jimmyredcab]

There is no legal requirement for anyone to disclose another person's address to bailiffs. If it were me I would not tell then under any circumstances, I would however contact my child and do whatever I could to help them sort it out.

I was brought up to believe, as a parent, I have a duty of care to my children no matter what age they are.  The degree of care does vary from total as an infant to help, support and advice when older. Throwing them under the bus doesn't enter the equation as far as I'm concerned.  They are bailiffs not police.

Wow.     1000% correct.     

Grassing up your child to bailiffs is throwing them under the bus, that’s not my opinion, it’s a fact.   

[daviemac]

Sorry Davie but in general terms that doesn't add up. Children grow up and become adults and breaking the law is not acceptable. This is why so many people get away with horrible crimes, their parents and friends deny knowledge and stick to silence when they know they should do better by the victim. I answered JRC's question in the broadest sense.

In this case I agree, I'd be trying to get my child to sort it out first and I wouldn't be letting any bailiff know. I'd equally make the fuckwit child know the limits of my patience, which in this regard would already be pretty thin. There has to have been some communication arriving at the house before the bailiffs arrived so the child has already demonstrated that they either don't give a shit, or they've hoped it'll all go away.

It's not 'throwing them under a bus' to make them realise that thoughtless/selfish actions have consequences and if that means contacting the rail company, then so be it.

I don't know about you but I am discussing this particular incident, I have not said I would condone my children breaking the law. What I have said is I would not give out their contact details to a bailiff in a civil enforcement action, I would ensure they dealt with it in the appropriate way of their own accord.

To clarify my comments relate to bailiffs knocking on my door looking to enforce a civil action, what I would do if they actually committed a serious crime and it was the police knocking on the door is a totally different matter and would require a vastly different approach.

[smiths]

I love my mid-20s aged son and I wouldn't grass him up to some Bailiff over this. IF he had raped and killed someone yes but not for this. I wouldn't tell the bailiffs where he lived and I am under no legal obligation to do so at this stage.

What I would do is talk to him and tell him dodging public transport fares is a crime and fucking stupid and give him a bollocking,, then give him the money to pay this off if he agreed not to do it again. Now I know that doesn't guarantee he wouldn't do this again or something else in the future but it would sort this matter out.


Not sorting it out will lead to more problems so get it sorted asap would be my logic.

[smiths]

I don't know about you but I am discussing this particular incident, I have not said I would condone my children breaking the law. What I have said is I would not give out their contact details to a bailiff in a civil enforcement action, I would ensure they dealt with it in the appropriate way of their own accord.

To clarify my comments relate to bailiffs knocking on my door looking to enforce a civil action, what I would do if they actually committed a serious crime and it was the police knocking on the door is a totally different matter and would require a vastly different approach.

Indeed, some of the posts on this thread make it sound as though a serious crime was committed, its fare dodging FFS. Yes it is a crime and is wrong and I would have a go at my son about it but I wouldn't grass him up over it. I would help him sort it out and get an assurance which I know may prove to be crap that he wont do it again, or break the law.

If he did commit a serious crime then that's an entirely different matter in my opinion.

[jonnw16]

.
.
But if the son lived at the same address as dad then their is a hassle factor possible plus the possibility of credit problems on the address. Basically son could give dads address a bad name when dad is trying to get a loan later on. Hopefully it could get sorted out but as I said there may be a hassle factor.

Since nobody has rebutted this incorrect statement, and a few other posts have alluded to it, I will point this out. Addresses do not have credit problems. A specific person (name and date of birth) at an address can have a credit problem.

[myothernameis]

It has now reached about £700 because of fees etc.

There one way for your son/daughter to deal with this, would be to contact a debt management company, and if they go to there local CAB office they will do this with no fees

The debt management company, can set up a payment plan, and your son/daughter could pay what they afford per month, so maybe £20 per month, for two years.  At the end of the two years, the remaining £220 could be written of

I had debt of around £22,000, which was reduced to £17,500, on the principle over the next 10 yrs I pay £200 per month, which I did, and last 2020, I became debt free

[cotton]

There one way for your son/daughter to deal with this, would be to contact a debt management company, and if they go to there local CAB office they will do this with no fees

The debt management company, can set up a payment plan, and your son/daughter could pay what they afford per month, so maybe £20 per month, for two years.  At the end of the two years, the remaining £220 could be written of

I had debt of around £22,000, which was reduced to £17,500, on the principle over the next 10 yrs I pay £200 per month, which I did, and last 2020, I became debt free

Or just dont pay anything

[yandex]

Indeed, some of the posts on this thread make it sound as though a serious crime was committed, its fare dodging FFS. Yes it is a crime and is wrong and I would have a go at my son about it but I wouldn't grass him up over it. I would help him sort it out and get an assurance which I know may prove to be crap that he wont do it again, or break the law.

If he did commit a serious crime then that's an entirely different matter in my opinion.

What if he doesn't want to sort it out?

I agree with your sentiment BUT I hate this 'it's not a serious crime' shit. Who are we to judge the 'seriousness' of a crime?

So it's fare dodging, no big deal. The trouble is, if everyone is allowed to get away with dodging the rail fare, the prices go up. We all end up paying for it. I don't think that's acceptable - perhaps you do, but presumably only if it's your flesh and blood. 

I have kids, they've done some stupid things in their time, so have I. Like you, I'd be very clear that they need to sort it, but I would also have no problem with sorting it for them if they took the piss. If that is 'grassing them up' then so be it.

I know, I sound like a pompous arse writing writing to the Daily Mail. 

[Jimmyredcab]

I agree with your sentiment BUT I hate this 'it's not a serious crime' shit. Who are we to judge the 'seriousness' of a crime?

It’s simply common sense, you don’t need legal qualifications.

Mugging an old lady to steal her pension is a serious crime, not paying your fare is nothing to be proud of but hardly crime of the century.     

[myothernameis]

The op might get more help from this railway forum, which has a section for fare avoiders, and fixed fines

External Link/Members Only

[daviemac]

Since nobody has rebutted this incorrect statement, and a few other posts have alluded to it, I will point this out. Addresses do not have credit problems. A specific person (name and date of birth) at an address can have a credit problem.

You are wrong, the address can be blacklisted. It is easy to overcome, you just need to prove you have just moved in and have lived elsewhere prior. They then use your previous address for credit purposes.

This is from my own personal experience with a family member.

[cotton]

What if he doesn't want to sort it out?

I agree with your sentiment BUT I hate this 'it's not a serious crime' shit. Who are we to judge the 'seriousness' of a crime?

So it's fare dodging, no big deal. The trouble is, if everyone is allowed to get away with dodging the rail fare, the prices go up. We all end up paying for it. I don't think that's acceptable - perhaps you do, but presumably only if it's your flesh and blood. 

I have kids, they've done some stupid things in their time, so have I. Like you, I'd be very clear that they need to sort it, but I would also have no problem with sorting it for them if they took the piss. If that is 'grassing them up' then so be it.

I know, I sound like a pompous arse writing writing to the Daily Mail. 

If he dosnt want to sort it out you tell the bailif hes dosnt live at the given address , thats all you need to do.
And just tell your kid not to give your address in future.
The bailiffs may come back one or 2 times but they arnt in the business of wasting their time if theres no prospect of getting their money, they will just give up. End off.

[daviemac]

The op might get more help from this railway forum, which has a section for fare avoiders, and fixed fines

External Link/Members Only

Posted in reply #19. 

[yandex]

It’s simply common sense, you don’t need legal qualifications.

Mugging an old lady to steal her pension is a serious crime, not paying your fare is nothing to be proud of but hardly crime of the century.     

You're ok with me taking a taxi across London and then doing a runner then?

I don't know why I'm getting so bothered about this, best if I go and get a cup of tea and chill out......

[finn5555]

Had 2 hand delivered letters from bailiffs 

Should I be worried ?

Yes move house ASAP  , I would say move countries but that would cost you £5K to come back 

[Jimmyredcab]

You're ok with me taking a taxi across London and then doing a runner then?

I retired two years ago.     

Anyway, dodgepots had to pay me upfront.   

[Paris69]

Seems to be a bit of a trend.
   

Hey; it's cos I'm happy to back up who I am, and what i know... Not hide behind some bullshit smart arse posts...
Do i know everything, def not... But at least i'm willing to stand up with facts rather than pretend/Google answers as many do

Ive bumped into some on here who actually are specialists in certain areas and it's really funny when i see posters, incl Mods taking them to task like they have a clue.

Freedom of speech post...... Isn't that how it works.

My offer still stands... Why wouldn't it? Cos it's not me being phoney.... I don't need Google. If i don't know something i'm happy to say so.
Take that however you want