Electric Cars

[Watts.E.Dunn]

I read somewhere that Nissian were closing one production line at thier Sunderland factory and were negoiating with the Chinese to use the other one to build Chinese cars in England!.

Worked OK for the Japs so should be OK with the Chinese?...

[PilotMan]

If they could get shell et all  to pay their corporation tax that they haven't paid for 5 years then their would be billions more for the government to spend for the goods of the uk.

Sadly it never filters down the ladder.

Shell pay the tax on their UK profits, they pay tax in other countries for profits earnt there.

[Punting2022]

However it will ensure reliable supply, gas too
Well it would if the present Govt not so intent on their wokey green bollocks shagging the north sea jobs & the support businesses that go with it
Am good to continue on politics ... drill baby

Drill Baby drill is the right slogan here. Trump is right on one thing.

[m4rmite]

Shell pay the tax on their UK profits, they pay tax in other countries for profits earnt there.

are you sure?

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only  but then they dodged it with "R&D" costs

[Blackpool Rock]

are you sure?

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only  but then they dodged it with "R&D" costs

Yeah they've basically been using loopholes for years to pay fuck all or next to fuck all / only a fraction of what they should be paying

[WASA38]

Drill Baby drill is the right slogan here. Trump is right on one thing.

 

You, Trump and everybody taking that view are science ignoramuses.

The evidence for anthromorphic climate change is irrefutable and the rate of that change is increasing exponentially.

That said there is arguably some case for exploiting the North Sea reserves to their modest full. Since the orange madman is determined to damn the future of planet earth we might as well seek to maintain as high a living standard as possible before facing the apocalypse.

Although such exploitation would not reduce the cost of fuel it could raise some much needed tax revenue.

[webpunter]

Drill Baby drill is the right slogan here. Trump is right on one thing.

 

[PilotMan]

Yeah they've basically been using loopholes for years to pay fuck all or next to fuck all / only a fraction of what they should be paying

Every business and individual has the opportunity to reduce their tax by using whatever approved schemes (loopholes as you refer to them) HMRC make available. It's strategic decision, I do it in my business.

I don't get called out in the press, because nobody gives a fuck about me. It's only because Shell is a huge public company that we find it offensive.

You've only got to look at the Finance & Investment thread on here to see that a key factor in a persons investment decisions, is the tax treatment of said investment.

As businesses and individuals, we are all looking to keep more of what we make, by legitimately finding ways to pay less tax.

[PilotMan]

are you sure?

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only  but then they dodged it with "R&D" costs

Yes, I'm sure. The article you linked to confirms it.

"At the time, Shell said that because it had made large investments in the UK it had not made a profit in the country and was therefore not required to pay taxes."
[/i]
If one reads the article objectively, you will also note the following;

"Oil and gas firms operating in the North Sea are taxed differently to other companies.

They pay 30% corporation tax on their profits as well as a supplementary 10% rate. On top of that, they now pay the windfall tax taking their total tax rate to 75%."


Oil companies and a few other industries (e.g. Banks) are treated as a cash cow by HMRC, their tax treatment is different to other industries. Can you blame them?

[Blackpool Rock]

Every business and individual has the opportunity to reduce their tax by using whatever approved schemes (loopholes as you refer to them) HMRC make available. It's strategic decision, I do it in my business.

I don't get called out in the press, because nobody gives a fuck about me. It's only because Shell is a huge public company that we find it offensive.

You've only got to look at the Finance & Investment thread on here to see that a key factor in a persons investment decisions, is the tax treatment of said investment.

As businesses and individuals, we are all looking to keep more of what we make, by legitimately finding ways to pay less tax.

You are right that individuals and businesses do and indeed probably should look at ways to reduce their tax however some of these massive multinationals do it literally on an industrial scale
How is it right that multi multi millionaires / billionaires and massive multi national companies can end up paying less tax than someone working 40 hours a week on minimum wage 

Edit - i've just realised this isn't the finance thread or the politics one either and i'm sure this discussion has already been had on those before 

[m4rmite]

Every business and individual has the opportunity to reduce their tax by using whatever approved schemes (loopholes as you refer to them) HMRC make available. It's strategic decision, I do it in my business.

I don't get called out in the press, because nobody gives a fuck about me. It's only because Shell is a huge public company that we find it offensive.

You've only got to look at the Finance & Investment thread on here to see that a key factor in a persons investment decisions, is the tax treatment of said investment.

As businesses and individuals, we are all looking to keep more of what we make, by legitimately finding ways to pay less tax.

certainly can't blame them , I'd like to know if that investment was made in the uk if they're including it against uk costs.
They also receive refunds from the government.

Net Refunds: In 2024, it was reported that Shell received a net refund of roughly £12.4 million from the UK government. Similar reports showed a refund of over £92 million in 2021, and earlier, more than $120m in 2015.

And regions for cleaning up the mess they made.
Decommissioning Relief: Shell describes these payments as tax relief for decommissioning old oil platforms. U

[Steve2]

Hidden Image/Members Only

[TallnHung]

Hidden Image/Members Only

Those of us who have had a few knew already

[Steve2]

Those of us who have had a few knew already

Just passing the news on to the non-believers

[PilotMan]

Hidden Image/Members Only

Hopefully they sorted out their quality issues, especially the shut lines. They were more like "cut and shut" lines on the ones I saw 

Even if they are good cars now, most Tesla owners are sycophantic Muskovites, so any survey results would be tainted with the aroma of "Musk Love". They fawn over anything with a Musk badge on it. It's one of the reasons why his companies are so overvalued, due to his fan boys.

[PilotMan]

I had to laugh at this owners quote in the survey about her Tesla Model 3

Charlotte, is a district nurse in Somerset.

“The performance is one of the things I like the most,” Charlotte said. “I know that if I need to, I can get out of trouble easily.”

What trouble is she going to accelerate her way out of, a herd of wild elephants on Exmoor, or a limestone landslide  🤣🤣

I also noted that 3 of the top 10 cars are Vauxhall's - I'm not sure how to put that in to perspective. Maybe there's a particular type of person that enters an Auto Express survey 

[webpunter]

Hidden Image/Members Only

Best electric car ... probably, especially for the masses

Best car ... not even close.  There are sooo many better cars the list is endless

There are some really good EVs however to give Tesla the 'best car' status is disingenuous headline grabbing

[PilotMan]

 to give Tesla the 'best car' status is disingenuous headline grabbing

It's the results of a survey of Auto Express readers.

[webpunter]

It's the results of a survey of Auto Express readers.

That says it all
Read Daily Express readers
The weather the royals & [now] EVs is what they like 
If an EV suited me i'd get one & likely a Tesla

There are soo many better cars - assuming you have something about you
For the price of a Tesla
M4 911
A real car especially for the weekend Sir

Imagine trying to line up a FAF civvy [if you do this] - M4 911 Tesla
Which is best ?

[Blackpool Rock]

Hopefully they sorted out their quality issues, especially the shut lines. They were more like "cut and shut" lines on the ones I saw 

Even if they are good cars now, most Tesla owners are sycophantic Muskovites, so any survey results would be tainted with the aroma of "Musk Love". They fawn over anything with a Musk badge on it. It's one of the reasons why his companies are so overvalued, due to his fan boys.

Yeah I know one, Hero Worship doesn't even come close to describe what he thinks and says about Musk, seems to hang on his every word

[Blackpool Rock]

I had to laugh at this owners quote in the survey about her Tesla Model 3

Charlotte, is a district nurse in Somerset.

“The performance is one of the things I like the most,” Charlotte said. “I know that if I need to, I can get out of trouble easily.”

What trouble is she going to accelerate her way out of, a herd of wild elephants on Exmoor, or a limestone landslide  🤣🤣

I also noted that 3 of the top 10 cars are Vauxhall's - I'm not sure how to put that in to perspective. Maybe there's a particular type of person that enters an Auto Express survey 

Hmmm yes I was under the impression that Vauxhalls didn't usually do too well in satisfaction surveys and a lot of the top cars were Japanese over the last 20 or 30 years, exceptions apply such as Nissan's which were in the top 10 but have slid out since Renault took over and started putting their parts / engines etc into them and the quality / reliability went downhill.

The other thing with these surveys in terms of satisfaction is that the types of people buying certain Marques is IMO quite different.
I've looked before and if you pick out equivalent model cars from the VAG then more often than not what is in effect the same car using a slightly different body and badge then you'll find the Skoda comes out top followed by the Seat then the VW and finally the Audi however your average Skoda owner is IMO far more easily satisfied than your average Audi owner 

[Private Parts]

"your average Skoda owner is IMO far more easily satisfied than your average Audi owner  "

I have both. A Superb and an A3 s line.
I am never satisfied.

[WASA38]

I had to laugh at this owners quote in the survey about her Tesla Model 3

Charlotte, is a district nurse in Somerset.

“The performance is one of the things I like the most,” Charlotte said. “I know that if I need to, I can get out of trouble easily.”

What trouble is she going to accelerate her way out of, a herd of wild elephants on Exmoor, or a limestone landslide  🤣🤣

I also noted that 3 of the top 10 cars are Vauxhall's - I'm not sure how to put that in to perspective. Maybe there's a particular type of person that enters an Auto Express survey 

Safely completing an ill-judged overtake perhaps.

[PilotMan]

Safely completing an ill-judged overtake perhaps.

A District Nurse making risky manoeuvres 

[Blackpool Rock]

A District Nurse making risky manoeuvres 

Was she on an e-bike 

[Jonestown]

My ICE car definitely does not like living and being driven in 20mph zones, it sends all the wrong messages to the learned driving style module in the Engine Management Unit, I’m either going to have to learn to clear out all the error messages and stored data myself (object to paying garage rates to get it done), or get an electric car.

[PilotMan]

My ICE car definitely does not like living and being driven in 20mph zones, it sends all the wrong messages to the learned driving style module in the Engine Management Unit, I’m either going to have to learn to clear out all the error messages and stored data myself (object to paying garage rates to get it done), or get an electric car.

Just get an OBD tool like OBDeleven

[Jonestown]

Just get an OBD tool like OBDeleven

Thanks, I’ll look into that.

[Stevelondon]

It’s an oft used phrase in the motoring world.

“I know I have the power to get me out of trouble”

I’ve never understood it myself.

My previous motor was over 600 BHP. Compared to my now lethargic 500BHP shopping trolley.
It’s usually the bloody power that gets you into trouble in the first place. 😂

As Tesla are being talked about. I really should be looking at them as my next motor will almost certainly be an EV.
Therein lies the problem. I don’t like looking at them. Maybe cos there are too many of the things floating about. 🤷🏼

[Blackpool Rock]

It’s an oft used phrase in the motoring world.

“I know I have the power to get me out of trouble”

I’ve never understood it myself.

My previous motor was over 600 BHP. Compared to my now lethargic 500BHP shopping trolley.
It’s usually the bloody power that gets you into trouble in the first place. 😂

As Tesla are being talked about. I really should be looking at them as my next motor will almost certainly be an EV.
Therein lies the problem. I don’t like looking at them. Maybe cos there are too many of the things floating about. 🤷🏼

Tesla's looked slightly futuristic when they 1st came out but that was perhaps as there was so much talk / buzz about them but now they look a bit old hat

I know someone who has had a few Tesla's and loves them but he's a Musk fan boy, I also know someone whose had a couple of Kia EV's and loves those too

Apparently when they've had courtesy cars they have had Audi EV's and other "legacy" brands which they say are shit to drive by comparison, in conversation with the garage people they tend to agree that the legacy brands are still playing catch up however they are popular due to the legacy brand name and badge snobbery

The Kia EV6GT has about 650 BHP

[PepeMAGA]

Tesla's looked slightly futuristic when they 1st came out but that was perhaps as there was so much talk / buzz about them but now they look a bit old hat

I know someone who has had a few Tesla's and loves them but he's a Musk fan boy, I also know someone whose had a couple of Kia EV's and loves those too

Apparently when they've had courtesy cars they have had Audi EV's and other "legacy" brands which they say are shit to drive by comparison, in conversation with the garage people they tend to agree that the legacy brands are still playing catch up however they are popular due to the legacy brand name and badge snobbery

The Kia EV6GT has about 650 BHP

I've never driven a Tesla, but I'm happy with my non Tesla EV. 380 mile range and about 400 horsepower equivalent I think.
The only negative I would say is the brakes are pretty crap. Hopefully they're better on sportier models

[Jonestown]

I've never driven a Tesla, but I'm happy with my non Tesla EV. 380 mile range and about 400 horsepower equivalent I think.
The only negative I would say is the brakes are pretty crap. Hopefully they're better on sportier models

400 hp and it doesn’t even class as sporty ?

[Punting2022]

I wont be buying a EV. Will get a new petrol in 2029 and run it for ages. Decat too ti please the green agenda

[Stevelondon]

I do like the look of the Kia…. The GT one as my son’s neighbour has one and I could live with it.

But I really should be sensible especially at my age now. I’m really not doing any mileage (Fucking good thing as I get crap mpg as it stands)

Motorbike ……… with sidecar for the grandkids. 

[Blackpool Rock]

I do like the look of the Kia…. The GT one as my son’s neighbour has one and I could live with it.

But I really should be sensible especially at my age now. I’m really not doing any mileage (Fucking good thing as I get crap mpg as it stands)

Motorbike ……… with sidecar for the grandkids. 

The way to go with EV's is to charge at home but to have solar panels with battery storage, the guy I know with an EV6 calculates he only pays about 2p a mile to drive the thing

[Xtro]

My ICE car definitely does not like living and being driven in 20mph zones, it sends all the wrong messages to the learned driving style module in the Engine Management Unit, I’m either going to have to learn to clear out all the error messages and stored data myself (object to paying garage rates to get it done), or get an electric car.

You shouldn't be getting error messages for driving within the speed limit. I suspect other problems.
If it's a diesel and only doing short, local journeys then you may eventually get some DPF related issues.

[m4rmite]

The way to go with EV's is to charge at home but to have solar panels with battery storage, the guy I know with an EV6 calculates he only pays about 2p a mile to drive the thing

I only have an ev tariff and get 1.5p per mile.
The good thing with solar and batterys is that you can reduce your house running costs,.

[Jomoore]

The way to go with EV's is to charge at home but to have solar panels with battery storage, the guy I know with an EV6 calculates he only pays about 2p a mile to drive the thing

I've thought that, but do his 2ppm calculations include writing down the capital cost of the panels/batteries/installation costs?

[Xtro]

I've thought that, but do his 2ppm calculations include writing down the capital cost of the panels/batteries/installation costs?

You'd have to cover about 5 million miles to break even.

[cunningman]

You'd have to cover about 5 million miles to break even.

Is that somehow strangely inn jest?

I don't buy into the 6 year paybacks some people try to quote for the full solar, but even if its 12 years there are precious few investments that pay 8% after tax (given that self consumption savings are not taxed) especially low risk ones.

Surely the cost per kWHr is effectively lost export rate?

[maxQ]

You'd have to cover about 5 million miles to break even.

No, I'd say it will take him less than 9 years, he's running the house on PV too

We don't know the details of his system and the problem is, not everyone can install a large system, you need a large roof or plenty of space

Surely the cost per kWHr is effectively lost export rate?

This is why some like to charge their EV over exporting

[maxQ]

I wont be buying a EV. Will get a new petrol in 2029 and run it for ages. Decat too ti please the green agenda

This thread was stared in 2020, so if you can wait until 2030, by then you could buy an excellent fuel cell car, and there will be an extensive network of Hydrogen stations selling you cheap fuel

[PilotMan]

I'm having second thoughts about installing solar panels, I'm leaning towards batteries only on a cheap overnight rate. Fill up at night at less than 10p, and use during the day.

[JimmySW]

There isn't (at least as far as I'm aware) a meter for exporting electricity back into the grid so you get paid on a percentage of power generated which means charging your car or whatever doesn't have any effect on payback.

[Jonestown]

I bet SMEG could make an interesting electric car, most of the current ones look so dull.

[Xtro]

Honestly, can the infrastructure handle it if we all went over to electric everything by the end of the year?

[Blackpool Rock]

Honestly, can the infrastructure handle it if we all went over to electric everything by the end of the year?

No and that's part of the problem the infrastructure isn't in place, There are numerous examples of schemes wanting to build wind / solar farms but they can't as the infrastructure isn't in place to actually deliver the electric around the grid, it's still largely set up catering for the days when we had coal fired power stations but that's not where the electric is necessarily being generated now.

But you have this thing where if every house or certainly new house had solar panels and ground source energy then you're basically generating a lot of the demand locally (very locally on your own roof) therefore you don't need to spend mega bucks in all the "BIG" infrastructure programs or certainly not as much and not as quickly

[Xtro]

No and that's part of the problem the infrastructure isn't in place, There are numerous examples of schemes wanting to build wind / solar farms but they can't as the infrastructure isn't in place to actually deliver the electric around the grid, it's still largely set up catering for the days when we had coal fired power stations but that's not where the electric is necessarily being generated now.

But you have this thing where if every house or certainly new house had solar panels and ground source energy then you're basically generating a lot of the demand locally (very locally on your own roof) therefore you don't need to spend mega bucks in all the "BIG" infrastructure programs or certainly not as much and not as quickly

Makes sense. I think it's still totally unaffordable for most people, especially if you may not break even on buying 'the kit' before you need to invest in a new 'kit'. I'm thinking the kit as solar panels, (any additional roof work), batteries, heat pump, insulation, ventilation upgrades.

[webpunter]

There are numerous new build estates individual properties & small developments where solar isn't included
The reason me thinks is that developers want to maximise the profit
On the basis that whichever property it is will sell for a max finite amount this means that the solar installation cost wont be covered
Make it a requirement for planning permission & things change instantly
The developers much as they dont like it will deal with it one way or another
The same for people flattening properties for rebuilds its solar or no planning
& not some piddly amount of solar paying lip service
The effect will be dramatic in terms of solar take up   
For blocks of apartments there should be a requirement for solar on the roof
This can power common areas reception stairwells & corridors etc
The only exception being where there are penthouse properties hence there isn't the space

There will be growing lekky supply requirements as more & more properties have AC installed
In the build phase or retrospectively
AC burns lekky & in some countries exacerbates supply issues / power outages
Solar especially with battery storage will help minimise the problems not a wholesale solution however a step in the right direction
As an aside i've never understood on developments of apartment blocks why not many seems to have penthouses
A premium can be charged & not an excessive extra build cost 

& for people with drives & car charging solar can be used to charge the vehicles a win win

[PilotMan]

There isn't (at least as far as I'm aware) a meter for exporting electricity back into the grid so you get paid on a percentage of power generated which means charging your car or whatever doesn't have any effect on payback.

I'm not sure if I understand that?

Are there not tariffs that allow you to export back to the grid, and do they not measure how much you send back?