Electric Cars

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Once everybody has electric cars and home batterys like the tesla home battery setup, the electric companies can charge your batteries for you when energy is abundent then suck some back when demand is high.  By doing that the electricity providers can play both sides of the supply demand cost curve, thereby taking electricity off of the grid when it is very cheap or even negative, and then supplying the grid when prices are high.

Tesla will be offering a special tarriff to owners of electric cars and home storage batteries, not sure how much of a £/unit saving you will get, but your batteries will be getting cycled a bit more than from just your own usage

Thats "if" they have a surplus! There was around a week or so a month ago, whole week of sod all wind just as well that the demand was low as it wasnt that cold but it was nowhere near the usual winter demands.

We haven't had a cold winter for quite some time now, just as well realy. But keep building those old Windymills and ever more of them. Shit street is thjat way >>>> and we're well on the way there!"

Those reliable old nukes will be life expired a in a few years, what is going to replace them???..
   

[Watts.E.Dunn]

I got mine earlier this year. Always had big engine V6s before and I have never looked back

It's awesome.
Sure you need to plan your range and sure...the actual real world range is nothing Vs stated figures but.....

It's saving me £400 plus per month in fuel alone

It's instant quick and charging isn't that bad

I would never go back to conventional combustion engines or useless hybrids

And yes I do a LOT of mileage

Yes electrical transmission is exccllent, diesel locomotives have been using it for a very long time now, very simple no clutch no muliway gearbox  no diff etc just a BIG battery..

Enjoy your cheap power while it lasts, once petrol and diesel tax takes dwindle they'll be after you!...

[Gordon Bennett]

I got mine earlier this year. Always had big engine V6s before and I have never looked back

It's awesome.
Sure you need to plan your range and sure...the actual real world range is nothing Vs stated figures but.....

It's saving me £400 plus per month in fuel alone

It's instant quick and charging isn't that bad

I would never go back to conventional combustion engines or useless hybrids

And yes I do a LOT of mileage

That's interesting. The LOT of mileage puzzles me..... how do you manage a few high-mileage days in terms of your charging routine? Also, I accept you're not spending £400 on fuel but what are you spending on electricity?
I've tried to work out costs of charging an EV but it's a bit sketchy to pin down..... My frugal petrol car gets me 225 motorway miles on £17.50 of petrol (that's real actual results from a monthly trip I make, not notional figures). I think to charge an EV for 225 miles costs between £7.50 and £10.00 in electricity. So, if I swapped to an EV my saving wouldn't be £17.50, it would be more like £8. Obviously it's still a saving but it's not as eye-catching I feel.

[Xtro]

That's interesting. The LOT of mileage puzzles me..... how do you manage a few high-mileage days in terms of your charging routine? Also, I accept you're not spending £400 on fuel but what are you spending on electricity?
I've tried to work out costs of charging an EV but it's a bit sketchy to pin down..... My frugal petrol car gets me 225 motorway miles on £17.50 of petrol (that's real actual results from a monthly trip I make, not notional figures). I think to charge an EV for 225 miles costs between £7.50 and £10.00 in electricity. So, if I swapped to an EV my saving wouldn't be £17.50, it would be more like £8. Obviously it's still a saving but it's not as eye-catching I feel.

Without reading through the whole thread....
Can you/we still purchase cheap electricity, like what used to called economy 7 IIRC?
I'm sure this kicks in late night until early morning so the ideal time to charge a car for most users.

[Blackpool Rock]

Without reading through the whole thread....
Can you/we still purchase cheap electricity, like what used to called economy 7 IIRC?
I'm sure this kicks in late night until early morning so the ideal time to charge a car for most users.

I've just renewed my energy deal and there was one specifically geared towards electric car drivers, I had a quick look as it was cheapest for me despite not having an electric car (so I wasn't eligible but guess could have lied), from what I read you had to have a smart meter and charge the car between certain times overnight when demand was lower, presumably the smart meter can change the rate/unit at different times of the day

[Blackpool Rock]

Thats "if" they have a surplus! There was around a week or so a month ago, whole week of sod all wind just as well that the demand was low as it wasnt that cold but it was nowhere near the usual winter demands.

We haven't had a cold winter for quite some time now, just as well realy. But keep building those old Windymills and ever more of them. Shit street is thjat way >>>> and we're well on the way there!"

Those reliable old nukes will be life expired a in a few years, what is going to replace them???..
 

Nuclear waste and a huge decommissioning cost that hasn't been allowed for 

Wind used to be derided as being way too expensive however I believe it's actually the cheapest source now since it's been scaled up and turbines improved for efficiency
Reliability of wind is it's downfall and solar too however we still need to increase both in the future, where we do need to start looking at seriously is wave / tidal power as it's a known quantity and reliable
I wouldn't be building any more nuclear as it's way too expensive and then you have all the decommissioning problems in the future 
Every new house should have to have solar panels on the roof and a small wind turbine on the roof, Millions of houses all putting a small amount into the system is better than a few Mega projects trying to supply the entire nation

[lostandfound]

Plunge Pricing pays you to take excess energy off the grid
Across the UK, whenever more electricity is generated than consumed, energy prices fall – sometimes to the point where prices drop below zero, and suppliers are paid to take energy off the grid.

Agile Octopus introduces Plunge Pricing – a world first that lets you take advantage of these negative price events, and get paid for the electricity you use. Receive alerts whenever prices drop below zero, or use our API to program your smart devices.

Over the last 12 months, unit prices dropped below 2p / kWh 31 time

External Link/Members Only

[standardpostage]

I'm on the first rung of an electric car,

dipping my toe in the water, so to speak,

I have an electric mountain bike, cost £3500,

not cheap, but fly's up hills 

PS I live in a very hilly area.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Nuclear waste and a huge decommissioning cost that hasn't been allowed for 

Wind used to be derided as being way too expensive however I believe it's actually the cheapest source now since it's been scaled up and turbines improved for efficiency
Reliability of wind is it's downfall and solar too however we still need to increase both in the future, where we do need to start looking at seriously is wave / tidal power as it's a known quantity and reliable
I wouldn't be building any more nuclear as it's way too expensive and then you have all the decommissioning problems in the future 
Every new house should have to have solar panels on the roof and a small wind turbine on the roof, Millions of houses all putting a small amount into the system is better than a few Mega projects trying to supply the entire nation

Millions of houses is no better then lots of big windfarms if the wind isnt there. High pressure systems at night no solar who ya gonna call?

Yep Nuclear isnt cheap but there are some intresting devlopments on the go like SMR..

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[Blackpool Rock]

Millions of houses is no better then lots of big windfarms if the wind isnt there. High pressure systems at night no solar who ya gonna call?

Yep Nuclear isnt cheap but there are some intresting devlopments on the go like SMR..

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Perhaps you missed the bit where I said -
Reliability of wind is it's downfall and solar too however we still need to increase both in the future, where we do need to start looking at seriously is wave / tidal power as it's a known quantity and reliable

You quite often see wind farms and many of the turbines aren't turning even when it's windy, i've always thought it was crazy why they weren't operating however it's apparently down to too much energy being generated for the requirement at that moment in time.

What we do also need to look at is hydro electric solutions where you use excess wind / solar to pump water up hill which can then be used at peak times or when there isn't much wind / solar to produce hydro electric thereby storing the energy.

I was always in favour of nuclear but not anymore, times and technology have moved on

[dubs]

Thats "if" they have a surplus! There was around a week or so a month ago, whole week of sod all wind just as well that the demand was low as it wasnt that cold but it was nowhere near the usual winter demands.

We haven't had a cold winter for quite some time now, just as well realy. But keep building those old Windymills and ever more of them. Shit street is thjat way >>>> and we're well on the way there!"

Those reliable old nukes will be life expired a in a few years, what is going to replace them???..
 

Windmills?

They are not milling flour, they are wind turbines and they do not cause cancer before you start quoting trump

[lostandfound]

Millions of houses is no better then lots of big windfarms if the wind isnt there. High pressure systems at night no solar who ya gonna call?

Yep Nuclear isnt cheap but there are some intresting devlopments on the go like SMR..

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There's no appetite for nuclear. Hitachi buggered off from Wales just the other month because of this.

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So wind and solar + other renewables it is. 40% of the wind in Europe blows on UK territory.

Storage is needed and there are countless projects underway, such as -

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[WASA38]

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New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light

[Blackpool Rock]

There's no appetite for nuclear. Hitachi buggered off from Wales just the other month because of this.

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So wind and solar + other renewables it is. 40% of the wind in Europe blows on UK territory.

Storage is needed and there are countless projects underway, such as -

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Interesting article about liquid air, I wasn't aware of that opportunity but it just shows how technology moves on and how the UK needs to adopt such cutting edge ideas to maintain our position in the world etc
It's a similar principle to the one that I was pushing where you use the excess wind / solar when it's available to convert and store thereby tiding you over the lean times

I see no reason that in time this country can't just be energy self sufficient but a wholesale exporter and all based on cheap renewables 

[cunningman]

I see no reason that in time this country can't just be energy self sufficient but a wholesale exporter and all based on cheap renewables 

I suspect that we'd have to get a grip on tidal for that, plus the grid-scale organic flow batteries.

[Blackpool Rock]

I suspect that we'd have to get a grip on tidal for that, plus the grid-scale organic flow batteries.

Yeah I previously posted that we need to look more at tidal as it is a known quantity in terms of all the green options.
I believe some developments are being seriously looked at around Cardiff in Wales, basically not far from or effectively part of the Bristol channel which has the worlds 2nd largest tidal range so it's unforgivable not to harvest that resource

Tidal or rather wave was looked at back in the 60's / 70's and trials deemed to be a failure however i've since heard that major oil companies had a hand in scuppering the trials.
Whether or not that happened or it's just another conspiracy theory I don't know but we do now have access to all sorts of new materials and technology which i'm sure could make it successful
What we need to do is invest in these things which is where the UK has historically fallen down certainly since the Industrial revolution and Victorian times anyway

[lostandfound]

Interesting article about liquid air, I wasn't aware of that opportunity but it just shows how technology moves on and how the UK needs to adopt such cutting edge ideas to maintain our position in the world etc
It's a similar principle to the one that I was pushing where you use the excess wind / solar when it's available to convert and store thereby tiding you over the lean times

I see no reason that in time this country can't just be energy self sufficient but a wholesale exporter and all based on cheap renewables 

Yes - it would be great to be selling power from UK renewables to the rest of Europe instead of them buying fossil fuels from the likes of Russia. 

[lostandfound]

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New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light

What I find interesting in that article is that the contractors building the plant at Hinkley were made responsible for project overruns, and then, whereas similar plant builds elsewhere have struggled, building Hinkley has gone 30% than expected! 

And that has resulted in Sizewell being a lot cheaper. I believe the Chinese were heavily involved in Hinkley and I expect they have lobbied / pressurised for Sizewell.

[lostandfound]

Yeah I previously posted that we need to look more at tidal as it is a known quantity in terms of all the green options.
I believe some developments are being seriously looked at around Cardiff in Wales, basically not far from or effectively part of the Bristol channel which has the worlds 2nd largest tidal range so it's unforgivable not to harvest that resource

Tidal or rather wave was looked at back in the 60's / 70's and trials deemed to be a failure however i've since heard that major oil companies had a hand in scuppering the trials.
Whether or not that happened or it's just another conspiracy theory I don't know but we do now have access to all sorts of new materials and technology which i'm sure could make it successful
What we need to do is invest in these things which is where the UK has historically fallen down certainly since the Industrial revolution and Victorian times anyway

Scotland seems to lead the UK on tidal. IIRC there are lots of interesting vids on Youtube about the Scottish isles and renewables.

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The scale of tidal seems risky to me - they seem to be huge projects - as it is as yet an underdeveloped technology. But I agree that given our long coastline and the waters around them, and the consistency of tidal power it is something that should be invested in. And I expect the investment would be a lot less than the hundreds of billions currently being spent as a result of Covid, which I think puts it into perspective.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Perhaps you missed the bit where I said -
Reliability of wind is it's downfall and solar too however we still need to increase both in the future, where we do need to start looking at seriously is wave / tidal power as it's a known quantity and reliable

You quite often see wind farms and many of the turbines aren't turning even when it's windy, i've always thought it was crazy why they weren't operating however it's apparently down to too much energy being generated for the requirement at that moment in time.

What we do also need to look at is hydro electric solutions where you use excess wind / solar to pump water up hill which can then be used at peak times or when there isn't much wind / solar to produce hydro electric thereby storing the energy.

Mate, we havent got the room or space for Hydro, more that the hydro we have, we might, just might, be able to accomadate a second dinorwig the pumped storage place but thats the closest thing that the grid has to storage. And it IIRC isnt that much very usefull for when all those kettles go on after Corrie on 't telly  but it isnt that long before the water runs out.

I was always in favour of nuclear but not anymore, times and technology have moved on

Yes they have thats why the resurgence in Nuclear, the idea now is to make Small local nuke plants make them in a factory like what Rolls Royce and others are proposing. Needs regulatroy change. Its also certain it won't happen here, the Yanks, Indians, chinese will make them then flog them to us:(

We simply cannot rely or depend on Wind look at today, right now, not that cold the demand is 35 GW the wind is 2.4 GW of that even if you were to up the wind genertion by what 2 or 3 times it still will not be enough without Fossil Gas to back it up yes course there are a few others like Nuke at present 6.6 GW and interconnects but the main source is Gas at 15.5 Gw.

Now load on all those electric cars, even if you do charge them overnight if its in one of those blocking high pressure systems we still depend of Fossil too much.   

[lostandfound]

Yes they have thats why the resurgence in Nuclear, the idea now is to make Small local nuke plants make them in a factory like what Rolls Royce and others are proposing. Needs regulatroy change. Its also certain it won't happen here, the Yanks, Indians, chinese will make them then flog them to us:(

We simply cannot rely or depend on Wind look at today, right now, not that cold the demand is 35 GW the wind is 2.4 GW of that even if you were to up the wind genertion by what 2 or 3 times it still will not be enough without Fossil Gas to back it up yes course there are a few others like Nuke at present 6.6 GW and interconnects but the main source is Gas at 15.5 Gw.

Now load on all those electric cars, even if you do charge them overnight if its in one of those blocking high pressure systems we still depend of Fossil too much.

Average demand over the last year was 30GW

By BPs' link wind is currently supplying 3.5GW - installed wind capacity in the UK is > 24 GW

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New Hinkley will add 3.2 GW nuclear, if Sizewell (3.2 GW) and Bradwell (2.2 GW) approved they will add up to 8.6GW new nuclear.

We may rely on wind because most of the time it is very windy in and around the UK, and we will increase storage and develop and install new storage tech.

[DrGFreeman]

there is gossip that the govt will continue to support civilian nuclear power generation to subsidise the military nuclear programme
I makes sense to me that an active UK civilian nuclear industry creates UK nuclear expertise and a UK supply chain which the military benefit from
I dont think its a coincidence nuclear submarines are built in barrow-in-furness virtually next door to sellafield

my point in relation to electric cars and power generation, is that I think nuclear power is with us while we have nuclear weapons

edit : ops, forgot link : External Link/Members Only

[lostandfound]

there is gossip that the govt will continue to support civilian nuclear power generation to subsidise the military nuclear programme
I makes sense to me that an active UK civilian nuclear industry creates UK nuclear expertise and a UK supply chain which the military benefit from
I dont think its a coincidence nuclear submarines are built in barrow-in-furness virtually next door to sellafield

my point in relation to electric cars and power generation, is that I think nuclear power is with us while we have nuclear weapons

edit : ops, forgot link : External Link/Members Only

Interesting - although is the argument rather that we will have nuclear power while we have submarines propelled by nuclear power rather than weapons?

Is it not the case that the UK's nuclear arsenal is comprised of American ICBMS?

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[DrGFreeman]

Interesting - although is the argument rather that we will have nuclear power while we have submarines propelled by nuclear power rather than weapons?
Is it not the case that the UK's nuclear arsenal is comprised of American ICBMS?
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our 'independent nuclear deterrent' is supposed to be independent so operated by the UK, requiring the UK to have the expertise
and I thought the warheads were made in the UK ?

I do take your point though. maybe my post above should have said :
my point in relation to electric cars and power generation, is that I think nuclear power is with us while we have nuclear weapons and nuclear powered warships

[lostandfound]

our 'independent nuclear deterrent' is supposed to be independent so operated by the UK, requiring the UK to have the expertise
and I thought the warheads were made in the UK ?

Some claim it's controlled by the US rather than independent -

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It seems you are correct that the warheads are made in the UK - to the American designs. (Though in Berkshire rather than Cumbria).

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[sub_marine]

The Submarine reactors research is all done at Douneray on the Northern coast of Scotland, so Barrow and Sellafield is just a coincidence.

The Navy subs visit US&A on a regular basis, for swapping out the ICBMs.  So even if they do build them in UK, there must be a reason for this, maybe they need serviced or the warhead is american.

Hydropower is very flexible, some of the dams have the capability to pump the water back uphill when electricity prices are very cheap or negative, dam operators have been doing this for decades to maximise profits.  Also hydro dams can go from 0% to 100% in about 60 seconds.  The nuclear power stations all have a secure power link to a hydro dam so that if all else fails they always have a reliable independant power source.

The reason UK is uniquely placed in europe for the biggest potential renewable power generation is the gulf stream, this current flows towards the west coast and especially through the Pentland Firth.  West of Shetland it flows between 1-4 knots, at the Pentland firth when its has to fit through the gap of John O Groats and Orkney, it can be 7 knots.  I was involved with a firm in 2000 that was renting gear to research teams that were trying to build scaled prototypes for generating power, but everything alway broke, the power of water was always too strong.  As far as I know the research stopped and the next biggest team was bought out by the Portugese government.  The energy density of water is way more than wind, and the gulf stream is constant, 24/7.  If this country was serious about being green they would pump some cash into that and would be a net exporter of power in no time.

[Gordon Bennett]

Saw an article today that quoted some costs for charging.....

According to the Energy Saving Trust, a full charge in a pure electric vehicle will give a typical range of100 miles and will cost £4-£6 if charging at home, and £8-£10 if using public charging points. In comparison driving 100 miles in a petrol or diesel car will cost around £13-£16 in fuel.

I think the petrol costs are a bit dubious. Petrol is about £4.30 a gallon so they're saying the combustion engine vehicle is using 3.37 gallons ie getting 30mpg. My feeling is that vast majority of modern normal cars do far better than 30mpg. My little runaround would easily do 100 urban miles for well under a tenner.

The electric car is gonna cost a minimum of £500 to do 10000 miles - that's not insignificant in my view. Yes, it is a good saving on cost of petrol but paying an extra £15K-£20K+ for the EV vehicle means it will take donkey's years before you're "winning" overall.

[lostandfound]

Energy Saving Trust most probably talk bollocks. If you look at either side of "the argument" - "petrol heads" being the other - both sides talk nonsense IMO.

Autocar's experience a year ago, group testing 4 EVs is more representative.

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At the mo EVs are still mostly bought by eco warriros and tech-propeller-heads / rich people wanting the latest cool thing, though the 0% BIK rating has added another angle.

Hopefully things will improve, though BMW's latest is ugly as sin (and still v expensive). I can't decide which looks worse - inside or outside? 

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[sub_marine]

Saw an article today that quoted some costs for charging.....

According to the Energy Saving Trust, a full charge in a pure electric vehicle will give a typical range of100 miles and will cost £4-£6 if charging at home, and £8-£10 if using public charging points. In comparison driving 100 miles in a petrol or diesel car will cost around £13-£16 in fuel.

I think the petrol costs are a bit dubious. Petrol is about £4.30 a gallon so they're saying the combustion engine vehicle is using 3.37 gallons ie getting 30mpg. My feeling is that vast majority of modern normal cars do far better than 30mpg. My little runaround would easily do 100 urban miles for well under a tenner.

The electric car is gonna cost a minimum of £500 to do 10000 miles - that's not insignificant in my view. Yes, it is a good saving on cost of petrol but paying an extra £15K-£20K+ for the EV vehicle means it will take donkey's years before you're "winning" overall.

Remember the government has put VED back up for almost all vehicles now except for very eco cars, so your EV car will be at zero rate, so thats some savings beyond ICE car. 

I'd be interested to see the servicing costs of EVs Vs ICE cars over say 100k miles.  Obviously EVs dont have engine oil or spark plugs, but they still have plenty of other consumables like tyres, brakes, wheel bearings etc.  EVs have some issues that normal ICE cars dont, such as battery cooling systems, electric motors which will need shaft bearings replaced eventually, plus if they are anything like industrial motors then they will also need rewound after enough hours.  Tesla is does all servicing in house and has been replacing loads of motors on warrenty for free, but this good will is not going to last forever.

[timsussex]

when i were a lad
 
Britain led the world in nuclear power stations
the first commercial plant
the AGR
the fast breeders etc etc

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now we are buying Chinese - nuff said 

[timsussex]

back to topic

guy down the road has just bought a Polestar -impressive bit of kit   

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[king tarzan]

Next best thing for future in USA saw on news.

[Marmalade]

I got mine earlier this year. Always had big engine V6s before and I have never looked back

It's awesome.
Sure you need to plan your range and sure...the actual real world range is nothing Vs stated figures but.....

It's saving me £400 plus per month in fuel alone

It's instant quick and charging isn't that bad

I would never go back to conventional combustion engines or useless hybrids

And yes I do a LOT of mileage

What’s it sound like??

[Gordon Bennett]

Remember the government has put VED back up for almost all vehicles now except for very eco cars, so your EV car will be at zero rate, so thats some savings beyond ICE car. 

I'd be interested to see the servicing costs of EVs Vs ICE cars over say 100k miles.  Obviously EVs dont have engine oil or spark plugs, but they still have plenty of other consumables like tyres, brakes, wheel bearings etc.  EVs have some issues that normal ICE cars dont, such as battery cooling systems, electric motors which will need shaft bearings replaced eventually, plus if they are anything like industrial motors then they will also need rewound after enough hours.  Tesla is does all servicing in house and has been replacing loads of motors on warrenty for free, but this good will is not going to last forever.

Servicing will be interesting. I presume there will be a lot of pressure/expectation to visit your main dealer - I expect that the under-the-arches grease monkey won't have the knowledge, diagnostics and access to non-OEM parts to offer cut-price servicing on these new/rare EVs.

[lostandfound]

Servicing will be interesting. I presume there will be a lot of pressure/expectation to visit your main dealer - I expect that the under-the-arches grease monkey won't have the knowledge, diagnostics and access to non-OEM parts to offer cut-price servicing on these new/rare EVs.

Ha - good luck getting even Tesla to repair a Tesla. Interwebs rife with stories of waiting months for simple repairs. As for the out-of-warranty costs ... 1K to replace a door handle (they break), 6K for a bit of broken suspension ... (Model S has air suspension - air suspension wears out). Fine so long as they don't break, and you don't mind the reportedly approximate build quality and poor refinement compared to other cars in the same price bracket.

Still, EVs are the future, and if you buy one now the neighbours may well be jealous. And then there's the home charging and 0% BIK.

[lostandfound]

Do you want a £5K, electric quadricycle (closed cabin and heated), designed for urban use? Also could be available for rental per diem, or per mile (how does 22p a mile sound).

Citroen would like to know if you do!

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With a top speed of 26 mph these would be an effective traffic calming measure, especially as you just need to be 16 to drive one - no need for a driving licence.

Can you imagine tourists trundling around Central London in these?  Maybe a new kind of Boris bike!

[sub_marine]

With a top speed of 26 mph these would be an effective traffic calming measure, especially as you just need to be 16 to drive one - no need for a driving licence.

So if its under 350kg then it can be counted as a quadricycle and driven/ridden with a car or motorbike license, if going by the motorcycle route, you'd still need a CBT then a basic AM test.  Any heavier than 350kg or if it has more than 11kw of power then you'd have to be at least 17 and on an A1 motorcycle license. 

Problem with a little car like that in a city is that your still going to be causing traffic jams just like every other 4 wheeled vehicle.  The whole point of geting a motorcycle license at 16 is to get a cheap bike/moped and filter through traffic and not spend you life stuck in queues

[MrMatrix]

I know my last punt in Canary Wharf I was crossing a road and never heard the electric car that nearly ran me over. OK its 4 years ago but surely they should be making some noise to warn the public of their approach.

[Gordon Bennett]

Do you want a £5K, electric quadricycle (closed cabin and heated), designed for urban use? Also could be available for rental per diem, or per mile (how does 22p a mile sound).

Citroen would like to know if you do!

External Link/Members Only

With a top speed of 26 mph these would be an effective traffic calming measure, especially as you just need to be 16 to drive one - no need for a driving licence.

Can you imagine tourists trundling around Central London in these?  Maybe a new kind of Boris bike!

They look like a more sensible version of that daft Twizzy thing Renault released. They could cut holes in the floor so if you can out of electric you could poke your feet through and run along like Fred Flintstone to get home😉

[sub_marine]

I know my last punt in Canary Wharf I was crossing a road and never heard the electric car that nearly ran me over. OK its 4 years ago but surely they should be making some noise to warn the public of their approach.

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As of last summer all EVs do make a noise under 12mph, for exactly the reason you pointed out

[GingerNuts]

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As of last summer all EVs do make a noise under 12mph, for exactly the reason you pointed out

That's not correct.

From July 2019 all newly approved models of electric and hybrid vehicles in the European Union (EU) must be equipped with an Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System (AVAS). All new quiet electric and hybrid vehicles registered from July 2021 must also be so equipped.

[advent2016]

we have quite a few in our company fleet some pure electric, some plug-in and some pure hybrid. I've had the opportunity to drive Tesla and was impressed by their super fast chargers.

The pure electric I've driven include the Nissan leaf both saloon and van variant and the dedicated NV200 that are fine for towns but push them hard and the predicted runtime decreases rapidly.

Kangoo ZE very similar Nissan gave a fairly reliable city 120 miles and country 100 miles. They claim 200 miles range.

Personally I'd still get something with a petrol range extender as much or Wales there aren't many charging points.

[lostandfound]

So if its under 350kg then it can be counted as a quadricycle and driven/ridden with a car or motorbike license, if going by the motorcycle route, you'd still need a CBT then a basic AM test.  Any heavier than 350kg or if it has more than 11kw of power then you'd have to be at least 17 and on an A1 motorcycle license. 

Problem with a little car like that in a city is that your still going to be causing traffic jams just like every other 4 wheeled vehicle.  The whole point of geting a motorcycle license at 16 is to get a cheap bike/moped and filter through traffic and not spend you life stuck in queues

That's one POV - and is no doubt true for some, but IMO this would have a much broader appeal. If they were widely available in cities for short term hire - eg like the cycle / e-scooter schemes - I think they would be very popular - and less anti social - I've seen kids razzing mopeds as fast as they can making a racket which can be heard streets away.

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In France these can be driven by 14 year olds up, but yes, the rules are a bit stricter here.

[MrMatrix]

That's not correct.

From July 2019 all newly approved models of electric and hybrid vehicles in the European Union (EU) must be equipped with an Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System (AVAS). All new quiet electric and hybrid vehicles registered from July 2021 must also be so equipped.

I think having a kick in limit of 12mph is clouding the issue. What happens to a cyclist on the road. 12mph is too low. It should always have an acoustic alert system when its switched on. I think thats what you are saying GN.

[Gordon Bennett]

FFS! Stuff emerging in the news today saying Chancellor is actively looking at making ALL motorways into toll routes in order to claw back the huge drop in tax revenue from sales of fuel and VED duties as the take up of EVs kicks in.
So even if you end up saving on one hand you'll end up losing on the other one.

[Blackpool Rock]

FFS! Stuff emerging in the news today saying Chancellor is actively looking at making ALL motorways into toll routes in order to claw back the huge drop in tax revenue from sales of fuel and VED duties as the take up of EVs kicks in.
So even if you end up saving on one hand you'll end up losing on the other one.

Sorry but surely this isn't new news   

[MrMatrix]

FFS! Stuff emerging in the news today saying Chancellor is actively looking at making ALL motorways into toll routes in order to claw back the huge drop in tax revenue from sales of fuel and VED duties as the take up of EVs kicks in.
So even if you end up saving on one hand you'll end up losing on the other one.

Well I was unaware of the motorways possibly becoming an all TOLLs system. 

[notcalledchris]

I think having a kick in limit of 12mph is clouding the issue. What happens to a cyclist on the road. 12mph is too low. It should always have an acoustic alert system when its switched on. I think thats what you are saying GN.

. At higher speeds there will be more noise from the tyres etc so maybe an additional warning noise becomes less needed??

[Blackpool Rock]

Mmmm so here's a scenario when everyone is electric -

You drive to visit family / friends and your car has a range of say 100 miles, you start out fully charged but by the time you reach them 70 miles away you don't have enough juice to get home without a recharge.

Do you ask your friends if you can "plug in" or do it on the way home 
I can see this getting under peoples skin

[lostandfound]

- I think a polite guest would charge on the way there.

- In 10 years time with 50 GW UK wind capacity + more solar energy costs may be much lower

- Hydrogen fuel cell EV cars with similar range and refuelling times to ICE vehicles may be widely available by then.

Bosch, a tier one component supplier to the automotive industry, recently announced the commercial launch of its off the shelf hydrogen fuel cell.

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