Electric Cars

[chrishornx]

- I think a polite guest would charge on the way there.

agree - in 10 years time when charging stations are prevalent and the mainstay for service stations it will be easy to charge up -- if you are short of petrol you don't ask your host for a tin of petrol

[Blackpool Rock]

Just announced the ban on "all petrol and diesel" new cars is to be brought forward to 2030 from 2035, hybrids can still be bought for a bit longer, 2035 I think.
Ambitious so they need to get their skates on putting in the necessary infrastructure.

It's a real headache for car drivers as most peoples objection to all electric is the lack of charging infrastructure and lack of range, chicken and egg situation as logically the infrastructure will expand to meet demand if people can make money from it but people are holding off until it's in place.

My opinion in our brave new world is that the Govt for once needs to get behind it with financial backing to make sure it happens rather than looking at foreign investors from China etc to stupm up the cash

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[Marmalade]

I have a slight bias: I like cars to sound like cars.

But it is getting like iPhones. A different kind of fuel comes out, becomes all the rage, and they discontinue support for the old model. i.e. force people to buy new cars the same as they force them to buy new phones. Being "green" provides the virtue-signaling cover for ripping you off.

Even that model is outdated.

Microsoft claims that it is no longer cost-efficient to develop new software if the old software works reasonably well and people don't need to pay for new stuff. Nor is there any incentive to get rid of bugs that endlessly appear. So they don't sell you the software, they just hire it to you with an annual license.

You think you own your car, the same as you think you own your phone. But not if it has built-in obsolescence. And if the built-in obsolescence is insufficient, then outlawing the old model with new legislation will achieve the same end ... 'stimulating industry' and forcing you to get a new one.

[smiths]

agree - in 10 years time when charging stations are prevalent and the mainstay for service stations it will be easy to charge up -- if you are short of petrol you don't ask your host for a tin of petrol

Yes I assume this is likely to be the case in 10 years time as by then and maybe a lot sooner it will certainly be in the petrol station owners interest to make it happen. But until I know I can charge up quickly and that's essential to me at a petrol station I wont be bothering with Electric Cars. Problem could be as this is the UK they ban petrol/diesel but don't have enough charging stations up and running to meet demand leading to queues. Wouldn't surprise me if this occurred.

Nowadays I see some people at charging points and they are sitting their for ages charging up, that slow process isn't any good to me. No idea if this is now the case but they must agree all Electric Cars can be charged quickly, in no more than 10 mins max and even that's too slow compared to me filling up with petrol. The problem has been some older Electric cars take longer to charge up and wont work at the quicker charging places. A universal standard moving forward is needed if its not already agreed in my view.

Another thing is I don't like some of the places charging points has been situated, in some dark streets in known dodgy areas, so any criminal with a brain cell would know 1 or more people will come to that point at some stage, all they have to do is wait and then rob/mug them. There is one in Tottenham on a road polluted at night by human scum, druggies and other low lifes, fuck charging their. Get them in petrol stations more and that's safer.

[anyfucker]

I suspect it will become mandatory for all work parking to provide charging points.

[george r]

if i am still here may get a hybrid in  2035 .

[lostandfound]

I haven't seen all the detail - not published yet I think, as the announcement will be today apparently - but what I've heard rows back on an outright ICE ban to allow "some hybrids" - though by that the could possible mean hydrogen fuel cells. We are already seeing some petrol hybrids with very useable leccy range, like the BMW X5 45E and the Merc S580E - enough for many commutes etc.

[Blackpool Rock]

OK so given that no new petrol / diesel cars in 10 years time and hybrids in 15 I wonder at what point it starts to become hard / impossible to fill up an old car with fuel 
I was planning on buying a performance car in the run up to retirement which would then also give me another hobby once retired doing a few track days etc but not so sure now if I can't get fuel or nobody else wants to buy it as it's effectively an obsolete museum piece.

However i'm still not looking to buy an EV as I just don't think they will necessarily be around long term or rather not be the No.1 option, I see the hydrogen fuel cell being the long term option and think there should be more focus on driving this forward.

Yet again it seems like we will have more than 1 option to choose between just like VHS Vs Betamax etc and why risk making a major purchase for something that falls by the wayside 

[Gordon Bennett]

OK so given that no new petrol / diesel cars in 10 years time and hybrids in 15 I wonder at what point it starts to become hard / impossible to fill up an old car with fuel 
I was planning on buying a performance car in the run up to retirement which would then also give me another hobby once retired doing a few track days etc but not so sure now if I can't get fuel or nobody else wants to buy it as it's effectively an obsolete museum piece.

However i'm still not looking to buy an EV as I just don't think they will necessarily be around long term or rather not be the No.1 option, I see the hydrogen fuel cell being the long term option and think there should be more focus on driving this forward.

Yet again it seems like we will have more than 1 option to choose between just like VHS Vs Betamax etc and why risk making a major purchase for something that falls by the wayside 

They'll have to come back with an outright ban on petrol cars too at some point. There would still be millions of petrol cars chugging about in 2050 otherwise - people will cling onto whatever they had in 2030 and keep it serviced/running for as long as they could get away with.

[lostandfound]

They'll have to come back with an outright ban on petrol cars too at some point. There would still be millions of petrol cars chugging about in 2050 otherwise - people will cling onto whatever they had in 2030 and keep it serviced/running for as long as they could get away with.

IMO a combination of taxes and the reducing availability of fuel will be used to eliminate the vast bulk of ICE vehicles - leaving just a "classic car" rump.

But even before then huge numbers will be exported as secondhands to countries that still allow them. Already a thriving trade in this apparently, driven by our "lease a new one every few years" habit in the UK.

[chrishornx]

They'll have to come back with an outright ban on petrol cars too at some point. There would still be millions of petrol cars chugging about in 2050 otherwise - people will cling onto whatever they had in 2030 and keep it serviced/running for as long as they could get away with.

I will be pushing up daisies in 2050 so no real worry but the value of a decent petrol car purchased in say 2028 will be a concern to many

[Jonestown]

They'll have to come back with an outright ban on petrol cars too at some point. There would still be millions of petrol cars chugging about in 2050 otherwise - people will cling onto whatever they had in 2030 and keep it serviced/running for as long as they could get away with.

Sounds a bit like Cuban motoring since the embargo was put in place, tourists will come to UK and marvel at all the old Golfs still in use.

[MrMatrix]

I will be pushing up daisies in 2050 so no real worry but the value of a decent petrol car purchased in say 2028 will be a concern to many

Agreed. I cant see people investing in such cars and the bottom of the car market will fall out at that point. However my pile of shit which is 20 years old will be celebrating its 30th birthday when all this happens. I wonder if it will be considered a classic by then

[sub_marine]

The biggest chain of EV charging stations in UK is owned by BP

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BP is also investing billions into offshore windfarms, which is currently upsetting share holders, as this is a very slow return for money compared to spudding an oil discovery.  So any thought that big oil will try and resist the EV revolution is wrong as they are betting big on it.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

50 GW of Wind power eh?. Well maybe. But when we have a good high pressure system over the old UK what are you going to use to make up that 50 GW gap?

Unless someone has a very wrong idea  on storage capacities?, the last high system around a month or so age went on for a week.

Anyway seems that the Rolls Royce consortium are to now get on with their small modular reactors:)

[lostandfound]

50 GW of Wind power eh?. Well maybe. But when we have a good high pressure system over the old UK what are you going to use to make up that 50 GW gap?

Unless someone has a very wrong idea  on storage capacities?, the last high system around a month or so age went on for a week.

Anyway seems that the Rolls Royce consortium are to now get on with their small modular reactors:)

You already said this, in this thread, and I replied in post #26 - with the following link as an example of the kind of new storage tech under development -

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As I said above 40% of the wind in Europe blows on UK territory, which is a lot of energy available to be captured using cheap, low tech, already developed, wind power and stored using Li or flow batteries, or pumped hydro, or new ideas such as this liquid air method. And also hydrogen of course - which seems to be the flavour of the moment.

[Blackpool Rock]

You already said this, in this thread, and I replied in post #26 - with the following link as an example of the kind of new storage tech under development -

External Link/Members Only

As I said above 40% of the wind in Europe blows on UK territory, which is a lot of energy available to be captured using cheap, low tech, already developed, wind power and stored using Li or flow batteries, or pumped hydro, or new ideas such as this liquid air method. And also hydrogen of course - which seems to be the flavour of the moment.

Yeah some people either don't get it or don't seem to want to get it and just revert to the argument that the wind doesn't blow all the time 
What we need are modern ideas and thinking for the future and wind / solar / wave / tidal are progressive solutions IMO 

The key point is that we shouldn't rely on 1 single source for our energy, wind as with any other source needs to be part of an overall energy strategy and if you can store that energy when it's plentiful to use when it's not then 

[lostandfound]

Yeah some people either don't get it or don't seem to want to get it and just revert to the argument that the wind doesn't blow all the time 
What we need are modern ideas and thinking for the future and wind / solar / wave / tidal are progressive solutions IMO 

The key point is that we shouldn't rely on 1 single source for our energy, wind as with any other source needs to be part of an overall energy strategy and if you can store that energy when it's plentiful to use when it's not then 

Absolutely. It's exciting seeing all these new ideas and renewables making strides that few imagined possible. 

[lostandfound]

One criticism of EV environmental credentials I've heard is that they don't address the microplastic pollution from their tyres - and in fact as they are heavier than ICE vehicles they make the problem worse.

In light of which this is an interesting idea -

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Some students realised the particles breaking off tyres carry an electrical charge so they designed a device to capture them for recycling.

[king tarzan]

Very economical I've heard

[Vkcs20]

This country is a right shithole. The system always trying to buttfuck petrolheads and punters (no wonder I don't punt in the UK anymore). So now in about 10 years time all new petrol/diesel cars won't be available?! And I read somewhere about charging motorists for using the roads (per mile).

Sorry for the rant, back on topic, the only electric cars that are tempting are the teslas performance versions (either the model s, x or 3) and the taycan turbo s. Tesla is releasing the model s plaid version next year, 0-60 in under 2secs and about 1100bhp. This is hypercar performance in a 4 door family saloon!

Until there are more charging points, I'd stick to M cars which provide the best value for performance imo. Thank god for that BMW depreciation otherwise I wouldn't have been able to get my M6 :-)

Electric cars are one trick ponies imo, fast petrol cars provide so much more driving pleasure (M and AMG cars especially).

[Gordon Bennett]

Research by GoCompare shows that insurance for EVs is on average 25% higher. Sometimes 70% higher. They put it down to higher costs of repair following an accident and any damage to the battery pack being prohibitively expensive to sort out and probably leading to write-off.

[Marmalade]

Electric cars are one trick ponies imo, fast petrol cars provide so much more driving pleasure

The voice of the common man and a real motorist. 

[Marmalade]

This country is a right shithole.

I’d say come to Scotland.. . But you’re not allowed in just now (no one is).

But to save you twiddling your thumbs as you burn up some petrol, how about a review? Any country. Any time. Just so we know you get out the car long enough to shag. 

[dynatron]

i think the price needs to come way down before most folk can even afford one and charging points/range too are very concerning and need work

[king tarzan]

I’d say come to Scotland.. . But you’re not allowed in just now (no one is).

But to save you twiddling your thumbs as you burn up some petrol, how about a review? Any country. Any time. Just so we know you get out the car long enough to shag. 

I've heard Scotland is very nice certain parts..
On the downside I've seen on TV that certain parts of Glasgow council estates are some of the worst in whole of UK

[Marmalade]

I've heard Scotland is very nice certain parts..
On the downside I've seen on TV that certain parts of Glasgow council estates are some of the worst in whole of UK

Glasgow is making a name for itself as a sort of go-to for filming stuff like Trainspotters. It does have some very civilised areas like their so-called 'West End' which is safely several miles out of the city centre (just hop on their toy underground train). But if trading hub caps is your thing, then there are schemies that will oblige if you take the wrong turning off the motorway.

Edinburgh is much more salubrious. Train to Waverley, 5 mins walk through beautiful historic scenery, fifty quid in the luxury VIP and room and you'll wish you'd booked a longer stay.

[dubs]

Electric cars are one trick ponies imo, fast petrol cars provide so much more driving pleasure (M and AMG cars especially).

What is their one trick?

I've just been watching some Tesla FSD videos on youtube, its absolutely incredible that the computer can drive the car around towns with barely any driver input, avoiding cyclists and pedestrians, making lane changes and left turns across junctions etc

[Blackpool Rock]

Research by GoCompare shows that insurance for EVs is on average 25% higher. Sometimes 70% higher. They put it down to higher costs of repair following an accident and any damage to the battery pack being prohibitively expensive to sort out and probably leading to write-off.

But i'm thinking that the new cost of the EV is probably around 25% higher than a normal petrol version therefore you'd probably expect the premium to also be higher 

The other thing i've noticed though is that for normal EV's such as the Nissan leaf you would think they would be driven sensibly by the tree hugger types however the taxi drivers in Blackpool seem pretty dangerous in them.
Perhaps it's just taxi drivers but they don't seem to slow down / give way enough at roundabouts / junctions etc I can only assume they are trying to keep momentum up 

[threechilliman]

But i'm thinking that the new cost of the EV is probably around 25% higher than a normal petrol version therefore you'd probably expect the premium to also be higher 

The other thing i've noticed though is that for normal EV's such as the Nissan leaf you would think they would be driven sensibly by the tree hugger types however the taxi drivers in Blackpool seem pretty dangerous in them.
Perhaps it's just taxi drivers but they don't seem to slow down / give way enough at roundabouts / junctions etc I can only assume they are trying to keep momentum up 

No, it's just that taxi drivers are the worst drivers on the road. Forever doing summat unexpected.....

[WASA38]

No, it's just that taxi drivers are the worst drivers on the road. Forever doing summat unexpected.....

cue JRC ?

[Blackpool Rock]

cue JRC ?

Well I thought he declared himself as retired the other day but no doubt he will still have an opinion which he is happy to share 

I'm thinking something along the lines of Black cab drivers are professionals so please don't compare them to mini cabs and definitely not the Uber under class 

[MilleMiglia]

For all those that are finding that the content of this thread is a bit much, here's a few links relating to the glory days of motoring:


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[smiths]

No, it's just that taxi drivers are the worst drivers on the road. Forever doing summat unexpected.....

Black cabbies I see are the most atrocious and selfish arseholes on the road, some will literally stop in the middle of the road and block the road up, or do an unexpected U-turn. IMO there are far too many cab drivers on Londons roads, that includes all forms of them, mini-cabs and Uber as well.

[king tarzan]

Black cabbies I see are the most atrocious and selfish arseholes on the road, some will literally stop in the middle of the road and block the road up, or do an unexpected U-turn. IMO there are far too many cab drivers on Londons roads, that includes all forms of them, mini-cabs and Uber as well.

I have found them helpful if I have asked for walking directions

[tynetunnel]

I have found them helpful if I have asked for walking directions

Probably glad you don’t want a ride in the cab!   

[Blackpool Rock]

I have found them helpful if I have asked for walking directions

I know of someone who asked a black cab driver for directions, the cabbie said he knew where it was and it wasn't far in the taxi so jump in.

A few minutes later the cabbie dropped him off and charged him an arm and a leg for the ride before pointing it's just down there 20 metres on the right then drove off, that was the point the passenger realised the cabbie had dropped him back where they started from 

Depending on how you look at it then it's either a cunts trick or actually quite funny as he saw an opportunity and went for it 

[Vkcs20]

Well their instant response and off the line speed is what the electric performance cars are known for.

Their tech seems also to be above conventional cars. The self driving capabilities and summon feature make them very interesting.

What is their one trick?

I've just been watching some Tesla FSD videos on youtube, its absolutely incredible that the computer can drive the car around towns with barely any driver input, avoiding cyclists and pedestrians, making lane changes and left turns across junctions etc

[Vkcs20]

I promise I will get a review done on my next trip abroad. Will probably be sometime next year probably.

I’d say come to Scotland.. . But you’re not allowed in just now (no one is).

But to save you twiddling your thumbs as you burn up some petrol, how about a review? Any country. Any time. Just so we know you get out the car long enough to shag. 

[Vkcs20]

How old's that M3 
Just looking online for the spec and the new ones are showing as an inline straight 6 turbo

0-60 in 4.1 seconds but with a limited 155Mph, 3 litre with 473 HP or the M3 Competition 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and 180Mph, power increased to 503 HP
Just shy of £75K but BMW being BMW you can probably add a shit load of money to that as everything will be a chargeable optional extra

He probably has the e90/92/93 versions. These were the last V8s M3s.

The new ones are the ones with the massive bugs bunny grills and they are straight inline six.

[threechilliman]

Black cabbies I see are the most atrocious and selfish arseholes on the road, some will literally stop in the middle of the road and block the road up, or do an unexpected U-turn. IMO there are far too many cab drivers on Londons roads, that includes all forms of them, mini-cabs and Uber as well.

Yes, I've been on the receiving end of one of those U-turns. As soon as I see a car behaving oddly my first thought is 'Taxi!'

[king tarzan]

He probably has the e90/92/93 versions. These were the last V8s M3s.

The new ones are the ones with the massive bugs bunny grills and they are straight inline six.

German cars the best.... 🦁 🦁 of the automobile world...👌👌👍👍

[smiths]

Yes, I've been on the receiving end of one of those U-turns. As soon as I see a car behaving oddly my first thought is 'Taxi!'

IMO the problem in London is black cabs have protection through the Mayor who like Boris before him is shit scared of their lobby group, then if they don't get their way they blockade roads in Central London to demonstrate, bunch of cunts. It makes me laugh, the socialist Mayor Khan bangs on morning, noon and night about pollution from vehicles, is extending the congestion charging zone in the future yet still allows some highly polluting black cabs to stay operating and sitting outside stations with their engines on, and they are congestion charge exempt unless that's changed at last. You couldn't make it up, it should be law that they must be ultra low emission or Electric same as any other form of cab should be. If the driver cant afford it that clears the road of another car.

I am not going overboard when I say in my area of Outer London when I go out in the early hours say to Asda every second car I see is a mini-cab as they have a sticker in the window as you may know, and often the same Vauxhall model of mini-cab. IF pollution is really what those in authority want to reduce then limiting cabs of all forms should already be happening. Also I see lots of drivers sitting in their cabs with the engines on waiting for a booking, yeah polluting all night as well as all day.

[Blackpool Rock]

German cars the best.... 🦁 🦁 of the automobile world...👌👌👍👍

I'd rate Jap as the best and if you're talking performance a Nissan GTR probably gives you the best bang for your buck 

[Squire Haggard]

I've heard Scotland is very nice certain parts..
On the downside I've seen on TV that certain parts of Glasgow council estates are some of the worst in whole of UK

TBH, I think that they are no worse than some in other parts of the UK. I think that others could be worse because up to and including the 1970s Glasgow had a gang problem, but its no longer the case.
I'm from there, so I'll post these links just to counter the stereotype image that outsiders might have. 

Perhaps the most expensive st in the West End.
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Whitecraigs, Newton Mearns etc 
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Bearsden
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I agree with Marmalade about Edinburgh though. The city centre is a must see.

[chrishornx]

TBH, I think that they are no worse than some in other parts of the UK. I think that others could be worse because up to and including the 1970s Glasgow had a gang problem, but its no longer the case.
I'm from there, so I'll post these links just to counter the stereotype image that outsiders might have. 

Perhaps the most expensive st in the West End.
External Link/Members Only

Whitecraigs, Newton Mearns etc 
External Link/Members Only

Bearsden
External Link/Members Only

I agree with Marmalade about Edinburgh though. The city centre is a must see.

nice info Squire mixed bunch not overwhelmed by Whitecraigs but the other areas look good

[Squire Haggard]

nice info Squire mixed bunch not overwhelmed by Whitecraigs but the other areas look good

I chose that street in Whitecraigs because I used to know someone long ago that lived there. There's plenty of impressive streets in that area.

PS The local state schools are among the highest rated in Scotland, better that some private schools. The demand for houses there reflects this.

[Prophet 999]

Mmmm so here's a scenario when everyone is electric -

You drive to visit family / friends and your car has a range of say 100 miles, you start out fully charged but by the time you reach them 70 miles away you don't have enough juice to get home without a recharge.

Do you ask your friends if you can "plug in" or do it on the way home 
I can see this getting under peoples skin

Lol. Battery and range will increase exponentially now that a hurry up has been notified by the government

They are all developing the tech...just phasing it into market piece meal to get the biggest bang for your buck

Look at the vaccine...amazing what you can do in 6 months when normally it takes years.....

I'm all electric and would never go back

It really is effortless BUT yes...you do need to plan your journeys better.

[lostandfound]

Lol. Battery and range will increase exponentially now that a hurry up has been notified by the government

They are all developing the tech...just phasing it into market piece meal to get the biggest bang for your buck

Look at the vaccine...amazing what you can do in 6 months when normally it takes years.....

I'm all electric and would never go back

It really is effortless BUT yes...you do need to plan your journeys better.

Personally I think they are stuck on "Battery and range", and that is why Tesla is planning to incorporate the battery into the structure of the car and Elon said at the recent Tesla Battery day, the price of Li batteries remain stubbornly high, and increasing demand which outstrips supply will if anything make the price go up not down.

Not sure what you mean by "Battery and range will increase exponentially" but to be honest "now that a hurry up has been notified by the government" will make no difference - how do you imagine a hurry up from the government will increase battery and range exponentially?

[Blackpool Rock]

Personally I think they are stuck on "Battery and range", and that is why Tesla is planning to incorporate the battery into the structure of the car and Elon said at the recent Tesla Battery day, the price of Li batteries remain stubbornly high, and increasing demand which outstrips supply will if anything make the price go up not down.

Not sure what you mean by "Battery and range will increase exponentially" but to be honest "now that a hurry up has been notified by the government" will make no difference - how do you imagine a hurry up from the government will increase battery and range exponentially?

Interesting bit on the BBC "Click" program today about the Lithium needed for batteries, currently in Europe it's only produced in the Czech republic but some of the Granite in Cornwall also has Lithium in it.
The theory is that new age cars may start to be manufactured in Cornwall of all places as it's likely to be more efficient to make the whole car there due to the battery weighing about 25% of the total car weight.

Thinking historically when the Industrial revolution was powered by coal all the other industries then sprang up wherever the coal was, so you needed trains to transport the coal and the 1st railways were in those areas, then you need to make and maintain the locomotives, then you need to make steel / iron etc.

Is depressed Cornwall going to transform into the next gold rush area over the next 10 years