Quarantine from travel abroad could be slashed to just FIVE days

[wombat42]

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[A Decent Fist]

Needs to happen. But if that pillock Hancock gets to decide he will unswervingly take the wrong decision.

[winkywanky]

A couple of things here:

Many people are rightly pissed off that their long-awaited holidays abroad are going tits up, and that they're getting virtually no notice at all to make their minds up whether to:

a) just stay on holiday and suffer the isolation upon their return, or

b) try to get home against an impossibly tight deadline, and then fail miserably because everyone else is trying to do the same thing  .

I totally get the 'science', and that we need to be doing the right thing to try to prevent a (very damaging) second wave here, but FFS, can they really not set the deadline to Saturday or Sunday evening? That way, loads of people will be coming home anyway because most people go out and return at the weekend, normally a Saturday. To say they want everyone back by 4am on Saturday morning seems totally insane, and actually designed to piss off people. I wouldn't mind betting that very many people will simply ignore regulations when they return because they're so pissed off about it, many more than would have done.

In essence, I think our govt are doing the right thing, but probably overreacting because they've got it so dismally wrong up to now, Lockdown too late, pronouncements about 'world-beating' protocols and processes when infact we've endured a shower of shit. But basically doing the right thing, they are.

But for the French to then simply say well if you're going to do that to us, then we're going to fuck up your shit too, by making French holidaymakers return from a relatively safe country (the UK), to their own relatively more dangerous country (France), is just plain pathetic  . No scientific reason, just spite, pure and simple.

Sadly, I suspect this is exactly the type of attitude we're getting over the Brexit negotiations, where somehow they want to magically keep exactly the same access to our fishing waters.We've left, get over it. I didn't vote for us to leave, but leave we are, and stop being a bunch of Gallic cunts  .

ADF, I know you have a stake in this (you spend time en France), am I being unreasonable?

[winkywanky]

PS - I do think the 14 days is harsh. If there's a way to meaningfully and safely reduce this time by some kind of testing protocol, then do so.

But again, why haven't our govt thought of this? We just seem to be in a state of total chaos, lurching from one gormless ineptitude disaster to the next. It's govt by reaction, not action  .

Can you tell I'm pissed off? 

[A Decent Fist]

gormless ineptitude

Pithiest description of Matt Hancock I've yet seen. It also covers the whole Covid response from Boris Johnson's disappointing government.

Really, as a fervent anti-socialist who is neither racist nor xenophobic nor thick enough to support far-right parties, who the fuck can I vote for the next time an election comes around?

PS: No, your reaction is not unreasonable WW.

[Malvolio]

They deliberately picked 4am because it's during the time period where no flights land in the UK.

[finn5555]

Anyone who books to go abroad whilst this pandemic is still happening need to stop moaning if they have to self isolate 
They know the risk

[winkywanky]

Anyone who books to go abroad whilst this pandemic is still happening need to stop moaning if they have to self isolate 
They know the risk

The first lot didn't really know the risk...until they got told to get home within a few hours or they were fucked.

The strategy is correct. But the application is heavy-handed IMO. I can't remember there being open discussion of how it would be applied.

[Waterhouse]

Pithiest description of Matt Hancock I've yet seen. It also covers the whole Covid response from Boris Johnson's disappointing government.

Really, as a fervent anti-socialist who is neither racist nor xenophobic nor thick enough to support far-right parties, who the fuck can I vote for the next time an election comes around?

PS: No, your reaction is not unreasonable WW.

Couldn't agree more.  I was thinking to waste my vote on Green or Monster..!!   Can't believe I voted for Bozo now though - and subsequently his fellow chimps.  Seems to me they just fling mud at the wall and wait to see if, where and when it sticks.

As for Hancock, just don't get me started... Class A clueless and fuckwit cunt of epic proportions.

[webpunter]

+1
He's in competition with Williamson for being champion fucktard MP
Both trying their very hardest

As for Hancock, just don't get me started... Class A clueless and fuckwit cunt of epic proportions.

And would you believe it that Williamson has been nominated for MP of the year.  WTF ! 

External Link/Members Only

What a bollox award - Corbyn is on the shortlist too 
Just need Abbott to be somehow added to the shortlist - that would hilarious

[myothernameis]

Anyone who books to go abroad whilst this pandemic is still happening need to stop moaning if they have to self isolate 
They know the risk

One minute, you find that if you were on holiday, in Portugal, on return to the UK, you would have to isolate for 14 days.  But now that has changed, Portugal has been removed from the quarantine, but what the point of having x amount of countries on this list, while others arent on it

I think it should apply across the board to all countries, if you travel abroad, and then two weeks later return home, you should isolate for at least  7 - 10 days

[paper7]

One minute, you find that if you were on holiday, in Portugal, on return to the UK, you would have to isolate for 14 days.  But now that has changed, Portugal has been removed from the quarantine, but what the point of having x amount of countries on this list, while others arent on it

I think it should apply across the board to all countries, if you travel abroad, and then two weeks later return home, you should isolate for at least  7 - 10 days

Yep - or don't go abroad, anywhere, at all.

[A Decent Fist]

Yep - or don't go abroad, anywhere, at all.

Not sure if you're being serious or satirical but for a few of us there's more to it than "going abroad". I live in two places and one of them is "abroad".

[Strawberry]

Not sure if you're being serious or satirical but for a few of us there's more to it than "going abroad". I live in two places and one of them is "abroad".

Also work and sports people for competitions, life has become based around international travel as a 'norm'. Covid-19 has thrown that 'on it's arse'.

So so glad I took the opportunities I did in the last few years, so nothing affected this year.

There are some people however who took first opportunity when the guidelines and rules allowed to book a foreign holiday, also some sports tournaments have been very ambitious now having to cancel.

[unclepokey]

As to Williamson and Hancock I'm reminded of my schooldays when coming home with a less than satisfactory school report and saying to my parents that "I'd done my best" brought forth- "That, my boy, is the pathetic part about it".
Happily that spur to greatness was sufficient so as to achieve a rather successful career and money to allow punting.

[mh]

They deliberately picked 4am because it's during the time period where no flights land in the UK.

It still would have screwed the ferry passengers coming from France who were due to dock before 4am but variable winds meant they might not dock until after 4. Yes it really was as ridiculous as that. If the ferry hadn't made it by 4am they would have to self-isolate for 14 days. The very same passengers who left France at the same time would either be a danger because they docked at 04:01 but would be safe to mingle with the rest of us unencumbered by self isolation if they docked at 04:00. 

[winkywanky]

One enterprising group of people chartered a fishing vessel and landed with moments to spare  .

The sudden deadline was crazy though.

Similarly I think, the fact that we closed the air corridor to Majorca and the Canary Islands, which despite being part of Spain are separate landmasses, and at the time had lower infection rates than the UK. It all seems heavy-handed to the extent of being irrational  .

[Waterhouse]

One enterprising group of people chartered a fishing vessel and landed with moments to spare  .

The sudden deadline was crazy though.

Similarly I think, the fact that we closed the air corridor to Majorca and the Canary Islands, which despite being part of Spain are separate landmasses, and at the time had lower infection rates than the UK. It all seems heavy-handed to the extent of being irrational  .

Indeed.  In fact Spain overall is generally safer than the UK... Galicia is a good example of this last time I looked.

[winkywanky]

Indeed.  In fact Spain overall is generally safer than the UK... Galicia is a good example of this last time I looked.

I guess the thing is, you could be on mainland Spain and travelling around by car or train. I get that. I think overall, because of their hotspots their infection rate was (is?) a lot higher than ours. Same with France.

But Majorca and The Canaries are different, you have to fly in or out, or get a boat.

[webpunter]

A mate of mine has just come back from spain
Face masks have to be worn pretty much at all times
And virtually all people do this like its 2nd nature
The rozzers hand out €100 fines if you don't & there is no fucking around
You have to give them details.  No discussion
I can't imagine that happening here
Civil liberties campaigners would be onto it straight away
Banging about people's rights rather than responsibilities

Indeed.  In fact Spain overall is generally safer than the UK... Galicia is a good example of this last time I looked.

[winkywanky]

The Guardia Civil have guns. You don't fuck with them. Simples.

[myothernameis]

A mate of mine has just come back from spain
Face masks have to be worn pretty much at all times
And virtually all people do this like its 2nd nature
The rozzers hand out €100 fines if you don't & there is no fucking around

A work colleague was in Spanish Islands around June, and spent most of there days in the hotel, you weren't allowed out, and if so, had to have a good reason

If you wanted any groceries, the hotel would give you a slip, and you showed this to the police.  Mask had to be worn, and you had no choice, and some  holiday makers were fined, so more or less everyone obey the law

If leaving the hotel with no slip, you were immediately turned back, and as you said police were armed, so no one dared argue with them

What annoys me, the police in Spain, and other European countries, seem to be doing what is required with covid-19, but here in the UK, our police forces, are to busy to deal with this

[webpunter]

And they get respect
Unlike over here 
Was at a footy match in Spain & there are specialist police units outside the ground before & after the match
And some inside
Proper hardnuts & tooled up
Even the most ardent footy hooligan would think twice

If mobile footage emerges of some tosspot getting a kicking over here the police suspend whoever it is & launch an investigation
In spain france & italy the response is like 'do you think we give a fuck?'

If you steer clear of the police they leave you alone they have more important things to do & everyone is safer

The Guardia Civil have guns. You don't fuck with them. Simples.

[mh]

One enterprising group of people chartered a fishing vessel

There have been many such crossings recently by enterprising groups. 

[winkywanky]

There have been many such crossings recently by enterprising groups. 

Yes, and they get put up in 5* Hotels and get fed for a few weeks before disappearing in the undergrowth once they've forged community connections  .

[Waterhouse]

Yes, and they get put up in 5* Hotels and get fed for a few weeks before disappearing in the undergrowth once they've forged community connections  .

A few weeks?  And the rest. Most if not all of these hotels are booked out for the year. It’s also heading south now and into Essex, in fact in Pathetic Patel’s very own constituency.

[winkywanky]

A few weeks?  And the rest. Most if not all of these hotels are booked out for the year. It’s also heading south now and into Essex, in fact in Pathetic Patel’s very own constituency.

Hopefully that'll galvanise her even more 

[j4247]

The heavy handedness of the Spanish police has done them fuck all good though. Their case numbers are way higher than anywhere else in the region.

[king tarzan]

putting it simply.. this virus is here to stay.. just have to modify lifestyle accordingly.. any physical indulgences with strangers is simply danger zone roulette.... otherwise just glue yourselves to your abode and do nothing and play the waiting game..
Life goes on and just move on with acceptance.. come what may HOPE FOR THE BEST.

[winkywanky]

The heavy handedness of the Spanish police has done them fuck all good though. Their case numbers are way higher than anywhere else in the region.

Perhaps it's more to do with what goes on behind closed doors?

Certainly, when I've been out and about shopping etc (and even in pub gardens), people are generally very good, very respectful and good at obeying guidelines. Otherwise they get glared at or just plain told off.

I think the rise in cases is more to do with private gatherings and multiple occupancy households in certain communities, in this country anyway.

A lot of the new cases now are youngsters, I guess that could be on boozy nights out (I won't be there so couldn't say for sure  ) or gatherings in houses. I think it's the same pattern in Spain, reports are that all across Europe, the rise in cases is predominantly from 18-29yr olds.

[paper7]

I think the only way to get a grip on this is to suspend international travel indefinitely. Allowing no-one in and no-one out will give us a chance to get a handle on it, otherwise if we carry on the way we're going we risk re-infection after re-infection and will never get rid of it.

[myothernameis]

I think the only way to get a grip on this is to suspend international travel indefinitely. Allowing no-one in and no-one out will give us a chance to get a handle on it, otherwise if we carry on the way we're going we risk re-infection after re-infection and will never get rid of it.

I'm surprised gyms have been allowed to open, and even though myself, I have rejoined pure-gym, cant help but think, its not perfect

As per the rules, were all suppose to wear a face-covering, when not exercising, there supposed to be used when moving around in the gym

So why do I think, the gyms could spread covid-19, if someone enters the gym with covid-19, and not aware of this, the potential to spread this wide spread.  Your exercising on a treadmill, your sweating and breathing heavily as you increase your exercise, any droplets of saliva could be spread around by the air condition. 

While at the gym today, I looked round to see how many other were exercising near me, and I counted 10 persons, so at some time, are gyms to be a cause a further second wave

Pure-gym even allow you to opt out of track and trace

[paper7]

 

While at the gym today, I looked round to see how many other were exercising near me, and I counted 10 persons, so at some time, are gyms to be a cause a further second wave.

If not the direct cause of it then it's certainly a contributory factor.

[Digby232]

If we had the bollocks to close our borders completely at the start of this , as much of Africa and New Zealand did, we would have been virtually clear by now. We’re an island so easier to do than Central African countries but no we piss about trying different combinations that will just drag this on for years. So it’s ruined the prospect for millions of young people but not so well publicised it’s ruined the life of many in their 50’s who will never get another job and have fuck all pension!

[advent2016]

I think this is going to be here for ever. Just had two tests this week (mostly as a publicity stunt to show how wonderful HMG are) both negative.

Many of these hospitality jobs are never coming back along with travel abroad. Sadly the people in these jobs will have to find an alternative career but many of the future jobs require useful skills and not the ability to pour a pint of beer or draw a picture on a cup of coffee.

[winkywanky]

I think this is going to be here for ever. Just had two tests this week (mostly as a publicity stunt to show how wonderful HMG are) both negative.

Many of these hospitality jobs are never coming back along with travel abroad. Sadly the people in these jobs will have to find an alternative career but many of the future jobs require useful skills and not the ability to pour a pint of beer or draw a picture on a cup of coffee.

Without giving too much away, can you say why you had two Covid tests this week?

[advent2016]

Antigen (currently infected) / antibody  (check for antibodies) and blood tests.
I've been part of various trials since May.

I just do what I'm told. "Turn up at this place at a specified time quote your number / show ID  and a pretty nurse will take your blood, saliva and nose scrapes . You may be filmed for publicity purposes, so wear a mask, cover up any epaulettes or use dummies, then later we'll fuck social distancing and have a right knees up, hopefully with them nurses"
 In reality the pretty nurses ruse was a lie.

[winkywanky]

Antigen (currently infected) / antibody  (check for antibodies) and blood tests.
I've been part of various trials since May.

I just do what I'm told. "Turn up at this place at a specified time quote your number / show ID  and a pretty nurse will take your blood, saliva and nose scrapes . You may be filmed for publicity purposes, so wear a mask, cover up any epaulettes or use dummies, then later we'll fuck social distancing and have a right knees up, hopefully with them nurses"
 In reality the pretty nurses ruse was a lie.

Well done for being part of that 

[paper7]

If we had the bollocks to close our borders completely at the start of this , as much of Africa and New Zealand did, we would have been virtually clear by now. We’re an island so easier to do than Central African countries but no we piss about trying different combinations that will just drag this on for years. So it’s ruined the prospect for millions of young people but not so well publicised it’s ruined the life of many in their 50’s who will never get another job and have fuck all pension!

Yep - fully agree with your comment. We, and the world, should have gone one further and stopped the spread from country to country by banning air-travel.

[County Militia]

If we had the bollocks to close our borders completely at the start of this , as much of Africa and New Zealand did, we would have been virtually clear by now. We’re an island so easier to do than Central African countries but no we piss about trying different combinations that will just drag this on for years. So it’s ruined the prospect for millions of young people but not so well publicised it’s ruined the life of many in their 50’s who will never get another job and have fuck all pension!

You sound like a right bitter prick to be honest. You can always do something about your situation or do you prefer bitching on here about how life is unfair and the world owes you everything.

[advent2016]

This was in the Telegraph the other day - sounds like hogwash, but hey who knows.

External Link/Members Only


Face masks could be giving people Covid-19 immunity, researchers suggest

Mask wearing might also be reducing the severity of the virus and ensuring that a greater proportion of new infections are asymptomatic



Face masks may be inadvertently giving people Covid-19 immunity and making them get less sick from the virus, academics have suggested in one of the most respected medical journals in the world.

The commentary, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, advances the unproven but promising theory that universal face mask wearing might be helping to reduce the severity of the virus and ensuring that a greater proportion of new infections are asymptomatic.

If this hypothesis is borne out, the academics argue, then universal mask-wearing could become a form of variolation (inoculation) that would generate immunity and “thereby slow the spread of the virus in the United States and elsewhere” as the world awaits a vaccine.

It comes as increasing evidence suggests that the amount of virus someone is exposed to at the start of infection - the “infectious dose” - may determine the severity of their illness. Indeed, a large study published in the Lancet last month found that “viral load at diagnosis” was an “independent predictor of mortality” in hospital patients.

Wearing masks could therefore reduce the infectious dose that the wearer is exposed to and, subsequently, the impact of the disease, as masks filter out some virus-containing droplets.

[j_181]

“viral load at diagnosis” was an “independent predictor of mortality” in hospital patients.

Assuming of course that viral load at diagnosis is a good predictor of viral load at infection - not clear to me that it would be.

An alternative interpretation of this correlation could be that the later in the infection course a person is diagnosed, the worse their outcome, which is of course true for almost all infectious diseases.

[webpunter]

Read somewhere - can't remember which article / exactly when - that one reason behind hospital staff falling prey to the virus is that they picked up multiple doses of the virus from different people & this is increased the mortality rate.  Same for the likes of bus drivers exposed to numerous infectious passengers

It comes as increasing evidence suggests that the amount of virus someone is exposed to at the start of infection - the “infectious dose” - may determine the severity of their illness. Indeed, a large study published in the Lancet last month found that “viral load at diagnosis” was an “independent predictor of mortality” in hospital patients.

[winkywanky]

You sound like a right bitter prick to be honest. You can always do something about your situation or do you prefer bitching on here about how life is unfair and the world owes you everything.

My, what a gobby, nasty little cunt you are.

Someone gives a point of view which you don't agree with and you resort instantly to insults.

It's very clear here who's the bitter prick, and why many here think so  .

[County Militia]

My, what a gobby, nasty little cunt you are.

Someone gives a point of view which you don't agree with and you resort instantly to insults.

What are you doing right now? Think about it.....

[winkywanky]

What are you doing right now? Think about it.....

Most of your posts are abusive or sneering. Mine aren't.

That makes you a cunt in anyone's book, deal with it 

[County Militia]

Most of your posts are abusive or sneering. Mine aren't.

That makes you a cunt in anyone's book, deal with it 

I was only calling it how I saw it. An individual who is very miserable and blaming others for all of their problems and how they believe life is unfair as a result of it. Feel free to ignore my posts if you don't like them. 

[Spencer Fobby]

Most of your posts are abusive or sneering. Mine aren't.

That makes you a cunt in anyone's book, deal with it 

I'm curious how this doesn't break rule #23.  And I'm not making a specific dig at you WW, but if you were a member with fuck all reviews and very few topic posts - and not a prolific member of long standing - wouldn't you be banned for this? Or at least given a warning?  I've seen some nasty behaviour from a few members, but it seems only some people land on the wrong side of mods/admin and suffer a ban for insulting/abusing other members.  Genuinely curious as I sense that the rules often get applied on a personal rather than objective perspective.

[daviemac]

I'm curious how this doesn't break rule #23.  And I'm not making a specific dig at you WW, but if you were a member with fuck all reviews and very few topic posts - and not a prolific member of long standing - wouldn't you be banned for this? Or at least given a warning?  I've seen some nasty behaviour from a few members, but it seems only some people land on the wrong side of mods/admin and suffer a ban for insulting/abusing other members.  Genuinely curious as I sense that the rules often get applied on a personal rather than objective perspective.

Each case is judged individual, a lot depends on whether or not the 'abuse' is deemed to be excessive in relation to the context in which it is used. There has also been quite a few newish members warned about abuse before being banned.

Also don't assume because it isn't done in public that established members aren't warned.

[Matrix]

Each case is judged individual, a lot depends on whether or not the 'abuse' is deemed to be excessive in relation to the context in which it is used. There has also been quite a few newish members warned about abuse before being banned.

Also don't assume because it isn't done in public that established members aren't warned.

I'm a fucking idiot and you expected better of me? 

I respectfully put my POV forward and then you call me a fucking idiot.

In my book, that makes you a complete cunt. So why don't you fuck off you imbecile, if you can't have a civilised discussion. Go on, just fuck right off. Fucking ignorant twat  .

It's called turning the argument on its head to gain a different perspective  .

I don't know why I bothered engaging you further Matrix, just fuck off  .

There's a lot more where that came from.


All because somebody doesn't understand context and thought that I called him a fucking idiot and my refusal to be demonised. I actually find it rather endearing though.  I'll never report anyone for calling me a cunt.