Hands free driving comes into view

[mh]

Think I'm right in saying in EU countries like France, Netherlands and Belgium, in a collision between a motorised vehicle and a bicycle, the vehicle is assumed to be at fault unless proved otherwise, at least for insurance purposes.

Insurance companies/policies will be a big factor in when driverless cars are allowed on the roads without someone watching what it does. Who is insured? Can't be the driver. The owner? Why? The manufacturer? You can bet they will be doing all they can to shift responsibility on to the company that provides the control unit.

In theory insurance should be far cheaper than for a flawed human - we'll see!

[winkywanky]

In reality most of our motorways are so congested that all the lanes are slow 

Where are all the lorries that go at 56mph?

[winkywanky]

No laws have been changed yet, its just in the media more due to the fact more people are cycling and collective bodies such as SKC(stop killing cyclists) do a good job or countering Daily Mail readers who all want cyclists exterminated

And as for cyclists jumping red lights, its not done blindly, judgement is used in the same way as when a pedestrian crosses a road without the aid of a proper crossing.  In some european countries, theres an extra set of small traffic lights just for cyclists, so that they get a green 8 seconds before the motorised traffic does.  How many cyclists have been killed by waiting at a red light only for a truck with no indicator just turns left when the light turns green.  If cases like that ever go to court the truck driver just pleads blind spot, and gets off.  If a Vauhall Corsa can have 360deg cameras to aid parking, why is the truck industry such a bunch of ludites about eliminating the blind spots.  The reason is that the courts back up the truck drivers despite a solution being so simple.

I didn't say any laws have been changed. I said sentencing and charging are becoming more realistic and fair now because there are more people on bikes.

It's never a good idea to go through a red light IMO, but certainly, moving to the front of a stationary traffic queue on a bike is desirable because everyone can see you (if they're paying attention). And as we know, at more and more sets of lights, there are boxes at the front for cyclists to wait in. Sadly you often see idiots in cars using the space, similarly, parking in cycle lanes.

But thankfully, certainly things are shifting more towards cyclists as more and more people are on bikes. Long way to go yet though, and in the meantime we need to look at countries like the Netherlands to see what can be done to help facilitate this.

[king tarzan]

heard this shit many times, the totally drivers less car, until they found at out later many technical faults.. and ares still working on it..
I don't believe in any distractions apart from the music cd or radio on in car, anything else big no no.. this just encourages reckless mismanagement of vehicle, a complete false sense of security.. technology should have a limited framework and not be allowed to extend beyond that which takes it into complete lunacy..

[Xtro]

...... Sadly you often see idiots in cars using the space, similarly, parking in cycle lanes.
.......

It's getting beyond a joke..... You cannot even park on the pavements either because of those pesky pedestrians!   

[Happylad]

According to what I`ve read, the driverless bit will rely on a great extent on the various road signs and markings - particularly lane markings, HALT signs and road markings, crossing markings etc. The problem is that on our roads lane markings seem to get very quickly obliterated by heavy commercial vehicles, other markings frequently disappear in temporary repairs which become permanent, and are never replaced. 

The question of a driver dozing off (it has been suggested) could be dealt with by fitting vibrating driver`s seats, which would be activated at the first sign of danger - completely ignoring the fact the some lady drivers might thereby have their concentration even further reduced or even be tempted to drive badly on purpose.

[mr.bluesky]

It can't be any worse than the " brains free" driving that you come across on today's roads. The other day when I was out and about I saw more than a few examples of bad driving I was beginning to think it was " national drive like a twat day" 

[Blackpool Rock]

It can't be any worse than the " brains free" driving that you come across on today's roads. The other day when I was out and about I saw more than a few examples of bad driving I was beginning to think it was " national drive like a twat day" 

Perhaps someone was out testing their eyesight 

[Squire Haggard]

Hands and brain free driving, no thanks. 

''How many cop cars and emergency vehicles does Autopilot need to hit before someone gives a shit?''

External Link/Members Only

[lostandfound]

Hands and brain free driving, no thanks. 

''How many cop cars and emergency vehicles does Autopilot need to hit before someone gives a shit?''

External Link/Members Only

Tesla goes its own way and is not representative of the industry when it comes to self driving. For example, as of last year's Battery Day, AIUI they only use cameras, whereas the Europeans and everyone else throws everything at the task - cameras, laser and conventional radar, and ultrasonics etc.

Musk is quite mad but convinced he will succeed ahead of everyone else, and he does have a lot of geniuses recruited from NASA - when Obama slashed NASA's budget and they sacked lots of geniuses Elon flew down to Florida and hired them to come work for him. And when asked how much of their R & D budget they spend on this, he intimated they spend all of it on it.

[hungrypunt]

The Industry is 4 years behind Tesla, and by the time they crack his algorithms and code, he will be another 4 years in front.

I had a Tesla model S, nutty fast, but safe as houses and a complete dream to drive. No petrol car on the road will match it for acceleration, Ive said goodbye to many a boy racer from traffic lights, in 2.8 seconds in Ludicrous mode, byeeeee.
Uk isnt the best for the autopilot but it does work well, esp on main roads / highways, I felt far more alert/refreshed after a long drive.
The lane change s a breeze, the new updated software recognises all sorts of things, Elon has gone into detail why Lidar/radar tech is not as good as cameras and satellites.

It has braked and slowed down rapid a few times for me, also audible warnings when objects may be about to enter the lane in front unexpectedly, though Ive never been so close where as it has had to swerve or brake hard. I drove from London to Manchester and hardly "drove" it myself on the motorway, every so often a message tells you to touch the steering wheel to show you are alert, but keeping your hand on it must have heat sensors or something as the message goes away then. Most of my emails are done before I get where Im going huge web interface in the dash screen as big as any laptop, stop at services work done without even unpacking my laptop bag.

No more pertrol station stops, updates over the internet when new releases come out, cheap to run, wake up every morning with a tank full of miles for about 12 quid, chepaer if you have economy 7,  warm the car remotely before you get in, summon it from its parking spot when raining....blah blah blah, I honestly dont see me going back to a petrol car again ever. But the model S was the dogs ! ony 1 gripe is it wont drive itself after 90mph 

keep pushing theose shares Elon lad !

But I do agree, hes 420 nuts

[Xtro]

......
I had a Tesla model S, ....

Price tag about 90k by the looks of it. Sounds great though.   

[GingerNuts]

The Industry is 4 years behind Tesla, and by the time they crack his algorithms and code, he will be another 4 years in front.

I had a Tesla model S, nutty fast, but safe as houses and a complete dream to drive. No petrol car on the road will match it for acceleration, Ive said goodbye to many a boy racer from traffic lights, in 2.8 seconds in Ludicrous mode, byeeeee.
Uk isnt the best for the autopilot but it does work well, esp on main roads / highways, I felt far more alert/refreshed after a long drive.
The lane change s a breeze, the new updated software recognises all sorts of things, Elon has gone into detail why Lidar/radar tech is not as good as cameras and satellites.

It has braked and slowed down rapid a few times for me, also audible warnings when objects may be about to enter the lane in front unexpectedly, though Ive never been so close where as it has had to swerve or brake hard. I drove from London to Manchester and hardly "drove" it myself on the motorway, every so often a message tells you to touch the steering wheel to show you are alert, but keeping your hand on it must have heat sensors or something as the message goes away then. Most of my emails are done before I get where Im going huge web interface in the dash screen as big as any laptop, stop at services work done without even unpacking my laptop bag.

No more pertrol station stops, updates over the internet when new releases come out, cheap to run, wake up every morning with a tank full of miles for about 12 quid, chepaer if you have economy 7,  warm the car remotely before you get in, summon it from its parking spot when raining....blah blah blah, I honestly dont see me going back to a petrol car again ever. But the model S was the dogs ! ony 1 gripe is it wont drive itself after 90mph 

keep pushing theose shares Elon lad !

But I do agree, hes 420 nuts

A pity hands-free driving isn't legal in the UK yet.

[hungrypunt]

Price tag about 90k by the looks of it. Sounds great though.   

sounds barmy but some offset does come via the way of fuel savings, service costs etc etc especially if you do lots of miles and charge over economy 7. so the initial up front cost soon becimes more attractive.

I reckon most taxis will become electric soon, and the model 3 now if Im correct can be bought for uder 30 k brand new and thus trebling any profit on fares taken, then with the lifesoan of batteries predicted to be guaranteed almost a million miles gotta be a serious contender.

[lostandfound]

sounds barmy but some offset does come via the way of fuel savings, service costs etc etc especially if you do lots of miles and charge over economy 7. so the initial up front cost soon becimes more attractive.

I reckon most taxis will become electric soon, and the model 3 now if Im correct can be bought for uder 30 k brand new and thus trebling any profit on fares taken, then with the lifesoan of batteries predicted to be guaranteed almost a million miles gotta be a serious contender.

Where do you get a brand new price of < 30K from? The cheapest is over £40K according to the Tesla website.

[winkywanky]

I drove from London to Manchester and hardly "drove" it myself on the motorway, every so often a message tells you to touch the steering wheel to show you are alert, but keeping your hand on it must have heat sensors or something as the message goes away then. Most of my emails are done before I get where Im going huge web interface in the dash screen as big as any laptop, stop at services work done without even unpacking my laptop bag.

Where does UK Law stand on this ATM?

On your phone, doing other stuff in the car, a copper sees you and pulls you over.

Presumably you're legal using the car like this?

In actual fact, have you had coppers pull you over because you were on your phone etc? Or do they just see it's a Tesla and not bother?

[cunningman]

Presumably you're legal using the car like this?

I'll eat my TomTom if that's the case.  After all, I have a Garmin now.

[hungrypunt]

Where do you get a brand new price of < 30K from? The cheapest is over £40K according to the Tesla website.

Dunno, a txi driver told me the price was sub 30k, I think maybe govt EV grants may be the key ? not for me, too small but price is right if so.

[winkywanky]

I'll eat my TomTom if that's the case.  After all, I have a Garmin now.

They are a little less chewy, aren't they?

[lostandfound]

Dunno, a txi driver told me the price was sub 30k, I think maybe govt EV grants may be the key ? not for me, too small but price is right if so.

Come off it, sub 30K - load of bollocks isn't it?

[hungrypunt]

Where does UK Law stand on this ATM?

On your phone, doing other stuff in the car, a copper sees you and pulls you over.

Presumably you're legal using the car like this?

In actual fact, have you had coppers pull you over because you were on your phone etc? Or do they just see it's a Tesla and not bother?

No you cant use your phone etc lgeally while driving, my post was ambiguous I always try to stop at services when using emails etc but dont have to faf finding laptops or chargers etc, just use the built in internet browser / screen n the car.
Id be lying if I said I have never used my phone while driving in this and other cars, but I think most of us have done similar, eating, smoking, drinking picking your nose, all of whoch destarct and have the need for hands off the wheel.

the law states you cant use your phone it unless fully hands free or nav device for that matter. We all have dictate and command on the phones and in cars nowadays, but still the temptation  is there to pick it up.

Fact is using a hand held device only allowed when stationary and parked.

I find it strange how the tesla screen still allow web browings etc whilst on the move, allbeit you can dictate.

Also a weird thing, my post yesterday said the car (its not a model s now btw) had never done an aggressive swerve to avoid collision, well fuck me today it did, me and a girl I met  driving normally, hands free in a 40mph, I was doing 35 and 2 bell ends decided to run across the main road in Rhyl (bank holiday piss heads) beep beeep beep inside the car, slam on and swerved over just as I got my foot on the brake, must have been a half second before me? . Worked well, felt like the old ABS on other cars with a similar sound, but with evasive action.
coincidence or spooky we had just been to the im a celebrity set in Abergele


A lorry driver friend of mine once told me he dozed off and swears he was gone for a mile at least, ( how I dont know) said some motorways the tyre lines are "rutted" in and this is what saved him??? kept him on track.

[winkywanky]

Thanks for the clarification over the on-board web browser.

[hungrypunt]

Come off it, sub 30K - load of bollocks isn't it?

Well youd think so, but with grants etc I dunno, all I know i they are 35k USD in usa ??? winds you up
Mines an X but id have a model 3 any day but I ike a big car.

If they are or reach sub 30k for a taxi I reckon winner, may even set me a business up..TELSA TAXIS got you there first ha ha

[lostandfound]

Well youd think so, but with grants etc I dunno, all I know id they are 35k USD in usa ??? winds you up
Mines an X but id have a model 3 any day but I ike a big car

For the avoidance of doubt here is a link to the Tesla website - External Link/Members Only - showing that if you want to buy a Model 3 it will cost you at least £40,490

So you have a Model X? I ask, because several posts ago you had a Model S?

[hungrypunt]

For the avoidance of doubt here is a link to the Tesla website - External Link/Members Only - showing that if you want to buy a Model 3 it will cost you at least £40,490

Like I say, I was told by a taxi driver sub 30k or around 30k, maybe grants or whatever maybe bollocks

So you have a Model X? I ask, because several posts ago you had a Model S?

I sold my Model S between posts 

No mate re read them,

[lostandfound]

Like I say, I was told by a taxi driver sub 30k or around 30k, maybe grants or whatever maybe bollocksI sold my Model S between posts 

No mate re read them,

It's obviously bollocks.

So you have owned both a Model S and a Model X but don't know the price of a Model 3?

[hungrypunt]

It's obviously bollocks.

So you have owned both a Model S and a Model X but don't know the price of a Model 3?

And problem with that is ? mlord

Am I  being grilled by a guy who cant read posts properly ?

[lostandfound]

And problem with that is ? mlord

A smell of BS.

[hungrypunt]

A smell of BS.

Oh, ha ha, fair play well I bow to your wisdom.
Which part excatly would be BS and why does it bother you

edit** at the risk of this making me looking like a posing twat, ( I should have took the moral high ground but find it hard nowadays to ignore bell ends) but just to show you are a bell end, look at the time and the badge mr BS man.


Hidden Image/Members Only

[lostandfound]

Oh, ha ha, fair play well I bow to your wisdom.
Which part excatly would be BS and why does it bother you

edit** at the risk of this making me looking like a posing twat, ( I should have took the moral high ground but find it hard nowadays to ignore bell ends) but just to show you are a bell end, look at the time and the badge mr BS man.


Hidden Image/Members Only

Haha - kettle / pot - if there is one thing that Tesla fan boys are known for on the web, it's being bell ends. True, is it not? 

Your story about the Model 3 is still bollocks though. As a paid up member of the Teslarati you may be so far inside Elon's reality distortion field you will believe anything a random taxi driver or man down the pub tells you that feeds the legend!

Anyway, nice motor. Not that I would buy one. I'm not willing to pony up for a Taycan, but happy to wait for that kind of quality and engineering to become available for the price of a Model 3.

[hungrypunt]

if there is one thing that Tesla fan boys are known for on the web, it's being bell ends

aaaand there we have it.

[lostandfound]

aaaand there we have it.

What, you saying it's not the case?

[GingerNuts]

No you cant use your phone etc lgeally while driving, my post was ambiguous I always try to stop at services when using emails etc but dont have to faf finding laptops or chargers etc, just use the built in internet browser / screen n the car.
Id be lying if I said I have never used my phone while driving in this and other cars, but I think most of us have done similar, eating, smoking, drinking picking your nose, all of whoch destarct and have the need for hands off the wheel.

the law states you cant use your phone it unless fully hands free or nav device for that matter. We all have dictate and command on the phones and in cars nowadays, but still the temptation  is there to pick it up.

Fact is using a hand held device only allowed when stationary and parked.

I find it strange how the tesla screen still allow web browings etc whilst on the move, allbeit you can dictate.

It's still illegal for you to be driving with your hands off the wheel.

I drove from London to Manchester and hardly "drove" it myself on the motorway, every so often a message tells you to touch the steering wheel to show you are alert, but keeping your hand on it must have heat sensors or something as the message goes away then.

[hungrypunt]

What, you saying it's not the case?

depends if I am a sheep or not doesnt it ? you against certain car owners? strange ? how do BM driver fair, Cortinas maybe ?

tesla lives matter 

[hungrypunt]

It's still illegal for you to be driving with your hands off the wheel.

True

[lostandfound]

depends if I am a sheep or not doesnt it ?

tesla lives matter 

If you're not a sheep why are you prepared to argue until you're blue in the face in favour of some bollocks a random taxi driver told you, for which you have no other source?   

[hungrypunt]

In an effort to change the subject back to hands free, instead of petty arguments with "IM lostandfound" ( who maaaaay have had a few shandies this afternoon) who knows Im a bell endio cos other people on the interweb say I am cos of what i may drive.
I wonder what i was when I had mark 2 Cortina...sounds carist to me.....anyway back to some normal convo .

Did anyone ever get done for riding their push bike hands free I wonder,

[lostandfound]

In an effort to change the subject back to hands free, instead of petty arguments with "IM lostandfound" ( who maaaaay have had a few shandies this afternoon) who knows Im a bell endio cos other people on the interweb say I am cos of what i may drive.

You chose to use "Bell end". Don't call other people that if you can't take being called one yourself, you precious flower.

And, yes, Tesla fan boys are a breed apart on the Web - ask any motoring journalist who has dared to point out the ways in which they are crap.

[hungrypunt]

You chose to use "Bell end". Don't call other people that if you can't take being called one yourself, you precious flower.

And, yes, Tesla fan boys are a breed apart on the Web - ask any motoring journalist who has dared to point out the ways in which they are crap.

ask any motoring journalist .

baaaaaaaa,
I was gonna say "seagulls follow the trawler because they think Sardines will be thrown to the sea " ha ha  but heres a snip that describes your behaviour.
keep yakking to yourself bud cos you make no sense to me, so Ill just ignore you from now on, my point is made and the thread is being crammed full of crap, mainly yours.



Hidden Image/Members Only

Can anyone remind me how to put bell ends someone on ignore please

[Xtro]

I had a Tesla model S, nutty fast, but safe as houses and a complete dream to drive...........
..... But the model S was the dogs ! ony 1 gripe is it wont drive itself after 90mph 
.....

Clearly you are speaking about the Tesla model S in the past tense.

........ Mines an X but id have a model 3 any day but I ike a big car........

I guess that's your current car.   

That appears clear to me.

[lostandfound]

baaaaaaaa,
I was gonna say "seagulls follow the trawler because they think Sardines will be thrown to the sea " ha ha  but heres a snip that describes your behaviour.
keep yakking to yourself bud cos you make no sense to me, so Ill just ignore you from now on, my point is made and the thread is being crammed full of crap, mainly yours.



Hidden Image/Members Only

Can anyone remind me how to put bell ends someone on ignore please

 

I pointed out your claim that a Model 3 can be bought brand new for less than £30K is without foundation and you have no reliable source for such nonsense.

Since then it is you who have repeatedly posted little more than childish insults.

[lostandfound]

Hilarious / dangerous - this is what happens when your self driving capability is based upon cameras alone, and developed by a company that pushes the envelope, and relies upon customers to debug the software.

External Link/Members Only

The car - Tesla Model 3 performance, was on a motorway, in heavy rain, approaching a bridge - not using full self driving, just using adaptive cruise - and the car suddenly did an emergency stop, scaring the shit out of the driver and his passenger.

[hungrypunt]

Hey sheep, hows you ? nice to see you still stalking Tesla. Cameras alone ???? silly boy lol...do some research. Sure he bnned Lidar but it isnt just cameras.
Funny how the guy didnt post his on board cams didnt have any footage.

buuuuuuuuut. get ready as Im about to make you look stupid again....


Phantom braking can happen with all cars that have cruise control with prdeictive or detection lidar/radar/or cams. its just tesla is the most well known most advanced company. Seems to me the guy is using Tesla for Youtube sensationalism hits so idiots follow his channel. He also owns a supercar showroom in London, erm, hello Teslas denting your sales maybe . The whole thing stinks, but you cant see that.
External Link/Members Only
External Link/Members Only

And you do know the car behind always has to keep a safe distance for emergency stopping if the car on front has to slam on to maybe save a childs life ? , really how old are you 12 ? whats sort of fool relies on a cars cameras to drive when visibility is poor !

You seem to think Im some Tesla warrior, i couldnt give a shit, I like the car......bought it , If i find something what I think is better Ill change to that (unlikely)

I dont know what your agenda is, hating it but researching / stalking it but let your jealousy go man, its been a week since I made you look a nob ed last time, and now again today  try go and visit a WG, see if she can drain your anger

[lostandfound]

Hey sheep, hows you ? nice to see you still stalking Tesla. Cameras alone ???? silly boy lol...do some research. Sure he bnned Lidar but it isnt just cameras.
Funny how the guy didnt post his on board cams didnt have any footage.

buuuuuuuuut. get ready as Im about to make you look stupid again....


Phantom braking can happen with all cars that have cruise control with prdeictive or detection lidar/radar/or cams. its just tesla is the most well known most advanced company. Seems to me the guy is using Tesla for Youtube sensationalism hits so idiots follow his channel. He also owns a supercar showroom in London, erm, hello Teslas denting your sales maybe . The whole thing stinks, but you cant see that.
External Link/Members Only
External Link/Members Only

And you do know the car behind always has to keep a safe distance for emergency stopping if the car on front has to slam on to maybe save a childs life ? , really how old are you 12 ? whats sort of fool relies on a cars cameras to drive when visibility is poor !

You seem to think Im some Tesla warrior, i couldnt give a shit, I like the car......bought it , If i find something what I think is better Ill change to that (unlikely)

I dont know what your agenda is, hating it but researching / stalking it but let your jealousy go man, its been a week since I made you look a nob ed last time, and now again today  try go and visit a WG, see if she can drain your anger

I thought you had me on ignore? So you say you're not a Tesla fanboy, and yet a post critical of them has you biting and spewing childish insults again? Pull the other one. 

Tesla's autonomy day 2019 was nearly four hours of them banging on about how their self driving capability is based upon analysis of camera images captured from "the fleet" ie Big Brother Tesla watching their owners drive their cars around. Tesla describe this upload of data from their owner's vehicles as a unique advantage.

Tesla have long pushed the envelope as regards safety in aspects of their cars. Mobileye - the industry leader on self driving - partnered with Tesla for several years but withdrew from the partnership because they considered Tesla to be reckless.

I have posted in favour of Tesla multiple times in Off Topic, but the cult that has grown up around Tesla and the hysterical response to any criticism of Tesla is obnoxious, as is the uncritical deification of Elon Musk - for example -

The Industry is 4 years behind Tesla, and by the time they crack his algorithms and code, he will be another 4 years in front.

[Xtro]

Let's not forget Tesla truck’s ‘unbreakable’ windows - External Link/Members Only      

[winkywanky]

Only a pedo would be so stupid  .

[hungrypunt]

I thought you had me on ignore? So you say you're not a Tesla fanboy, and yet a post critical of them has you biting and spewing childish insults again? Pull the other one. 

Tesla's autonomy day 2019 was nearly four hours of them banging on about how their self driving capability is based upon analysis of camera images captured from "the fleet" ie Big Brother Tesla watching their owners drive their cars around. Tesla describe this upload of data from their owner's vehicles as a unique advantage.

Tesla have long pushed the envelope as regards safety in aspects of their cars. Mobileye - the industry leader on self driving - partnered with Tesla for several years but withdrew from the partnership because they considered Tesla to be reckless.

I have posted in favour of Tesla multiple times in Off Topic, but the cult that has grown up around Tesla and the hysterical response to any criticism of Tesla is obnoxious, as is the uncritical deification of Elon Musk - for example -

couldnt find out how to ignore you , but its entertainment at best

keep going, am loving it I wouldnt know what you post where as I dont stalk you, I just replied to you calling me out for being a bullshitter simple, sonce then its turned childish...A WEEK later you posted that shite lol.
You know far more than me about tesla(googling probably) , so crack on bud slagging Tesla bud, all I care about is me not being called a bullshitter by a keyboard hero who doesnt even know me, oh and my tesla shares 

I think your username is quite apt.

[hungrypunt]

Let's not forget Tesla truck’s ‘unbreakable’ windows - External Link/Members Only      

yeah, nice own goal that was , he was probably on the weed that night

[Squire Haggard]

Looks like Tesla have some competition. 

External Link/Members Only

[hungrypunt]

Looks like Tesla have some competition. 

External Link/Members Only

Give my right arm if that tesla version makes a profit ??? remember the "hummer" and yeah, not only that but the new "lucid air" that has been founded by some of the original Tesla big wigs, looks good. That said, tis easy to produce a few for testing, mass market and own brand are a big step.

Elon was lucky, right place right time, "right pot head "