Author Topic: These pieces of scum  (Read 7183 times)

Offline Dani

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I don’t understand how they got manslaughter. They obviously intended to kill him   If they didn’t they would’ve stopped the car. They knew dragging him along would likely end up in death but did it anyway. To me that’s murder not manslaughter. Manslaughter is hitting him with the car in the spur of the moment. Not dragging him along a road at speed

Offline winkywanky

I don’t understand how they got manslaughter. They obviously intended to kill him   If they didn’t they would’ve stopped the car. They knew dragging him along would likely end up in death but did it anyway. To me that’s murder not manslaughter. Manslaughter is hitting him with the car in the spur of the moment. Not dragging him along a road at speed


Sadly, I think intent is hard to prove in a Court of Law. And that's required for a Murder charge to stick I think?

If the judge has the balls though, these little shits could go down for a long, long time. I'm not sure whether he can recommend a minimum tariff? Hopefully so.

Offline NIK

Is that a bit of a confession Nik? :unknown:

You are the kind of libtard sympathiser I am referring to.

Online daviemac

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I don’t understand how they got manslaughter. They obviously intended to kill him   If they didn’t they would’ve stopped the car. They knew dragging him along would likely end up in death but did it anyway. To me that’s murder not manslaughter. Manslaughter is hitting him with the car in the spur of the moment. Not dragging him along a road at speed
Like WW said, intent is quite difficult to prove, it would have to be proved, beyond doubt, that they knew he was caught up in the tow rope and carried on with the intention of killing him and not just the intention to get away. In any case the maximum sentence for manslaughter is life imprisonment. Whether or not they get that is a different matter.

Offline Bogof60

I have only once  in my life been known to engage reverse gear when met with confrontation.

But

This protected ethnic minority has made me reconsider.
I will never go up against these people unless armed and preferably with a firearm aka Farmer Martin.

The once was with a member of this ethnic minority.
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Offline mega

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Sadly, I think intent is hard to prove in a Court of Law. And that's required for a Murder charge to stick I think?

If the judge has the balls though, these little shits could go down for a long, long time. I'm not sure whether he can recommend a minimum tariff? Hopefully so.

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You can probably work out what they'll get!
Banned reason: No contribution to site and not a punter, touting her own business
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Offline sub_marine

There was a case in US&A about 20 years ago where 3 KKK members dragged a black guy for 3 miles which killed him, 2 of those guys got death sentance.

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Since this UK case is all being funded by legal aid, you know whatever sentance the judge passes it will be appealed over and over, and eventually some snowflake judge will let them out early

Offline Belgarion

There are lots of people in this country who believe the thieving, conning, freeloading ‘travellers’ enrich our culture.
I fully expect we have such people on here.  :rolleyes:

Any evidence to support this view? Nice to see you tarnish all travellers with one brush.

You must hate Tyson Fury

Offline mh

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One of the scum in this case apparently said he was a thief "like his father and grandfather before him" like it was an honoured profession. Fucking hell.

Offline Matrix

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They should make them watch Scum and tell them its a documentary.

Offline David1970

You are the kind of libtard sympathiser I am referring to.

Nik did you get thrown out of Wetherspoons early last night?

Offline NIK

Nik did you get thrown out of Wetherspoons early last night?

Don’t give up the day job.  :sarcastic:

Offline David1970

Don’t give up the day job.  :sarcastic:

Don’t plan to give up my job been working hard :hi:
What have you been doing all day, bookies, shouting at the radio again or an afternoon in Wetherspoons?

Offline munterhunter

A quick check reveals they could be given Life  :thumbsup:.

I for one will be looking out for the sentences in this sorry tale.
To be convicted of murder they have to prove intent. Nice to think some bewigged lawyer paid on legal aid decided to argue the point and get a manslaughter conviction.
Lets hope they do get life then when they are released it will be on a life license where they can be locked up without having to go to court for the slightest offence!

Offline munterhunter

One of the scum in this case apparently said he was a thief "like his father and grandfather before him" like it was an honoured profession. Fucking hell.
Nice to see they are keeping up the family tradition innit

Offline NIK

Don’t plan to give up my job been working hard :hi:
What have you been doing all day, bookies, shouting at the radio again or an afternoon in Wetherspoons?

You spend more time on here than I do.
I was only thinking recently there are an awful lot of members who are ‘working’ from home judging by the time they spend here.
And I thought it was just James 999.  :rolleyes:

Offline David1970

You spend more time on here than I do.

That’s because you spend your time shouting at the radio, the bookies and Wetherspoons.  :hi:

Offline NIK

That’s because you spend your time shouting at the radio, the bookies and Wetherspoons.  :hi:

Isn't it strange who those that claim to be liberal, live and let live, welcome the illegal immigrants, etc, are the readiest to dish out the insults.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 11:00:37 am by NIK »

Offline David1970

There are lots of people in this country who believe the thieving, conning, freeloading ‘travellers’ enrich our culture.
I fully expect we have such people on here.  :rolleyes:

This would be you Nik saying this could it?

Online Squire Haggard

42 years in total for these pieces of shit.

''The three teenager killers of PC Andrew Harper were today sentenced to a total of 42 years for a crime' very close to murder' after the hero's widow broke down in tears while reading her heart-breaking victim impact statement to the Old Bailey.

Jessie Cole and Albert Bowers, both 18, each received 13 years in prison for manslaughter while getaway driver Henry Long, 19, was given 16 years for the same charge after a 25 per cent discount because of his guilty plea. 

The judge, Mr Justice Edis, said: 'Manslaughter cases range greatly in seriousness. Sometimes death may be caused by an act of gross carelessness, sometimes it is very close to a case of murder in its seriousness. That is so, here.'

He described the killers as 'young, unintelligent but professional criminals' and rejected claims by defence barristers' that the trio had showed any remorse.''

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Offline timsussex

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16 years for the driver and 13 for the others

I suppose the judge did his best given the manslaughter verdict

surely what we need is a new offence, or perhaps an automatic doubling of the sentence, if a police officer is killed or injured in during a crime.


Offline David1970

16 years for the driver and 13 for the others

I suppose the judge did his best given the manslaughter verdict

surely what we need is a new offence, or perhaps an automatic doubling of the sentence, if a police officer is killed or injured in during a crime.

Is the maximum sentences for manslaughter life imprisonment (25 years but they only serve an third of it in jail I believe)
I assume the judge had to review some kind of home and social report written by social workers, showing it was not their fault but societies fault, before he passed sentence.

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« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 02:25:36 pm by David1970 »

Online daviemac

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Is the maximum sentences for manslaughter life imprisonment (25 years but they only serve an third of it in jail I believe)
I assume the judge had to review some kind of home and social report written by social workers, showing it was not their fault but societies fault, before he passed sentence.

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The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life imprisonment, It's very rare it's given though.

As an aside a life sentence has various forms ranging from whole life terms, (never released) to whatever term of imprisonment the judge decides as a minimum.  With the latter even when released on licence the licence never expires, they can be recalled at any time. Unlike the 16 year term here, he'll probably serve 8 then released on licence and that will expire after the 16 years.

Offline David1970

The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life imprisonment, It's very rare it's given though.

As an aside a life sentence has various forms ranging from whole life terms, (never released) to whatever term of imprisonment the judge decides as a minimum.  With the latter even when released on licence the licence never expires, they can be recalled at any time. Unlike the 16 year term here, he'll probably serve 8 then released on licence and that will expire after the 16 years.

Thanks for the info Davie.

Online daviemac

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Thanks for the info Davie.
No probs.

I think in any case the judge has to be seen to be fair, if the sentence is thought to be too harsh the offender can appeal, if too lenient the CPS can appeal. As much as we'd like it to be longer, considering the typical sentence for manslaughter is between 2 and 10 years, the judge has done about a much as he could. 

Offline timsussex

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Unless there is a huge change in their attitude I cant see them getting out in minimum time.

Anyone care to take bets on them reoffending ?

Online WARSZAWA16

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Anyone care to take bets on them reoffending ?
Reoffending? That, in racing parlance, is "a dot on the card".

Offline winkywanky

The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life imprisonment, It's very rare it's given though.

As an aside a life sentence has various forms ranging from whole life terms, (never released) to whatever term of imprisonment the judge decides as a minimum.  With the latter even when released on licence the licence never expires, they can be recalled at any time. Unlike the 16 year term here, he'll probably serve 8 then released on licence and that will expire after the 16 years.


I have every hope this sentence will be appealed. And rightly so. As far as I can see this only avoided being considered as murder by a whisker, so to give the main perpetrator only 16yrs (he'll likely be out in eight) seems a fucking joke.

25% discount for pleading guilty?  :unknown: What about putting it back on again for the total lack of remorse, and laughing to the camera as he was loaded into the back of the police van? Pleading guilty means jackshit, his lawyer will have simply told him he'll get a lesser sentence if he pleads as such, it was a foregone conclusion that he would be found guilty, so it's almost meaningless.

The guy (and his mates) are the scum of the earth, lying, cheating, robbing violent gypos who don't give a flying fuck about anyone else in society, and just laugh in the face of authority and justice.

They are utter filth and should be out away for as long as possible  :thumbsdown:.

Offline willie loman

In some countries, exacerbating factors will lead to an increase in sentence, eg when you had a duty of care etc, for me its the inhuman cruelty of this case that is the exacerbating aspect, but as others have pointed out the judge was limited in what he could do.

Offline learco

why are thede gypo types so proctected in the UK?
They decide to live on tne margins of society not paying tax etc. etc. yet when they need a hospital they soon make use of it for example.

Online Doc Holliday

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25% discount for pleading guilty?  :unknown: What about putting it back on again for the total lack of remorse,

Lack of remorse is taken into account and does increase the sentence but a guilty always means a reduction in sentence.

Offline scutty brown

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Lack of remorse is taken into account and does increase the sentence but a guilty always means a reduction in sentence.

Not only a reduction in sentence, but any time served on prison remand between pleading guilty and going to trial counts double in terms of time served. So if he was remanded in custody a year ago and immediately pleaded guilty, the year would be treated a having already served two years of his sentence - and then he gets a third off whats left

Offline willie loman

Not only a reduction in sentence, but any time served on prison remand between pleading guilty and going to trial counts double in terms of time served. So if he was remanded in custody a year ago and immediately pleaded guilty, the year would be treated a having already served two years of his sentence - and then he gets a third off whats left

probably seemed a good idea at the time

Online Doc Holliday

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Not only a reduction in sentence, but any time served on prison remand between pleading guilty and going to trial counts double in terms of time served. So if he was remanded in custody a year ago and immediately pleaded guilty, the year would be treated a having already served two years of his sentence - and then he gets a third off whats left

I never knew that about the doubling. Thanks.

Offline winkywanky

Lack of remorse is taken into account and does increase the sentence but a guilty always means a reduction in sentence.


I know, I'm venting Doc  :P  ;).

Fuckers like these get my goat, and if I feel that there's any way the sentence could have been harsher, I'm all over it like a rash  :rolleyes:.

Anyway, what happened to your avatar?

Offline scutty brown

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probably seemed a good idea at the time

What it means in some cases is that all of a gang will plead guilty except for one............that single not guilty will delay the case and so rack up extra double time for the rest. The guy pleading not guilty is either threatened into it,  or paid off to do the extra time

Offline Adoniron

The judge clearly thought they should have been convicted of murder, hence the long sentences.

Offline Adoniron

The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life imprisonment, It's very rare it's given though.

As an aside a life sentence has various forms ranging from whole life terms, (never released) to whatever term of imprisonment the judge decides as a minimum.  With the latter even when released on licence the licence never expires, they can be recalled at any time. Unlike the 16 year term here, he'll probably serve 8 then released on licence and that will expire after the 16 years.

The judge said they would each serve two thirds of the sentence.

Online Doc Holliday

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Anyway, what happened to your avatar?


As you can see, sadly the mask did not work.

Offline winkywanky


As you can see, sadly the mask did not work.


Doc, have you seriously had Covid-19?

(Or are you kidding me and I'm being a numpty for not realising?)

Online daviemac

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I have every hope this sentence will be appealed. And rightly so. As far as I can see this only avoided being considered as murder by a whisker, so to give the main perpetrator only 16yrs (he'll likely be out in eight) seems a fucking joke.
With it being above the typical sentence for manslaughter I don't think the CPS will appeal.  It's a fine balancing act for judges, there's a case with a brothel keeper, she appealed her 2 1/2 year sentence and got it reduced to 12 months suspended. Had the judge given her 12 months inside to start with the chances are the appeal would've failed.

Offline winkywanky

We shall see. This case has got me very upset for various reasons, not least of which has been the appalling attitude of these lowlifes and complete lack of remorse from the outset.

Offline advent2016

Hopefully they will be split up and sent to different prisons a long way from their friends and family.

The best outcome is that they are shunned by other prisoners or they be segregated if they cause trouble.

Some segregation cells have only obscured window, toilet, wash basin, power point, a concrete slab with a mattress, artificial light, and an alarm bell. More harsh segregation has only a mattress on floor and toilet. Neither of these are very pleasant compared to the Ritz type cells.


Online daviemac

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We shall see. This case has got me very upset for various reasons, not least of which has been the appalling attitude of these lowlifes and complete lack of remorse from the outset.
Don't forget an appeal by either side can result in a sentence being increased or decreased, so if the CPS do appeal it could result in a lesser sentence. Like you say though we will have to wait and see.

Offline winkywanky

Don't forget an appeal by either side can result in a sentence being increased or decreased, so if the CPS do appeal it could result in a lesser sentence. Like you say though we will have to wait and see.


Yes, I get that.

Offline advent2016

I am not a lawyer
AG  - Attorney General
SG - Solicitor General

The appellants/petitioners only have a fairly short time to lodge an appeal and it's at the discretion of an appeal judge or eventually the AG/SG to allow the appeal (although it's usually allowed). A failed (frivolous) appeal may actually add time to a sentence.

Equally the AG advised by the SG may consider a sentence unduly lenient although this looks unlikely unless other compelling evidence comes to light.

Offline munterhunter


I have every hope this sentence will be appealed. And rightly so. As far as I can see this only avoided being considered as murder by a whisker, so to give the main perpetrator only 16yrs (he'll likely be out in eight) seems a fucking joke.

25% discount for pleading guilty?  :unknown: What about putting it back on again for the total lack of remorse, and laughing to the camera as he was loaded into the back of the police van? Pleading guilty means jackshit, his lawyer will have simply told him he'll get a lesser sentence if he pleads as such, it was a foregone conclusion that he would be found guilty, so it's almost meaningless.

The guy (and his mates) are the scum of the earth, lying, cheating, robbing violent gypos who don't give a flying fuck about anyone else in society, and just laugh in the face of authority and justice.

They are utter filth and should be out away for as long as possible  :thumbsdown:.
Sadly it doesn't work like that. Sentencing used to be based on case law where judges had,subject to appeals, more discretion to give harsher or more lenient sentences.
Now sentencing guidelines written by the sentencing council. Its almost like a mathematical table. Offences are categorised according to seriousness and for every offence there is a STARTING POINT which is were the judge begins.
He/She can go up from the starting point for any aggravating factors like lack of remorse committing crimes against vuknerable people etc. And down from the starting point for any mitigating factors for example you get caught growing a canabis crop but its clear you are being forced to babysit the plants by a gang.
Every defendant gets "credit" for pleading guilty thereby saving time and money. It starts at one third for a plea of gulity reducing to 5 or 10% if you plead guilty at the start of the trial. The 3 scumbags would not have been given any credit because they didn't plead guilty.
I really feel for his wife and family but unless ot can be shown and proved there was jury tampering, a procedural fuck up or new evidence the verdict can't be challenged.
From what the detective who dealt with the scumbags said after the sentence I don't think it likely they will try to look for evidence to challenge the verdict.
Its possible the sentences may be appealed but all the appeal court will do is examine the trial judges sentencing remarks and decide whether he sentenced according to the guidelines.
For any increase or decrease there has to be evidence that the sentences were "manifestly" excessive or lenient.
Anyone sentenced to 4 years or less is entitled to be released after serving half their sentence and will be on license until the end of their sentence.
Since 2005 anyone serving over 4 years can apply gor parole after serving half their sentence if they are not considered suitable for release they can reapply every 13 months. They have to be released by the end of their sentence.
For MURDER the mandatory sentence is life. According to guidelines there are starting points according to seriousness of the offence and the judge will use these to set his/her recommendation which is the minimum term the offender has to serve befire applying for release on license. The license remains in force for the life of the offender but this can be amended subject to application and support of probation service and parole board.
The Home Secretary used to be able to alter the Judges recommendation but that all turned to ratshit when the presiding Home Secretary decided to impose a whole life tariff on Venebles and the other scumbag who murdered the young lad in Liverpool. The case went to the EU (I think Cherie Blair or someone from her chambers got involved in that). The court ruled that the tariff set by the trial judge could not be altered by a politician or official from the Home Office.
So these three oxygen thieves can apply for parole after serving half of their sentences I don't think they stand a realistic chance of release at the halfway point. They will, though, have to be released at some point. Their chance of rehabilitation and going "straight"? Well they are in their teens come from a long line of career criminals and are proud of it. They have to be released before they are too old to reoffend. The only plus point is that while they are in jail they won't be able to reproduce any budding prolific thieves! I suppose society has to be thankful for small mercies.
No I am not a lawyer but I did live with one for several years she worked for the CPS. One of our friends was a barrister and used to prosecute and defend. He was paid  fees set by the legal aid board which worked out at so much per day to prepare for trial and then a separate fee for each day he attended court.
He made more money defending by accepting several cases. Despite knowing in advance that maybe two would end up as a trial he'd tell the courts and legal aid system all would ho to trial. He'd be paid for trial prep on every case then go to court and say "I've advised my client to plead guilty" and get a pat on the back for saving the justice the expense of running a trial.
Looked remarkably like fraud to me...and he's now sitting as a judge on the Northern Circuit!
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the Judicial System does it?

Online Doc Holliday

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Doc, have you seriously had Covid-19?



No .... but that TB will be the death of me. ;) :D

Online Doc Holliday

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Now sentencing guidelines written by the sentencing council. Its almost like a mathematical table. Offences are categorised according to seriousness and for every offence there is a STARTING POINT which is were the judge begins.

Indeed .. you can almost do it yourself as an 'armchair' Judge, if you were to attend court and hear the whole case.