These pieces of scum

[willie loman]

What it means in some cases is that all of a gang will plead guilty except for one............that single not guilty will delay the case and so rack up extra double time for the rest. The guy pleading not guilty is either threatened into it,  or paid off to do the extra time

i see, didnt know that.

[wearegreat]

No .... but that TB will be the death of me.

I see what you did there. Very clever.

[Adoniron]

Indeed .. you can almost do it yourself as an 'armchair' Judge, if you were to attend court and hear the whole case.

The guidelines are intended to bring more consistency and fewer appeals but it is a bit like sentencing by numbers.

[scutty brown]

The guidelines are intended to bring more consistency and fewer appeals but it is a bit like sentencing by numbers.

but better than having a modern day Judge Jeffries going on a sentencing crusade

[timsussex]

but better than having a modern day Judge Jeffries going on a sentencing crusade

just the judge for these three !

[winkywanky]

No .... but that TB will be the death of me.

  

Had me worried there for a minute, you old teethpuller, you.

[Adoniron]

just the judge for these three !

They need Judge Dredd!

[Pedalwall]

Not only a reduction in sentence, but any time served on prison remand between pleading guilty and going to trial counts double in terms of time served. So if he was remanded in custody a year ago and immediately pleaded guilty, the year would be treated a having already served two years of his sentence - and then he gets a third off whats left

I've been around the justice system for a number of years and have never heard this. Don't believe that it's true unless you can provide a link. Time spent on remand is taken into account - although the court can order that it isn't if they think the person is taking the piss - on a day for day basis. So, in the case of the year quoted that would count as one year served and not two. What changed a few years ago was that time spent on remand where conditions have been applied - tag, curfew etc - may be considered against the time served of sentence but only as one day on remand for 0.5 day of sentence.

[Pedalwall]

I have every hope this sentence will be appealed. And rightly so. As far as I can see this only avoided being considered as murder by a whisker, so to give the main perpetrator only 16yrs (he'll likely be out in eight) seems a fucking joke.

25% discount for pleading guilty?  What about putting it back on again for the total lack of remorse, and laughing to the camera as he was loaded into the back of the police van? Pleading guilty means jackshit, his lawyer will have simply told him he'll get a lesser sentence if he pleads as such, it was a foregone conclusion that he would be found guilty, so it's almost meaningless.

The guy (and his mates) are the scum of the earth, lying, cheating, robbing violent gypos who don't give a flying fuck about anyone else in society, and just laugh in the face of authority and justice.

They are utter filth and should be out away for as long as possible  .

Reported today that there may be an appeal by the Attorney General against the length of sentence.

I don't think the driver (Long) was actually one of the two shown laughing as they were being put in the prison van. Rather his co-defendants. Not that it makes any difference to the way they were behaving. However, while I wouldn't want to give the impression of having sympathy for any of the 3 for what is an appalling and tragic crime, their 'bravado' for the cameras and friends and families who may have turned out is often very different to how they behave and feel behind the cell door.

Think the judge at the original sentencing said they will serve 2/3 of sentence before release rather than 1/2. Not sure if that means they can or can't apply for parole at halfway stage but very unlikely to be successful in light of these remarks. Even if released at 2/3 stage they will still be supervised in the community for the final 1/3 with possible conditions such as where they live, who they associate with etc. Any non-compliance - and you'd expect that unless there is considerable change in their behaviour there will be non-compliance - they can be recalled to prison to serve out the remainder of their sentence.

[winkywanky]

Reported today that there may be an appeal by the Attorney General against the length of sentence.

I don't think the driver (Long) was actually one of the two shown laughing as they were being put in the prison van. Rather his co-defendants. Not that it makes any difference to the way they were behaving. However, while I wouldn't want to give the impression of having sympathy for any of the 3 for what is an appalling and tragic crime, their 'bravado' for the cameras and friends and families who may have turned out is often very different to how they behave and feel behind the cell door.

Think the judge at the original sentencing said they will serve 2/3 of sentence before release rather than 1/2. Not sure if that means they can or can't apply for parole at halfway stage but very unlikely to be successful in light of these remarks. Even if released at 2/3 stage they will still be supervised in the community for the final 1/3 with possible conditions such as where they live, who they associate with etc. Any non-compliance - and you'd expect that unless there is considerable change in their behaviour there will be non-compliance - they can be recalled to prison to serve out the remainder of their sentence.

Hurrah!

I'm not naive enough to think this isn't at least in part because this is such a high profile case, ie to be seen to be getting as harsh a sentence as possible for these cunts.

I see what you say about non-compliance upon their release...the usual no-fixed-abode thing often attached to 'travellers', and also the likelihood that most if not all of their mates on the gypsy-site will as bad as they are.

[scutty brown]

Reported today that there may be an appeal by the Attorney General against the length of sentence.

I don't think the driver (Long) was actually one of the two shown laughing as they were being put in the prison van. Rather his co-defendants. Not that it makes any difference to the way they were behaving. However, while I wouldn't want to give the impression of having sympathy for any of the 3 for what is an appalling and tragic crime, their 'bravado' for the cameras and friends and families who may have turned out is often very different to how they behave and feel behind the cell door.

Think the judge at the original sentencing said they will serve 2/3 of sentence before release rather than 1/2. Not sure if that means they can or can't apply for parole at halfway stage but very unlikely to be successful in light of these remarks. Even if released at 2/3 stage they will still be supervised in the community for the final 1/3 with possible conditions such as where they live, who they associate with etc. Any non-compliance - and you'd expect that unless there is considerable change in their behaviour there will be non-compliance - they can be recalled to prison to serve out the remainder of their sentence.

"Supervision in the community" for a bunch of Irish Tinkers, how do  you think that's going to work? They'll vanish into their band of roving caravan dwelling thieves, may even disappear to Ireland. How do you supervise members of a population group who are migratory and self-isolating? First probation officer or copper who tries to walk on a site to find them is going to get thumped or worse

[scutty brown]

I've been around the justice system for a number of years and have never heard this. Don't believe that it's true unless you can provide a link. Time spent on remand is taken into account - although the court can order that it isn't if they think the person is taking the piss - on a day for day basis. So, in the case of the year quoted that would count as one year served and not two. What changed a few years ago was that time spent on remand where conditions have been applied - tag, curfew etc - may be considered against the time served of sentence but only as one day on remand for 0.5 day of sentence.

Came straight from a judges mouth

[ratedj]

I've been around the justice system for a number of years and have never heard this. Don't believe that it's true unless you can provide a link. Time spent on remand is taken into account - although the court can order that it isn't if they think the person is taking the piss - on a day for day basis. So, in the case of the year quoted that would count as one year served and not two. What changed a few years ago was that time spent on remand where conditions have been applied - tag, curfew etc - may be considered against the time served of sentence but only as one day on remand for 0.5 day of sentence.

This has also been my understanding.

[Pedalwall]

Came straight from a judges mouth

Was that a judge from X Factor or Strictly?!!

Think this needs some context Scutty. If the judge in the trial or a judge setting legal precedent etc or just someone you happen to know or exchanged pleasantries with in a massage parlour. Unless this was a judge conversant in such matters then I'll go on the information from prison guidelines and say that it isn't the case.

[Pedalwall]

"Supervision in the community" for a bunch of Irish Tinkers, how do  you think that's going to work? They'll vanish into their band of roving caravan dwelling thieves, may even disappear to Ireland. How do you supervise members of a population group who are migratory and self-isolating? First probation officer or copper who tries to walk on a site to find them is going to get thumped or worse

You rightly hold other posters and punters to task for generalisations yet you're happy to indulge in this thread and another one your views about Gypsies and Travellers. I've worked with a few over the years and this isn't my experience.

[scutty brown]

You rightly hold other posters and punters to task for generalisations yet you're happy to indulge in this thread and another one your views about Gypsies and Travellers. I've worked with a few over the years and this isn't my experience.

Then luckily for you, you have an almost unique experience. Few would agree with you.

[george r]

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scum should have got 30 yrs ..

[Adoniron]

I'll be amazed if their appeals are successful. They were lucky to get manslaughter and should quit while they're ahead.

[winkywanky]

Am I right in thinking that if they appeal, the appeal Judge can actually increase their sentence?

That would be an appropriate outcome for these useless wastes of space.

[Corus Boy]

Am I right in thinking that if they appeal, the appeal Judge can actually increase their sentence?

That would be an appropriate outcome for these useless wastes of space.

That would be a very interesting result.

If only costs could be awarded against them as well, but I suspect that they will be getting Legal Aid.

Throw in the Proceeds of Crime and Civil Recovery Act if they had any assets would also be a great result.

[GingerNuts]

Am I right in thinking that if they appeal, the appeal Judge can actually increase their sentence?

That would be an appropriate outcome for these useless wastes of space.

Seemingly they've appealed against conviction and sentence so their sentence could be increased or decreased but it won't be unless the Court of Appeal consider it manifestly wrong.

[winkywanky]

That would be a very interesting result.

If only costs could be awarded against them as well, but I suspect that they will be getting Legal Aid.

Throw in the Proceeds of Crime and Civil Recovery Act if they had any assets would also be a great result.

Of course they will be, they almost certainly come from a 'community' which has contributed absolutely fuck all to society, apart from nicking scrap metal, terrorising locals, their kids smash up the local school and when they leave town it looks like a bomb landed.

Any 'assets' they have will be untraceable apart from a ropey and smelly caravan.

[winkywanky]

Seemingly they've appealed against conviction and sentence so their sentence could be increased or decreased but it won't be unless the Court of Appeal consider it manifestly wrong.

We live in hope.

[daviemac]

Seemingly they've appealed against conviction and sentence so their sentence could be increased or decreased but it won't be unless the Court of Appeal consider it manifestly wrong.

They haven't appealed against anything yet, they've launched an application for leave to appeal. If that application gets turned down there is no appeal, if the application is successful then the actual appeal process starts.

[GingerNuts]

We live in hope.

It's a high hurdle to cross. A lenient or harsh sentence is unlikely to change the result one way or the other. The sentence has to be unduly lenient or unduly harsh.

[winkywanky]

I thought it was unduly lenient, but of course I'm not a Judge. These are my own personal opinions.

Unless the Judge is a UKP member (which perhaps isn't as as unlikely as we might think) then the appeal may not change anything.

[myothernameis]

Seemingly they've appealed against conviction and sentence so their sentence could be increased or decreased but it won't be unless the Court of Appeal consider it manifestly wrong.

I think there appeal should go ahead, but with a twist, they now get told, there will be a new trial, and all three will now be charged with murder

[daviemac]

I think there appeal should go ahead, but with a twist, they now get told, there will be a new trial, and all three will now be charged with murder

That sounds a good plan, charge them with murder, they get found not guilty and walk free.    if there'd been any chance of a murder conviction they would've been charged with it first time round.

They could've been given life sentences at the time but that would probably have made any appeal easier.

[advent2016]

An appeal might conclude that one or more of the convictions was unsafe and the appeal judges could even release one or more of them.

A recent case in the news where a drug dealer gave his girlfriend lethal  class-A drugs and filmed her die and didn't call for any help and released upon appeal due to a point of law. Amazingly he wasn't prosecuted for supply of the drugs as well as the manslaughter.

Current laws seem too biased in favour of criminals.

Although I don't like treating civilians differently to members of society I think a law that  harm/causing death to police officers, medical staff even armed forces should have a higher tariff.

[GingerNuts]

An appeal might conclude that one or more of the convictions was unsafe and the appeal judges could even release one or more of them.

A recent case in the news where a drug dealer gave his girlfriend lethal  class-A drugs and filmed her die and didn't call for any help and released upon appeal due to a point of law. Amazingly he wasn't prosecuted for supply of the drugs as well as the manslaughter.

Current laws seem too biased in favour of criminals.

Although I don't like treating civilians differently to members of society I think a law that  harm/causing death to police officers, medical staff even armed forces should have a higher tariff.

Ceon Broughton?

He was sentenced to a total of eight and a half years' imprisonment; seven years for the manslaughter, thirteen additional months for the drugs offences, and five more on activation of part of a suspended sentence for possession of two knives.

[winkywanky]

Yes, his drug conviction remains.

IMO a shame that the manslaughter charge has now been dropped, clearly he could have done a lot more to try to help her (but couldn't be bothered because he was a piece of shit lowlife) but it seems that technically any such attempt to save her may not have worked. Therefore the manslaughter charge was dropped?

I think that's appalling, and the girl's parents and family must be going through even more hell as a result of this.

I was going to say that at least the public know what a piece of shit he is after what happened, but sadly in the eyes of many young girls, he'll be seen as a bit of a hero and will have no trouble finding similar gfs in future. Funny how notoriety is seen as such an asset by so many these days.

[george r]

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at last a decent judge 

[winkywanky]

Yes, I saw that one earlier. He'll be 80-ish if and when he ever gets out  .

[winkywanky]

Judge Mr Justice Jeremy Baker ordered that Abedi serve 24 life sentences and said he would spend at least 55 years in prison before he could even be considered for parole.

Family members gasped as the sentence – a record for a determinate prison term – was handed down for Abedi’s role in the largest murder case in English legal history.

Abedi, born and raised in Manchester, was accused of showing “contempt” to the families of those he and his suicide bomber brother Salman Abedi killed more than three years earlier by not coming into the dock.

He was again absent as the sentence was handed down, the judge ordering a copy of his remarks to be sent to the cells.

I'd like to think his attitude played at least some part in the sentence, but I have no idea.

Hopefully it'll also send out a message to others who may be considering perpetrating this type of atrocity.

This guy's probably wishing he was the one with the bomb on his back rather than his brother. Banged up for 55 yrs. Back of the net.

[scutty brown]

Bowers and Cole have launched appeals against conviction
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Could backfire as if the appeals are turned down then the Crown could launch an appeal over an unduly lenient sentence without the risk of them getting released

[timsussex]

They weren't driving and of course in the mile they dragged the PC they never looked back to see if anyone (like the other cop) was chasing them.
 or so their legal aid brief will argue at our expense no doubt

[wearegreat]

Judge Mr Justice Jeremy Baker ordered that Abedi serve 24 life sentences and said he would spend at least 55 years in prison before he could even be considered for parole.

Family members gasped as the sentence – a record for a determinate prison term – was handed down for Abedi’s role in the largest murder case in English legal history.

Abedi, born and raised in Manchester, was accused of showing “contempt” to the families of those he and his suicide bomber brother Salman Abedi killed more than three years earlier by not coming into the dock.

He was again absent as the sentence was handed down, the judge ordering a copy of his remarks to be sent to the cells.

I'd like to think his attitude played at least some part in the sentence, but I have no idea.

Hopefully it'll also send out a message to others who may be considering perpetrating this type of atrocity.

This guy's probably wishing he was the one with the bomb on his back rather than his brother. Banged up for 55 yrs. Back of the net.

55 years of taxpayers money to keep this vile scum in prison. A huge expense that we all (as taxpayers) have to chip in for.
A .25ACP bullet at the base of his skull would be much more suitable for this twat. And a damn sight cheaper for the rest of us. And send a bill for the cost of the bullet to his scumbag family.

[advent2016]

55 years in solitary confinement shunned  by everyone is much better than a bullet IMO.

[Corus Boy]

55 years?

I see some sot of Human Rights issues here from the do gooders?

Not from me though.

[winkywanky]

55 years of taxpayers money to keep this vile scum in prison. A huge expense that we all (as taxpayers) have to chip in for.
A .25ACP bullet at the base of his skull would be much more suitable for this twat. And a damn sight cheaper for the rest of us. And send a bill for the cost of the bullet to his scumbag family.

We don't do that in this country. I'm glad we don't. I totally understand your sentiment, this is a vile, appalling creature we're talking about here.

But take solace in the fact that he'll be wishing he were dead, and that he'd been the one wearing the bomb and not his POS brother.

His real life is over, for as far as his eye can see it's a sea of shit in front of him, to be swum every day. And it does send out a potent signal to others.

For once, this is a sentence from a high profile case that actually satisfies me personally.

[dubs]

55 years in solitary confinement shunned  by everyone is much better than a bullet IMO.

A bullet would just make him a martyr In the eyes of similar minded cunts.

[jlike]

I heard a similar story about them setting up on a nice moorland recreation area, and were not very friendly to locals who wished to carry on walking their dogs, jogging and exercising. Cue local farmers fertilising the land with fresh manure, and they moved on.

This was in the late 70's or early 80's, not far from me. I believe it was pig slurry that was spread around them, they did not stay long after that.

[george r]

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lets hope they get another ten yrs at least but i doubt it..

[winkywanky]

I heard a similar story about them setting up on a nice moorland recreation area, and were not very friendly to locals who wished to carry on walking their dogs, jogging and exercising. Cue local farmers fertilising the land with fresh manure, and they moved on.

This was in the late 70's or early 80's, not far from me. I believe it was pig slurry that was spread around them, they did not stay long after that.

Yes, the irony is that they'll turn up on commonland and then act as if they own it. They'll do this in an aggressive manner. There's a place not far from me, where the local council have even changed the course of a footpath to appease them. God help you if you inadvertently stray off the path while looking at your OS Map, you'll be shouted at, threatened and have their dogs chasing after you.

I inadvertently stumbled across their forest idyll on my mountainbike and was subject to all of the above. I did manage to administer a good kick to a couple of the dogs as they snapped at my heels as I rode away, which I guess is a bit of a shame because I'd much rather it was the scumbag owners, but I'm not having my socks shredded by their trained attack-hounds.

I do like the idea of farmers spreading a load of shit around them that smells even worse than they do  .

[myothernameis]

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lets hope they get another ten yrs at least but i doubt it..

There own appeal is likely to be heard at the same time, as this sentence review

[daviemac]

There own appeal is likely to be heard at the same time, as this sentence review

If there's any justice in this world their application for leave to appeal will be denied so it won't get as far as them appealing their convictions and their sentences can be reviewed and upped to life.

[winkywanky]

Sadly, I don't think that's an option because none of them were 21 at the time of the offence davie?

But it would somewhat restore my faith in the British Justice system if they could be given sentences at or near the maximum allowable for manslaughter. I think this case justifies that.

[daviemac]

Sadly, I don't think that's an option because none of them were 21 at the time of the offence davie?

But it would somewhat restore my faith in the British Justice system if they could be given sentences at or near the maximum allowable for manslaughter. I think this case justifies that.

They were all above the age of majority, the maximum sentence is life. 

[winkywanky]

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My apologies, I was confusing the available sentencing with that of Murder.

[daviemac]

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My apologies, I was confusing the available sentencing with that of Murder.

No probs, the main difference between life and a fixed term sentence is, as in this case after 16 years, regardless of how long is served in prison,  the driver has served his sentence. If he got life he may be required to serve a minimum term but even after his release the life sentence never goes away, he serves it until he dies.