Author Topic: Off Topic was bought back because of lack of punting. Whats your views  (Read 42118 times)

Offline Beamer

Are you denying youve taken active participant in these topics  :unknown: 
Tho as theyve been deleted you probably could deny all involvement if you wanted.
I didnt participate much but i do distinctly remember reading some where there was a lot of back and forth between you and KN , like where did you get that
quote your so fond of regurjitating if it wasnt from being in the thick of it ?
im not critiscising you for taking part in the debate , im just saying i think its a bit naff taking part and being instrumental in escalating these topics to x pages and
then in the next breath complaining about them.  As far as i can recall you were as good a contributor as anyone  :thumbsup:

There are a number of "unnecessary" and facetious comments made by KN that I now find the easiest way is to ignore it like a buzzing fly and hope it will go away.

Offline Doc Holliday

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I gets to be like the Monty Python "what did the Romans ever do for us" sketch on here at times.    :sarcastic:

 :D

In view of new registrations being opened again soon  External Link/Members Only

Offline AnthG

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I have tried to understand what you are saying in many of your posts but it is not an easy task.

It was said as sarcastic wit as already a list of people are challenging the outcome of the vote due to the same arguments that applied to the proposed second Brexit vote.

I appreciate my sarcastic wit is nowhere near as good as other posters in offtopic though.

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Offline smiths

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So I have had a long think about it and I see this as 2 things, the work mods/admin might have to do if O/T was unrestricted, and the fact its not up to me what other posters post within the law.

I think it right those mods/admin who would have to do the work decide along with Head 1 obviously on what option suits them. And I will support whatever decision they came to. As it is I cant vote on this for the above reasons, happy to be accused of having splinters up my arse from the fench I am sitting on. :lol:

So if O/T stays in 1 form or other great, if it doesn't such is life, I posted on here for a long time without O/T no problem.

Offline CoverMyEyes

I gets to be like the Monty Python "what did the Romans ever do for us" sketch on here at times.    :sarcastic:
Well what DID the... nah, too easy.

Offline CoverMyEyes

And to confirm, I have voted but I'd be happy whichever way the decision is. IMO OT is a nice-to-have, but not the primary use of the site. It's not my forum, so whatever the rules are I will abide by them.

Offline AnthG

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The thing about Offtopic is its good to have a section of the board to discuss things that is hidden away from public eyes.

A good for example, the seeking arrangement topic I started.

There is a seeking arrangement thread, but it seems hidden and the post from Oldadmin said if you don't have access, you now never will. So having offtopic is a good substitute to discuss semi sensitive issues that you don't want anyone to find via google searching.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 06:53:30 pm by AnthG »
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Online scutty brown

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The thing about Offtopic is its good to have a section of the board to discuss things that is hidden away from public eyes.

A good for example, the seeking arrangement topic I started.

There is a seeking arrangement thread, but it seems hidden and the post from Oldadmin said if you don't have access, you now never will. So having offtopic is a good substitute to discuss semi sensitive issues that you don't want anyone to find via google searching.

But the reality is if you want a secure or members-only part of the forum then you're better off having a special defined  area - not misusing an offtopic area

Online scutty brown

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It was said as sarcastic wit as already a list of people are challenging the outcome of the vote due to the same arguments that applied to the proposed second Brexit vote.

I appreciate my sarcastic wit is nowhere near as good as other posters in offtopic though.

Don't conflate sarcasm with wit

Offline AnthG

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But the reality is if you want a secure or members-only part of the forum then you're better off having a special defined  area - not misusing an offtopic area

How is any topic misusing off-topic? A person can start any topic as long as it's not against the rules (unless I have totally misunderstood things)

If the topic is punting related it will be moved to the mainboard. If it's not it would remain, or the mods would delete it.

Don't conflate sarcasm with wit

Someone clearly woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning  :kissgirl:   < that's me trying to cheer you up....
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 07:12:24 pm by AnthG »
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Offline Marmalade

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I've kept out of this thread so far, as it's ultimately down to the website's owner(s) to determine what goes on. I cast a vote in favour of 'no restrictions' as I think self-policing is the best solution, given the following:

1. there are laws in existence about incitement to commit terrorism, racial hatred and all manner of other crimes. I think we all know, or at least sense, where the limits are

2. we are all grown-ups and am assuming most are male and well into middle age and beyond, so we're generally going to have a more measured attitude to things than a bunch of younger hotheads

3. I don't believe any of us here to convert others to a particular viewpoint, but that's not the point of it. Sometimes, we just want an outlet

4. we are living in a very censorious world, and this place has been somewhere we can all come to anonymously and share commonly held thoughts on various issues without fear of retribution

5. alongside the argy-bargy, there's a lot of common ground and humour about everything from cars to women we fancy, and from having affairs to farting

6. the news these days is dominated by issues arising from and promoted by things like Brexit, BLM, and historical revisionism, so it's only natural that conversations are going to cover these subjects

7. we were all brought here by a common interest

It used to be a board with no restrictions other than those indicated by laws (KN's 1st point]. Occasionally someone would get kicked a bit for other reasons like being an exceedingly persistent cunt (by common punters' standards) or flouting the official rules. With the changeover, 'hidden' rules were introduced -- which most people just accepted but it pissed some people off. There were also reports of unsavoury practices like the exchange of IP addresses outside of the forum, which no mods or owners would confirm or deny. The demise of off-topic was one of the reasons for many old and seasoned punters leaving -- since, even though they had punted and contributed to a very great degree, it left them feeling irrelevant. Another reason for people leaving or not posting was the vast quantity of utter wankers who feel they have to contribute some piece of utter shite, however irrelevant, to anything posted. There's a place for shite, but also a place for intelligent or well-thought-out threads such as those often started by KN or Nik or many others (fill such threads with shite and such posts become irrelevant).

If there’s “no restrictions” what is there to moderate?
Actually any time I post I heavily 'self-moderate'. The old owner, and Nik before him, was like a friend, reliably always on the side of the punter. The new owners are still an unknown quantity as far as I can see, for better or worse, but it's their forum. The mods and their powers, people who were just contributors before, are also now a fairly unknown quantity. Any member is still a guest, as before, just less sure of the playing field.

The most obvious reason that Off topic was reintroduced is that without it either the punting sections would have fell into nothing but chitchat over past experiences until lockdown disappeared, or else the site could have just stopped altogether.

There is another good reason for Off topic in my opinion -- although I know from experience (as an ex-Mod in the older days) that moderating off-topic is a fucking pain. The benefit, and downside, is I think that members let off steam, fall out, get back together, and basically bond. It gives the forum coherence. Members care about each other, even if they are just cyber entities. When members care about each other, they also care about the forum, possibly in a deeper way than simply the exchange of P4P information. It may even affect the quality of information since it means we care about how useful fellow members will find it to a greater degree, and maybe write accordingly.

ISG has had similar problems in a way. When punting died in the country he had made his home -- it had been among the best in the world -- he seemed to lose interest. The biggest downside though is that one may have to scroll through dozens of long pages of chat to dig down to essential information.

A clear border between punting info and off-topic, irrespective of the level of sense and degree of (or lack of) censorship, is the most important thing when it comes to such a forum fulfilling its primary reason for existence.

I've voted for no restriction -- which would mean more work for moderation -- though don't think it's that important whatever decision is made. Especially given the infrequency of my posts now.

Good luck!

Offline AnthG

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Agree with everything Marmalade just said there.

It's great to see you posting again in offtopic too MM
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Offline Beamer

Since the new ownership, UKP has primarily been a forum for punters. Unfortunately, Coronavirus has got in the way.  The Off-Topic threads have on occasions been hijacked by the "old school", many who do not punt anymore but think they have some divine right to still treat UKP as their own (when it isnt).
Hopefully as soon as punting resumes UKP will revert back to being a great website for punting.
As has been said so many times, other websites are available for Off-Topic threads.
I guess one of the obvious issues for non-punting members to move away is that they seem to think that their "historical reputations" on UKP still mean something.

Offline AnthG

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The Off-Topic threads have on occasions been hijacked by the "old school", many who do not punt anymore but think they have some divine right to still treat UKP as their own (when it isn't).....they seem to think that their "historical reputations" on UKP still mean something.

You mean the old owners. And not just any old owner but the creator of the forum and who made it as successful as it now.  And also secondly, the longest-serving moderator the site has who has given years upon years of service to the site under two owners.

Your post is like one of the Microsoft staffers telling Bill Gates to naff off when he posts on the Microsoft message boards...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 09:04:00 pm by AnthG »
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Offline Beamer

You mean the old owners. And not just any old owner but the creator of the forum and who made it as successful as it now.  And also secondly, the longest-serving moderator the site has who has given years upon years of service to the site under two owners.

Your post is like one of the Microsoft staffers telling Bill Gates to naff off when he posts on the Microsoft message boards...

Do you mean ex-moderator?

Offline smiths

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You mean the old owners. And not just any old owner but the creator of the forum and who made it as successful as it now.  And also secondly, the longest-serving moderator the site has who has given years upon years of service to the site under two owners.

Your post is like one of the Microsoft staffers telling Bill Gates to naff off when he posts on the Microsoft message boards...

IMO its good to see NIK posting regularly on the site he founded again, I most certainly dont agree with him on some things same as other posters, but I have so much respect for him for creating this great forum. And of course its not long before its 10 years old though I didn't join till Feb 2011 as I was on my 6 month punting and punting forum break at the time of its creation. I returned to pnet to find a completely different forum minus a number of punters, I spoke to Steve2 to ask him WTF has happened and he filled me in at which point I joined UKP.

Offline King Nuts

Agree with everything Marmalade just said there.

It's great to see you posting again in offtopic too MM

Ditto. We're better off with you and your sage words than we are without you, Marm.


Online scutty brown

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Too many people looking backwards and reminiscing over how things were  for my liking.
Things have moved on, the membership has evolved, the ownership has changed. The most vociferous proponents for no restriction are virtually all ex-punters trying to reset the clock back to when they were mods or in charge - or rather when they failed to moderate.
Time for them to shut up and let the current management manage. The past is an irrelevance

Offline sparkus

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Ditto. We're better off with you and your sage words than we are without you, Marm.

You just cling on to that liferaft of a comforting voice from the past (I've always valued his punter intel but bridled at his OT contributions, it happens...)

Offline King Nuts

You just cling on to that liferaft of a comforting voice from the past (I've always valued his punter intel but bridled at his OT contributions, it happens...)

Marmalade has been a valuable poster on here for some considerable time, and adds more integrity, intellect and wit to any discussion than most. If you don't like him, there's always the 'ignore' button.

Aa regards 'clinging on to that liferaft of a comforting voice', you really must stop reading Barbara Cartland.

Offline sparkus

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Marmalade has been a valuable poster on here for some considerable time, and adds more integrity, intellect and wit to any discussion than most. If you don't like him, there's always the 'ignore' button.

Aa regards 'clinging on to that liferaft of a comforting voice', you really must stop reading Barbara Cartland.

I don't agree with his politics but agree he brings good intel.  Away from these threads/subjects, even those I vehemently disagree with on them I find myself in agreement with/respecting.

Offline hendrix

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I've voted for no restriction. It's good that people can post what they want (within the law at least) and also good that they can be called out on it. We used to have a very openly racist poster, and I actually respected his contributions as they were honest. He didn't hide behind a "live and let live.. except for immigrants and Muslims" as many intellectual cowards do, he just thought whites were superior, and owned his racism. Fair play in my book.

Offline mh

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When members care about each other, they also care about the forum, possibly in a deeper way than simply the exchange of P4P information. It may even affect the quality of information since it means we care about how useful fellow members will find it to a greater degree, and maybe write accordingly.

I agree. When OT was discontinued I felt that the info exchanged in the regional forums became quite sterile - of course that could just have been my reception of it rather than what was being written by others.

But I know I didn't feel the same impetus to rush back and eagerly report on a punt as I had done when OT was keeping me involved in the forum in my non-punting weeks and months.

Offline mh

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I am getting sick of all of the bickering and would hope we just have positive topics.

That old chestnut. Newspapers with only good news don't sell. News channels with only good news wouldn't survive. Forums with only positive topics won't last.

Offline winkywanky

Meanwhile, strictly back on-Topic: fascinating to see how all three 'versions' of Off-Topic remaining, are vying for the top spot, changing daily it seems. Seems like binning Off-Topic entirely is off the agenda.

How very exciting!  :cool:

Offline daviemac

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Is nobody else seeing the irony in this, those who are advocating an unrestricted off topic are swinging the pendulum firmly towards the restricted camp with the way they post, particularly on this thread.   :sarcastic:

Edit

Even after a mod and Admin have pointed it out.   :wacko:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 02:24:10 pm by daviemac »

Offline winkywanky

It never looks good when you try to big yourself up on an internet forum Anth :rolleyes:  :D

Offline winkywanky

Is nobody else seeing the irony in this, those who are advocating an unrestricted off topic are swinging the pendulum firmly towards the restricted camp with the way they post, particularly on this thread.   :sarcastic:


 :D

Offline Beamer

You mean the old owners. And not just any old owner but the creator of the forum and who made it as successful as it now.  And also secondly, the longest-serving moderator the site has who has given years upon years of service to the site under two owners.

Your post is like one of the Microsoft staffers telling Bill Gates to naff off when he posts on the Microsoft message boards...

I am glad that you are not driving the bus.
We couldn't continue to go in reverse all the time.
As others have said we need to move forward and as far as I am concerned with appropriate respect for the past i.e. see my post .....

Reply #177 on: June 03, 2020, 10:59:00 am »

....this acknowledges the significant contributions made by NIK.

But, in any business, when you sell it or, transfer ownership of assets or, simply give away et al, unless you have an agreement to continue to be involved in some way your interest and any measure of control is normally finished.

Offline sparkus

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I appreciate this digression is a pain in the arse for mods but it's just a bit of fun AND it shows that sworn opponents in the culture war can be civil to each other when they try.

Offline cotton

I am glad that you are not driving the bus.
We couldn't continue to go in reverse all the time.
As others have said we need to move forward and as far as I am concerned with appropriate respect for the past i.e. see my post .....

Reply #177 on: June 03, 2020, 10:59:00 am »

....this acknowledges the significant contributions made by NIK.

But, in any business, when you sell it or, transfer ownership of assets or, simply give away et al, unless you have an agreement to continue to be involved in some way your interest and any measure of control is normally finished.
I dont see why youre so intent on kicking Nik out the door , your idea of "appropriate respect" seems to be a corporate one of "thanks for all your years of service , now fuck off".  That may be appropriate in some circumstances but i personally dont think its appropriate here or the way most members would want Nik to be treated and so far admin , to their credit havnt shown any sign of following your direction.
You would be better of letting go of the bee in your bonnet you have about Nik and focusing on the subject of this topic which was admin canvassing opinions on off topic.

Offline Beamer

I dont see why youre so intent on kicking Nik out the door , your idea of "appropriate respect" seems to be a corporate one of "thanks for all your years of service , now fuck off".  That may be appropriate in some circumstances but i personally dont think its appropriate here or the way most members would want Nik to be treated and so far admin , to their credit havnt shown any sign of following your direction.
You would be better of letting go of the bee in your bonnet you have about Nik and focusing on the subject of this topic which was admin canvassing opinions on off topic.

You really have got it wrong. I have no rationale for "kicking anyone out", like the rest of the membership I can express views disagreeing with other views.
If you read my posts you would see that in no way have I suggested that he "fucks off" and it appears you are trying to create some issues that are not there.
What is for sure is that many new threads have been created that then move to a what appears to be a another subject with keen interest to a minority. I don't have any "bees" either.
I can't wait until punting is back in some format or other so that the real UKP is able to demonstrate it's benefit to members that review.

Offline yandex

Classic!

A bunch of people who don't understand that discussing the racial characteristics of someone might fall foul of the rule about racism.

This is why OT as a whole can't be trusted to police itself

Offline stampjones

I personally think anyone who doesn’t like off topics have a really easy option..

Don’t read or post on it...

That’s a fair point but you can use the exact same logic the other way round. If you want to have a political debate do it in a politics forum.

Point I guess is some of us will need to change our behaviour (unless OT is binned completely). Given there seem to be more who don’t want these types of discussion than do, seems fair that it should be those wanting politics that do it somewhere else

Offline stampjones

I honestly don't know what to make of that, you're either trying to shit stir or you are extremely naive. This form has a great deal of 'control and censorship', as you put it, without off topic.

Subjects such as dogging, porn, swinging, webcamming etc are not allowed to be discussed, you have never complained about that, why should a ban on controversial subjects in off topic be any different.

I have noticed that even this thread has gone down the political left v right route, mainly by the same ones who forget that OldAdmin restricted access to off topic to those who met the criteria he set, he also removed access to off topic from those who abused it, before he binned it altogether that is.

Nobody is against freedom of speech, it just needs to be in the right place, if anyone wants to bleat on about politics, religion or race do it on a forum where it's acceptable, don't try to change one where it isn't allowed. The basic rules of a forum are not a form of censorship they are just a list of what is allowed and what is not allowed, if the rules don't suit you find a forum that has rules that do.
This makes most sense to me and I voted for that option

Offline winkywanky

That’s a fair point but you can use the exact same logic the other way round. If you want to have a political debate do it in a politics forum.

Point I guess is some of us will need to change our behaviour (unless OT is binned completely). Given there seem to be more who don’t want these types of discussion than do, seems fair that it should be those wanting politics that do it somewhere else

Really? I don't think that's true currently:


Stay unrestricted
    42 (30.9%)
Stay with no religion or race topics
    36 (26.5%)
Stay with no religion,race or politics
    42 (30.9%)
No Off Topic. (don't waste your vote) . ;)
    16 (11.8%)

Total Members Voted: 136

Voting closes: June 30, 2020, 06:49:45 pm


Things may change of course but with 6 days to go it's clear that many wish to retain an OT Lounge with few or no restrictions, and it will be a close thing.

Offline RAJEC

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Really? I don't think that's true currently:


Stay unrestricted
    42 (30.9%)
Stay with no religion or race topics
    36 (26.5%)
Stay with no religion,race or politics
    42 (30.9%)
No Off Topic. (don't waste your vote) . ;)
    16 (11.8%)

Total Members Voted: 136

Voting closes: June 30, 2020, 06:49:45 pm


Things may change of course but with 6 days to go it's clear that many wish to retain an OT Lounge with few or no restrictions, and it will be a close thing.

Not if you combine the two ‘stay’ options  :D

Offline winkywanky

Not if that's not how it's going to be applied  ;)

Offline stampjones

Is nobody else seeing the irony in this, those who are advocating an unrestricted off topic are swinging the pendulum firmly towards the restricted camp with the way they post, particularly on this thread.   :sarcastic:

Edit

Even after a mod and Admin have pointed it out.   :wacko:
Ive just read through the thread in a oner and it really does stand out.

Offline stampjones

I think there is another couple of reasons for some restrictions.

1. This is abit hippy dippy so apologies, but we are a punting community. When we all focus on that in the non OT threads it works really well. People complement each other well, eg in outing touts. Of course there is a bit of banter and strong expression of views but it is all for a common purpose and no-one other than a few leeches seem to take it to heart. OT is different. People get extreme and personal very quickly on some subjects and it feels like there is real personal hatred sometimes. That can’t be good for the community and there is a risk it spills onto the important boards. Are you more likely to disagree with a review because you and the author argued on here? That could weaken the core of the site if it happened.

2. Im not sure how much of a risk it is, but the site exists to some extent on the edge of general toleration. It wouldnt take much for a newspaper campaign to do some damage - eg make escort reviews illegal. So I think we want to keep as much of our head below the parapet as possible. Extreme views attract attention and it would be really shit if some view on OT ended up causing damage to the site as a whole. However small a risk it is, it seems unnecessary

Offline Beamer

Really? I don't think that's true currently:


Stay unrestricted
    42 (30.9%)
Stay with no religion or race topics
    36 (26.5%)
Stay with no religion,race or politics
    42 (30.9%)
No Off Topic. (don't waste your vote) . ;)
    16 (11.8%)

Total Members Voted: 136

Voting closes: June 30, 2020, 06:49:45 pm


Things may change of course but with 6 days to go it's clear that many wish to retain an OT Lounge with few or no restrictions, and it will be a close thing.

Is it just me or .........? It's not close at all.
IMO the vote is meaningless because the sample size is no where near the required level to be representative of the members views.
As I understand the situation, just 136 members have voted out of the many '000's who are eligible to voice an opinion via a vote.
Because of the unrealistic numbers i.e. 136 vs '000's I assume that the vote simply becomes a small (tiny) contribution to the information available to enable a decision to be made.
At the end of the day..... we have an owner who will make the best decision for his business,   whatever way it is. ..... and we should support that.
We should all remember that, at the moment, the most important section of the website is reviews and information on SP's.
Roll on a return to the punting days of old............ :hi:
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 10:06:26 am by Beamer »

Offline AnthG

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IMO the vote is meaningless because the sample size is no where near the required level to be representative of the members views.

How many people are active participants of offtopic?

Most people who visit this forum will live inside their own local areas and not know, or even care offtopic exists.

offtopic is like ten-forward on star trek. If you want to mingle and socialise you go there to do so. Some people don't and just go home to their quarters at the end of their shifts. The ship holds thousands upon thousands of people, and yet its always pretty much empty and only the senior staff go there to seen advice from Guinan.
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Offline Beamer

How many people are active participants of offtopic?  no idea, do you have a number?

Most people who visit this forum will live inside their own local areas and not know, or even care offtopic exists. this is a wild assumption, if you don't know the answer to above then you cannot claim your opinion is anything more than your opinion 

offtopic is like ten-forward on star trek. If you want to mingle and socialise you go there to do so. Some people don't and just go home to their quarters at the end of their shifts. The ship holds thousands upon thousands of people, and yet its always pretty much empty and only the senior staff go there to seen advice from Guinan. reading this, to me, it's another wild assumption and not based on facts
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 10:19:35 am by Beamer »

Offline winkywanky

Is it just me or .........? It's not close at all.
IMO the vote is meaningless because the sample size is no where near the required level to be representative of the members views.
As I understand the situation, just 136 members have voted out of the many '000's who are eligible to voice an opinion via a vote.
Because of the unrealistic numbers i.e. 136 vs '000's I assume that the vote simply becomes a small (tiny) contribution to the information available to enable a decision to be made.
At the end of the day..... we have an owner who will make the best decision for his business,   whatever way it is. ..... and we should support that.
We should all remember that, at the moment, the most important section of the website is reviews and information on SP's.
Roll on a return to the punting days of old............ :hi:


Six days to go Beamer  ;).

Like any Election or Referendum, those that vote are the ones that decide the outcome.

With the added caveat on UKP of course, that Head1's final decision is...final.

Offline winkywanky

And by the way, it's not meaningless. It's an anonymous vote so people vote how they really feel.

Also, those than can be arsed, are voting. OT means something to those that are bothered to vote. Of course it's meaningful.

Offline AnthG

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How many people are active participants of offtopic?  no idea, do you have a number?

Yes, 137.  :hi:
Banned reason: To much drama, account closed
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline Beamer


Six days to go Beamer  ;).

Like any Election or Referendum, those that vote are the ones that decide the outcome.
Only if your name is Cameron and you are so ignorant of the outcome of a vote going against you!
With the added caveat on UKP of course, that Head1's final decision is...final.

Offline winkywanky

What's Cameron got to do with UKP?

Unless he's a member here of course, who knows, he might be  :unknown:.

Offline winkywanky

I don't imagine Head1 will be resigning if he doesn't 'like' the outcome. He can do what he likes, it's his site.

And if anyone doesn't like what the outcome is they can stay and get on with it or simply leave. There's a refreshing simplicity in that  :cool:.

Even if he decides to simply bin OT I shan't be leaving, and I shan't be whingeing either.

Offline whiskyfan

Really? I don't think that's true currently:


Stay unrestricted
    42 (30.9%)
Stay with no religion or race topics
    36 (26.5%)
Stay with no religion,race or politics
    42 (30.9%)
No Off Topic. (don't waste your vote) . ;)
    16 (11.8%)

Total Members Voted: 136

Voting closes: June 30, 2020, 06:49:45 pm


Things may change of course but with 6 days to go it's clear that many wish to retain an OT Lounge with few or no restrictions, and it will be a close thing.
Sticking with the figures you've quoted then thats:

42 (30.9%) Unrestricted
78 (57.4%) Voted for no religion or race.
16 (11.8%) No off topic

Could all change but it's nowhere near close at the moment.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 10:32:41 am by whiskyfan »