Players who were great for club and crap for England.

[timsussex]

My memory is slightly biased by the fact that most of the times I saw him play he was probably past his best but equally if anyone younger than 60 is only relying on highlights which dont show his numerous wasted shots from long range.

[WARSZAWA16]

Surely your thinking of Ray Wilkins. They used to call him the crab as he would only pass sideways.  I believe he was also the first England player to be sent off in a major tournament. Bobby Charlton was one of Englands finest. A hell of a shot on him

I remember Alan Mullery getting sent off in the European Championship semi final against Yugoslavia in 1968. He got pilloried by the media for it at the time too:

External Link/Members Only

[timsussex]

In 1960-61 when Charlton was in his prime (and scored a few goals for England ) England played 9 games and scored 45 goals Including 8 in one game and 9 in 2 more !

In 2010-11 also in 9 games England scored 17 goals

Now todays England might not be as great as the 1966 one but which 3 national teams would you bet on England (or anybody) scoring 25 goals  against today ?

There simply aren't the easy targets that were available then Even Scotland managed 10 in 2 games in 1963 !

[HERTSBLUE]

Gerrard
Lampard
Andy Cole
John Terry

John Terry give your head a wobble.

[ratedj]

In 1960-61 when Charlton was in his prime (and scored a few goals for England ) England played 9 games and scored 45 goals Including 8 in one game and 9 in 2 more !

In 2010-11 also in 9 games England scored 17 goals

Now todays England might not be as great as the 1966 one but which 3 national teams would you bet on England (or anybody) scoring 25 goals  against today ?

There simply aren't the easy targets that were available then Even Scotland managed 10 in 2 games in 1963 !

I'm not sure what your argument is here, but assuming that it is that Charlton played against weaker opposition, in football there's an often-used phrase:'You can only beat the opposition in front of you.' In general today's international teams are not as easy to 'roll over' due to more players having access to the best leagues. However, simply put as much as it may be fun to on occasions you cannot compare eras, though whatever era one plays in you do not make 758 appearances for Manchester United and 106 for England (reitiring as record goalscorer for both club and country and winning three league titles, an FA Cup, European Cup, World Cup and Ballon d'Or) without being regarded as world class.

[timsussex]

If games for club v games for Country is a valid point then   I offer


Terry Paine

[hornyguylondon]

I'm not sure what your argument is here, but assuming that it is that Charlton played against weaker opposition, in football there's an often-used phrase:'You can only beat the opposition in front of you.' In general today's international teams are not as easy to 'roll over' due to more players having access to the best leagues. However, simply put as much as it may be fun to on occasions you cannot compare eras, though whatever era one plays in you do not make 758 appearances for Manchester United and 106 for England (reitiring as record goalscorer for both club and country and winning three league titles, an FA Cup, European Cup, World Cup and Ballon d'Or) without being regarded as world class.

Yes but apart from that 

[boardyhell]

Surely your thinking of Ray Wilkins. They used to call him the crab as he would only pass sideways.  I believe he was also the first England player to be sent off in a major tournament. Bobby Charlton was one of Englands finest. A hell of a shot on him

think first english player to sent off in a major tounament was alan mullery in the european championship 1968
as for bobby charlton,give me valuation for a midfield player who scores a goal every three games over 750 games for his club and one in two for his international team
wonder what zidanes stats are ,not putting him down
i do support united and have seen bobby play in real life and watched him call my son back and give him his autograph
a true gentleman and ambassador for football

[mr.bluesky]

think first english player to sent off in a major tounament was alan mullery in the european championship 1968
as for bobby charlton,give me valuation for a midfield player who scores a goal every three games over 750 games for his club and one in two for his international team
wonder what zidanes stats are ,not putting him down
i do support united and have seen bobby play in real life and watched him call my son back and give him his autograph
a true gentleman and ambassador for football

  I stand corrected. Ray Wilkins was the first England player to be sent off in a World cup match ( for throwing the ball at the ref against Morocco after being flagged offside)

[daviemac]

have seen bobby play in real life and watched him call my son back and give him his autograph
a true gentleman and ambassador for football

Only ever booked twice as well, once with England and once with Man U, never sent off.   Rooney's count - 135 yellow and 7 red.

[hornyguylondon]

Only ever booked twice as well, once with England and once with Man U, never sent off.   Rooney's count - 135 yellow and 7 red.

Oh and he survived the Munich air disaster that unfortunately killed the majority of the Busby Babes. They don't make them like that anymore 

Rooney wouldn't survive falling off a granny in Munich 

[NIK]

Surely your thinking of Ray Wilkins. They used to call him the crab as he would only pass sideways.  I believe he was also the first England player to be sent off in a major tournament. Bobby Charlton was one of Englands finest. A hell of a shot on him

 

How Ray boring Wilkins got the number of caps he did remains one of football's great mysteries. I think I'd even take Beckham over him!

[boardyhell]

old big head ,brian clough ,scored a ratio of 0.916 goals per game
251 goals 274 games
2 games england full team no goals
wasn't just a great manager
when he ran onto the pitch after pitch invasion and hit two fans, the headline the next day was
when the shit really hit the fan
a true legend ,sadly missed , a true genius

[webpunter]

Was thinking that you have upped your game when it comes to threads on here
Then you decide to take a pop @ golden balls
Need i remind you
External Link/Members Only
I was in a boozer & we were about to go home late afternoon / early evening very dejected
Then it changed
The beer went everywhere.  Face ... bothered
We all stayed out until stupid o'clock & got superbly cunted.  Hurrah & happy days
I am 'Super Leeds' so can't be accused of mentioning this coz being a scum supporter

How Ray boring Wilkins got the number of caps he did remains one of football's great mysteries. I think I'd even take Beckham over him!

[boardyhell]

beckham from memory got second best player in the world from memory, total joke and i support united
however he was a superb player with a fantastic work ethic and crossing ability, not to mention his free kicks
had limitations ,wilkins not in the same class
if fergie had to chose 2 out of three,beckham,scholes and keane
becks could have done another brylcreem advert
very good but not a great

[HERTSBLUE]

Slightly going off the topic but Messi has to be the best example of it.

Ok he has had teams set up to support him at Barca but for Argentina he has never scaled the same heights

True that's why I think Ronaldo edges it for me he has carried Portugal to a Euro done it  in England Spain and Italy.

[timsussex]

if fergie had to chose 2 out of three,beckham,scholes and keane

Interesting question

If 2 then I would go Beckham and Keane - complement each other well

Choose 1 and it would be Scholes - more complete than either of the other 2 

[bhudda]

Interesting question

If 2 then I would go Beckham and Keane - complement each other well

Choose 1 and it would be Scholes - more complete than either of the other 2

Whats your definition of complete? Scholes was a brilliant player but his tackling was a liability

[Blackpool Rock]

Whats your definition of complete? Scholes was a brilliant player but his tackling was a liability

Thing is you also need to factor in that whilst playing for Man Utd players could go in hard and get away with it most times as the ref / officials were unlikely to take any action against the player due to being shit scared of Fergie, 12th man 

[ratedj]

Interesting question

If 2 then I would go Beckham and Keane - complement each other well

Choose 1 and it would be Scholes - more complete than either of the other 2

Keane and Scholes all day long. One of United's best ever midfield pairings. Scholes's goals and range of passing married well with Keane's drive and tenacity, whilst he too had an eye for a goal. If anything Beckham and G Nev developed a deep understanding on the right side of the pitch.

[hornyguylondon]

beckham from memory got second best player in the world from memory, total joke and i support united
however he was a superb player with a fantastic work ethic and crossing ability, not to mention his free kicks
had limitations ,wilkins not in the same class
if fergie had to chose 2 out of three,beckham,scholes and keane
becks could have done another brylcreem advert
very good but not a great

Beckham got the boot from Fergie - in the head 
Never got on with Keane - hate each other 
Leaves Scholes who probably was the most influential on a consistent basis - even though his tackling was see ball take man 

[boardyhell]

Beckham got the boot from Fergie - in the head 
Never got on with Keane - hate each other 
Leaves Scholes who probably was the most influential on a consistent basis - even though his tackling was see ball take man 

scholes would have fitted into the Revie Leeds team seamlessly
No charity in that team
Wonderful team , plus madely as sub
Sprake  reaney  cooper Bremner  Charlton Hunter Lorimer Clarke Jones Giles gray

[NIK]

scholes would have fitted into the Revie Leeds team seamlessly
No charity in that team
Wonderful team , plus madely as sub
Sprake  reaney  cooper Bremner  Charlton Hunter Lorimer Clarke Jones Giles gray

Yes, phenomenal team, with the perfect substitute who could play anywhere, but you have Gary Sprake, the original crap goalkeeper rather than the much better David Harvey who replaced him around half way through their great period

[hornyguylondon]

scholes would have fitted into the Revie Leeds team seamlessly
No charity in that team
Wonderful team , plus madely as sub
Sprake  reaney  cooper Bremner  Charlton Hunter Lorimer Clarke Jones Giles gray

They were my fav team when I was younger - all household names, looking brilliant in their all white strip - the Real madrid of England 
Madeley could play anywhere as I remember - Mr utility

[Beamer]

They were my fav team when I was younger - all household names, looking brilliant in their all white strip - the Real madrid of England 
Madeley could play anywhere as I remember - Mr utility

Sad to see that Trevor Cherry has died. Although a different era he was a very dependable defender.

[hornyguylondon]

Sad to see that Trevor Cherry has died. Although a different era he was a very dependable defender.

Saw Paul Reaney coaching kids a few years ago - must have been in his 70's yet looked as fit as a fiddle.

[The Film Director]

looking brilliant in their all white strip - the Real madrid of England 

Hate to put a dampener on proceedings  .

Real Madrid - European cup wins - 13,  Leeds - zero.

[Blackpool Rock]

Hate to put a dampener on proceedings  .

Real Madrid - European cup wins - 13,  Leeds - zero.

Yeah more like Fail madrid 

[hornyguylondon]

Hate to put a dampener on proceedings  .

Real Madrid - European cup wins - 13,  Leeds - zero.

Read my post - they wore the same strip smart arse 

[hornyguylondon]

Yeah more like Fail madrid 

Read my post - they wore the same strip smart arse 

[Hobbit]

Ian Wright. - Amazing at Arsenal but not outstanding for England. He should have scored more goals for England but he never had a midfield to create enough for him. 

[NIK]

Ian Wright. - Amazing at Arsenal but not outstanding for England. He should have scored more goals for England but he never had a midfield to create enough for him. 

Yes Ian Wright is perhaps the major international, certainly since the 70's, never to play in a tournament. He didn't come into professional football until relatively late to start with. Wasn't favoured for the Sweden Euro 92 squad. In the 94 USA World Cup when he was perhaps around his peak, England didn't qualify. Again he wasn't picked for Euro 96 and got back in the squad before the 98 world cup but got injured before the tournament. It seems he was even unluckier than the great Kevin Keegan who only played about 20 minutes in a World Cup and when he was past his best.

[mr.bluesky]

Yes Ian Wright is perhaps the major international, certainly since the 70's, never to play in a tournament. He didn't come into professional football until relatively late to start with. Wasn't favoured for the Sweden Euro 92 squad. In the 94 USA World Cup when he was perhaps around his peak, England didn't qualify. Again he wasn't picked for Euro 96 and got back in the squad before the 98 world cup but got injured before the tournament. It seems he was even unluckier than the great Kevin Keegan who only played about 20 minutes in a World Cup and when he was past his best.

Ian Wright probably would have won more caps for England had Alan Shearer not been around. Shearer was always going to be first choice striker for England. It's like goalkeeper Ray Clemence was second choice behind Peter Shilton

[Blackpool Rock]

Ian Wright probably would have won more caps for England had Alan Shearer not been around. Shearer was always going to be first choice striker for England. It's like goalkeeper Ray Clemence was second choice behind Peter Shilton

As I recall Ian Wright also had a bit of an attitude / anger management / chip on his shoulder issue which hung over him like a cloud.

That may be all well and good if he's an outstanding talent playing a 38 game domestic season as you can afford for him to get yellow carded and banned for a few games plus sent off a couple of times, but risking it at international level during the knock out stages is a different scenario.

If i'm the manager I still want 11 players on the pitch for the full 90 minutes plus any extra time that's played

[NIK]

Ian Wright probably would have won more caps for England had Alan Shearer not been around. Shearer was always going to be first choice striker for England. It's like goalkeeper Ray Clemence was second choice behind Peter Shilton

Yes, and Sheringham was always a better foil for Shearer than Wright would have been. Then of course, the initially brilliant Michael Owen emerged.
Wrighty was indeed around at the wrong time!

[NIK]

As I recall Ian Wright also had a bit of an attitude / anger management / chip on his shoulder issue which hung over him like a cloud.

That may be all well and good if he's an outstanding talent playing a 38 game domestic season as you can afford for him to get yellow carded and banned for a few games plus sent off a couple of times, but risking it at international level during the knock out stages is a different scenario.

If i'm the manager I still want 11 players on the pitch for the full 90 minutes plus any extra time that's played

Yes he did, but Rooney was also a bit of a bad egg at times.

[ratedj]

Yes, and Sheringham was always a better foil for Shearer than Wright would have been. Then of course, the initially brilliant Michael Owen emerged.
Wrighty was indeed around at the wrong time!

This is it, right place at the wrong time. I don't think England had a better assortment of strikers than it had during the 90s. Shearer, Sheringham, Ferdinand, Cole, Collymore, Fowler, Le Tissier, Sutton, and then of course by the end of the decade Owen burst onto the scene.

[Blackpool Rock]

This is it, right place at the wrong time. I don't think England had a better assortment of strikers than it had during the 90s. Shearer, Sheringham, Ferdinand, Cole, Collymore, Fowler, Le Tissier, Sutton, and then of course by the end of the decade Owen burst onto the scene.

Yeah and we still won Fuck All   

Add to that some decent defenders and mid fielders and i've always looked back at that team / squad of the last half of the 90's and thought there was a wealth of decent talent which was squandered by Glenn Hoddle 

[boardyhell]

Yes, phenomenal team, with the perfect substitute who could play anywhere, but you have Gary Sprake, the original crap goalkeeper rather than the much better David Harvey who replaced him around half way through their great period

agree spake was on the edge of his box and threw it into his own net but he was the goalie in that team

[tightfoot69]

Yes Ian Wright is perhaps the major international, certainly since the 70's, never to play in a tournament. He didn't come into professional football until relatively late to start with. Wasn't favoured for the Sweden Euro 92 squad. In the 94 USA World Cup when he was perhaps around his peak, England didn't qualify. Again he wasn't picked for Euro 96 and got back in the squad before the 98 world cup but got injured before the tournament. It seems he was even unluckier than the great Kevin Keegan who only played about 20 minutes in a World Cup and when he was past his best.

Incredible to think players like Wright, Andy Cole and Le Tissier were not part of any squads for a major tournament. Les Ferdinand was in a couple of squads but never got on the pitch.

Another strange stat is Rio Ferdinand was not part of a European Championship squad despite making 4 World Cup squads(he got injured in 2010 though):
Euro 2000 - dropped
Euro 2004 - drug ban
Euro 2008 - never qualified
Euro 2012 - left out by Hodgson because he could not play with John Terry after the racism row.