Players who were great for club and crap for England.

[The Film Director]

Bryan Robson - Over rated

Mind though only an average player, he was the best Engand had for a number of years ..... admittedly in a shit team. 

[WARSZAWA16]

Mind though only an average player, he was the best Engand had for a number of years ..... admittedly in a shit team. 

Too many injuries though, unfortunately. Thought he was decent enough for club and country though, when fit.

[Kingy28]

Too many injuries though, unfortunately. Thought he was decent enough for club and country though, when fit.

He was captain of England & he was our best player when fully fit

[NIK]

Bryan Robson was an excellent player whose career was somewhat hampered by injuries. He would certainly be in my all time England team
Conversely, the over hyped overrated Beckham wouldn’t be in my squad.

[Chorley]

John Barnes! Close the thread 

[Chorley]

Going back to England, another example of highly rated at club but not international level: Paul Scholes.

This. When someone of the calibre of Zinedine Zidane rates him as one of the best midfielders he's ever faced you know he was good.

[boardyhell]

Too many injuries though, unfortunately. Thought he was decent enough for club and country though, when fit.

bryan robson was amazing,2 broken legs ,came back and led england and united
for those who have forgotten, he was called captain marvel for england
when he got injured united and england win rates dropped
got england off to to win against france in the world cup with 2 goals
better than keane imho
too many injuries ,missed a world cup because of high jinks with gascoigne,covered up as an ankle injury

[mr.bluesky]

I always thought Paul Scholes was overrated.  He used to tackle with all the finesse of a bull in a China shop. Gave countless free kicks away. Given the choice I would chose Bryan Robson any day

[boardyhell]

different players, both great
i grew up on bobby charlton ,best ,law etc
robson didn't have the same skill but the drive was incredible
all legends
have seem them all in the flesh

[The Film Director]

better than keane imho

Don't think so 

[hornyguylondon]

I always thought Paul Scholes was overrated.  He used to tackle with all the finesse of a bull in a China shop. Gave countless free kicks away. Given the choice I would chose Bryan Robson any day

Scholes certainly wasn’t a flashy player that caught your eye so I agree he never looked like a superstar. I would however take note when players such as zidane, viera, bergkamp,  Henry all rate him one of the best they played against.

[george r]

Was going to suggest Beckham but not forgiven him for his petulant kick that got him sent off v Argentina 

he was crap in the last two world cups he played in !!  so over rated..

[NIK]

This. When someone of the calibre of Zinedine Zidane rates him as one of the best midfielders he's ever faced you know he was good.

Scholes was another really excellent player, but like so many excellent English players - Gerrard, Lampard to name 2 more - was never quite truly world class in the sense that they win the big trophies and really influence the major games in the way that someone like Zidane, Maradona, Messi, Van Basten or Cruyff did. I suppose it could be argued Gerrard did in the Champions league final comeback against Milan, but he didn't do it consistently enough to be truly world class, and he also made costly mistakes in big games.
Still unlike Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes would all be in my all time England squad but not in the first team.

[ratedj]

Scholes was another really excellent player, but like so many excellent English players - Gerrard, Lampard to name 2 more - was never quite truly world class in the sense that they win the big trophies and really influence the major games in the way that someone like Zidane, Maradona, Messi, Van Basten or Cruyff did. I suppose it could be argued Gerrard did in the Champions league final comeback against Milan, but he didn't do it consistently enough to be truly world class, and he also made costly mistakes in big games.
Still unlike Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes would all be in my all time England squad but not in the first team.

The biggest compliment you can pay Scholes was that he was a footballer's footballer, and Zidane's assessment of him only add to this view. Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard were certainly world class players; the difference is that Zidane, Maradona, Van Basten and Cruyff were (and in the case of Messi, still is) generational talents.

[Chorley]

Scholes certainly wasn’t a flashy player that caught your eye so I agree he never looked like a superstar. I would however take note when players such as zidane, viera, bergkamp,  Henry all rate him one of the best they played against.

Exactly. To say Scholes, Gerrard were not world class seems silly, but Zidane, Cruyff etc were once in a generation geniuses and innovators who dominates their eras.

[ulstersubbie]

Bryan Robson was an excellent player whose career was somewhat hampered by injuries. He would certainly be in my all time England team
Conversely, the over hyped overrated Beckham wouldn’t be in my squad.

I agree, that's coming from a jock!

Robson, Mcgrath, Whiteside all excellent footballers at Man Utd, but all injury prone, a great shame really.

[Chorley]

I agree, that's coming from a jock!

Robson, Mcgrath, Whiteside all excellent footballers at Man Utd, but all injury prone, a great shame really.

Agreed. 
Add Michael Owen to that list. He was incredible before the injuries started to pile up. That goal at France 98 is still one of my all time favourites.

[timsussex]

Conversely, the over hyped overrated Beckham wouldn’t be in my squad.

so who would play on the right wing ? and take your free kicks from just outside the box ? and corners?

he couldn't take the ball off a 5 year old and didn't have the bottle to combat the hard men but give him time (or a dead ball) and he could produce better than anyone else

[mr.bluesky]

so who would play on the right wing ? and take your free kicks from just outside the box ? and corners?

he couldn't take the ball off a 5 year old and didn't have the bottle to combat the hard men but give him time (or a dead ball) and he could produce better than anyone else

Have to agree. Beckham was the best passer, crosser of the ball and free kick specialist England's had. He may have cost us the game against Argentina in the world cup with his petulance but who could forget that goal from a free kick he scored against Greece when England looked down and out.

[MilleMiglia]

Have to agree. Beckham was the best passer, crosser of the ball and free kick specialist England's had. He may have cost us the game against Argentina in the world cup with his petulance but who could forget that goal from a free kick he scored against Greece when England looked down and out.

This is true, but what really kept us in business that day was Anti Niemi's performance for Finland. The Germans had the Finnish goal under siege, and he played a blinder. 

[Beamer]

so who would play on the right wing ? and take your free kicks from just outside the box ? and corners?

he couldn't take the ball off a 5 year old and didn't have the bottle to combat the hard men but give him time (or a dead ball) and he could produce better than anyone else

Watching Beckham last night in the memorable ManU 5-3 turn around vs Spurs no one comes close to his passing and deadball skill.

[Chorley]

I still rate this as the best goal an England player has scored. External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

Wow, outwardly perhaps not as spectacular as some bicycle-kick-volley into the top corner, but from one end to the other, a steal from Ince near his own box, an exquisitely-weighted through ball from Beckham, and finished of by a quicksilver, un-injured Owen at the top of his game.

Blissful.

[Chorley]

Wow, outwardly perhaps not as spectacular as some bicycle-kick-volley into the top corner, but from one end to the other, a steal from Ince near his own box, an exquisitely-weighted through ball from Beckham, and finished of by a quicksilver, un-injured Owen at the top of his game.

Blissful.

Wow indeed.
The first touch is exquisite, and the pace that takes him past Chamot and Ayalla is frightening. Then there's THAT finish.
 And it's even more wow when you realise (a) he's 18 here (b) this was his second full game for England.

[winkywanky]

I don't follow Football now (as you may have gathered  ) but I do remember Owen's potentially amazing career being stunted by injury after injury, a source of enormous frustration for any England fan. He seemed to have as much God-given talent as someone like Maradona, but without actually borrowing God's hand   .

[hornyguylondon]

I don't follow Football now (as you may have gathered  ) but I do remember Owen's potentially amazing career being stunted by injury after injury, a source of enormous frustration for any England fan. He seemed to have as much God-given talent as someone like Maradona, but without actually borrowing God's hand   .

Yep, we all thought he would be a world beater when he scored that World cup goal. I wouldn't say he had the skill of a Maradona but he had blistering pace that left defenders standing. Unfortunately he was never quite the player after injuries deprived him of that 

[ratedj]

I don't follow Football now (as you may have gathered  ) but I do remember Owen's potentially amazing career being stunted by injury after injury, a source of enormous frustration for any England fan. He seemed to have as much God-given talent as someone like Maradona, but without actually borrowing God's hand   .

I'm not sure that I would describe Owen as having possesd the same God-given talent as Maradona, though he was talented nonetheless. The problem for Owen was that his entire game was underpinned by his explosive pace, and numerous hamstring injuries put paid to that. Once it had gone he did not possess enough additional atrributes that would have allowed him to transition his game.

[scutty brown]

Bobby Charlton
Master of territory-losing backwards passes. He and his legacy buggered up English performance for years. He'd stay in the middle of the pitch,  never move forward, and make virtually every pass back into his own half. Had no  concept of attacking play, he was content with keeping the ball in the wrong half of the pitch.

[hornyguylondon]

Bobby Charlton
Master of territory-losing backwards passes. He and his legacy buggered up English performance for years. He'd stay in the middle of the pitch,  never move forward, and make virtually every pass back into his own half. Had no  concept of attacking play, he was content with keeping the ball in the wrong half of the pitch.

Bobby Charlton was part of the England World cup winning squad so they couldn't have been that bad 

[winkywanky]

Yep, we all thought he would be a world beater when he scored that World cup goal. I wouldn't say he had the skill of a Maradona but he had blistering pace that left defenders standing. Unfortunately he was never quite the player after injuries deprived him of that 

I'm not sure that I would describe Owen as having possesd the same God-given talent as Maradona, though he was talented nonetheless. The problem for Owen was that his entire game was underpinned by his explosive pace, and numerous hamstring injuries put paid to that. Once it had gone he did not possess enough additional atrributes that would have allowed him to transition his game.

 

[scutty brown]

Bobby Charlton was part of the England World cup winning squad so they couldn't have been that bad 

They won despite him, not because of him - but afterwards he was a liability.

[WARSZAWA16]

But for Bobby Charlton's goals against Mexico and Portugal England probably wouldn't have won the world cup in 1966.

External Link/Members Only

Also, Ramsey substituting him against West Germany in the 1970 world cup enabled Beckenbauer to move forward and be influential in enabling West Germany to become confident and come back and win 3-2.

His influence and the respect the opposition had for him should not be under estimated. Certainly one of the best players I have seen. 

[hornyguylondon]

They won despite him, not because of him - but afterwards he was a liability.

They didn't win despite him, he scored 3 goals from midfield in the tournament and was man of the match v Portugal in the semi final scoring both goals.

Oh and the "liability" played 106 games and scored 49 goals for England to become one of the greatest to play for England 

[ratedj]

They didn't win despite him, he scored 3 goals from midfield in the tournament and was man of the match v Portugal in the semi final scoring both goals.

Oh and the "liability" played 106 games and scored 49 goals for England to become one of the greatest to play for England 

Yeah, 49 goals from 106 games does not scream liability or crap to me.

[Chorley]

Bobby Charlton
Master of territory-losing backwards passes. He and his legacy buggered up English performance for years. He'd stay in the middle of the pitch,  never move forward, and make virtually every pass back into his own half. Had no  concept of attacking play, he was content with keeping the ball in the wrong half of the pitch.

Really? Have you been smoking crack Scutty? 

[NIK]

Bobby Charlton
Master of territory-losing backwards passes. He and his legacy buggered up English performance for years. He'd stay in the middle of the pitch,  never move forward, and make virtually every pass back into his own half. Had no  concept of attacking play, he was content with keeping the ball in the wrong half of the pitch.

You even talk shite about football.
I expect you prefer Beckham. 

[jimmymac]

Bobby Charlton
Master of territory-losing backwards passes. He and his legacy buggered up English performance for years. He'd stay in the middle of the pitch,  never move forward, and make virtually every pass back into his own half. Had no  concept of attacking play, he was content with keeping the ball in the wrong half of the pitch.

WTF? I've read some shite on the internet recently but this is the worst yet. How could a man score 49 goals for his country if he stayed in the middle of the pitch, never moved forward, had no concept of attacking play and kept the ball in the wrong half of the pitch ?  What you have said just doesn't make sense!! He must have scored all those goals with 60 yard shots from his own half of the field so!!

[hornyguylondon]

WTF? I've read some shite on the internet recently but this is the worst yet. How could a man score 49 goals for his country if he stayed in the middle of the pitch, never moved forward, had no concept of attacking play and kept the ball in the wrong half of the pitch ?  What you have said just doesn't make sense!! He must have scored all those goals with 60 yard shots from his own half of the field so!!

  He was known for his very long goal kicks allegedly 

[jimmymac]

He was known for his very long goal kicks allegedly 

 

[NIK]

WTF? I've read some shite on the internet recently but this is the worst yet. How could a man score 49 goals for his country if he stayed in the middle of the pitch, never moved forward, had no concept of attacking play and kept the ball in the wrong half of the pitch ?  What you have said just doesn't make sense!! He must have scored all those goals with 60 yard shots from his own half of the field so!!

Pay no mind. He’s a troll. 

[The Film Director]

Pay no mind. He’s a troll. 

Bobby Charlton was a true world class player, unlike the likes of Lampard and Gerrard (and before anyone asks, no I'm not a MU fan, despite coming from London ).

[george r]

Bobby Charlton was a true world class player, unlike the likes of Lampard and Gerrard (and before anyone asks, no I'm not a MU fan, despite coming from London ).

 

[timsussex]

Bobby Charlton was a true world class player, unlike the likes of Lampard and Gerrard (and before anyone asks, no I'm not a MU fan, despite coming from London ).

Sorry but my overriding memory of Charlton is watching him shoot from outside the penalty area and missing the goal, in fact the corner flag was in more danger in some of his shots.

However in 1966 Germany wasted Beckenbauer (who really was world class) man-marking Charlton; so at least some people rated him

[hornyguylondon]

Sorry but my overriding memory of Charlton is watching him shoot from outside the penalty area and missing the goal, in fact the corner flag was in more danger in some of his shots.

However in 1966 Germany wasted Beckenbauer (who really was world class) man-marking Charlton; so at least some people rated him

Your overriding memory is a missed shot when he was one of the most influential players to win the only World cup we've ever won   

Apparently they were man marking each other so that nullified both in the final 

[timsussex]

Your overriding memory is a missed shot when he was one of the most influential players to win the only World cup we've ever won   

re-read my post I said shots = plural Memories from many games

[ratedj]

re-read my post I said shots = plural Memories from many games

Yet despite those 'missed shots' he still managed to finish his career as record goalscorer for England and Manchester United. The suggestion that Bobby Charlton wasn't a world class player is just illogical and a non-starter, that is if that's what you are suggesting, of course.

[hornyguylondon]

re-read my post I said shots = plural Memories from many games

Sorry I missed the importance of that point.
I was focusing on him being a World cup winner with 106 caps, 49 goals for England and one of the greatest ever to play for his country but  if you saw him miss a few shots he must have been crap then   

 

[willie loman]

I seem to remember him scoring some" roy of the rovers goals", plus clive james, gave us the neologism, "the Charlton comb-over.

[mr.bluesky]

Bobby Charlton
Master of territory-losing backwards passes. He and his legacy buggered up English performance for years. He'd stay in the middle of the pitch,  never move forward, and make virtually every pass back into his own half. Had no  concept of attacking play, he was content with keeping the ball in the wrong half of the pitch.

Surely your thinking of Ray Wilkins. They used to call him the crab as he would only pass sideways.  I believe he was also the first England player to be sent off in a major tournament. Bobby Charlton was one of Englands finest. A hell of a shot on him

[daviemac]

Sorry but my overriding memory of Charlton is watching him shoot from outside the penalty area and missing the goal, in fact the corner flag was in more danger in some of his shots.

However in 1966 Germany wasted Beckenbauer (who really was world class) man-marking Charlton; so at least some people rated him

Not only did he retire as England's leading goal scorer, he still has a slightly better goal per game average than Rooney. If Charlton had played another 14 games to be equal with Rooney, I wonder how many more goals he would've scored.