Artemis Raided

[cenas]

So, I was at the Artemis tonight and suddenly the police came in. When I saw the first guy screaming "Polizei" entering the room, I even thought he was a stripper... But no. The building was already locked down, nobody goes in or out.

There was a mega raid to the place. Every punter was questioned (as witness) and apparently, the owner was arrested.

Sounds like they went there because they suspect the girls are not so independent.

So, if you're planning to go there anytime soon, I'm not sure it would be opened, although a cop told me they might be able to reopen tomorrow. And be careful if you're going to any other brothel around Germany. I wouldn't be surprised if other brothels were under investigation under similar accusations.

It's my second day in Berlin. Yesterday I went to a swingers club that turned out to be a waste of time. Today I spent an hour at the Artemis and finished the night in a Police van. Was planning to go to Insomnia tomorrow, but with the luck I'm having, I probably shouldn't leave the hotel room...

News: External Link/Members Only

[Jerboa]

Ok you were very unlucky, so did you manage to see any girl? I can't remember the last time Artemis was raided, but why were you in a police van for a hour? Ok thanks for posting by why be wary, prostitution is legal in Germany, so the punter hasn't broken any law.

Why was the swinger club a disaster? It would be good to share, that's what this forums for.

[Dimond dave]

Be good to know the details

Ok you were very unlucky, so did you manage to see any girl? I can't remember the last time Artemis was raided, but why were you in a police van for a hour? Ok thanks for posting by why be wary, prostitution is legal in Germany, so the punter hasn't broken any law.

Why was the swinger club a disaster? It would be good to share, that's what this forums for.

[cenas]

Ok you were very unlucky, so did you manage to see any girl? I can't remember the last time Artemis was raided, but why were you in a police van for a hour? Ok thanks for posting by why be wary, prostitution is legal in Germany, so the punter hasn't broken any law.

Why was the swinger club a disaster? It would be good to share, that's what this forums for.

I had just finished with a tall blond german called Danielle. Her service was very good. OWO, RO, but, unfortunately no kissing. It all happened while I was taking a break before my next punt.

Every punter was interviewed by the Police. Only as witnesses, nothing bad, except for the hassle. In my case, it took longer than it should because they needed someone who spoke English. Which apparently most of the cops there didn't.

Prostitution is legal, but if a club is under suspicion of incurring in other ilegal activities, that can cause the punters a bad experience as well. In this incident, it only ruined the night for everyone. But there are now records detailing everyone who was at the club last night. What if they get leaked? For this reason, I would advise anyone to exercise caution before visiting Artemis or other FKKs, specially if privacy is a major concern.

As to my swinging experience, I was at Swingerclub Zwiespalt. I went there on the Erotic Massage day which meant there was a masseuse providing massages for everyone. The massage was very poor. She didn't seem to have any training, only rubbed some oil on my back without applying any pressure. Finished with a hand job. The hand job was ok, but nothing special about it. Other than this, there was only about 10 people in there, most of them men. Only one couple and a single girl. Nobody was playing, everyone stayed at the bar. It wasn't a bad night, had good conversations with everyone there and the beer was included (60€ entrance), but there was no swinging going on.

If I had gone to Artemis on Tuesday and Swingerclub Zwiespalt on Wednesday (gang bang day), as I had originally planned, would probably had a much better time at both.

[Dimond dave]

That's a bummer about the raid. That was on my todo lists have to say privacy is a strong to bg in my world. Bit of a bummer now

I had just finished with a tall blond german called Danielle. Her service was very good. OWO, RO, but, unfortunately no kissing. It all happened while I was taking a break before my next punt.

Every punter was interviewed by the Police. Only as witnesses, nothing bad, except for the hassle. In my case, it took longer than it should because they needed someone who spoke English. Which apparently most of the cops there didn't.

Prostitution is legal, but if a club is under suspicion of incurring in other ilegal activities, that can cause the punters a bad experience as well. In this incident, it only ruined the night for everyone. But there are now records detailing everyone who was at the club last night. What if they get leaked? For this reason, I would advise anyone to exercise caution before visiting Artemis or other FKKs, specially if privacy is a major concern.

As to my swinging experience, I was at Swingerclub Zwiespalt. I went there on the Erotic Massage day which meant there was a masseuse providing massages for everyone. The massage was very poor. She didn't seem to have any training, only rubbed some oil on my back without applying any pressure. Finished with a hand job. The hand job was ok, but nothing special about it. Other than this, there was only about 10 people in there, most of them men. Only one couple and a single girl. Nobody was playing, everyone stayed at the bar. It wasn't a bad night, had good conversations with everyone there and the beer was included (60€ entrance), but there was no swinging going on.

If I had gone to Artemis on Tuesday and Swingerclub Zwiespalt on Wednesday (gang bang day), as I had originally planned, would probably had a much better time at both.

[DannyJames]

BBC article: External Link/Members Only

[maxQ]

BBC article: External Link/Members Only

Typical BBC headline

I bet the raid has more to do with tax than "trafficking"  expect plenty of lies in the Guardian and other left wing media over the next few days

[Jerboa]

BBC article: External Link/Members Only

That article is a load of tripe, the girls at every saunaclub are self employed, the clubs don't pay them a cent, or it would break the German anti pimping laws. No doubt the boss has pissed someone off, but you do notice from time to time the Polizei do raid one of the big clubs, sounds like they are wanting to charge the boss with unpaid social security and pension payments, as they make the point that the girls are employed by the club, just because there is loose agreement on girls working rota.

[DannyJames]

That article is a load of tripe

For the sake of clarity, I was simply highlighting a news article rather than endorsing it.

[Jerboa]

For the sake of clarity, I was simply highlighting a news article rather than endorsing it.

Ok not taking it out on you, just reading the article proves the journalist who wrote it hasn't got a clue.

[Dimond dave]

So daft question ,, save this is legal over there ,, never been but heading there next month ,, what would your advise be is a lad is in a lace like that and it's raided

Ok not taking it out on you, just reading the article proves the journalist who wrote it hasn't got a clue.

[Steve2]

If I had gone to Artemis on Tuesday and Swingerclub Zwiespalt on Wednesday (gang bang day), as I had originally planned, would probably had a much better time at both.

Swingeroase is very hit and miss on a Wednesday. I have been 4 or 5 times and only really enjoyed twice

[Marmalade]

"€6.4 million in cash, cars and property, also including 12 apartments and other premises in Berlin and nationwide" makes a tidy little confiscation. Do German police get "their percentage"?

External Link/Members Only

[Marmalade]

Apparently it goes to the state, without police getting a "cut" as is the case in the UK.
External Link/Members Only (pp18,19, though there's plenty of 'wiggle room')

So what would be the motive for such a heavy-handed seizure? The newspaper reports suggest a small number of alleged offences, including a pissed-off ex-biker-girl. Hardly the sort of evidence to justify confiscating millions of euros, cars and property. Could it be Merkel wanting a news diversion? But I can't see the story diverting attention from immigrants that much, unless she starts swooping on every shagfest venue with trumped up charges...

[DannyJames]

Ok not taking it out on you, just reading the article proves the journalist who wrote it hasn't got a clue.

I know you weren't, buddy. I just like clarity, that's all.

And I agree, but then journalists rarely do have a clue!

[Jerboa]

So daft question ,, save this is legal over there ,, never been but heading there next month ,, what would your advise be is a lad is in a lace like that and it's raided

Raids on saunaclubs is rare, I've never been at a club when it's been raided, the Polizei do check the girls ID's now and again but that's a low key visit, you would really be unlucky to get caught up in a raid, and since Artemis was just raided, I would say it's no chance of another raid, If you do get caught in a raid, not much you can do about it, but maybe good idea to have some form of photo ID.

[FkkSaunaClubsBlog]

That article is a load of tripe

What exactly in the article is 'tripe'?

[Jerboa]

What exactly in the article is 'tripe'?

The poor ill-informed article by the journalist, but then again it could of just been a word for word article written by the press officer of the Federal German polizei.

The club has reopened, but for how long we don't know. Do some in the German establishment want the clubs shut down? Maybe some do, and they want to find a excuse to do so. But it's more likely this raid is to target organised crime, most punters might not be aware, but there is a loose association of Hell Angels and competing Turkish gangs, that allegedly supply girls to the clubs. As we know brothels are legal there, but there is a anti pimping law, which was introduced to protect the girls, so you can run a brothel, the girls are not employed directly by the club, they are self employed, pay entry just like male guests, and pay a local city tax. It seems like the Polizei are making the case that because the club has rules set out for the girls, and runs a work rota then the club is employing the girls, so it wants the club to pay social security and tax payments.

More likely that they are chasing the Hells Angels links to Artemis and other clubs in Germany, and at raiding the club they are making a big statement and following the money trail, would not be surprised if other big clubs are raided soon, I don't know why brothel owners have used or use pimps to supply girls to their clubs, in this modern internet connected world you would think girls have every opportunity to travel to and work in any German club, this is one aspect of the business I would like to see crushed, I have no time for bf's/pimps who supply girls. 

[FkkSaunaClubsBlog]

It seems like the Polizei are making the case that because the club has rules set out for the girls, and runs a work rota then the club is employing the girls, so it wants the club to pay social security and tax payments.

Although the clubs classify the girls as self-employed, whether that's legally valid is very dubious at best. In general, tax law requires that to be classified as self-employed, only the result of the services provided can be specified and not the methods used to accomplish it. As such, the clubs have a potential problem if they specify work hours, price rates, specific services to be provided etc. etc. There's plenty of similar examples where people classified as self-employed were found by the courts to be disguised employees.

[webpunter]

But there are now records detailing everyone who was at the club last night. What if they get leaked?

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