Sales of Far Eastern Cars in the UK

[Vice Admiral]

In the 1970s, a voluntary agreement was negotiated between the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders and the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association limiting Japanese car sales in Britain to roughly 10% to 11% of the UK new car market.

How times change.

According to Google AI, cars from China, Japan and South Korea now account for around 38% of the cars sold in the UK:
German Brands: 30-33%
Chinese Brands: 14.2%
Japanese Brands: 13.2%
South Korean Brands: 10% to 12%
British-Heritage Brands: 8-9%
(The remaining share is divided among French brands such as Peugeot, Renault, and Citroën and US-owned brands like Ford.)

But we’ve only seen the start of the Chinese invasion.

Last month, someone calling himself Agent_Kozak compiled a list of over 30 car brands (23 with links, and a further 8 without) that are due to come soon to the UK:
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A few are “returners” (including Mitsubishi and Jensen), but the vast majority are Chinese brands new to this country.  There are going to be a lot of unfamiliar car-names on Britain’s streets over the next few years.

Personally, I’ve never got over the disappearance from British roads of the Perodua Nippa, a classic of its kind:
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[PilotMan]

I think a fair amount of the UK's buying habits are based on brand familiarity, reputation and provenance. A lot of our everyday purchases were based on these factors too, but I think less so over time.

Over recent decades, with the influx of cars from Japan and then Korea, home appliances and TV's with unfamiliar names, especially smaller tech products that you can buy from Amazon etc., we have grown accustomed to seeing new names, and tend to pre-judge them less.

Independent reviews on social media also help to allay fears we might have had buying an unfamiliar brand.

For some brand prestige means that, even if a product was without superior and better value than their favourite brand, they would still never buy it. I bought a tractor and an excavator directly from China. The total landed cost was less than 50% of buying the equivalent Kubota machines.

The Chinese are coming not only with cars, but with lots of stuff, and this isn't a new plan, it's been in the works since at least the late 90's.

[Mr Garmin]

I'm a petrol head and as a youngster in the 70's I could tell you the make and model of most cars on the road just from looking at the shape of the tail light.  Some I could identify from the sound of the engine/gearbox combination without seeing the car.

Now, with the majority of new cars on the road, I couldn't even tell the manufacturer let alone the name of the model.

[threechilliman]

I'm a petrol head and as a youngster in the 70's I could tell you the make and model of most cars on the road just from looking at the shape of the tail light.  Some I could identify from the sound of the engine/gearbox combination without seeing the car.

Now, with the majority of new cars on the road, I couldn't even tell the manufacturer let alone the name of the model.

Similar, but my era was the 80's and beyond. Even with the new brands I've familiarised myself with most of them, though not necessarily the individual model.

[PilotMan]

I'm a petrol head and as a youngster in the 70's I could tell you the make and model of most cars on the road just from looking at the shape of the tail light.  Some I could identify from the sound of the engine/gearbox combination without seeing the car.

Now, with the majority of new cars on the road, I couldn't even tell the manufacturer let alone the name of the model.

I could always tell an old school Volvo, they made a whistling noise.

[Massagemanmr]

Wait until you see BYD and what they are bringing to the table it is seriously competitive.

Unless European governments get involved the Chinese will kill the car industry Same way they killed the steel Industry

[Vice Admiral]

I'm a petrol head and as a youngster in the 70's I could tell you the make and model of most cars on the road just from looking at the shape of the tail light.  Some I could identify from the sound of the engine/gearbox combination without seeing the car.

Now, with the majority of new cars on the road, I couldn't even tell the manufacturer let alone the name of the model.

Yes, in the old days I too could identify almost every car from quite a small bit of it – but identifying cars "from the sound of the engine/gearbox combination"?  Now that is seriously impressive!

As for today's cars, I don't think it's so much that one has lost interest in "car-spotting", which I still sort of do on, erm, auto-pilot.  It's more that if you took a badge off most SUV's and put it on another, no-one would notice the difference.  A lot of electric cars are also a bit cloney.  Some BYD's, for example, owe a debt to Tesla.

The Polestar 2 looks like a proper car, however.  I'm not 100% sure about the tail-lights, but you could spot a Polestar 2 in a snowstorm.

[berksboy]

I could always tell an old school Volvo, they made a whistling noise.

I believe that come from the gap between the bonnet and grill.

[Mr Garmin]

Yes, in the old days I too could identify almost every car from quite a small bit of it – but identifying cars "from the sound of the engine/gearbox combination"?  Now that is seriously impressive!

As for today's cars, I don't think it's so much that one has lost interest in "car-spotting", which I still sort of do on, erm, auto-pilot.  It's more that if you took a badge off most SUV's and put it on another, no-one would notice the difference.  A lot of electric cars are also a bit cloney.  Some BYD's, for example, owe a debt to Tesla.

The Polestar 2 looks like a proper car, however.  I'm not 100% sure about the tail-lights, but you could spot a Polestar 2 in a snowstorm.

Occasionally you do see a car that's lost it's badges and it could be from any manufacturer in the world.

[Mr Garmin]

Wait until you see BYD and what they are bringing to the table it is seriously competitive.

Unless European governments get involved the Chinese will kill the car industry Same way they killed the steel Industry

Chinese manufacturing is often heavily subsidised making anything made in the west uncompetitive.  The reason this is being deliberately allowed by the people that we task with stopping it is a subject for the politics thread.

[catweazle]

Deleted,  wrong thread

[worstnameever]

A lot of people aren't buying the Chinese EV's they are leasing them. the secondhand value of the first wave is tempting. 

[Jonestown]

A lot of people aren't buying the Chinese EV's they are leasing them. the secondhand value of the first wave is tempting.

I had to call-out the AA a while back, chatting to three guy he said that the car he gets the most call outs for is the MG, and it’s always electrical or software issues.

[flatcap]

I worked in the industry as a design engineer for 25 years and have 10 years experience of working with and sometimes for Chinese companies. The Chinese government has had a clear strategy to lead in EVs for a well over a decade. They've been pumping billions if not trillions into R&D though their universities, they're churning out tens of thousands of graduates, Ph.D's and technicians. they've set up design and test centres throughout Europe and paid good money to tempt experienced western engineers to work for them and help them adapt to EU / US markets, and they've built whole industries to supply just about everything that goes into a modern car. 10 years ago I would have said they still had a lot of catching up to do to be on a par with mainstream western manufacturers, but now they're pretty much as good and in five years will be the world leaders unless something changes dramatically (at high volume, low and medium spec - not talking about specialist performance or niches). The hours and the effort they put in and the hunger to develop is unbelievable to see. I would personally prefer to be keeping these industries local to us, but on a professional level I have to acknowledge the effort and progress coming out of China.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

And all the Ladies they produce to send to us too:)_

Who can make more here, then they can there it seems?..

[Vice Admiral]

Today’s Times informs us that in the five months January–May 2026, the Jaecoo 7, with 20,695 sales, has been the third best-selling car in the UK – ahead of the Nissan Qashqai (4th) and Vauxhall Corsa (5th).  The Ford Puma is 1st and the Kia Sportage 2nd.

“Across Chery’s brands, which include Jaecoo and Omoda,” says the Times, “the Chinese manufacturer has sold 57,000 cars this year. That means it is outselling by some margin both the previous leading Chinese raiders BYD and Shanghai Automotive’s MG brand.”

The Chery group is also comfortably outselling Ford (which has sold 48,000 cars in the UK this year), Toyota and Nissan.

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[Pillowtalk]

I worked in the industry as a design engineer for 25 years and have 10 years experience of working with and sometimes for Chinese companies. The Chinese government has had a clear strategy to lead in EVs for a well over a decade. They've been pumping billions if not trillions into R&D though their universities, they're churning out tens of thousands of graduates, Ph.D's and technicians. they've set up design and test centres throughout Europe and paid good money to tempt experienced western engineers to work for them and help them adapt to EU / US markets, and they've built whole industries to supply just about everything that goes into a modern car. 10 years ago I would have said they still had a lot of catching up to do to be on a par with mainstream western manufacturers, but now they're pretty much as good and in five years will be the world leaders unless something changes dramatically (at high volume, low and medium spec - not talking about specialist performance or niches). The hours and the effort they put in and the hunger to develop is unbelievable to see. I would personally prefer to be keeping these industries local to us, but on a professional level I have to acknowledge the effort and progress coming out of China.

and you can multiply this experience across many other industries too. The future is China!

[PilotMan]

and you can multiply this experience across many other industries too. The future is China!

That's why the Americans are shitting themselves.

I see comments about it on many YouTube videos, referring to imported Chinese products, Chinese slave labour, human rights abuses. The demise of Made in USA.

MAGA - too late already.

[Mr Garmin]

MAGA - too late already.

Little bit of politics there for you.

©Ben Elton

[DastardlyDick]

I'm a petrol head and as a youngster in the 70's I could tell you the make and model of most cars on the road just from looking at the shape of the tail light.  Some I could identify from the sound of the engine/gearbox combination without seeing the car.

Now, with the majority of new cars on the road, I couldn't even tell the manufacturer let alone the name of the model.

That's not surprising given the reduction in marques over the last few decades - Renault, Dacia and Nissan increasingly use the same base to produce "different" models, as do VAG, which is VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda. Then you have PSA who make Peugot and Ciroen.

[PilotMan]

, as do VAG, which is VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda.

You missed Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti

[george r]

That's not surprising given the reduction in marques over the last few decades - Renault, Dacia and Nissan increasingly use the same base to produce "different" models, as do VAG, which is VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda. Then you have PSA who make Peugot and Ciroen.

psa now under the stellantis umbrella , who also own fiat vauxhall alfa romeo jeep and Maserati 

[Mr Garmin]

The Mini & BMW 1 Series share the same platform and look completely different and both can be easily identified (even if the BMW is just a smaller version of almost all the other cars in the group)

So platform sharing isn't the reason that many cars look basically the same.

[PilotMan]

Even different manufacturers share platforms, Ford KA and Fiat 500, Toyota GR Supra & BMW Z4.

[PilotMan]

Mercedes sales dropping like a stone, whilst BYD is soaring.



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[Samg1984]

Had an MG4 for the last year and a half, no issues other than tyres and an annoying rattle. Did everything I've asked of it and I'm not gentle in any way with the car. Not sure what to replace it with as most brands have issues which are inherent in their cars, be it engine issues, material issues, general quality issues. It is the future, how we continue is dependent on how quickly we embrace it or get left behind in more ways than one.

[Massagemanmr]

The far east cars have some serious tech and will probably eventually over take the eastern cars

[Vice Admiral]

The far east cars have some serious tech and will probably eventually over take the eastern cars

What's the difference between a "far east" car and an "eastern" car?

The thought made me wonder about what the car industry in the Middle East might be like – and indeed whether Iran has much of a car industry.

Google AI was on hand to inform me that Iran has one of the largest automotive industries in Asia, dominated by two state-backed manufacturers: Iran Khodro (IKCO) and Saipa.

The information continues:  “The Iranian car landscape is driven by a few prominent models: IKCO Tara, a modern compact sedan based on the modified platform of the Peugeot 301; IKCO Samand, known as Iran's 'national car', introduced in 2005 as a replacement for the older Paykan, IKCO Dena & Soren; popular mid-size sedans built on older Peugeot 405 architectures; the Saipa Shahin, a compact sedan built on a modified Toyota Yaris platform; and the Saipa Tiba, Saina & Quick, affordable, budget-friendly hatchbacks and sedans built on Saipa's localized platforms."

Who knew?

I think I might get myself an IKCO Samand.  It would do wonders for my image on the roads of south Hampshire.

Here’s a photo.


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[PilotMan]

"Western" car manufacturers often sell their older platforms to emerging economies. They usually do it when the current platform can no longer meet updated European standards.

The Italians licensed the old Fiat 124 to the Russians and it became the Lada Riva, it was also licensed to the Indian company Premier and it became the 118NE.

The Morris Oxford was sold to Hindustan Motors in Indian and it became the Hindustan Ambassador, where it remained in production for over 50 years.

Skoda (part of the VW group) built their Exeo model, which was a rebadged older Audi A4 (also part of the VW group).

[Vice Admiral]

"Western" car manufacturers often sell their older platforms to emerging economies. They usually do it when the current platform can no longer meet updated European standards.

The Italians licensed the old Fiat 124 to the Russians and it became the Lada Riva, it was also licensed to the Indian company Premier and it became the 118NE.

The Morris Oxford was sold to Hindustan Motors in Indian and it became the Hindustan Ambassador, where it remained in production for over 50 years.

Skoda (part of the VW group) built their Exeo model, which was a rebadged older Audi A4 (also part of the VW group).

Meanwhile, back to the 1970s there were some pretty dodgy "all-commie" cars available in the UK.

A friend of mine had a Wartburg Knight (East Germany), which indeed I came close to buying off him after he “traded up” to a Skoda 110R coupé (Czechoslovakia).

Later I briefly toyed with the idea of buying a Moskvich 1500 (USSR) from new, tempted in part by its surprisingly good acceleration.  Its reliability record was less tempting, however, so I went Japanese instead!

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[hairdownthere]

"Western" car manufacturers often sell their older platforms to emerging economies. They usually do it when the current platform can no longer meet updated European standards.

The Italians licensed the old Fiat 124 to the Russians and it became the Lada Riva, it was also licensed to the Indian company Premier and it became the 118NE.

The Morris Oxford was sold to Hindustan Motors in Indian and it became the Hindustan Ambassador, where it remained in production for over 50 years.

Skoda (part of the VW group) built their Exeo model, which was a rebadged older Audi A4 (also part of the VW group).

The Exeo was actually SEAT, of course part of the VW Group

[Vice Admiral]

According to Jeremy Clarkson (Sunday Times Magazine, 5 July) there are currently 109 different companies making cars in China – and the new factory of BYD (Build Your Dreams) is bigger than the city of San Francisco, covering an area of 50 square miles and producing a car every 60 seconds.

Meanwhile, in yesterday’s Sunday Times Business & Money section there was a piece on the launch of BYD’s new luxury brand, Denza (which means “You fly high”).  Here is a short extract:
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For decades, Asian car brands have tried to drive upmarket in Europe — and failed. Every attempt at a new marque — Lexus (from Toyota), Acura (Honda), Genesis (Hyundai), Infiniti (Nissan) — has stalled. Stella Li, CEO of BYD Automobiles, thinks she can be the first to succeed.

Li launched six new Denza models at the festival and also showed off BYD’s Yangwang U9 Xtreme hypercar, the fastest in the world, which accelerates from zero to 100km/h in less than two seconds and tops out at 308mph. If you have a few million pounds to spare and ask her nicely, she will sell you one.

Among the Denza models revealed were the £142,000 Z sports coupe (£159,000 for the convertible; the £70,000 4×4 Bao 5, a rival to the Land Rover Defender; and the £90,000 four-door Z9GT.  The Z9GT is available to order in Britain now and the other models will go on sale in the autumn.  Li assured me that the Z sports coupe will race from zero to 60mph in 2.25 seconds and can hit 186mph.
_____________________

On balance I think I’ll be going for the Z Sports Coupe (top picture below).  I reckon 0-60 mph in 2.25 seconds probably represents enough acceleration for the overtaking lane of the M27 – while my driving the Yangwang U9 Xtreme hypercar (second picture) around the roads of South Hampshire might look a bit ostentatious.  Let it never be said that the Vice Admiral is a show-off.


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[Jonestown]

Not sure that Lexus can be classed as a failure, a niche range for sure so sales figures are never going to be astronomical.

[Vice Admiral]

Not sure that Lexus can be classed as a failure, a niche range for sure so sales figures are never going to be astronomical.

The inclusion of Lexus surprised me too.  The other brands named have never made a significant dent in the UK market (indeed I don't think Acura cars were even sold here), but Lexus is a well-established and well-respected brand.

But I suppose the test of whether a "non-traditional" upmarket brand like Lexus is truly competing with the old brands is whether, as the years pass, there are as many of its cars on the roads as there are BMW's and Mercedes.

For comparison, consider how Kia is now second only to Volkswagen in the mass-market sector in the UK – and above Ford – while less than 40 years ago the Kia Pride (below) was pretty well the only Kia you saw on British roads.


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[Watts.E.Dunn]

Seen some of the new AUDI's recenlty they look like their from another dimension!..

[Vice Admiral]

Since the once proudly Swedish company Volvo is now wholly owned by the Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, with 40% to 50% of its cars manufactured in Chengdu, Daqing, and Taizhou, it's reasonable to include this post in a thread about cars from the Far East.

In yesterday’s Sunday Times magazine Jeremy Clarkson reviews the Volvo ES90 – under the heading “The stupidest car I’ve driven” – and informs us that “the brain used to control everything is a dual Nvidia Drive AGX Orin processor, capable of doing 508 trillion calculations a second”.   In figures, that’s 508,000,000,000,000.  A lorra, lorra calculations.  (And that’s a fact, not a Clarkson exaggeration.  I checked it on Google AI.)

I simply can’t get my head round that.  The Vice Admiral has now and been complimented on the quantity and quality of his little grey cells, but even on a good day I can only do four to five billion calculations a second.

It’s, erm, mind-boggling.

And scary.

[timsussex]

looking at new cars - MG EV £28k list,  beat them down to £23k and 0% finance so cheaper than a 6 month old one at £19k
A bit plastic inside and has a reputation for being poorly built - but has a 7 year/80k  warranty while even VW is  only 3 years

Sure it is lightweight but miles/kW (=mpg) is 10% better than European equivalents and I wonder if as the legacy brands reduce weight to improve efficiency their rep will suffer

As an EV it performs so much better in stop/start traffic - which is all you get around here.
5 miles/kW means 1.6p per mile for fuel as opposed to over 25 per mile for petrol at 28mpg 

[PilotMan]

I did a quick check on the fuel / electric use on my Disco Hybrid P270e.

Over my ownership, more than half of my mileage has been done on electric. That's because a lot of my journeys are less than the 38 mile (official) range.

[Vice Admiral]

A report in yesterday’s Times focused on the ever-increasing sales of Chinese cars in Britain. 

In August the Chinese brands took nearly 21 per cent of the UK market. That's more than all the brands in the mighty Volkswagen group (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda and Seat / Cupra).

Jaecoo, Omoda and Chery alone accounted for 9 per cent of UK sales – only just short of the market share of all the Stellantis brands (Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall, Fiat and Jeep).

Where does this end?  Surely with the marginalisation – or disappearance – of some of the brands that have been dominant on British roads over the past half-century.

Already, once-familiar brands such as Saab (wholly defunct), Daihatsu, Proton, Daewoo / Chevrolet and Perodua have stopped being sold in the UK over the past two decades or so.  More are likely to follow.  A report on 20 September suggested that the VW group is likely to close down Seat, although Cupra, the more upmarket sister-brand, will continue.

Perodua, to be fair, never made a big dent in the UK market – although you could make a dent in their biscuit-tins-on-wheels cars just by leaning on them.  (Hands up anyone who ever owned a Perodua Nippa?)  Some of the firm's current cars, however, are pretty decent-looking.

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[maxQ]

I worked in the industry as a design engineer for 25 years and have 10 years experience of working with and sometimes for Chinese companies. The Chinese government has had a clear strategy to lead in EVs for a well over a decade.

LOL the fools, if they had any sense they would have known fuel cells were the future

[Punting2022]

Net zero opened this route up. The fall of JLR is becasue people are buying these cheap stuff.
Ruined the business model. I would always stick to ICE

[Blackpool Rock]

LOL the fools, if they had any sense they would have known fuel cells were the future

Yeah the Chinese knew they couldn't compete building ICE cars so went for something different, basically they took a step back and saw that EV's were the future so jumped on board and invested in the motors and battery tech

They are set to do what the japs did in the early 80's

I do know some Kia owners who are now singing their praises, I believe Kia and Hyundai are the same group 

[m4rmite]

Net zero opened this route up. The fall of JLR is becasue people are buying these cheap stuff.
Ruined the business model. I would always stick to ICE

Not because we can't all afford 70k+ jlr vehicles?

[PilotMan]

The fall of JLR is becasue people are buying these cheap stuff.
Ruined the business model.

Totally incorrect.

JR'S business model is a premium brand, they're not aiming to compete in the budget sector.

JLR has suffered from the turndown in the Chinese domestic economy and sales there, the 2025 cyber attack, Trump's Tariffs, and finally a fire at a component supplier in Norway.

The Chinese brands are taking sales from all the mid and low market brands, like Fiat, Peugeot, Vauxhall, Ford, Nissan.

[PilotMan]

Not because we can't all afford 70k+ jlr vehicles?

Aside from the issues with not being able to build cars, they don't have a problem with sales volume in the UK.

They can sell everything they make for the UK market, without a problem. There's plenty of people who can afford to buy them.

The influx of cheap Chinese vehicles doesn't affect their UK sales.

[maxQ]

Yeah the Chinese knew they couldn't compete building ICE cars so went for something different, basically they took a step back and saw that EV's were the future so jumped on board and invested in the motors and battery tech

Added to that they have an advantage with rare earths, so their electric motors are probably cheaper, also they import large amounts of oil, the current problems in the Middle East would have hit them harder, but they promoted EVs and built an electric high speed rail network. Unlike the UK/Europe the Chinese want to have an industrial economy, so they are constantly trying to push down the price of electricity, so again EVs make sense for them

I do know some Kia owners who are now singing their praises, I believe Kia and Hyundai are the same group 

Owned by the same people buy ran as completely separate companies, or so they claim. like the Chinese the Koreans have to import large amounts of oil, so they were always going to want EVs

[Vice Admiral]

September car sales in the UK by brand:

1.   Volkswagen (25,972)
2.   BYD (20,140)
3.   Kia (18,399)
4.   MG (18,026)
5.   Audi (16,721)
6.   Tesla (15,875)
7.   BMW (15,617)
8.   Mercedes (15,571)
9.   Jaecoo (15,055)
10.  Toyota (13,947)
11.  Skoda (13,371)
12.  Volvo (12,235)

I have emboldened the Chinese firms (in the case of Volvo, Chinese-owned).

Where is Ford?  Where is Vauxhall?  Where are Peugeot, Renault and Nissan?

(Where, indeed, are Riley, Hillman and Austin?)

[Davey Dykes]

Vauxhall is now owned by PSA I think they're called, Peugeot / Citroën parent group.

Not sure about anyone else but I'm seeing the new Renault 5s all over the place. Maybe because the styling makes you notice them and the Chinese 1s are more beige than a 1974 Morris Marina or Austin Maxi.

[threechilliman]

Vauxhall is now owned by PSA I think they're called, Peugeot / Citroën parent group.

Not sure about anyone else but I'm seeing the new Renault 5s all over the place. Maybe because the styling makes you notice them and the Chinese 1s are more beige than a 1974 Morris Marina or Austin Maxi.

Yep, a lot if the Chinese cars all look the same, many are related. Very bland looks and poorly proportioned in a lot of cases.

[timsussex]

Yep, a lot if the Chinese cars all look the same, many are related. Very bland looks and poorly proportioned in a lot of cases.

To be fair that could be applied to most car designs esp EVs where without a radiator no grill is needed so less things to design, add on strict Euro safety requirements esp pedestrian safety

The larger Chinese SUVs could easily pass for Range Rovers - from the side at least  and several have European designers & MG has design  based in the UK