Turning cash in to online payment

[Mr Garmin]

If I were to do this*, I'd simply pocket the cash and use it as a punting pot and make a transfer from my bank to hers abroad.  There's absolutely no connection with the cash and if questioned I'd say that I was sending a gift to my friend that I met while on holiday in Poland.

Many suckers men regularly send large sums of money to girls in Thailand that they met while mongering and think that she's their girlfriend.

*I wouldn't BTW

[puntingking]

They can tell you they have reasonable grounds whether or not they have but by that time they've got your cash, nothing is proved on the spot and you have to argue the point at a later date to get it back, but that isn't the point I'm making. I'm just pointing out the fact in law the police can seize £1000 cash or over.

Far better the OP is aware of all the possibilities of it going wrong no matter how likely or unlikely.

If I were to do this*, I'd simply pocket the cash and use it as a punting pot and make a transfer from my bank to hers abroad.  There's absolutely no connection with the cash and if questioned I'd say that I was sending a gift to my friend that I met while on holiday in Poland.

Many suckers men regularly send large sums of money to girls in Thailand that they met while mongering and think that she's their girlfriend.

*I wouldn't BTW

It is a bad state of affairs that law abiding citizens have to think their actions before they do anything 


The good people are being treated as if they were the bad ones, while the bad people are being treated as if they are the good ones - so it seems   

[koshkaj]

You're well out of it, OP.

Some great advice here and i wouldn't even consider it.

Wester Union and so on is the way for her to go.

[Massage Bloke]

It is a bad state of affairs that law abiding citizens have to think their actions before they do anything 


The good people are being treated as if they were the bad ones, while the bad people are being treated as if they are the good ones - so it seems   

The fact that the law abiding OP, was thinking of laundering money for a Chinese sex worker,  shows why the banks feel the need to have such rules.

[Blackpool Rock]

You're well out of it, OP.

Some great advice here and i wouldn't even consider it.

Wester Union and so on is the way for her to go.

If the girl uses Western Union / similar then she'll have to pay fees plus have the risk of being mugged on her way there or questioned about where the money has come from although i'm guessing they will already know it's likely to be dodgy money and don't give a fuck anyway 

She's using the OP to launder her money for free and switching all the risk from her to him 
Glad he seems to have seen sense and isn't going to do it, looks like one of those questions that you already know the answer to but ask anyway just to gauge or confirm your thoughts / feelings on something.

That is unless he's an Askhole.................  ie someone who asks numerous people the same question and gets the same answer from everyone but then goes and does the opposite anyway 

[myothernameis]

If you were to do this, you will leave a digital trail, which cant be hidden

[Doc Holliday]

That's pointless. People transfer money abroad all the time and often the amount are round numbers. Unless the connection to cash is known or the destination account is flagged there's zero chance of it being highlighted as ML. Of flagged it will be a check the op is not being scammed.
(It is ML but only if the full cash to transfer is exposed to authorities)

In hindsight (and in relation to this specific example) I would agree 

[Doc Holliday]

In other words - they need "reasonable grounds to suspect" not just a "hunch" or "gut feeling".
 

They can tell you they have reasonable grounds whether or not they have but by that time they've got your cash, nothing is proved on the spot and you have to argue the point at a later date to get it back, but that isn't the point I'm making.

Indeed I could give many examples. This is a recent one.

A friend of my daughter's arrived one evening in tears. Her car had been stopped by police and she was questioned about where she was driving from and to etc and gave a legitimate answer. He then said the car smelt of cannabis. It did not. He asked was she a cannabis user. She said no.

He said under PACE he had grounds to conduct a stop and search because she was driving in an area with a high level of drug crime and that there was information on the police system that her car had been linked with drug supply. Also the car smelt of cannabis.

He did not however proceed to a full search, but warned her that her car reg would remain flagged and she may find herself stopped again. He asked did she want a copy of the record of stop and search and fortunately she said yes as it confirmed the reasons for the S&S

She was upset. I was furious. The next day I accompanied her to the Police Station. Was told her car reg was not flagged on the system either historically or as a result of the night before and that the officer concerned would be contacted. Within an hour he phoned and rather sheepishly apologised.

He claimed he thought she was driving under the influence of cannabis and wanted to warn her (as a deterrent) that she could be stopped again and prosecuted. He admitted her car was not flagged nor ever had been.

I wanted to pursue it. She just wanted it to go away so we left it.

[daviemac]

Indeed I could give many examples. This is a recent one.

There's loads of instances of police overstepping their powers, searching people under the terrorist act despite not suspecting them of actually being a terrorist and as you say making things up on a traffic stop.

There's a firm of solicitors who make a living out of claims against the police for abuse of power etc.

To think that the police would actually have to show suspicion at the time is very naive, not being able or willing to give an adequate explanation would be suspicion enough and saying it was from an escort more than enough. 

[paul_tall_]

The fact that the law abiding OP, was thinking of laundering money for a Chinese sex worker,  shows why the banks feel the need to have such rules.

Did he actually say she was Chinese ?
Could quite easily be an honest request but as others have stated too risky.

[shooter]

Did he actually say she was Chinese ?
Could quite easily be an honest request but as others have stated too risky.

No, he didnt state the nationality, other than she wanted to take it "back home"

[puntingking]

There's loads of instances of police overstepping their powers, searching people under the terrorist act despite not suspecting them of actually being a terrorist and as you say making things up on a traffic stop.

There's a firm of solicitors who make a living out of claims against the police for abuse of power etc.

To think that the police would actually have to show suspicion at the time is very naive, not being able or willing to give an adequate explanation would be suspicion enough and saying it was from an escort more than enough.

If they search someone or their car unlawfully - would any evidence they find whereas it may incriminate the person who is being searched be inadmissible evidence then?   

If not, then my guess is that it would be easier work for them to just pick people at random to do intimate searches (even if they have no reasonable suspicion) as some people they will get lucky and find something on them that would be incriminating for them 

[puntingking]

I wanted to pursue it. She just wanted it to go away so we left it.

that is a shame and yet they want the public to trust them, this is not going to lead the public to trust them. British people trust for any authority figure seems like it is at an all time low.

[daviemac]

If they search someone or their car unlawfully - would any evidence they find whereas it may incriminate the person who is being searched be inadmissible evidence then?   

If not, then my guess is that it would be easier work for them to just pick people at random to do intimate searches (even if they have no reasonable suspicion) as some people they will get lucky and find something on them that would be incriminating for them 

Ask the police or a solicitor, it has nothing to do with this thread.

The OP was thinking about handling over £1000 cash for a service provider, one of this issues with that is police can, and have, seized money over the £1000 limit they have the power to seize. That is a fact.

[Doc Holliday]

that is a shame and yet they want the public to trust them, this is not going to lead the public to trust them. British people trust for any authority figure seems like it is at an all time low.

I have a fair bit of experience interacting with the police across my lifetime, be it through my working life (including voluntary) and also socially. I found that when it was good it was excellent and when it was bad it was horrendous. There was often no middle ground.

I have had some instances where individual officers have gone above and beyond .. (a couple remarkably so). Sadly others who either couldn't give a toss to avoid having to do any work and those who are stereo-typically hooked on the 'power'.

It is not an easy job and I do have some sympathy, but the bad apples tend to stand out more than the good ones in the eyes of the public.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Davie, do you know where under leglisation the sezie 1000 cash is refered to please?.

[myothernameis]

Davie, do you know where under leglisation the sezie 1000 cash is refered to please?.

Wonder if it comes under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (POCA)

[daviemac]

Davie, do you know where under leglisation the sezie 1000 cash is refered to please?.

I think it comes under the proceeds of crime act and or police and criminal evidence act but if you check the links I posted earlier, especially the 'black belt barrister' yuotube video, he explains the legalities of it. He is a fully qualified KC BTW.

He's commenting on a video where the police are seizing cash

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

[RandomGuy99]

But if escorting isn't illegal then they wouldn't be able to seize the money under proceeds of crime?

She could say it's a month's takings from doing massages.

[puntingking]

But if escorting isn't illegal then they wouldn't be able to seize the money under proceeds of crime?

She could say it's a month's takings from doing massages.

good point, maybe Doc could answer as he is possibly our most intelligent member of this site 

[scutty brown]

But if escorting isn't illegal then they wouldn't be able to seize the money under proceeds of crime?

She could say it's a month's takings from doing massages.

But escorting as a job is illegal if the girl is here on a tourist or student visa, or overstayed a visa, or is here on a working visa (as it wouldn't be granted for prostitution, which is not regarded as a key - or even valid - job). Doubt it would be granted for massage either, unless the girl was sponsored by a registered business and she had medical qualifications.

[RandomGuy99]

But escorting as a job is illegal if the girl is here on a tourist or student visa, or overstayed a visa, or is here on a working visa (as it wouldn't be granted for prostitution, which is not regarded as a key - or even valid - job). Doubt it would be granted for massage either, unless the girl was sponsored by a registered business and she had medical qualifications.

so the crime is not complying with the conditions of their visa

[Doc Holliday]

good point, maybe Doc could answer as he is possibly our most intelligent member of this site 

FFS fella. I most certainly am not.

As scutty says, the legality of prostitution is complex, but it matters not at the point of seizure. The police can seize it under POCA and PACE if they are suspicious. This then allows them 48 hours to investigate further. If it is found to not be part of criminal activity it will be returned.

"S.295 POCA allows a constable to detain the cash for an initial period of 48 hours whilst he continues to have reasonable grounds for their suspicion. Thereafter, continued detention may be authorised by a Magistrate’s Court, for periods of up to 3 months at a time, up to a maximum of 2 years. There is a strict time limit for this, no more than 48 hours can elapse between the point of seizure and the conclusion of the first hearing. If the hearing has not been concluded within 48 hours the cash must be returned unless it is also being detained under s. 22 PACE (evidence in criminal proceedings)."

EDIT forgot link External Link/Members Only

[daviemac]

But if escorting isn't illegal then they wouldn't be able to seize the money under proceeds of crime?

She could say it's a month's takings from doing massages.

Escorting isn't, but pimping is. Why would a man be banking money that 'belongs' to an escort, especially one who isn't British.     It's enough for them to be suspicious of sex trafficking, controlling prostitution for gain etc.

It doesn't alter the fact the police can seize cash and keep it until you show it's legal so is something the OP needs to be aware of.

The legalities of it is not the point of this thread, the point of this thread is what issues the OP might face if banking cash on behalf of a sex worker.

so the crime is not complying with the conditions of their visa

The whole point is there doesn't need to be a crime just suspicion and they've got the cash while it's sorted out.

She could say it's a month's takings from doing massages.

She isn't the one they'd be taking the money off, it would be the OP and where it's from and is legit is something they would both have to convince the police of.

[Blackpool Rock]

so the crime is not complying with the conditions of their visa

I guess they'd also be asked for proof that tax had been paid on "earnings" so you can add tax evasion too

[90125]

Crikey this Topic has grown arms and legs.

[Strawberry]

Just echoing the information in the posts by Doc H, Davie, Scutty - which is what I was alluding to in my post of a few days ago. Paying for sex, being paid for sex is not illegal BUT there are many legal grey areas around the activity. AS I understand it answering the phone, arranging bookings for another SP could be classed as controlling their prostitution, more than one SP at the same premises even on different days = brothel and who ever is in charge of, or involved in that arrangement could be at risk of prosecution if the police ever became interested. Equally there are also many myths around what can be construed as control for gain.

[Massage Bloke]

This case from today's KentOnline includes Chinese sex workers sending money back home.

I thought of OP, when I read it.

OP, if you are till around, just don't be tempted to get involved with anything to do with Chinese sex workers, beyond being a punter.

External Link/Members Only

[Doc Holliday]

Crikey this Topic has grown arms and legs.

  Indeed

Is that a knock at the door I hear?

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Massage Bloke]

But if escorting isn't illegal then they wouldn't be able to seize the money under proceeds of crime?

She could say it's a month's takings from doing massages.

Read the KentOnline article I posted, for a reality check, when it comes to Chinese operations.

[scutty brown]

Indeed

Is that a knock at the door I hear?

Hidden Image/Members Only

Pale blue door? Does that mean he lives on the Sandringham estate? Is Andy his next door neighbour?

[Mr Garmin]

The SP in question must really trust the OP.  He could simply take the cash and never be seen again.

[Jonestown]

The SP in question must really trust the OP.  He could simply take the cash and never be seen again.

She would probably make it conditional that she accompanied him to pay it in and make the transfer.

[snaitram99]

Read the KentOnline article I posted, for a reality check, when it comes to Chinese operations.

You have to subscribe or accept personalised ads to read it, as with most newspaper sites now.

Can you give us a brief outline of what it said?

[Massage Bloke]

You have to subscribe or accept personalised ads to read it, as with most newspaper sites now.

Can you give us a brief outline of what it said?

The article isn't behind a pay wall.

Click the link, start reading, but you have to then click on "Continue Reading" which is just above the comment.

I wouldn't post a link that was behind a pay wall. 

[Strawberry]

You have to subscribe or accept personalised ads to read it, as with most newspaper sites now.

Can you give us a brief outline of what it said?

I have been able to read it without subscribing, just scrollled past any adverts.

[Massage Bloke]

I have been able to read it without subscribing, just scrollled past any adverts.

I think he is based in Wales. Perhaps Welsh IPs are banned!  And he will need to get a VPN... 

[scutty brown]

The article isn't behind a pay wall.

Click the link, start reading, but you have to then click on "Continue Reading" which is just above the comment.

I wouldn't post a link that was behind a pay wall. 

it's not a paywall
it is objecting to an advert blocker in your browser. Try viewing it in another browser which doesn't have a blocker installed

[Massage Bloke]

it's not a paywall
it is objecting to an advert blocker in your browser. Try viewing it in another browser which doesn't have a blocker installed

Oh, I see, thanks for that. 

[puntingking]

FFS fella. I most certainly am not.

 

[texmex]

I wouldn't allow it to become a regular thing
so I'm not too concerned about the money laundering
aspect....I just don't want to lose my money and a
good SP.

 
Brother, trust me on one thing. You should be concerned about money laundering.
Money Laundering will get you in trouble with law which is only surpassed by actually financing terrorism and paedophilia.

Better to be caught drunk driving by a police officer (who happens to be your wife) while getting a BJ from prossie on illegal drugs, than become involved with money laundering.

[DastardlyDick]

I thought we have innocent till PROVEN guilty, not guilty till you have proven your innocence. 

Except for money - I believe the trigger amount is over £10000 or equivalent.

[daviemac]

Except for money - I believe the trigger amount is over £10000 or equivalent.

That has been shown several times on this thread, including a link from Merseyside police.