World cup 2026

[Blackpool Rock]

Ecuador ahead!!  Fantastic effort.

Which also sees Scotland drop another place to 8th in the 3rd place quali

[timsussex]

So Germany guaranteed of winning their group but commendably decide to field a strong starting 11, I think there were 2 changes which may have been affected by injuries anyway.

Despite this they aren't exactly putting Ecuador to the sword and look quite stale 

I do wonder if the 2nd XI would have had more to play for ?

A good performance might get you into the knockout side where as for the 1st XI a 50:50 challenge might put you out for the tournament

[timsussex]

After Ecuador victory OPTA predicts Scotlands chance of progressing at 7.3%

[Blackpool Rock]

After Ecuador victory OPTA predicts Scotlands chance of progressing at 7.3%

[WARSZAWA16]

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[Blackpool Rock]

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[timsussex]

ah so thats why high boot doesnt apply to Germany

[myothernameis]

We need japan to beat Sweden, who are on 3pts, to help Scotland  chances

A win for Sweden more or less put Scotland  out

[timsussex]

We need japan to beat Sweden, who are on 3pts, to help Scotland  chances

A win for Sweden more or less put Scotland  out

Japan would have to win by 4 goals to help as Sweden have already scored 6 and IIRC goals scored is 3rd determination after points and GD 

talk about grasping at straws 

[timsussex]

Group J looks interesting 

currently Austria second and Algeria is third, both on 3 points, they have to play each other so a draw will see both through but 2nd place plays Spain and 3rd place plays Switzerland 

So if Austria manages to lose they will be third and might fancy Switzerland rather than Spain and eve a 3 -0 defeat will keep them above Scotland  - would be a brave call though

[bigden40]

After Ecuador victory OPTA predicts Scotlands chance of progressing at 7.3%

Doesn’t seem right. 

As of now we need 4 of the following:

Group D - Australia to beat Paraguay
Group G - Belgium to beat New Zealand & Egypt to beat Iran
Group H - Spain to beat Uruguay
Group I - Senegal not to beat Iraq
Group J - Austria to beat Algeria
Group K - DRC not to beat Uzbekistan
Group L - Ghana beat Croatia by 2 or more and a England don’t lose to Panama

D, G, H, and J seem the best bets. I and K seem possible and L unlikely.

[timsussex]

D - a draw suited both et voila

G might happen

H possible

you have forgotten that if level on points and goal difference then goals scored will decide Scotland only scored 1

I a Senegal win or 3 nil loss 0 will  see Scotland down  a place

J Austria need to beat Algeria by 2  - and its another case where a draw suits both

K DRC not to win - possible but not probable - Uzbekistan have already shipped 8 goals

L Croatia are -1 so a 2-0 defeat to Ghana will still leave them ahead of Scotland as they have scored 2

I think Scotland finishes 10th out of 12 third placed sides  with Uruguay & Iran below them

[Blackpool Rock]

Algeria fixing a result with Austria     

Well I also quoted Australia Vs Paraguay which ended as a very dull and boring 0-0 in what's described as a "Lacklustre" affair with very little attacking play 

[Blackpool Rock]

We're at the stage where all teams have now played 2 of their 3 games and Scotland are still placed 2nd of 12 in the 3rd place Qualification table albeit there are 5 teams on 3 points
Some of the teams below them will leapfrog them with a win (assuming they lose against Brazil) and other teams will also finish on 3 points with a draw so this could well come down to goal difference.

Brazil up tonight at 23.00 so we will have a better idea where they stand after that but for the Scotland fans it could be a tense few days if they lose heavily tonight and slip a few places then have to sit and watch as the teams below them play over the next few days all with a chance of overtaking them 

Well I did predict all this a couple of days ago, it's funny as fuck to think all the Scots intently watching various games and hoping for team A to win or lose depending on how it affects them, FFS they would have been cheering the Germans last night 

[bigden40]

Well I did predict all this a couple of days ago, it's funny as fuck to think all the Scots intently watching various games and hoping for team A to win or lose depending on how it affects them, FFS they would have been cheering the Germans last night 

We’re not going through.   

The Scottish way, though, will be that results will be going our way with a few mins to go but Algeria will get a late goal.

[timsussex]

To be fair to our northern friends they did get a crap group thanks to 3 home teams
With 12 groups so you would expect a 1 in 6 chance of avoiding a top ten team alltogether and they get put in a group with the world 5&6 !
So 3rd with 3 points was as much as they could realistically hope for and, in the absence of an unlikely point against the top 2,  progress was always going to require scoring lots of goals against Haiti

[Blackpool Rock]

To be fair to our northern friends they did get a crap group thanks to 3 home teams
With 12 groups so you would expect a 1 in 6 chance of avoiding a top ten team alltogether and they get put in a group with the world 5&6 !
So 3rd with 3 points was as much as they could realistically hope for and, in the absence of an unlikely point against the top 2,  progress was always going to require scoring lots of goals against Haiti

I thought USA; Canada and Mexico are hosting not Brazil; Morocco and Haiti 

Scotland chances now being quoted as 5.49%
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[timsussex]

I thought USA; Canada and Mexico are hosting not Brazil; Morocco and Haiti 

Scotland chances now being quoted as 5.49%
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Hone teams get pref treatment in the draw, and this time there were 3;  normally you put the top 12 teams in one pot and so on for 4 pots then you get one of each strength in each group - not the  5&6 rated teams in one group. The third strongest team in that group will struggle to be in the top 8 of the third place teams

Of course having a home team qualify helps fill stadiums
Do you think its a coincidence that USA (ranked 15th} got Australia (28) Paraguay(37) and Turkey (27) ?
Canada got no-one stronger than 16th + 61 & 62
Mexico got 54, 31 48

If the home teams avoid the stronger teams then they have to go somewhere hence 5&6 th  in one group


 

[Fuzzyduck]

Hone teams get pref treatment in the draw, and this time there were 3;  normally you put the top 12 teams in one pot and so on for 4 pots then you get one of each strength in each group - not the  5&6 rated teams in one group. The third strongest team in that group will struggle to be in the top 8 of the third place teams

I broadly agree with this, although there are 4 more groups this time round and, overall, it's easier to qualify out of the groups. Scotland were just unlucky to be lumped with 2 very good teams but that could have happened in the old format. In the 32-team format, they wouldn't even have been there in the first place.

[bigden40]

I broadly agree with this, although there are 4 more groups this time round and, overall, it's easier to qualify out of the groups. Scotland were just unlucky to be lumped with 2 very good teams but that could have happened in the old format. In the 32-team format, they wouldn't even have been there in the first place.

Although the coulda, shoulda, woulda for Scotland is that we were pish against Haiti, a game we should have looked to win by more than one goal, and didn’t have a shot on target against Morocco despite going 1-0 down after a minute. 

So yeah, bad draw but we should have done better. 

We are plucky qualifiers in the qualifying groups, but play with too much fear in the tournament proper.

[TomTank]

Hone teams get pref treatment in the draw, and this time there were 3;  normally you put the top 12 teams in one pot and so on for 4 pots then you get one of each strength in each group - not the  5&6 rated teams in one group. The third strongest team in that group will struggle to be in the top 8 of the third place teams

Of course having a home team qualify helps fill stadiums
Do you think its a coincidence that USA (ranked 15th} got Australia (28) Paraguay(37) and Turkey (27) ?
Canada got no-one stronger than 16th + 61 & 62
Mexico got 54, 31 48

If the home teams avoid the stronger teams then they have to go somewhere hence 5&6 th  in one group


 

Great analysis Tim.
I think the Scots just have to accept that everyone loves them and their fans, but the Dalglish, Souness, Gemmil, Law quality players aren't being produced anymore.

I do remember when the Scots fans were as bad, if not worse, than the English.
Hopefully at some point we move on from 10 German bombers in the same way the Scots have moved on .... there's a lot of amazing things about English culture, and it would be nice to see more of that than the drunken loutish behaviour we often see ......

[bigden40]

Great analysis Tim.
I think the Scots just have to accept that everyone loves them and their fans, but the Dalglish, Souness, Gemmil, Law quality players aren't being produced anymore.

I do remember when the Scots fans were as bad, if not worse, than the English.
Hopefully at some point we move on from 10 German bombers in the same way the Scots have moved on .... there's a lot of amazing things about English culture, and it would be nice to see more of that than the drunken loutish behaviour we often see ......

There are quality players though. We might not have the depth we once had, but we should be good enough to achieve more. 

Robertson, Tierney, McTominay, Ferguson, McGinn, Christie, Ralston, Souttar and a few others are playing at the highest level, and Billy Gilmour was missing. Even Che Adams has managed to score 15 goals in Serie A but looks utterly hopeless in a Stevie Clarke side.  We still have a few championship standard players fleshing out the squad but not as much as in recent years.

It’s the manager, the tactics and the mentality. Andy Robertson just sounds like a loser in interviews, I think this is indicative of the managers negativity.

[TomTank]

There are quality players though. We might not have the depth we once had, but we should be good enough to achieve more. 

Robertson, Tierney, McTominay, Ferguson, McGinn, Christie, Ralston, Souttar and a few others are playing at the highest level, and Billy Gilmour was missing. Even Che Adams has managed to score 15 goals in Serie A but looks utterly hopeless in a Stevie Clarke side.  We still have a few championship standard players fleshing out the squad but not as much as in recent years.

It’s the manager, the tactics and the mentality. Andy Robertson just sounds like a loser in interviews, I think this is indicative of the managers negativity.

They are good players, but not the top quality needed.
Serie A is not a good indicator these days, and there's only really McGinn who cuts it in the PL, given that Robertson is in the twilight of his career, and, in any case, made to look higher quality by the players that were around him at Liverpool.

[timsussex]

There was a time when there would have been 2 or 3 Scottish players in a GB side  Now ??

Dagleish & co would have been among the top transfers (even if nowhere near todays absolute values) Rice & Anderson  each cost £100+ million   Is  McTominay @ £25 million the most expensive Scot ?  a cursory look couldnt find any other over £5million

[WARSZAWA16]

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[bigden40]

They are good players, but not the top quality needed.
Serie A is not a good indicator these days, and there's only really McGinn who cuts it in the PL, given that Robertson is in the twilight of his career, and, in any case, made to look higher quality by the players that were around him at Liverpool.

I’m not talking about Brazil, Spain, Argentina quality …. we should be competitive at least at a Norway kind of level.

I agree about Robertson, he’s had it, Tierney much more effective.

[Iamforreal]

For Scotland their 2nd match killed them, they should have fought more for a draw, but hey ho, at least they went to the world cup compared with other teams ..see Italy for example...I think they have won it 3 times and now they don't even qualify 

[bigden40]

There was a time when there would have been 2 or 3 Scottish players in a GB side  Now ??

Dagleish & co would have been among the top transfers (even if nowhere near todays absolute values) Rice & Anderson  each cost £100+ million   Is  McTominay @ £25 million the most expensive Scot ?  a cursory look couldnt find any other over £5million

2 or 3?  There was a time there could have been 6 or 7. 

Transfer fees aren’t everything, EPL transfer are ridiculously overpriced, but yes McTominay is the most expensive Scot at £26m, narrowly ahead of Tierney who went to Arsenal for £25 million.  You didn’t look very hard if you could only find a couple over £5 million as there’s at least 20 players that have gone for £10 million plus.  Oli McBurney (returning to EPL with Hull) and Oliver Burke have both close to £20 million though neither was in the squad. Other Scots who exceeded £10 million would include Che Adams, Steven Fletcher, Ross McCormack, Aaron Hickey, Nathan Patterson, Billy Gilmour. 

I imagine Lewis Ferguson will be £20 million plus when he leaves Bologna. The only player coming out of this campaign with any credit tbh.  Hope he goes to the Premiership instead of making a backwards career move to Ibrox

[timsussex]

2 or 3?  There was a time there could have been 6 or 7. 
......

6 or 7 ???   Exactly when would a GB team have had only 4 English Welsh and Northern Ireland players combined ?

(Apart from in your dreams  )

[timsussex]

Interestingly the first three-figure transfer fee was the £100 paid by Aston Villa in 1893 for a Scot (Willie Groves).  The £5,000 mark was first reached in 1922 when Falkirk ! paid that amount for West Ham United's Syd Puddefoot,

After that just about the only notable Scot in the ever increasing transfer records  was Denis Law

Money isnt everything but its probably the nearest we will get to an independent measurent of worth and I would venture that every member of Englands squad would fetch more than McTominay - although I accept that ManU probably took a lower fee to avoid him going to a PL club

[mr.bluesky]

6 or 7 ???   Exactly when would a GB team have had only 4 English Welsh and Northern Ireland players combined ?

(Apart from in your dreams  )

Certainly wouldn't be any Scottish goalkeepers in the team 

[bigden40]

6 or 7 ???   Exactly when would a GB team have had only 4 English Welsh and Northern Ireland players combined ?

(Apart from in your dreams  )

So for shits and giggles, I’d argue around 77/78.  No Welsh or Ni

|Pos|Player        |Nation  |
|---|--------------|--------|
|GK |Peter Shilton |England |
|RB |Phil Neal     |England |
|CB |Martin Buchan   |Scotland|
|CB |Gordon McQueen|Scotland|
|LB |Kenny Burns   |Scotland|
|RM |Graeme Souness|Scotland|
|CM |Ray Wilkins   |England |
|CM |Archie Gemmill|Scotland|
|LM |Kenny Dalglish|Scotland|
|ST |Kevin Keegan  |England |
|ST |Joe Jordan    |Scotland|

[mills_and_bhuna]

So for shits and giggles, I’d argue around 77/78.  No Welsh or Ni

|Pos|Player        |Nation  |
|---|--------------|--------|
|GK |Peter Shilton |England |
|RB |Phil Neal     |England |
|CB |Martin Buchan   |Scotland|
|CB |Gordon McQueen|Scotland|
|LB |Kenny Burns   |Scotland|
|RM |Graeme Souness|Scotland|
|CM |Ray Wilkins   |England |
|CM |Archie Gemmill|Scotland|
|LM |Kenny Dalglish|Scotland|
|ST |Kevin Keegan  |England |
|ST |Joe Jordan    |Scotland|

Kenny Burns?
You're having a laugh.
You sure you're not getting mixed up with 1927-28?
The Wembley Wizards?
Phoenix might know

[timsussex]

So for shits and giggles, I’d argue around 77/78.  No Welsh or Ni

|Pos|Player        |Nation  |
|---|--------------|--------|
|GK |Peter Shilton |England |
|RB |Phil Neal     |England |
|CB |Martin Buchan   |Scotland|
|CB |Gordon McQueen|Scotland|
|LB |Kenny Burns   |Scotland|
|RM |Graeme Souness|Scotland|
|CM |Ray Wilkins   |England |
|CM |Archie Gemmill|Scotland|
|LM |Kenny Dalglish|Scotland|
|ST |Kevin Keegan  |England |
|ST |Joe Jordan    |Scotland|

No Wales ? Id take Toshack ahead of Jordan
No NI ?  was Best sober that year ?

At least all of them could read and followed  Dr Johnson's advice 
“The noblest prospect which a Scotchman ever sees, is the high road that leads him to England!”

[bigden40]

No Wales ? Id take Toshack ahead of Jordan
No NI ?  was Best sober that year ?

At least all of them could read and followed  Dr Johnson's advice 
“The noblest prospect which a Scotchman ever sees, is the high road that leads him to England!”

Best would have been first name on the team sheet at his peak, but was pissed by the mid 70s. Pat Jennings would be the other standout Nordie, maybe ahead of Shilton at that time. Toshack would be worth a shout but you’ve a pretty sharp drop off otherwise, you’re not going to pick Micky Thomas or Leighton James ahead of those mentioned. Terry Yorath maybe.

A further XI could include

|Player           |Nation  |
|-----------------|--------|
|Ray Clemence     |England |
|Emlyn Hughes     |England |
|Dave Watson      |England |
|Alan Hansen    |Scotland|
|Don Masson       |Scotland|
|Trevor Brooking  |England |
|Steve Coppell    |England |
|Lou Macari       |Scotland|
|Malcolm Macdonald|England |

[Blackpool Rock]

As things stand coming up to half time with Senegal beating Iraq 1-0 it sees Scotland drop out of the qualifying zone.

Iraq also down to 10 men so i'd expect Senegal to extend their lead rather than Iran fight back for a point

Scotland need to hope that Algeria get beaten by more than 1 goal later tonight

[john122350]

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[bigden40]

As things stand coming up to half time with Senegal beating Iraq 1-0 it sees Scotland drop out of the qualifying zone.

Iraq also down to 10 men so i'd expect Senegal to extend their lead rather than Iran fight back for a point

Scotland need to hope that Algeria get beaten by more than 1 goal later tonight

Senegal 3-0 up.

We need Argentina and Egypt to win today to still be alive tomorrow morning.

Then tomorrow night we need Uzbekistan to get at least a point and Austria to win by 2 or more.

Just a normal World Cup with us, possible permutations all the way up to the last moment.

[mr.bluesky]

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[mr.bluesky]

As things stand coming up to half time with Senegal beating Iraq 1-0 it sees Scotland drop out of the qualifying zone.

Iraq also down to 10 men so i'd expect Senegal to extend their lead rather than Iran fight back for a point

Scotland need to hope that Algeria get beaten by more than 1 goal later tonight

Remember the good old World Cup format with 32 teams where if you finished first or second in your group you qualified for the knockout stages without all this " what if " bollocks

[timsussex]

1978 was probably Scotlands peak and Englands nadir
The world cup where Scotland qualified (and England under Revie didnt; being in a group with Italy where only the winner qualified and no second chances)
Scotland went off to Argentina with a real hope of coming close to winning - with manager Ally Macleod talking big before the inevitable fall and early trip home

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The story was they were sitting in the airport on the way home and MacLeod was watching a stray dog saying he knew exactly how he felt as both of them didnt have a friend in the world.
He went over to the dog and it bit him !

[bigden40]

Kenny Burns?
You're having a laugh.
You sure you're not getting mixed up with 1927-28?
The Wembley Wizards?
Phoenix might know

Not at all. Kenny Burns was a form player in 1978, immediately prior to his back to back European Cup winners medals. Which left back would you have preferred?  Willie Donnachie, Mick Mills?

[bigden40]

1978 was probably Scotlands peak and Englands nadir
The world cup where Scotland qualified (and England under Revie didnt; being in a group with Italy where only the winner qualified and no second chances)
Scotland went off to Argentina with a real hope of coming close to winning - with manager Ally Macleod talking big before the inevitable fall and early trip home

External Link/Members Only

The story was they were sitting in the airport and MacLeod was watching a stray dog saying he knew exactly how he felt as both of them didnt have a friend in the world.
He went over to the dog and it bit him !

We were pretty strong from the mid 60s through to the mid 80s tbh. The 70s really was a wasted “golden generation” though.

We lacked tournament savvy back then, and we still lack it today.

[timsussex]

Not at all. Kenny Burns was a form player in 1978, immediately prior to his back to back European Cup winners medals. Which left back would you have preferred?  Willie Donnachie, Mick Mills?

One of the hardest of the "hard men" of that era but I'm not sure he was a left back although I doubt any winger would get past him twice without scars !

[bigden40]

One of the hardest of the "hard men" of that era but I'm not sure he was a left back although I doubt any winger would get past him twice without scars !

He was versatile, I think Clough signed him as a centre forward but he also played centre half, left back and in midfield.

Scotland's back 4 in '78 was:

Kennedy or Jardine - 2 from Buchan, McQueen, Forsyth or Burns - Burns or Donnachie

[ulstersubbie]

We were pretty strong from the mid 60s through to the mid 80s tbh. The 70s really was a wasted “golden generation” though.

We lacked tournament savvy back then, and we still lack it today.

I said exactly this earlier in the thread, the talent we had was scandalously squandered. 1978 was the absolute shit show overseen by a con man/snake oil salesman called Ally McLeod. Steve Clarke is no brain surgeon when it comes to tactics but f**kwit Ally was on another level when it came to incompetence.

[ulstersubbie]

The story was they were sitting in the airport on the way home and MacLeod was watching a stray dog saying he knew exactly how he felt as both of them didnt have a friend in the world.
He went over to the dog and it bit him !

The dog should have pissed on the c**t, that would of been a laugh!   

[timsussex]

Spain 1-0 Uruguay who drop to 3rd in the group and below Scotland who are up to 9th

Its the faint hope that kills you

[timsussex]

Ugly end to Spain match several yellow cards and a red for Uruguay - who will go out

Brilliant result for Cape Verdi who go through in second place and get Argentina !

Ref did pretty well - in fact I've been impressed by the refs in general (famous last words!) who have let games flow, havent responded to acting injured. VAR has in general stayed out of it and only corrected major errors 

Perhaps the SFA could hire the CV manager ?

[bigden40]

Well that Egypt/Iran result has fucked it.

Bad enough looking for Austria/Algeria, now also need Ghana to beat Croatia by 3