Author Topic: Pattaya possibly march 2026 - newbie  (Read 8529 times)

Offline AceVentura_1

Seriously thinking of Pattaya in early-mid march this year, I know there is a million threads on this but wanted the latest intel so have a few questions.

1: would it be better to get the 1st night hotel booking sorted before travelling, and then find a “girl friendly” hotel for the remainder of the visit the next day to avoid booking fees (if so any recommendations welcome, I will say 3* minimum with Wi-Fi, and quite near the beach, not necessarily beachfront)

2: transport from Bangkok airport (don’t mind paying for taxi, but again any recommendations welcome)

3: I would rather not use apps and stuff, but is that the best way or can I just pick up and fuck most girls in bars etc (recommendations welcome)

4: as a middle aged guy, what would be the best help for me to manage basically a week long fuckfest (E.D help, not a requirement but just to be more like in my 20’s again)

All info welcome  :drinks: :hi:

Offline southcoastpunter

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AV - you mention the many existing threads on Pattaya (and t here are LOADS) - have you actually read any of them? Most of what you ask has been commented on a number of times.

FWiW this is my take based on 8 visits in the last 3 years - last one was a couple of months ago.

You don't need many apps but two i consider essential - ThaiFriendly for girls and Bolt for taxi's. (some people ise Grab instead of Bolt but they are similar). I remember some guys saying Nams Taxi and Mike's Taxis are good to pre-book for rides from Bangkok airport to either Sukhumvit area of Bangkok (the "action" area of Bangkok) or to Pattaya. cost to Patts was about 1200 -1500 baht.  Last time i didn't pre-book and ended up getting a normal airport taxi (2200 baht) to patts.

yes, definitely book a hotel for your first few days, at least. actually it is often cheaper to book via Booking.com or similar than direct with a hotel - they mass book and give the hotels so much business that they get big discounts. Last time my plans chnaged during my time out their and i decided to stay in Patts longer than initially planned and went to extent my stay in my hotel - the rate i was quoted by the hotel was a fair bit more expensive than booking.com. guys have different views on where to stay but my viewe is between Beach toad and second road (SaiSong road) and around soi12 or 13. But Patts is easy to get around - walk, Bolt taxi (motorbike or car) or the Baht Bus - a jump on/jump off bus of sorts. whichever it easy and cheap.

i practically live in shorts and T shirts whilst there so you don't need much luggage - and there are loads of good and cheap 24 hour laundry services. Loads of ATM's too around town - across much of thailand cash is king. I always take my own condom and always have a couple in my pockets when around town and you never know when the opportunity will arise. You can pick up girls practically anywhere and everywhere in Patts. From TF, from bars , alomg the street, in McD's, etc. and there are loads of clubs etc. You cannot fail to get as much sex as you want in Patts. Depending on you, your age etc - most of it will be paid for sex but younger, good lookimg guys may get some free sex but everyone there has a living to make and sex makes up a fair amount of many ladies income there.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2026, 12:32:18 am by southcoastpunter »

Offline The0neAnd0nly

I used Tans Taxi from Don Mueng to Pattaya then Nams Taxi from Pattaya for Bangkok.

External Link/Members Only
External Link/Members Only

Exceptional service with both and kept me informed on WhatsApp etc. Drive contact you day before with full details (picture of driver, car reg etc)

Both drivers didnt speak much English though. Tans Taxi driver gave me a big hug after dropping me off and got me to screenshot her WhatsApp QR code.
Unsure of she was up for some fun or just being friendly but I forgot to save her number after the screenshot  :dash:

For some reason Nam doesnt pickup from Don Mueng. Fixed prices on the website links above.

Offline ronthebrummie

Nams to Pattaya is a must, they’re brilliant.
Other than booking your hotel don’t plan anything TF is very hit and miss, Soi 6 isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, Walking St is Delhi central now, LK very quiet, Showgirls had some good talent last year this year think only about 8 girls working, things change on a weekly basis.
Talent is everywhere, beach road, malls etc
Whatever you plan won’t work.
Just enjoy it

Offline southcoastpunter

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Other than booking your hotel don’t plan anything  - things change on a weekly basis.


and even quicker than that. If you go in a club and have a great time and then go back the following day, it can be very different. The girls you liked aren't there or with other guys, the vibe is different, etc etc. Book your flight, taxi from airport and hotel, have a few ideas of places you might check out and then just "go with the flow"

Offline AceVentura_1

Cheers guys  :drinks:, all great info so far, all information greatfully appreciated, the only reason I started this thread is because of the amount already on here I just wanted specific answers to a few questions and I CBA sifting through all the others at least this one is kind of specific for me, but please do keep the info coming, also are the little tuck-tuks a way of getting around, and could I ask which hotels are the “girl friendly” ones on booking.com, thanks again everyone  :hi:

Offline southcoastpunter

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tuk tuk's are generally plentiful in Bangkok (and generally more expensive than normal tax's) but not in Pattaya.

Practically every hotel in Pattaya is guest friendly but to be sure message them (the hotel direct) and ask - that is, if you can be arsed to do so!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2026, 06:29:43 pm by southcoastpunter »

Offline NierM

Most hotels are guest friendly but just ask at the desk. Some have a policy or an option for the guest to have their ID held and they call your room when they leave to make sure everything is ok. Saved hassle if you get a bad situation. I didn’t experience any bad times but have heard stories

Offline toon972

Cheers guys  :drinks:, all great info so far, all information greatfully appreciated, the only reason I started this thread is because of the amount already on here I just wanted specific answers to a few questions and I CBA sifting through all the others at least this one is kind of specific for me, but please do keep the info coming, also are the little tuck-tuks a way of getting around, and could I ask which hotels are the “girl friendly” ones on booking.com, thanks again everyone  :hi:

Some hotels charge extra for the girl and is called the "joiner fee" so ask if they charge this. They usually tell you on the hotels page about this in the questions part.

Offline Steely Dan

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The key points from almost every thread has been summarised here:
External Link/Members Only
If you look under hotels, it provides a link to a website that positively confirms those that are punter friendly (and mentions if there is a joiner fee - less usual than pre covid, but it might exist). I'm almost certain every hotel allows escorts.  But I still wont stay in the Hilton (escorts are welcome there), since I don't want to pass families as I walk in 3 times a day with different Spinners.  In Sandy Spring Hotel, if I don't have a new girl every day my friend the doorman would probably worry about me.  And I never try to sneak by - the hotel is my wing-man.

The sub page of the page linked above lists many venues, streets and web-links for nightlife.  There are 10,000+ escorts in Pattaya scattered across perhaps 500 bars and clubs.  I'm sure you will find pussy.

And there is always something new.  Do report back anywhere new that is good, bad or unusual.  Enjoy your trip.

Offline Doormatt

I don't want to start a new thread, and I'm not trying to hijak this one.
What are the best nightclubs (formerly discos) in walking st. Not gogo etc, but places to dance? Not Indian clubs. More western please. Funk, disco,Dance,hiphop,drum and base.thanks.

Offline life_wasted

Not Indian clubs. More western please. Funk, disco,Dance,hiphop,drum and base.thanks.

Can you explain that line please? What you mean by not infian club? You mean not Thai club? What does it Indians got to do with Thai pls? I never been to Thailand so bit confused by that. Or you mean there is big Indian community in Thailand and they have loads of clubs and you want to avoid that?

Thx

Offline NierM

Can you explain that line please? What you mean by not infian club? You mean not Thai club? What does it Indians got to do with Thai pls? I never been to Thailand so bit confused by that. Or you mean there is big Indian community in Thailand and they have loads of clubs and you want to avoid that?

Thx

The place has got very popular among Indians. There are a few big clubs in walking street especially that are catered only for Indian people. I’ve never been in one but as far as I can tell, they don’t let non-Indian people in. Honestly walking street has lost a lot of appeal as it’s started becoming very heavy Russian/indian. I’d avoid Russian clubs and agogos too. I’ve been in one before, cost me three times as much as any other place and it was not worth it.

I’d stick with LK metro, tree town & soi 6. If you want walking street, then take the first 1/3 of the street as these are mostly still Thai predominantly, but are still expensive compared to the others in pattaya.

As another anecdote, I was chatting with a bar girl the other day and she said she avoids Indians. Might be just a play to make my pasty white self feel more important but you never know, and she never gave a reason as to why

Offline life_wasted

The place has got very popular among Indians. There are a few big clubs in walking street especially that are catered only for Indian people. I’ve never been in one but as far as I can tell, they don’t let non-Indian people in. Honestly walking street has lost a lot of appeal as it’s started becoming very heavy Russian/indian. I’d avoid Russian clubs and agogos too. I’ve been in one before, cost me three times as much as any other place and it was not worth it.

I’d stick with LK metro, tree town & soi 6. If you want walking street, then take the first 1/3 of the street as these are mostly still Thai predominantly, but are still expensive compared to the others in pattaya.

As another anecdote, I was chatting with a bar girl the other day and she said she avoids Indians. Might be just a play to make my pasty white self feel more important but you never know, and she never gave a reason as to why

I wasn't aware this kind of issues but good to know!

Offline Steely Dan

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What are the best nightclubs (formerly discos) in walking st. Not gogo etc, but places to dance? Not Indian clubs. More western please. Funk, disco,Dance,hiphop,drum and base.thanks.
The link above has a page which summarises the consensus.  The top 3 in 2025 were Myst, Insomnia and Republic.  2026 it might be different - Pattaya changes fast.  The Indian clubs are Boss, Panda, Sun's and Akira - they are near each other on the far end of the street, so no worry.

I'm too old to enjoy these.  I prefer rock bars like Stone Roses and Matador.  Just reporting the data from the wiki, not sharing a personal view.  Also Pattaya is not Ibiza - these places, while they have loud modern music, are more about drinking SangSom and picking up freelancers than dancing in foam.

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« Last Edit: January 27, 2026, 05:21:41 pm by Steely Dan »

Offline Steely Dan

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As another anecdote, I was chatting with a bar girl the other day and she said she avoids Indians. Might be just a play to make my pasty white self feel more important but you never know, and she never gave a reason as to why
The Thai are easy going and welcome anyone who is polite, not smelly and has money. Actually a bit impolite and a bit smelly is probably ok.  The issue is not with Indians, but with many of the Indians who end up in Pattaya.  There are a lot of package holiday companies who noticed that there are 1.46 billion Indians, many of them young single men.  They go with their buddies on a one week trip of a lifetime.  They don't have a lot of spending money and they travel in groups of 3 to 4.  One may try to get a girl to come back to their room and they may expect her to 'play' with the whole group.  As a few posters have noted, this makes it awkward for British Asians, but once they understand that they are not part of the 'club 18-30' Indian tour groups, most girls are fine.  Of course others just don't bother - plenty-of-fish rule in reverse.

Offline Swapmeister

My first time in Nana Plaza Bangkok I followed a group of young Indians into one of the clubs and they were refused admission by Security. I later found out the why when talking about this to a regular visitor. They will often nurse one drink for a whole evening.  And they never buy lady drinks or bar fine the girls.  When it comes to the freelancers, as said above,  they will negotiate hard and a no is seen as a negotiation tactic

Offline billybob69

I don't want to start a new thread, and I'm not trying to hijak this one.
What are the best nightclubs (formerly discos) in walking st. Not gogo etc, but places to dance? Not Indian clubs. More western please. Funk, disco,Dance,hiphop,drum and base.thanks.
Not really my thing but I am told that Lucifers, Republic and Candy Shop are often favoured by Thai bar girls looking to party.
A lot of the traditional "disco's" on Walking Street never survived Covid and that scene has perhaps moved to Treetown.

Offline AceVentura_1

Any chance this could carry on being a fact finding mission for me and not some other crap about music places and what and where Indians are for some reason (definite hijack, start your own thread) I know I said all contributions welcome (guess I was mistaken) ALL actual hints & tips are welcome  :thumbsup:

Offline Browser34

Thanks everyone for your input. I’m taking my first trip to Pattaya later this year. I will give my report for sure.

Offline southcoastpunter

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Any chance this could carry on being a fact finding mission for me and not some other crap about music places and what and where Indians are for some reason (definite hijack, start your own thread) I know I said all contributions welcome (guess I was mistaken) ALL actual hints & tips are welcome  :thumbsup:

just because you started this thread, doesn't mean you "own it" - anyone can post whatever they want on it (as long as its not political) - and frankly your comment is hardly likely to inspire others to help you. Personally, i now wish i had stopped after asking you if you had read any of the many previous threads on Pattaya

Offline billybob69

Any chance this could carry on being a fact finding mission for me and not some other crap about music places and what and where Indians are for some reason (definite hijack, start your own thread) I know I said all contributions welcome (guess I was mistaken) ALL actual hints & tips are welcome :thumbsup:
OK, to put it in really simple language, the question in reality was 'where to go to hook up with hotties after 1am'. The simple answer was Nightclubs on Walking Street. But not those Indian owned.

To explain in more detail, Thai Bar girls (particularly those that work on Soi 6) when the bars close like to head to nightclubs to either (a) find themselves a paying punter for the rest of the night (b) have a good time with their girlfriends. Either way, these places are full of young, attractive Thai women. Under no circumstances will these hotties find themselves in an Indian owned nightclub.

Offline AceVentura_1

Apologies everyone, had a shit day, no offence intended (my bad) :thumbsdown:

Offline Steely Dan

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Apologies everyone, had a shit day, no offence intended (my bad) :thumbsdown:
Someone needs to get to Pattaya ASAP and have a massage and a few good fucks.  Meanwhile listen to the song:
External Link/Members Only

Offline SharperCarper

The key points from almost every thread has been summarised here:
External Link/Members Only
If you look under hotels, it provides a link to a website that positively confirms those that are punter friendly (and mentions if there is a joiner fee - less usual than pre covid, but it might exist). I'm almost certain every hotel allows escorts.  But I still wont stay in the Hilton (escorts are welcome there), since I don't want to pass families as I walk in 3 times a day with different Spinners.  In Sandy Spring Hotel, if I don't have a new girl every day my friend the doorman would probably worry about me.  And I never try to sneak by - the hotel is my wing-man.

The sub page of the page linked above lists many venues, streets and web-links for nightlife.  There are 10,000+ escorts in Pattaya scattered across perhaps 500 bars and clubs.  I'm sure you will find pussy.

And there is always something new.  Do report back anywhere new that is good, bad or unusual.  Enjoy your trip.

Having a search through the forum as planning a trip for Jan 2027, and the sandy spring looks perfect. Great price, rooms look decent, good reviews and decent location!

Guessing to get to the likes of LK / Soi 6, you just jump a baht bus / taxi?

Offline Jeffers77

tuk tuk's are generally plentiful in Bangkok (and generally more expensive than normal tax's) but not in Pattaya.

Practically every hotel in Pattaya is guest friendly but to be sure message them (the hotel direct) and ask - that is, if you can be arsed to do so!

Suggesting Tuk Tuks is a quick way to get ripped off  :D
As Southcoastpunter suggested already though - Just use Bolt (actually better Grab) because there seems to be a lack of drivers on Bolt in BKK now - and take the motorcyle option. Its the best way to get around BKK, if you dont mind some weaving.

If you want quantity I would suggest visiting Soi 6 and just letting rip, you could shag your way up and down that place for weeks and not have the same girl.
Join this for a feel of the girls - the nightwish group (a large collection of Soi 6 bars) post their girls every day - External Link/Members Only

You might also like Gentleman's clubs, best to look at lineups before you go but as they are private you can have some real fun in them - get them naked and practically do everything you want there, but also option to do behind curtain and upstairs. I would check out the GC group discord (a collection of GCs) - External Link/Members Only, this is their site, you can see their GCs in nav. External Link/Members Only
They also do bar crawls 3 or 4 times a week. As does Buzzin (twice a week). Its a great way to scout for women and have drinks with fellow punters, met a few friends there.

But in general - practially every girl in Pattaya is on the game. Make sure you get the LINE app, this is essential as most girls are on it, but many also use whatsapp. I prefer to use LINE as it means a seperation of punting and non punting. I have met girls in 7 Eleven, on the street, in a restaurant - literally everywhere. Its heaven.

I have become a Pattaya addict, spent many months there last year (and other years), UK scene got so bad post Covid, and Pattaya is the Alpha and Omega

Lastly suggest looking at Pattaya Addicts Forum - comprehensive.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2026, 12:41:09 am by Jeffers77 »

Offline Steely Dan

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Having a search through the forum as planning a trip for Jan 2027, and the sandy spring looks perfect. Great price, rooms look decent, good reviews and decent location!

Guessing to get to the likes of LK / Soi 6, you just jump a baht bus / taxi?
From Soi 13 to Soi LK / Soi Boomerang it is a short walk through the mall with Robin Hood restaurant in it. Also pretty short walk to walking street.  I do take a baht bus to get to Soi 6.

The internet in Sandy Spring is annoying (needs password every day) but it works.  They do have breakfast and a small bar, but I almost always eat breakfast at Sportsman next door.  Not a posh place, but has fine rooms, a great beach view and friendly staff.

Offline coachman

The Thai are easy going and welcome anyone who is polite, not smelly and has money. Actually a bit impolite and a bit smelly is probably ok.  The issue is not with Indians, but with many of the Indians who end up in Pattaya.  There are a lot of package holiday companies who noticed that there are 1.46 billion Indians, many of them young single men.  They go with their buddies on a one week trip of a lifetime.  They don't have a lot of spending money and they travel in groups of 3 to 4.  One may try to get a girl to come back to their room and they may expect her to 'play' with the whole group.  As a few posters have noted, this makes it awkward for British Asians, but once they understand that they are not part of the 'club 18-30' Indian tour groups, most girls are fine.  Of course others just don't bother - plenty-of-fish rule in reverse.

Yea exactly this, hit the nail on the head. I am a UK Asian and have seen massive changes in the 25 odd years of visiting Thailand. Back in the day i was treated with respect and I felt welcome wherever i went, it was such a fun place. Over the years and gradually ( maybe its my age and i now look like an old bastard!) but i found myself having to constantly justify my existence to everyone! The hand holding groups of Indian men are 100% the cause of this attitude change. I should add, once i open my mouth (and wallet) and they realise i am not part of that group then their demeanour changes for the better. I'm referring to Girls, Bouncers, shop keepers, other tourists! Maybe i'm being a bit nostalgic and everything changes with time but if you can recommend a place like Thailand circa 2000 I'd be all ears!

Offline Steely Dan

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Maybe i'm being a bit nostalgic and everything changes with time but if you can recommend a place like Thailand circa 2000 I'd be all ears!
There is no where like Thailand, let alone Thailand 25 ya.  Closest today with no bad tapes of the hand-holding Indian guys would be Latin America.  No package holidays from Mumbai to Bogata.  Consider Colombia, Brazil and Dominican Republic.

Offline Grenadier36

Seriously thinking of Pattaya in early-mid march this year, I know there is a million threads on this but wanted the latest intel so have a few questions.

1: would it be better to get the 1st night hotel booking sorted before travelling, and then find a “girl friendly” hotel for the remainder of the visit the next day to avoid booking fees (if so any recommendations welcome, I will say 3* minimum with Wi-Fi, and quite near the beach, not necessarily beachfront)



On point 1 you will need to have sorted your hotel for the first night of your stay as you need to declare this on the TDAC 72h before you land. Make sure you have the address of the hotel as you will need it to complete the form, which is available here: External Link/Members Only

Offline Uk765

Landed back a day or 2 ago from a month visit.

4th visit. (2nd visit in 4 months)

Feel free to ask me anything! One thing I would advise you is the majority locals view you as a "customer", they need to earn a living so if you don't have any ego about this you can have a fairly good time.

Relating this to a post I saw about jealous bar girls.. it's not that they need you, they are upset they are missing out on custom and therefore money. They will lovebomb you into trying to see them daily. Don't be a sucker for this, but at the same time don't be rude/resentful, understand its Pay2win in Pattaya. Obviously being good looking, confident, dressed well and hygienic helps a lot!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2026, 12:30:05 pm by Uk765 »

Offline SharperCarper

Landed back a day or 2 ago from a month visit.

4th visit. (2nd visit in 4 months)

Feel free to ask me anything! One thing I would advise you is the majority locals view you as a "customer", they need to earn a living so if you don't have any ego about this you can have a fairly good time.

Relating this to a post I saw about jealous bar girls.. it's not that they need you, they are upset they are missing out on custom and therefore money. They will lovebomb you into trying to see them daily. Don't be a sucker for this, but at the same time don't be rude/resentful, understand its Pay2win in Pattaya. Obviously being good looking, confident, dressed well and hygienic helps a lot!

Glad you had a good time bud. Any recommendations on soapys / nurus / bars you went to? And what were the fees? Not see too much info on this high season so be interesting to see how pricing is comparing to last year. Cheers

Offline Uk765

Glad you had a good time bud. Any recommendations on soapys / nurus / bars you went to? And what were the fees? Not see too much info on this high season so be interesting to see how pricing is comparing to last year. Cheers

In all honesty I didn't really look at Nurus/Soapies. The closest I got to going was - External Link/Members Only
They have a 2 for 1 happy hour between 4-8pm I believe.

I mainly stuck round treetown, Bukhao and Metro and would sometimes venture into the neighbouring sois.

Personally I prefer to meet Freelancers off Thaifriendly, Tinder and Beachroad. I found them to be more flexible with their time + better price.
With bar girls, you have to pay for drinks, barfine then agree a price. With a Freelancer you can agree a price without drinks and barfine, usually meaning you can be sober and perform better when shagging.

Sometimes I'd prefer to chill in my room, smoke weed, watch Prime/Netflix and call back to back freelancers over.

What I do find is that Bargirls will always have to show up the next day to work, meaning more drinks, barfines, pressure for tips from staff and overall less flexibility.

It's possible for a freelance girl to come over for free or stay through till the next afternoon if she has no "customers" that evening and she enjoyed your company from a previous evening.

Offline norsktrans

Seriously thinking of Pattaya in early-mid march this year, I know there is a million threads on this but wanted the latest intel so have a few questions.

1: would it be better to get the 1st night hotel booking sorted before travelling, and then find a “girl friendly” hotel for the remainder of the visit the next day to avoid booking fees (if so any recommendations welcome, I will say 3* minimum with Wi-Fi, and quite near the beach, not necessarily beachfront)

2: transport from Bangkok airport (don’t mind paying for taxi, but again any recommendations welcome)

3: I would rather not use apps and stuff, but is that the best way or can I just pick up and fuck most girls in bars etc (recommendations welcome)

4: as a middle aged guy, what would be the best help for me to manage basically a week long fuckfest (E.D help, not a requirement but just to be more like in my 20’s again)

All info welcome  :drinks: :hi:

My take (I have 50+ trips to LOS)

1) You would be very unlucky to find non-girlfriendly hotel in Pattaya. Choose one in soi Buakao area like Amber or Holiday Inn Express.
In the same range March, April and May. Yes, they are names of hotels in the same chain off Central Pattaya Rd.
If you want to be bang in the middle of the madness: Queen Vic in Soi 6.
Near the beach. If they still operate SeaMe Spring chain on soi 10. I would choose SeaMe Spring Too (yes, it's written like that, and 3 is Tree).

2) Public taxies are easily available (1500b). Bolt or online taxi services are a few baht cheaper.

3) The bars. Usually no pressure but if you don't buy the girls drinks you will most likely sit alone. A good thing if you want to scout and take it all in. Overwhelming the first time (for most). For a start I would recommend walk along Soi Buakao and pop into a few random bars.
Mandatory visits during the holiday are soi 6, 7, 8 off Beach rd. Soi LK Metro, Soi Chayapoon and Soi Lengkee off Soi Buakao. Tree Town on Soi Buakao and Walking Street. The latter was _the_ place to be until 2010 or so. Worth a visit. Probably the best looking girls work there but to western prices (if money is an issue).
If you wonder: Soi means side street or alley.

4) Cialis or a generic version will do wonders. Bring from home. Don't buy from street vendors!

My take. And many will probably disagree. Either way, you will enjoy yourself.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2026, 08:22:39 pm by norsktrans »

Offline Arripotter1971

I am out in there end of march, Few days in Bankok first before flying down to phuket, staying in the Travelodge this time which is a first for me as I am only there for 2 days before heading to one of the islands then heading back to the Travelodge again before heading home.
Anyone got any info on the Travelodge ?? the first two hotels they offered me had terrible reviews and were in not very good areas.

Offline clivethomas

I am out in there end of march, Few days in Bankok first before flying down to phuket, staying in the Travelodge this time which is a first for me as I am only there for 2 days before heading to one of the islands then heading back to the Travelodge again before heading home.
Anyone got any info on the Travelodge ?? the first two hotels they offered me had terrible reviews and were in not very good areas.

Travelodge is fine.  Well located and well looked after. There's a pool and bar on the roof and for what you pay it's pretty good.

Downside is the rooms are very small