Author Topic: The debate over selling sex in Scotland  (Read 13688 times)

Offline mrwhite

The logical conclusion is that taking a person out and buying them dinner and having sex afterwards might be construed as payment. I've been to places in the fast east where you did exactly that, you paid for meal, clothes, shoes, general shopping, and it was simply a cover for sexual services.

So do we now book a 90 minute booking?

45 minutes for a weeks worth of grocery shopping and then 45 minutes of fun?

Would a gift card suffice?   
« Last Edit: December 15, 2025, 11:20:06 am by mrwhite »

Offline JRWK

Everything form the courts perspective is enforceable, it's a question if the police have the resources to throw at it.  Given the current state of Police Scotland they would need a huge budget increase to increase manpower to deal with a relatively small scale issue.  Money talks.

They might not have additional or otherwise, resources to throw at it .. but in my opinion arrests would be relatively easy,
similar to 1 or 2 policemen. siting in a van with a speed camera


Offline daviemac

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Since my last update the committee have met in private twice and should now be making up a report for the stage 1 vote which the papers indicate could be next month.

Following her appearance raising concerns Siobhann Brown the goverment minister has written to them
You now need to come up with a very good reason you have ignored the final warning that you acknowledged and posted referencing politics.

BTW the thread will stay but those who show a blatant disregard for the rules won't.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2025, 03:01:41 pm by daviemac »

Offline the fitter

They might not have additional or otherwise, resources to throw at it .. but in my opinion arrests would be relatively easy,
similar to 1 or 2 policemen. siting in a van with a speed camera
If it was that easy why are there no arrests in Northern Ireland (useing that legislation) after the Law being applied for some years now, there are lots of reasons a person, could be coming out of that address, and they need good reason to charge you with anything. And I am sure if it comes to it, the SP's will modify thier profiles to suit.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2025, 03:12:59 pm by the fitter »

Offline globewindsailor

You now need to come up with a very good reason you have ignored the final warning that you acknowledged and posted referencing politics.
BTW the thread will stay but those who show a blatant disregard for the rules won't.
I thought the warning was related to posting about the parties involved(they want this, election soon i.e the last few posts before your warning) rather than reporting on the details from the progress of the bill(which is what the thread about) and what I'd been doing before then(mostly I guess). The mods had not posted or warned on that which I would have expected quickly(previous threads on this have not been allowed), so posted along that line again. I would hope mentioning the result of any votes on the bill or 2nd readings etc would be ok, but doesn't seem to be. In reporting the details of the committee I've tried to give an idea of what could be in store for us and admittedly raise awareness. Tbh from being in this forum a while I don't take this as a very good reason, but it is what it is. It's an important issue.

Offline daviemac

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I thought the warning was related to posting about the parties involved(they want this, election soon i.e the last few posts before your warning) rather than reporting on the details from the progress of the bill(which is what the thread about) and what I'd been doing before then(mostly I guess). The mods had not posted or warned on that which I would have expected quickly(previous threads on this have not been allowed), so posted along that line again. I would hope mentioning the result of any votes on the bill or 2nd readings etc would be ok, but doesn't seem to be. In reporting the details of the committee I've tried to give an idea of what could be in store for us and admittedly raise awareness. Tbh from being in this forum a while I don't take this as a very good reason, but it is what it is. It's an important issue.
I'm not sure what part of "If you can't comment without being political don't post." you don't understand.  :unknown:

My post came after the thread was brought to the attention of the mods and once the warning was posted that should have been the end of any political comments.

Apart from political posts being against the rules ignoring a warning from a mod comes with a ban.

32 Wannabe Mods and/or who do not heed mods/admins' warnings will be banned.


Offline globewindsailor

Sorry. I don't have any other answers,other than what I said before, that I thought the warning was for a different conduct within the thread.

Offline Strawberry

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This arrived by email this morning, may be of interest to members and posters, unfortunately the hyperlinks haven't copied across;

Good morning 

 

Re: Criminal Justice Committee’s Stage 1 Report on the Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill

 

On behalf of the Criminal Justice Committee, I want to thank you for taking part in the Committee’s Stage 1 scrutiny of the Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill.

 

I am writing to let you know that the Committee has published its Stage 1 report on the Bill today, Friday 23 January 2026. The report is available online here: CJS626R02 | Scottish Parliament Website.

 

A News Release from the Convener of the Committee on the publication of the report is available online here: Scottish Parliament Committee sets out its views on the general principles of the Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill | Scottish Parliament Website

 

The Scottish Parliament has agreed the Stage 1 debate on the Bill will take place in the Debating Chamber on Tuesday 3 February 2026. See the Business Bulletin for more details.

 

All MSPs will have an opportunity to debate the Bill during the Stage 1 debate. At Decision Time that evening, the Parliament will vote on whether the Bill should proceed to the next stage of parliamentary consideration.

 

Further information on how the Scottish Parliament scrutinises bills is available online.

 

You can watch the proceedings live on 3 February on Scottish Parliament TV.

 

Members of the public can also book tickets for the public gallery of the Debating Chamber if they wish to observe the debate in person on 3 February. Tickets are free and can be booked using the Parliament’s online booking system.

 

Regards

 

Criminal Justice Committee clerks

Scottish Parliament

« Last Edit: January 23, 2026, 08:34:53 am by Strawberry »

Offline Strawberry

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« Last Edit: January 23, 2026, 09:19:46 am by Strawberry »

Online advent2016

So say this passes and punters get criminalised, what the hell do we do? I'm assuming AW will become a wasteland. And with the Age Verification, the government will have a large number of punters details. Just hope and pray you don't get caught?

A large number of fake details. Good luck with "Mike Oxlong" from "White Knobs Lane"

Offline WelshClipper

Pardon me for being an interloper from down south. The only value I bring is living through the passage of the Nordic bill to Sweden, France and Canada. I.e. watching here and reading in the press starting 2014.

In all three cases, on passage, one big change noticed was men with a lot more to lose are much more likely to stop punting than say single guys.

I do not know the percentage of punters on here who are married/partnered.

However one of the issues is not whether it’s actual or theoretical but if a married man perceives it to be risky then he is not going to punt.

For punters the risks of getting caught may hugely outweigh the gratification of the punt. Some of the most outwardly spoken WGs at the time mentioned this.

In other words they are possibly targeting one of the least worrisome groups.

I have a hole in the Welsh borderlands that I will now crawl back into  :hi: :hi: :hi:
« Last Edit: January 23, 2026, 03:05:15 pm by WelshClipper »

Offline the fitter

The Committee is concerned over whether the new criminal offence proposed in the Bill can adequately be enforced. Evidence gathered by the Committee highlights challenges in both policing and prosecuting an offence which invariably takes place in private, may be arranged online, and may involve very vulnerable individuals who are reluctant to give evidence.

      As I have said before, I still think if it passes it will only affect the timid, as even the committee is concerned if it can be enforced.

Offline Fookmefooku

Pardon me for being an interloper from down south. The only value I bring is living through the passage of the Nordic bill to Sweden, France and Canada. I.e. watching here and reading in the press starting 2014.

In all three cases, on passage, one big change noticed was men with a lot more to lose are much more likely to stop punting than say single guys.

I do not know the percentage of punters on here who are married/partnered.

However one of the issues is not whether it’s actual or theoretical but if a married man perceives it to be risky then he is not going to punt.

For punters the risks of getting caught may hugely outweigh the gratification of the punt. Some of the most outwardly spoken WGs at the time mentioned this.

In other words they are possibly targeting one of the least worrisome groups.

I have a hole in the Welsh borderlands that I will now crawl back into  :hi: :hi: :hi:

I'm a single guy and honestly? Id probably call it quits if this got pushed through, or at least call quits on seeing new people and keep to a few trusted regulars.

Offline WelshClipper

I'm a single guy and honestly? Id probably call it quits if this got pushed through, or at least call quits on seeing new people and keep to a few trusted regulars.

Yeah sorry, I wasn’t trying to exclude single guys more about setting the bar at the married guys as an absolute minimum.

There is the potential of a lot of devastation, I am a married, I am a punter, I will definitely quit if it becomes illegal.

 :hi:

Offline the fitter

Yeah sorry, I wasn’t trying to exclude single guys more about setting the bar at the married guys as an absolute minimum.

There is the potential of a lot of devastation, I am a married, I am a punter, I will definitely quit if it becomes illegal.

 :hi:
You might be more careful, but I doubt if you will quit, it isn't making much difference in Northern Ireland, and the seen must still be quite lucrative, as the area is still attracting tourers.

Offline WelshClipper

You might be more careful, but I doubt if you will quit, it isn't making much difference in Northern Ireland, and the seen must still be quite lucrative, as the area is still attracting tourers.

It’s that word ‘illegal’ that sticks in the craw.

But never say never I suppose  :)

Offline JRWK

Pardon me for being an interloper from down south. The only value I bring is living through the passage of the Nordic bill to Sweden, France and Canada. I.e. watching here and reading in the press starting 2014.

In all three cases, on passage, one big change noticed was men with a lot more to lose are much more likely to stop punting than say single guys.

I do not know the percentage of punters on here who are married/partnered.

However one of the issues is not whether it’s actual or theoretical but if a married man perceives it to be risky then he is not going to punt.

For punters the risks of getting caught may hugely outweigh the gratification of the punt. Some of the most outwardly spoken WGs at the time mentioned this.

In other words they are possibly targeting one of the least worrisome groups.

I have a hole in the Welsh borderlands that I will now crawl back into  :hi: :hi: :hi:


"In other words they are possibly targeting one of the least worrisome groups." that sums up my opinion completely

Offline Lilywhite

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The Scottish Government decided not to back Ash Regan's bill  :yahoo:

Offline Squire Haggard

The Scottish Government decided not to back Ash Regan's bill  :yahoo:

 :yahoo: :yahoo: :drinks:

She'll probably be booted out of office in May. I wonder what her job options are?


Offline Lilywhite

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:yahoo: :yahoo: :drinks:

She'll probably be booted out of office in May. I wonder what her job options are?

I'll send her an AW sign up link.

Offline LauraHoD

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Hooray....now everyone can shag away without the fear of ending up in hand cuffs....well unless they are into that of course!!


Offline Glesgaboy

Hooray....now everyone can shag away without the fear of ending up in hand cuffs....well unless they are into that of course!!
Well said 🍻

Offline Strawberry

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The Scottish Government decided not to back Ash Regan's bill  :yahoo:

I have just seen this too, not getting too excited until after the vote but shows how important it is to contribute to consultations.

Offline Courtney

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….it’s fell at stage 1 …..she can piss off now and leave us alone ….hopefully. :angelgirl: :wackogirl:

Offline globewindsailor

Yes! That's it official and the bill is dead. Ash was like an angry banshee :mad: amongst her retiring fem-nazis of Ruth Maguire and Rhoda Grant and happy angry clapping gang. Sadly the way it's gone it will be back, but for now it's time to celebrate. I'm ordering a pizza!

« Last Edit: February 03, 2026, 09:51:16 pm by globewindsailor »

Offline tartanspartan

Ash Regan’s proposal had a comforting slogan and a disastrous evidence base from day one.  It claimed to “protect women” by decriminalising prostitution while criminalising the men who pay for it — the so-called Nordic Model, imported from Sweden and presented as if it were settled success rather than contested policy.

It is neither, this approach does not end prostitution. It would have driven it further indoors, into darker corners, where screening clients becomes harder, negotiations are rushed, and violence is less likely to be reported because any police attention now threatens the client and therefore the worker’s livelihood. It is not protection its is a displacement of risk.

The proposal also made a basic category error: it deliberately blurred the line between trafficking victims and consenting adults. They are not the same. Treating them as such wastes police time chasing consensual transactions while real coercion becomes harder to detect.

Human rights organisations from Amnesty International to Human Rights Watch oppose this model for exactly this reason. They support full decriminalisation, as seen in New Zealand, where sex workers can refuse clients, report abuse, and access services without fear.

Most tellingly, many sex workers themselves oppose the Nordic approach because they understand something policymakers often don’t, when you criminalise the client, you criminalise the conditions under which they have to work.

The Scottish Parliament did not vote against protecting women. It voted against a policy that mistakes symbolism for safety, ideology for evidence, and moral posture for harm reduction.


Offline Lilywhite

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I was there in parliament today and Ash Regan quoted from some reviews here. You can probably find a transcript somewhere online if you like, but personally I'm only just home after a few too many celebratory bevs and I can't be arsed to look over her pish.

Always be mindful when writing reviews. Those who wish to work against workers will use anything they can to say this job is "misogynistic" and (I'm not joking) "torture". And if we aren't able to be here, it's kind of a shit situation for clients.

Offline Strawberry

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It is not over, the difference in the vote was not huge and I am certain there will be another attempt. Also worth considering how your MP voted when voting in elections. Greens and Lib Dems have had good sex-worker policies for quite some time now, and I am now seriously considering voting Green because of this.

Offline Strawberry

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It is not over, the difference in the vote was not huge and I am certain there will be another attempt. Also worth considering how your MP voted when voting in elections. Greens and Lib Dems have had good sex-worker policies for quite some time now, and I am now seriously considering voting Green because of this.

Just to add if this ever proceeds in Scotland it could influence England, I do nip over the border occasionally and find clients gobsmacked at the idea they could be criminalised. I also find many in England and Scotland just are not aware of proposals when raised. To be fair though many punters and even some SPs are not aware of the laws surrounding paying for sex anyway, lots of myths abound.

Offline mrwhite

It is not over, the difference in the vote was not huge and I am certain there will be another attempt. Also worth considering how your MP voted when voting in elections. Greens and Lib Dems have had good sex-worker policies for quite some time now, and I am now seriously considering voting Green because of this.

You are right, the SNP only said they were not backing it as some of the policy (in their opinion) was flawed (in my opinion the whole policy is flawed) and could not be fixed in time to be passed before the Scottish elections in May.
The SNP have indicated it is still on the agenda for the next parliament if they are re-elected.  All the more reason to not vote SNP if you are in Scotland.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2026, 10:40:44 am by mrwhite »

Offline oddson1970

Even if this is somehow passed,is it really going to be a priority for the plots to enforce? There are far more urgent matters to deal with rather than arresting someone who happens to pay for their nat king.

Offline globewindsailor

Even if this is somehow passed,is it really going to be a priority for the plots to enforce? There are far more urgent matters to deal with rather than arresting someone who happens to pay for their nat king.
Well they'd want to develop techniques and have a go so I guess the key is resources to be able to get digital evidence of bookings. I'd be more concerned with the press, activist groups and influceners targeting buyers in a way they never wanted to do to the women. Plus the fact there are lots of door bell cameras etc around that place you in the area long after the fact. Hell imagine a retiring wg decided to release her little black book which is unlikely, but not impossible. How will that sugar daddy situation work? Doom and gloom and in a way yes it could mean not much is done, but it basically raises the risk level for the rest of your life and if caught gets you on the sex offender register.

Offline the fitter

Well they'd want to develop techniques and have a go so I guess the key is resources to be able to get digital evidence of bookings. I'd be more concerned with the press, activist groups and influceners targeting buyers in a way they never wanted to do to the women. Plus the fact there are lots of door bell cameras etc around that place you in the area long after the fact. Hell imagine a retiring wg decided to release her little black book which is unlikely, but not impossible. How will that sugar daddy situation work? Doom and gloom and in a way yes it could mean not much is done, but it basically raises the risk level for the rest of your life and if caught gets you on the sex offender register.
We are already running the risks, with most of these concerns, and facts that you are quoting. I don't see how they would be enhanced, with the passing of this bill.

Offline Strawberry

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Offline Shy Tot

FFS the bill was voted down and yet they are pressing ahead with another consultation to do the same thing.

There should be a period of time - who knows what - 10 years - before they can have another go.

Offline Squire Haggard

This idiotic woman in power has a clear anti men agenda. She is using her position to obtain some form of revenge on men, it would seem.
She is ''clear that prostitution is violence''  because  she does not understand what violence is.
She is an idiot with a clear anti men agenda.
She is quite prepared to make life more dangerous for SPs. She will accept that as collateral damage as she strives towards her goal.

''Justice Secretary Angela Constance said:

“I am clear that prostitution is violence against women and girls and the purchase of sex should be criminalised. That is why we are following the Criminal Justice Committee’s recommendation to establish a Commission to consider how this can be done in an effective, enforceable way while addressing concerns raised that criminalisation could place women at higher risk of violence.''


We can only hope that the woman below has not the same anti men agenda as the one above. Sadly, there's a good chance that she will approach this with an anti men bias.

Former Deputy Chief Constable of Police Scotland Fiona Taylor  said:
“I am grateful to have been offered the opportunity to chair the independent Commission tasked with progressing this important matter.
I look forward to working with other members of the Commission, once appointed, and reporting back to Ministers in due course.’

External Link/Members Only



Offline FBman78

We are screwed with Fiona Taylor, however as she will know the government will require to increase the number of police officers by about 50, which equates to a baseline wage bill of approx £1.8 million a year, then add costs of court cases potentially a few extra Procurator Fiscals.....they ain't doing it when Police Scotland are already running underfinanced by the SNP.

Offline Massagetugga

Unfortunately this is not going to go away;

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Most of us are familiar with this anyway but I have to say when I read it last night the overall impression was more vilifying sex work and men than helping and protecting woman. In this day and age it should be obvious that criminalising something A) Doesn’t eradicate an issue B) Drives it underground and of course in turn C) Doesn’t actually help anyone involved that might be coerced and vulnerable.

I can see the point in helping and protecting the vulnerable. Why am I not getting that impression..

In the year 2026 this is all very hard to believe. If anything they should be encouraging guys to report the vulnerable even if anonymously. They’ll find it a whole lot harder to track down anyone needing help otherwise.

I have to say over many years I personally have only had one experience where a Chinese worker looked possibly trapped. In my experience females have appeared in control and content and happy. I would not feel comfortable if this were not the case.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2026, 04:42:36 pm by Massagetugga »

Offline the fitter

I had the same experience with a Chinese in Bathgate, she wasn't allowed to close the door, and the old madam who took the money, was hovering about all the time. It just didn't feel right, and the girl was uneasy, I couldn't carry on and left and reported it. But if the same scenario was to happen under what they are preposing, I wouldn't be in a position to report it.

Offline Davey Dykes

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Stumbled across this by accident, the latest 1 to put her head above the parapet.

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Votes are up shortly, aren't they?

Offline Lilywhite

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Stumbled across this by accident, the latest 1 to put her head above the parapet.

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Votes are up shortly, aren't they?

Yep, and the SNP have committed to the fact that sex work is violence against women in their manifesto. On page 69 of it no less.  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: April 22, 2026, 06:20:15 pm by Lilywhite »

Offline LauraHoD

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Oh wow...is that fucking joke? In both ways!!

Unfortunately this is never going to go away. There are always going to be certain people that are going to push for this.
Hopefully they will never be successful and there will be enough opposition to prevent this bill from ever passing.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2026, 07:29:24 pm by LauraHoD »

Offline mrwhite

Hopefully at the upcoming elections the SNP will lose power and the issue will go away.....

Saying no more as I don't want it to stray into politics.

Offline lanlover

It's a labour MP who's wanting the sites shut down, the SNP have always had a christian streak to them. The best bet is the greens winning a load of seats as they're the most liberal party.


Offline FBman78

I really don't know what the Labour MP thinks Police Scotland can do?  The internet content available is subject to UK Government and the servers are predominantly off-shore so out their jurisdiction.  This is an MP???

Offline JRWK

Stumbled across this by accident, the latest 1 to put her head above the parapet.

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Votes are up shortly, aren't they?

".. long existed extensive evidence..."   in her mind maybe !!

Offline globewindsailor

All part of the growing trend on both sides of the border to label it all as violence against women and along with internet/porn restrictions a ban on buying it. I think a read of previous posts would indicate what everyone thinks about this.

Offline Squire Haggard

At £300 to £600 an hour I doubt that any of these ladies will consider themselves to be exploited and none will want the state clamping down on their bussiness.

The women trying to ban this will be jealous of them because they all have the sex appeal of a potato. :rolleyes:

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