Air India Plane Crash

[Jumping Jack Flash]

An Air India flight has crashed on takeoff from Ahmedabad airport, it was heading for Gatwick so there’s bound to be Brits on board. It looks like it has crashed in a residential area so the potential loss of life could be catastrophic.

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[mr.bluesky]

An Air India flight has crashed on takeoff from Ahmedabad airport, it was heading for Gatwick so there’s bound to be Brits on board. It looks like it has crashed in a residential area so the potential loss of life could be catastrophic.

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Terrible news, with a plane just taking off it will be fully fuelled too so a greater risk of fire and casualties.

[lostandfound]

787-8 Dreamliner (at least not a 737-MAX), 100 tons(?) of fuel on take off - basically a flying bomb. 

Now owned by Tata, an up and coming airline.

[southcoastpunter]

787-8 Dreamliner (at least not a 737-MAX), 100 tons(?) of fuel on take off - basically a flying bomb. 

Now owned by Tata, an up and coming airline.

Tata is a huge Indian company , been around for years with fingers in many pies!

[RandomGuy99]

Only made it to 625 ft up. Possible engine failure on take off and it's a two engine aircraft.

[lostandfound]

Tata is a huge Indian company , been around for years with fingers in many pies!

Yep - revamping the planes / business class offering. On the radar of many a Brit flying to LoS.

[southcoastpunter]

Only made it to 625 ft up. Possible engine failure on take off and it's a two engine aircraft.

could have been a bird strike, could have been...... anything. we don't know yet! we know (well its reported that) the pilot managed to get off an initial "mayday" call but nothing more!

[DastardlyDick]

could have been a bird strike, could have been...... anything. we don't know yet! we know (well its reported that) the pilot managed to get off an initial "mayday" call but nothing more!

Aircraft of this type are designed to be able to fly on one engine, so unless something happened to take them both out engine failure is unlikely.. Wonder how long until someone starts using the "T word" on SM?

[scutty brown]

53 British on board

[RandomGuy99]

Aircraft of this type are designed to be able to fly on one engine, so unless something happened to take them both out engine failure is unlikely.. Wonder how long until someone starts using the "T word" on SM?

They are but engine failure during takeoff when both jets are at full throttle to get enough lift to get airborne is probably a bad time for an engine failure and pilots would be busy trying to get enough height to return to airport for landing. The T word probably has to be considered given recents events with India and its neighbours but I think unlikely just at the point of takeoff. Probably some kind of mechanical failure or bird strike.

[scutty brown]

I would expect a substantial death toll on the ground
Ahmedabad is one massive shanty-town slum with high density crowded "housing" - though "housing" is hardly the correct word for cardboard boxes and tin sheds

[Watts.E.Dunn]

There is some comment on the PPRUNE site that they retracted the flaps and slats rather than get the gear up which isnt a good thing at all at that speed and height and with a 42 deg C local air temp and some comment that they didnt use as much runway as they might or could have.

An aircraft like that will be a flying, tho not for long, bomb.

Be amazing if any passengers survived that!

RIP poor souls:(...

[lostandfound]

Footage now posted on multiple sites of plane in the air and then an instant later a massive fireball. Hard not to think how could anyone survive that?

Now reports say apparently no survivors on plane, though many rescued from the Doctors Hostel at the crash site.

[finn5555]

They have said no survivors on the flight 

[threechilliman]

There is some comment on the PPRUNE site that they retracted the flaps and slats rather than get the gear up which isnt a good thing at all at that speed and height and with a 42 deg C local air temp and some comment that they didnt use as much runway as they might or could have.

An aircraft like that will be a flying, tho not for long, bomb.

Be amazing if any passengers survived that!

RIP poor souls:(...

I'm no aviation expert, but no flaps and gear still down was the first thing I noticed.

[southcoastpunter]

I'm no aviation expert, but no flaps and gear still down was the first thing I noticed.

i am no aviation expert either but the one bit of video the BBC keeps showing, shows the plane struggling to get sufficient lift  - landing gear down and no flaps would produce that!

[scutty brown]

link to the thread on PPRUNE
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[RandomGuy99]

Not good.

I wonder if there are any survivors?

[scutty brown]

Not good.

I wonder if there are any survivors?

realistically not a chance from the aircraft

[southcoastpunter]

as already said in replies 12 and 13  -  the local police have said: "no survivors from the plane"

[finn5555]

Not good.

I wonder if there are any survivors?

I posted earlier,  reports say zero survivors from the plane. Guess sone from the building only.

[southcoastpunter]

reports seem to be changing a bit (hardly surprising i guess) and now the local police chief is saying (according to the BBC) that 204 bodies have been recovered and 41 people are being treated for injuries.

Lets hope this report is more accurate.

[RandomGuy99]

reports seem to be changing a bit (hardly surprising i guess) and now the local police chief is saying (according to the BBC) that 204 bodies have been recovered and 41 people are being treated for injuries.

Lets hope this report is more accurate.

BBC reports one survivor from the plane.

[chrishornx]

They have said no survivors on the flight 

that is wrong

[myothernameis]

i am no aviation expert either but the one bit of video the BBC keeps showing, shows the plane struggling to get sufficient lift  - landing gear down and no flaps would produce that!

I watch a lot of Air Crash Investigation on National Geographic, and on a few of the episodes where planes have crashed like this, was down to the engines failing and stalling.  With it being a Amercian manufactured plane, its likely the best people NTSB, will head from America to look into the crash reasons

[myothernameis]

BBC reports one survivor from the plane.

From BBC news

We're getting reports of a British survivor from the plane crash.  Ahmedabad Police Commissioner GS Malik tells news agency ANI there is one survivor, who is in seat 11A on the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner flight.

Speaking to ANI, Malik says the survivor "has been in the hospital and is under treatment".  The flight manifest shared earlier by authorities lists the passenger in seat 11A as Vishwash Kumar Ramesh, a British national.

[bigden40]

From BBC news

He was in the emergency exit row and opened the door and jumped

[bigden40]

link to the thread on PPRUNE
External Link/Members Only

This has been a really fascinating read.  Seems a consensus emerging that the plane barely had the power to lift off, may not have had enough speed on the runway, and then didn’t lift landing gear or lower flaps meaning it didn’t have enough lift to get up.  The reasons why that was the case will take some time to understand.

[finn5555]

that is wrong

One survivor but when I posted they said unlikely to be any or you just being a smart arse for the sake of it 

[chrishornx]

One survivor but when I posted they said unlikely to be any or you just being a smart arse for the sake of it 

 

stop changing your mind clever clogs

[chrishornx]

This has been a really fascinating read.  Seems a consensus emerging that the plane barely had the power to lift off, may not have had enough speed on the runway, and then didn’t lift landing gear or lower flaps meaning it didn’t have enough lift to get up.  The reasons why that was the case will take some time to understand.

great read indeed. Scutty produced similar  for the helicopter crash in Washington and that was fascinating

[mr.bluesky]

I watch a lot of Air Crash Investigation on National Geographic, and on a few of the episodes where planes have crashed like this, was down to the engines failing and stalling.  With it being a Amercian manufactured plane, its likely the best people NTSB, will head from America to look into the crash reasons

As it's a Boeing aircraft involved they will also send  out people to help with the investigation.
With their recent track record over the past couple of years they will want to get to the bottom of this. First thing will be to get access to the aircrafts maintenance records especially the last time it was in for maintenance.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

It looks to me that they had a problem with the hydraulic systems and thats possibly why the RAT, Ram air turbine was seeming lowered but the adverse settings of the flaps would have caused that lift then sink as the air cushion effect would have disapated hence and just such a shame nowhere to go, no open spaces just a built up area.

Looks like the tail section was pretty intact i expect the flight recorders have already been removed and will tell what they knon before long...

[DastardlyDick]

I wonder if it's another software error, similar to the Max 8?
If it is, it could see the end of Boeing as a manufacturer.

[southcoastpunter]

stop changing your mind clever clogs

the news coming from the crash scene kept changing - hardly surprising, there must have been a lot of confusion. As i said in one of my previous posts:

reports seem to be changing a bit (hardly surprising i guess) and now the local police chief is saying (according to the BBC) that 204 bodies have been recovered and 41 people are being treated for injuries.

the latest news (which now seems more certain) is that only one passenger (a Brit) survived from the plane!

[DastardlyDick]

the latest news (which now seems more certain) is that only one passenger (a Brit) survived from the plane!

I saw that on the news earlier - he was in remarkably good shape considering what he'd just been through - walking, talking etc!

[Blackpool Rock]

Just read an article about how a student was late to the airport due to bad traffic and pleaded with ground staff to let her on

Fortunately for her they didn't and at the time she wasn't happy about it, almost as miraculous as the guy who walked away, guardian angel or what 

[JohnsonSchlong]

One man survived. He can expect a visit from this gentleman soon enough...

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[maxQ]

I wonder if it's another software error, similar to the Max 8?

Possible, but it would be a bit odd to only see the problem now, on a design thats been in service for over 10 years

If it is, it could see the end of Boeing as a manufacturer.

No, Uncle Sam will not let that happen

[RandomGuy99]

Do they have one flight control system that they put in all the Boeing jets that you could configure to know what type of aircraft it's controlling so length, width, weight, number and power of engines?

[timsussex]

Do they have one flight control system that they put in all the Boeing jets that you could configure to know what type of aircraft it's controlling so length, width, weight, number and power of engines?

each family (737 or 787 0r 777)  is a different generation - one of the problems with 737 max was that it was a development of an old design and made to be as similar as possible to previous versions so as to minimise pilot retraining

there are for example several versions of the 787-8 -9 or -10 ranging from 242-336 passengers

the latest 777 series uses a lot more modern control systems

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Interesting that the man who survived siad that all the cabin lights were flickering badley just before the crash.

So very possibly some power supply system problem and seeing that each engine has a quarter megawatt generator attached may indicate  a severe engine thrust problem but anyway the flight recorders have now been removed and we'll soon see or hear rarther.

How lucky was that girl who got held up in traffic and missed the flight, they it seemed, wouldnt let her on the flight! lucky or fate or what!!...

[RandomGuy99]

Interesting that the man who survived siad that all the cabin lights were flickering badley just before the crash.

So very possibly some power supply system problem and seeing that each engine has a quarter megawatt generator attached may indicate  a severe engine thrust problem but anyway the flight recorders have now been removed and we'll soon see or hear rarther.

How lucky was that girl who got held up in traffic and missed the flight, they it seemed, wouldnt let her on the flight! lucky or fate or what!!...

Final Destination 10

[webpunter]

I would never even contemplate flying on Air India / similar airlines
Reasons an older fleet & perhaps the most important thing pilot training

IMO stick to the likes of the national carriers in europe / north america + canada / Etihad / Singapore Airlines & down under Quantas & ANZ
They spend more money on pilot training & its ongoing
Other airlines pick up trained pilots
& i'd hazard a guess their pilots dont get as much training especially ongoing
BA has a significant [& expensive] pilot training programme & are one of the industry leaders
One thing for sure is that if something goes wrong this is where the pilot training & experience comes to the fore, split second decisions

All the flight search engines focus on price
The chances of the plane getting there not given a 2nd thought
Maybe this crash will make people think about safety, tho not for long

The journos should be delving into whether the major airlines have Air India on the approved list for their pilots to be on
Pilots occasionally have to fly back from wherever they are on another airline with reciprocal arrangements between them
This is different from the banned list of really shite airlines which arent allowed into european other countries airspace 

Air India / Tata have offered £85k per passenger to families
A clever move to dampen things down in India especially as predominantly indian nationals, how much .. really ?   
If there are any passengers from the US lawyers will be licking their lips, that'll be their fees let alone the compo
Unfortunately life is cheap in India

[mr.bluesky]

India and China are the worst countries in the world for manufacturing fake aircraft parts too.
They even produce fraudulent paperwork for these items as all parts fitted to an aircraft have to be traced back to the supplier / manufacturer

[WelshMichael]

Interesting that the man who survived siad that all the cabin lights were flickering badley just before the crash.

So very possibly some power supply system problem and seeing that each engine has a quarter megawatt generator attached may indicate  a severe engine thrust problem but anyway the flight recorders have now been removed and we'll soon see or hear rarther.

How lucky was that girl who got held up in traffic and missed the flight, they it seemed, wouldnt let her on the flight! lucky or fate or what!!...

The Daily Mail ran a story this morning saying that a passenger on the planes' previous flight posted a video showing issues with electrical items like air con, TV screens cabin lights etc not working.

[PepeMAGA]

I would never even contemplate flying on Air India / similar airlines
Reasons an older fleet & perhaps the most important thing pilot training

IMO stick to the likes of the national carriers in europe / north america + canada / Etihad / Singapore Airlines & down under Quantas & ANZ
They spend more money on pilot training & its ongoing
Other airlines pick up trained pilots
& i'd hazard a guess their pilots dont get as much training especially ongoing
BA has a significant [& expensive] pilot training programme & are one of the industry leaders
One thing for sure is that if something goes wrong this is where the pilot training & experience comes to the fore, split second decisions

All the flight search engines focus on price
The chances of the plane getting there not given a 2nd thought
Maybe this crash will make people think about safety, tho not for long

The journos should be delving into whether the major airlines have Air India on the approved list for their pilots to be on
Pilots occasionally have to fly back from wherever they are on another airline with reciprocal arrangements between them
This is different from the banned list of really shite airlines which arent allowed into european other countries airspace 

Air India / Tata have offered £85k per passenger to families
A clever move to dampen things down in India especially as predominantly indian nationals, how much .. really ?   
If there are any passengers from the US lawyers will be licking their lips, that'll be their fees let alone the compo
Unfortunately life is cheap in India

If they skimp on pilots, probably do on service and maintenance staff also

[hairdownthere]

I would never even contemplate flying on Air India / similar airlines
Reasons an older fleet & perhaps the most important thing pilot training

IMO stick to the likes of the national carriers in europe / north america + canada / Etihad / Singapore Airlines & down under Quantas & ANZ
They spend more money on pilot training & its ongoing
Other airlines pick up trained pilots
& i'd hazard a guess their pilots dont get as much training especially ongoing
BA has a significant [& expensive] pilot training programme & are one of the industry leaders
One thing for sure is that if something goes wrong this is where the pilot training & experience comes to the fore, split second decisions

All the flight search engines focus on price
The chances of the plane getting there not given a 2nd thought
Maybe this crash will make people think about safety, tho not for long

The journos should be delving into whether the major airlines have Air India on the approved list for their pilots to be on
Pilots occasionally have to fly back from wherever they are on another airline with reciprocal arrangements between them
This is different from the banned list of really shite airlines which arent allowed into european other countries airspace 

Air India / Tata have offered £85k per passenger to families
A clever move to dampen things down in India especially as predominantly indian nationals, how much .. really ?   
If there are any passengers from the US lawyers will be licking their lips, that'll be their fees let alone the compo
Unfortunately life is cheap in India

I flew Air India a few times in the early 2010's and found the experience better than some NA and European major airlines

Life is cheap everywhere when it comes to compensation

This is interesting...

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[webpunter]

If they skimp on pilots, probably do on service and maintenance staff also

Its only people in the industry who will know which airlines are the best, acceptable & worst at pilot training + maintenance

I'll stick with BA thank you very much [Floozy jet for european stuff if the schedules are better]
A substantial training set up to say the least, rather than outsourcing to flight schools as is the case with other airlines who dont have their own
I know a few BA pilots ongoing training, its constant
& the maintenance programme is enormous, BA have opened their doors for various TV documentaries

As for skimping on stuff who knows ?, however which countries [& their people] have a reputation for constant price negotiation ?
You dont have to look very far to find the answer
UKPers logging on and going onto the next most likely website there will be stuff right in front of them if they choose to look
Its the same in business, selling houses & cars ['best price ?'] 
Its a cultural thing & it would be naieve to think that this doesnt permeate across to the airline sector

& as posted by @mr.b its an added worry that india are amongst the leaders in the production of fake aircraft parts 

I'm not being airline racist i just wont fly on airlines from india / similar as i posted

As an aside i'd fly on Jet2 no probs they've got a good rep & cool TV ads
& this is how people from up-north go on holiday 

[webpunter]

I should have mentioned Virgin too rather than just BA
I've banged a few hosties, from both airlines 
They get intensive training too
So if things go pear shaped they also know what to do to help keep passengers safe as possible