North Sea collision

[WASA38]

Most  likely a case of smelling a non-existent rat but how on earth with all modern aids to safe marine navigation can an adequately equipped ship (which just happens to be carrying an ultra-toxic chemical) ram a stationary tanker loaded with jet fuel intended for the near universally detested USA ? All at a time of heightened tensions occasioned by a European war.
Added to which, contrary to earlier reports, one crew member of the ramming ship is now apparently unaccounted for.

Sounds like the plot of a TV drama.

Let us all hope that a really severe environmental disaster can be averted.  The omens are not good but the initial response was evidently exemplary.

[RandomGuy99]

It sounds like they had left the bridge unattended as the container ship hit the moored oil tanker and apparently kept going for what felt like 10 minutes according to the crew of the oil tanker.

If someone had been on the bridge then they 1) would have seen the oil tanker and steered away 2) stopped the engines immediately.

It appears to have been a very basic human failure.

[RandomGuy99]

considering what happened the oil tanker doesn't look too bad. A bit crispy from the fire and sextion of the hull pushed in but it could have been a lot worse.

[Pillowtalk]

It's likely that at least one of the vessels was out of position and at least one was negligent in its watch keeping duties. No doubt a board of enquiry will establish to facts.

[scutty brown]

the jet fuel belongs to the USA military, so very a convenient crash for Russia.

But this kind of attack has been thought about for years, ever since the Stuxnet virus appeared. In principle a derivative of Stuxnet could be used to disrupt control of ships in this way by interfering with the SCADA controllers.
Around 14 years ago I was asked to clean up an infected laptop - which the diagnostic software I used identified as infected with Stuxnet. That laptop was apparently affected when plugged into the network on a Russian tanker sailing out of Libya.....
Fifteen years on with much more development its easy to see how the ships steering could be remotely interfered with

Son of Stuxnet
It was always assumed that Stuxnet would come back to bite us in the ass one day.
Of course you'll never get official confirmation of this

[scutty brown]

considering what happened the oil tanker doesn't look too bad. A bit crispy from the fire and sextion of the hull pushed in but it could have been a lot worse.

That section that's "pushed in" looks like a breach and could develop into a split breaking the ship in half. Potentially bigger risk than it looks.
Also you've got potentially around 600 tonnes of sodium cyanide on the cargo ship......that's a major ecological disaster and an immediate threat to anyone getting close to the ship. Could require the closure of a  large section of the area, including the shoreline, for years
This is going to be a nightmare, and if a connection to Russia is found should be treated as chemical warfare

[RandomGuy99]

That section that's "pushed in" looks like a breach and could develop into a split breaking the ship in half. Potentially bigger risk than it looks.
Also you've got potentially around 600 tonnes of sodium cyanide on the cargo ship......that's a major ecological disaster and an immediate threat to anyone getting close to the ship. Could require the closure of a  large section of the area, including the shoreline, for years
This is going to be a nightmare, and if a connection to Russia is found should be treated as chemical warfare

I doubt there's any connection to Russia. It'll be basic human error combined with low visibility and bang. The black boxes will show what happened. The fuel was probably destined for a US air force based in Norfolk or a Carrier battle group for refueling fighter jets. They'll work around it.

[RandomGuy99]

The cargo ship looks well knackered

[Squire Haggard]

It reminds me of a similar collision many years ago. The crew of one ship were watching Juventus playing an important game.

My guess is human error/negligence is to blame for this one. There was mist at the time as well.

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[RandomGuy99]

It reminds me of a similar collision many years ago. The crew of one ship were watching Juventus playing an important game.

My guess is human error/negligence is to blame for this one. There was mist at the time as well.

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and the containers ship was coming down the east coast and crashed into the fuel tanker which was at anchor of the coast. Someone should have spotted it on radar or visually although visibility was bad

[Squire Haggard]

and the containers ship was coming down the east coast and crashed into the fuel tanker which was at anchor of the coast. Someone should have spotted it on radar or visually although visibility was bad

Juventus might have been playing again, or maybe someone went for a dump at the wrong time. 

[chrishornx]

That section that's "pushed in" looks like a breach and could develop into a split breaking the ship in half. Potentially bigger risk than it looks.
Also you've got potentially around 600 tonnes of sodium cyanide on the cargo ship......that's a major ecological disaster and an immediate threat to anyone getting close to the ship. Could require the closure of a  large section of the area, including the shoreline, for years
This is going to be a nightmare, and if a connection to Russia is found should be treated as chemical warfare

let's stop all the speculation there were no containers sodium cyanide so catastrophe avoided.

why should the Russians be involved? Are we going to have russian speculation for every major accident ?

[scutty brown]

interesting insight into it
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the scale and rapidity of reaction of the various oil/gas/wind turbine support vessels was remarkable

[chrishornx]

It reminds me of a similar collision many years ago. The crew of one ship were watching Juventus playing an important game.

My guess is human error/negligence is to blame for this one. There was mist at the time as well.

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it wasn't a collision

[chrishornx]

interesting insight into it
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the scale and rapidity of reaction of the various oil/gas/wind turbine support vessels was remarkable

factually incorrect

 he says all crew safely recovered - they weren't, one is still missing

he says there were 15 containers of sodium cyanide - there weren't

he says it was collIsion. It wasn't

and that is in the first 5 minutes

[RandomGuy99]

factually incorrect

 he says all crew safely recovered - they weren't, one is still missing

he says there were 15 containers of sodium cyanide - there weren't

he says it was collIsion. It wasn't

and that is in the first 5 minutes

It definitely was a collison.

The container ship does have some containers on that had contained sodium cyanide and they are being monitored.

[chrishornx]

It definitely was a collison.

The container ship does have some containers on that had contained sodium cyanide and they are being monitored.

 had or did contain sodium cyanide?

in the lazy man's world it can be called a collision but check your nautical terms. A 'collision' at sea is two moving vehicles striking each other. Where a moving vessel strikes a stationary object, such as an anchored vessel or a rock that is known as an allision which is amore accurate nautical term for what happened

[RandomGuy99]

 had or did contain sodium cyanide?

in the lazy man's world it can be called a collision but check your nautical terms. A 'collision' at sea is two moving vehicles striking each other. Where a moving vessel strikes a stationary object, such as an anchored vessel or a rock that is known as an allision which is amore accurate nautical term for what happened

In layman's terms two things bumping into each other is considered a collision.

Had contained. I'm guessing they had the labels and warning signs on the outside of the containers, which might be why they were initially suspected of containing sodium cyanide. I wourather treat them carefully just in case and be found wrong than the other way round.

[daviemac]

factually incorrect

he says it was collIsion. It wasn't

Must admit I haven't read much about it but my understanding is the container ship collided with the tanker that was at anchor. Are you saying it's all fake news and the collision didn't happen?   

Edit

Having read your last post I should have known you are just being pedantic so I'll leave you to it.

[DastardlyDick]

why should the Russians be involved? Are we going to have russian speculation for every major accident ?

I agree there's a lot of ridiculous speculation going on, but the Russians have a large "ghost fleet" at their disposal, as well as recent 'form' for sabotage using it.

[chrishornx]

Must admit I haven't read much about it but my understanding is the container ship collided with the tanker that was at anchor. Are you saying it's all fake news and the collision didn't happen?   

no I am not

when two moving ships hit each other it is a collision

more specifically if a moving ship hits a stationary ship, or other non-moving item such as a pier or rock than that is nautically known as an allision

[scutty brown]

why should the Russians be involved? Are we going to have russian speculation for every major accident ?

1) The potential loss of a lot of military aviation fuel plus the actual loss of one of ten such ships dedicated to shipping such fuel for the US military would be quite a strategic blow.
2) It's only a few weeks since the UK Army and Associated British Ports agreed a long-term relationship whereby the Army switched to use Hull and Immingham instead of Marchwood as its port for links to Europe. With the entrance to the Humber currently restricted our ability to send reinforcements to Europe is restricted. In the event of that tanker exploding, and/or a major environmental disaster ocurring the Humber ports could be put out of action for a considerable period.

[RandomGuy99]

no I am not

when two moving ships hit each other it is a collision

more specifically if a moving ship hits a stationary ship, or other non-moving item such as a pier or rock than that is nautically known as an allision

Tell that to the insurance companies

[RandomGuy99]

1) The potential loss of a lot of military aviation fuel plus the actual loss of one of ten such ships dedicated to shipping such fuel for the US military would be quite a strategic blow.
2) It's only a few weeks since the UK Army and Associated British Ports agreed a long-term relationship whereby the Army switched to use Hull and Immingham instead of Marchwood as its port for links to Europe. With the entrance to the Humber currently restricted our ability to send reinforcements to Europe is restricted. In the event of that tanker exploding, and/or a major environmental disaster ocurring the Humber ports could be put out of action for a considerable period.

I think the ship was not owned by the US government. It was US flagged and contracted to the US government, so they can get another one but apparently there aren't many US flagged ships because the US government has the right to contract them for their purposes.

[daviemac]

Tell that to the insurance companies

Oh for a perfect world where nobody says Viagra when they mean Sildenafil, Hoover when they mean vacuum cleaner, Elastoplast when they mean sticking plaster, Kleenex when they mean tissue etc etc and of course collision when they mean allision.   

[PilotMan]

I've got a shipment coming on the MSC China, due to arrive at Felixstowe any day now, it's currently in Zeebrugge.

Hopefully it won't be delayed.

[RandomGuy99]

Oh for a perfect world where nobody says Viagra when they mean Sildenafil, Hoover when they mean vacuum cleaner, Elastoplast when they mean sticking plaster, Kleenex when they mean tissue etc etc and of course collision when they mean allision.   

Saying Hoover instead of vacuum cleaner matters in some countries. I once asked for a Hoover while standing in the vacuum cleaner section and the salesperson told they didn't have any and I was like "Really? There's about 30 here."

[WASA38]

I gather someone has now been charged for criminal negligence.

Collision or allision? Perhaps ramming is a more concisely descriptive term. Calling it a collision is a bit like calling the episode 10 days ago in the White House an argument rather than an ambush.

[Blackpool Rock]

Juventus might have been playing again, or maybe someone went for a dump at the wrong time. 

I have to admit my 1st thought was whether someone went for a shit while the ship was on auto pilot, anyway if that is the case then they are in deep shit now as a 59 year old man has been arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter

[scutty brown]

I think the ship was not owned by the US government. It was US flagged and contracted to the US government, so they can get another one but apparently there aren't many US flagged ships because the US government has the right to contract them for their purposes.

As I understand it, it was specifically built (ironically in China) for the USA strategic distribution contract. There were production grants paid in return for the USA registration

[scutty brown]

I've got a shipment coming on the MSC China, due to arrive at Felixstowe any day now, it's currently in Zeebrugge.

Hopefully it won't be delayed.

Felixstowe isn't on the Humber so unlikely to be affected

[RandomGuy99]

As I understand it, it was specifically built (ironically in China) for the USA strategic distribution contract. There were production grants paid in return for the USA registration

It's owned by Stena Bulk not the US government

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The Tanker Security Program was launched in 2023. The ship was built in 2017

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"Participating vessels receive up to $6 million per year in exchange for their availability during times of national need. The program currently supports approximately 2,400 highly trained, skilled U.S. merchant mariners."

[chrishornx]

1) The potential loss of a lot of military aviation fuel plus the actual loss of one of ten such ships dedicated to shipping such fuel for the US military would be quite a strategic blow.
2) It's only a few weeks since the UK Army and Associated British Ports agreed a long-term relationship whereby the Army switched to use Hull and Immingham instead of Marchwood as its port for links to Europe. With the entrance to the Humber currently restricted our ability to send reinforcements to Europe is restricted. In the event of that tanker exploding, and/or a major environmental disaster ocurring the Humber ports could be put out of action for a considerable period.

you could make up such conspiracies every time a ship sinks, a train derails, a plane crash lands or a jackknife lorry blocks the M1 for 12 hours

[chrishornx]

Tell that to the insurance companies

not sure what point you are making there they know fully about the definition and it doesn't bother them at all

[RandomGuy99]

not sure what point you are making there they know fully about the definition and it doesn't bother them at all

Ok, tell is to all the papers and other media who are all reporting it as a collision.

[chrishornx]

Oh for a perfect world where nobody says Viagra when they mean Sildenafil, Hoover when they mean vacuum cleaner, Elastoplast when they mean sticking plaster, Kleenex when they mean tissue etc etc and of course collision when they mean allision.   

oh what world it would be. Be it theft or fraud, be it public liability or errors and omissions, , be it accidental loss or theft, business interruption or credit, be it employer's liability or personal accident - it would all be so easy 

[Ghost89]

I suspect Uncle Albert was at the helm of the striking ship.

[Blackpool Rock]

I suspect Uncle Albert was at the helm of the striking ship.

Remember when he said something about being on a charge for sinking a ship but he argued it was wartime and they weren't using lights, then they got him on a technicality that it was daylight 

[chrishornx]

Remember when he said something about being on a charge for sinking a ship but he argued it was wartime and they weren't using lights, then they got him on a technicality that it was daylight 

great stuff

[daviemac]

oh what world it would be. Be it theft or fraud, be it public liability or errors and omissions, , be it accidental loss or theft, business interruption or credit, be it employer's liability or personal accident - it would all be so easy

I make no secret of the fact pedants are a pet hate of mine, as a personal opinion they are just tossers, as long as people know what is meant what does it matter what the official term is. 

One ship collided with another ship in the north sea and a sailor lost his life yet all some people are concerned about is telling the whole world they are using the wrong word to describe the incident. It beggars belief.

[Adoniron]

I gather someone has now been charged for criminal negligence.

Collision or allision? Perhaps ramming is a more concisely descriptive term. Calling it a collision is a bit like calling the episode 10 days ago in the White House an argument rather than an ambush.

The master of the container ship has been arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter but not charged. It will be months before anyone is charged.

[radioman33]

North Sea Hijack was the film I thought of,it’s like we’re going into a mad world. 

[RandomGuy99]

North Sea Hijack was the film I thought of,it’s like we’re going into a mad world. 

It was just an accident. They happen.

[DastardlyDick]

I make no secret of the fact pedants are a pet hate of mine, as a personal opinion they are just tossers, as long as people know what is meant what does it matter what the official term is. 

As DM is ( I believe) suggesting, the papers and other media will use words that the average man/woman on the street will readily understand rather than a narrow technical term only used by Insurers and/or specialist Investigators. Fwiw, I agree.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

In a collision, two moving objects strike each other; for example, two passing ships. An allision, however, involves an accident where only one of the objects is moving. For instance, this maritime term can refer to an accident where a moving boat runs into a stationary bridge fender.

[RandomGuy99]

A collision refers to an event where two or more objects come into contact with each other, typically with force. In different contexts, collisions can have various meanings:

1. **Physics**: A collision occurs when two or more objects interact with each other, often with a transfer of energy. This can be elastic (where objects bounce off each other without permanent deformation) or inelastic (where objects may stick together or deform).

2. **Computer Science**: In computing, a collision might refer to two different pieces of data that hash to the same value or location in a hash table, which can lead to conflicts in data retrieval or storage.

3. **Traffic**: A collision can also mean a car accident or crash involving vehicles, pedestrians, or other objects.

In all cases, the key element is the interaction or impact between objects or entities.

[chrishornx]

In a collision, two moving objects strike each other; for example, two passing ships. An allision, however, involves an accident where only one of the objects is moving. For instance, this maritime term can refer to an accident where a moving boat runs into a stationary bridge fender.

and few can understand the significant difference between the 2 terms in the marine world

[RandomGuy99]

Oxford English Dictionary definition

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Both terms collision and allision are valid words to use to describe this situation.

Night! night!

[chrishornx]

Oxford English Dictionary definition

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Both terms collision and allision are valid words to use to describe this situation.

Night! night!

you still miss the significant difference

sweet dreams

[daviemac]

you still miss the significant difference

sweet dreams

It doesn't matter, everybody in the world understands what happened, it's only you who's making a big thing about it and that shows what type of person you are. You couldn't give a shit about the loss of life as long as you can make your mouth go and try to make yourself look big on a punting forum.

You're not clever mate, anything but. Stop derailing the thread.