French woman who stopped having sex with her husband wins appeal over divorce

[PumpDump]

Given that a lot of members punt because their wives don't "put out" anyone, this is an interesting one:

External Link/Members Only

Call me old-fashioned but sex is an integral part of marriage. If you decide to stop having sex with your spouse then the fault of the divorce is with you. Same as if you decided to stop talking to your spouse.

[MissWolf]

I think being called or thought of as old fashioned is mild,

The sanction of marriage doesn't guarantee sex, the cessation of sex within a marriage does not constitute a breach of marital vows or obligation.

The key bits of the successful appeal were for me these....

"In the Court's view, consent to marriage could not imply consent to future sexual relations," the ECHR said. "Such an interpretation would be tantamount to denying that marital rape was reprehensible in nature."

The ECHR added it "concluded that the very existence of such a marital obligation ran counter to sexual freedom" and to France's obligation to combat domestic and sexual violence.

Do you not think that sexual violence and rape occur within a marriage or relationship?

Is domestic abuse a non entity? In any form......M to F or F to M etc

How do you know her claims of cruelty, sexual abuse and violence are not true?

We should always remember that there are 3 sides to every story, side A, side B and the truth

Imo the appeal court got it right and going forward i feel that the French courts will be looking on such cases differently after the Pelicot case.

[hairdownthere]

Given that a lot of members punt because their wives don't "put out" anyone, this is an interesting one:

External Link/Members Only

Call me old-fashioned but sex is an integral part of marriage. If you decide to stop having sex with your spouse then the fault of the divorce is with you. Same as if you decided to stop talking to your spouse.

A deep emotional connection is the most important part of a marriage, not sex

[southcoastpunter]

A deep emotional connection is the most important part of a marriage, not sex

for you - not necessarily for everyone!

[Blackpool Rock]

A deep emotional connection is the most important part of a marriage, not sex

Says the guy with 25 reviews   

[SoapyTW]

Given that a lot of members punt because their wives don't "put out" anyone, this is an interesting one:

External Link/Members Only

Call me old-fashioned but sex is an integral part of marriage. If you decide to stop having sex with your spouse then the fault of the divorce is with you. Same as if you decided to stop talking to your spouse.

100% - I agree that that behaviour would be reasonable grounds

Something people overlook with a monogamous relationship agreement is that depriving somebody of the sexual relationship is the same as bringing another person into it. Monogamy is to be in sexual relationship with only one partner. ONE. Not two. Not three. But also not zero. If somebody removes that part of a relationship, they have broken the agreement.
I'm not sure it's enough to be enough to warrant a divorce, but there is certainly a fault in the relationship at that point. I'd certainly not complain about somebody 'playing away' if the wife had done that, and I don't think the wife should complain either in that case if they want a viable relationship going forwards

[hairdownthere]

Says the guy with 25 reviews   

Long time single, and very happy!

[SoapyTW]

Long time single, and very happy!

[mills_and_bhuna]

Call me old-fashioned but sex is an integral part of marriage. If you decide to stop having sex with your spouse then the fault of the divorce is with you. Same as if you decided to stop talking to your spouse.

That's a bit simplistic.
There are going to be hundreds of reasons a wife stops having or wanting a sexual relationship with her husband.
She might be fed up being slapped or punched.
She might be exhausted because she has a job AND does all the housework, childcare , etc.
She might have OCD and refuse sex because he doesn't load the dishwasher in an ergonomic way.
She might have realised he's shite in bed since she had a quickie with a work colleague.
You will have noticed things aren't as simple when humans are concerned.

[Blackpool Rock]

Long time single, and very happy!

[PumpDump]

That's a bit simplistic.
There are going to be hundreds of reasons a wife stops having or wanting a sexual relationship with her husband.
She might be fed up being slapped or punched.
She might be exhausted because she has a job AND does all the housework, childcare , etc.
She might have OCD and refuse sex because he doesn't load the dishwasher in an ergonomic way.
She might have realised he's shite in bed since she had a quickie with a work colleague.
You will have noticed things aren't as simple when humans are concerned.

All true. And they are valid reasons. My point is when sex stops, regardless of the reason, then you are no longer lovers, you are now friends. It is no longer a marriage.
 

[mills_and_bhuna]

All true. And they are valid reasons. My point is when sex stops, regardless of the reason, then you are no longer lovers, you are now friends. It is no longer a marriage.

Rubbish. There are couples in their 70s maybe haven't had sex for 20 years and are happy gardening and holding hands.
I think they maybe would take offence at their marriage being considered invalid.

[RedKettle]

That's a bit simplistic.
There are going to be hundreds of reasons a wife stops having or wanting a sexual relationship with her husband.
She might be fed up being slapped or punched.
She might be exhausted because she has a job AND does all the housework, childcare , etc.
She might have OCD and refuse sex because he doesn't load the dishwasher in an ergonomic way.
She might have realised he's shite in bed since she had a quickie with a work colleague.
You will have noticed things aren't as simple when humans are concerned.

The husband has turned into a fat bastard - I think that might be the problem close to home for me!!

[DastardlyDick]

Rubbish. There are couples in their 70s maybe haven't had sex for 20 years and are happy gardening and holding hands.
I think they maybe would take offence at their marriage being considered invalid.

+1
She was 57 at the time of the divorce, so the menopause could have been why she didn't want sex. That's the most obvious reason, but there are many more.

[Munter84]

I don't want to comment on this case specifically because the husband sounds like a wrong'un, but worth noting that (in the UK at least), a lack of affection, intimacy and/or sex can be cited as examples of "unreasonable behaviour" when filing for divorce. As can a bunch of other behavious of course, including excessive sexual demands or infidelity.

In that regard I think the ECHR is making a wrong-headed judgement in declaring that consent to marriage doesn't imply consent to future sexual relations (and the subsequent rambling about spousal rape is a non-sequitur). When you get into a monogamous relationship with someone, the tacit agreement is that you're taking on the sole responsibility for your partner's sexual fulfilment. Saying "I don't want sex tonight" is equivalent to "Neither of us is having sex tonight".

The article doesn't say what, if any, negative effects her husband's counter claim had on her (shifting a measure of the blame of the breakdown of the marriage to her) - perhaps the whole case was just on gronds of principle? 

[Blackpool Rock]

The husband has turned into a fat bastard - I think that might be the problem close to home for me!!

What your husbands put on a few Lbs then   

[Doc Holliday]

'Conjugal Rights' have not existed as a legal entity in Marriage in the UK since 1971.

There is an expectation that Marriage will involve a level of intimacy including physical ... but love is a complex concept. Sex may be part of that but frequently isn't an important requirement and many couples live happily in a very loving relationship without it. There are also marriages were mutually enjoyable consensual sex is in an abundance, but other aspects of the relationship cause issues and ultimately breakdown of the marriage.

As I have said many times before, discussion about sex and marriage on a punting forum will always be unbalanced, as sex is of greater importance to most contributors which is why we are here. This produces a distorted view of what is the norm in life.

We now have no fault divorce in UK, but even prior to that lack of sex alone as 'unreasonable behaviour' was not a primary reason given in seeking divorce. Indeed there are many punters who consider themselves to be in very loving marriages who would be devastated if they lost that, but where sex is absent.

[Doc Holliday]

That's a bit simplistic.
There are going to be hundreds of reasons a wife stops having or wanting a sexual relationship with her husband.
She might be fed up being slapped or punched.
She might be exhausted because she has a job AND does all the housework, childcare , etc.
She might have OCD and refuse sex because he doesn't load the dishwasher in an ergonomic way.
She might have realised he's shite in bed since she had a quickie with a work colleague.
You will have noticed things aren't as simple when humans are concerned.

That gets a 'Like'

[mr.bluesky]

The husband has turned into a fat bastard - I think that might be the problem close to home for me!!

Think of yourself as "cuddly" not fat. That's how chubby* service providers describe themselves .
(* I mean cuddly service providers)

[RogerHealey]

'Conjugal Rights' have not existed as a legal entity in Marriage in the UK since 1971.

There is an expectation that Marriage will involve a level of intimacy including physical ... but love is a complex concept. Sex may be part of that but frequently isn't an important requirement and many couples live happily in a very loving relationship without it. There are also marriages were mutually enjoyable consensual sex is in an abundance, but other aspects of the relationship cause issues and ultimately breakdown of the marriage.

As I have said many times before, discussion about sex and marriage on a punting forum will always be unbalanced, as sex is of greater importance to most contributors which is why we are here. This produces a distorted view of what is the norm in life.

We now have no fault divorce in UK, but even prior to that lack of sex alone as 'unreasonable behaviour' was not a primary reason given in seeking divorce. Indeed there are many punters who consider themselves to be in very loving marriages who would be devastated if they lost that, but where sex is absent.

That gets a like too.

[Thephoenix]

If you're in a loving relationship you're lucky. Be thankful.
If you're in a loving relationship which includes regular sex you're very lucky. Be very thankful.

You may decide to seek sex elsewhere, but love is irreplaceable.

[Ali Katt]

The husband has turned into a fat bastard - I think that might be the problem close to home for me!!

It's quite common that the woman puts on weight and doesn't feel attractive, so doesn't want to have sex with the man, even though he still finds her attractive despite the weight gain.

[advent2016]

Given that a lot of members punt because their wives don't "put out" anyone, this is an interesting one:

External Link/Members Only

Call me old-fashioned but sex is an integral part of marriage. If you decide to stop having sex with your spouse then the fault of the divorce is with you. Same as if you decided to stop talking to your spouse.

Mostly why I punt. After 30 years sex was boring but the cuddling, breakfast in bed, washing and ironing, taxi service when pissed, on my arm at balls etc and I could punt a different SP twice a week (and use every orifice) and still wake up next to a nice girl. Before we split, whenever I asked, she would have missionary sex (but sadly no more BJ) on demand but started saying she didn't enjoy it any more after a few kids and a H-op.
I don't think she never suspected I was punting or had another girlfriend.  I've had another LTGF and I seem to have a superpower to turn a nympho into a girl that loves cleaning, ironing, cooking, travelling and being the perfect wife. So maybe I'm actually crap at sex after all and paying for it is my perfect solution.