Los Angeles fires

[PepeMAGA]

I doubt it - Trump is notorious for withholding funding from those who didn't vote for him.

Is this a second politics thread?

[mills_and_bhuna]

External Link/Members Only
Interesting stuff.
Giving control of a state's water to a billionaire nut farmer .
What could possibly go wrong?

[chrishornx]

He has nothing to lose - he can't have a third term, unless him and the GOP manage to change the Constitution.
He (probably) has 2 years to get as much change through both Houses of Congress before the mid term elections make him a lame duck President, which US voters are (in)famous for doing.

getting political

[mills_and_bhuna]

Is this a second politics thread?

It's like half the threads on here.
When blame starts to be apportioned, politicians will be in the firing line

[RandomGuy99]

I signed up for basic woodworking at the local college.

[DastardlyDick]

I signed up for basic woodworking at the local college.

Is that a euphemism? 

[RandomGuy99]

Is that a euphemism? 

I think that's the whittling class next door.

[daviemac]

He has nothing to lose - he can't have a third term, unless him and the GOP manage to change the Constitution.
He (probably) has 2 years to get as much change through both Houses of Congress before the mid term elections make him a lame duck President, which US voters are (in)famous for doing.

Why do people insist on making political posts away from the dedicated political thread when they know it can lead to a ban?   

[Neo]

I see James Woods lost his house. Or one of them.
I'm finding it hard to muster any sympathy for this monumental POS given his pronouncements on Gaza over the last year.

Just read the initial bbc article and it seems his gaff is still standing sadly.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Why do people insist on making political posts away from the dedicated political thread when they know it can lead to a ban?   

Trouble is Davie that there bloody politics in almost everything. OK not maybe braying left/right as per the house of commons stuff but political all the smae just a differnt format even affects footie to an extent;!.

And it does affect our fave sex game to...

[daviemac]

Trouble is Davie that there bloody politics in almost everything. OK not maybe braying left/right as per the house of commons stuff but political all the smae just a differnt format even affects footie to an extent;!.

And it does affect our fave sex game to...

Genuine question, what has -

He has nothing to lose - he can't have a third term, unless him and the GOP manage to change the Constitution.
He (probably) has 2 years to get as much change through both Houses of Congress before the mid term elections make him a lame duck President, which US voters are (in)famous for doing.

and previous posts about Trump as president and his policies got to do with the fires. 

If you can't post on a topic without bringing government policies into it don't post. 

 

[george r]

saw firefighters had arrived from Mexico and Canada to help ?
surely they have enough in the USA without outside help ?

[jackdaw]

saw firefighters had arrived from Mexico and Canada to help ?
surely they have enough in the USA without outside help ?

Yes.

I’m maybe a stony hearted bar steward, but must admit I’m finding it hard to shed a tear for some of the hard luck cases featured in recent days.

One guy was moaning because due to to difficult of insuring houses in the area, his compo will be limited to “a couple of million per house”, though they are worth a lot more than that. (He owned 2).

[catweazle]

Apparently Me-again and Hazno visited the scene.... accompanied by their own TV crew. Generally nothing that pair of grifters surprises me these days, but that is plain disgusting.

[hairdownthere]

Yes.

I’m maybe a stony hearted bar steward, but must admit I’m finding it hard to shed a tear for some of the hard luck cases featured in recent days.

One guy was moaning because due to to difficult of insuring houses in the area, his compo will be limited to “a couple of million per house”, though they are worth a lot more than that. (He owned 2).

It doesn't matter if the houses are worth a tenner or 10 million, these people still need to rebuild, and that will cost money.  Just because he had 2 multi-million dollar houses doesn't mean he is cash rich.   He might not be able to rebuild to the lifestyle he was used to.

Turn that around, if your home, possessions and car were destroyed, and possibly your source of income, how would you feel if the insurance you have didn't cover a fraction of what it would cost to get back to the lifestyle you have at the moment?

[RandomGuy99]

. ... how would you feel if the insurance you have didn't cover a fraction of what it would cost to get back to the lifestyle you have at the moment?

Stupid as I should have had adequate insurance in place.

[hairdownthere]

Stupid as I should have had adequate insurance in place.

These folk in LA can't get adequate insurance though, that's the problem.

I worked in insurance here for a few years and the tricks they play to try get out of paying, or paying as little as possible, are incredible.  The slightest thing will invalidate your cover, a couple I remember...

House fire due to electrical issues, didn't pay out as the owner didn't use a qualified electrician to change light bulbs to LED bulbs.
House flood due to washing machine, didn't pay out as the owner didn't use a qualified plumber to plumb in a washing machine - fitted years before.

A lot of folk in the UK can't get insurance against flood, my own insurance states that flooding is not covered, thankfully I'm near the top of a hill.

[advent2016]

Paris Hilton lost her house, but all of her dogs, seemingly are ok

I bet Ms Hilton can find a hotel to live in until her house is rebuilt

[mills_and_bhuna]

saw firefighters had arrived from Mexico and Canada to help ?
surely they have enough in the USA without outside help ?

1. They have been cutting corners to save money.
2. They have been using prison Labour as fire crews (paying them $1 an hour (there's apparently a loophole in the 13th amendment ))

[jackdaw]

It doesn't matter if the houses are worth a tenner or 10 million, these people still need to rebuild, and that will cost money.  Just because he had 2 multi-million dollar houses doesn't mean he is cash rich.   He might not be able to rebuild to the lifestyle he was used to.

Turn that around, if your home, possessions and car were destroyed, and possibly your source of income, how would you feel if the insurance you have didn't cover a fraction of what it would cost to get back to the lifestyle you have at the moment?

Come on…those rich Americans will have far more resources to rebuild than some poor geezer other side of the world whose wooden shack is destroyed in a storm.

That guy moaning might have to put up with living in a 2 million dollar house. “Cry me a river”!

Of course, wealth makes a profound difference in life.

[chrishornx]

A lot of folk in the UK can't get insurance against flood, my own insurance states that flooding is not covered, thankfully I'm near the top of a hill.

you have very odd insurance if you live at the top of a hill and can't get flood insurance as it is usually included as standard and you should have it

[hairdownthere]

Come on…those rich Americans will have far more resources to rebuild than some poor geezer other side of the world whose wooden shack is destroyed in a storm.

That guy moaning might have to put up with living in a 2 million dollar house. “Cry me a river”!

Of course, wealth makes a profound difference in life.

A $2m house isn't much in LA, average price is verging on $1m and will only increase once folk start looking for new homes, or buying new plots to build on.  Only the cash-rich will be able to rebuild easily, those whose money is tied up in their property wont. 

That guy with the destroyed shack on the other side of the world will be able to rebuild quicker, because he probably built it himself with his own hands in the first place.

Would you be happy if your say 400k house in a nice area was destroyed and all you could get was a 200k one in a shite area?  You wouldn't, I wouldn't be either.  We all have lifestyles that we've grown used to and most of us don't want to change them.

These folk in LA, poor or rich, that have lost their homes, possessions, pets etc are all in the same boat - devastated and facing a hell of an expensive few years ahead of them.

[chrishornx]

Would you be happy if your say 400k house in a nice area was destroyed and all you could get was a 200k one in a shite area?  You wouldn't, I wouldn't be either.  We all have lifestyles that we've grown used to and most of us don't want to change them.

slight lack of logic there.

 Are you suggesting that someone living in $400,000 house in the Palisades would now be only able to afford buying a $200,000 house in a different neighbourhood? You seem to forget that a huge element of the $400,000 house in Palisades is down to the plot of land in such nice area.

The rebuild cost in timber of a similar house would be les than $200,000 as much of the market value is down to location.

[jackdaw]

A $2m house isn't much in LA, average price is verging on $1m and will only increase once folk start looking for new homes, or buying new plots to build on.  Only the cash-rich will be able to rebuild easily, those whose money is tied up in their property wont. 

That guy with the destroyed shack on the other side of the world will be able to rebuild quicker, because he probably built it himself with his own hands in the first place.

Would you be happy if your say 400k house in a nice area was destroyed and all you could get was a 200k one in a shite area?  You wouldn't, I wouldn't be either.  We all have lifestyles that we've grown used to and most of us don't want to change them.

These folk in LA, poor or rich, that have lost their homes, possessions, pets etc are all in the same boat - devastated and facing a hell of an expensive few years ahead of them.

Deep down I don’t really believe that.

Those rich guys have the option of scaling down and still being in great material comfort. Not an option for people with far fewer material possessions.

Put it this way..when disaster strikes in third world countries I usually make a modest donation to DEC fund. Not remotely tempted to make a charitable donation in this case.

Are you?? Is anybody else on this site??

[Doc Holliday]

Not remotely tempted to make a charitable donation in this case.

Are you?? Is anybody else on this site??

I would give Paris Hilton a very small 'donation' 

[hairdownthere]

you have very odd insurance if you live at the top of a hill and can't get flood insurance as it is usually included as standard and you should have it

The general area I live in has suffered from flooding in the past few years, so insurers don't cover flooding here.  Water damage through burst pipes is covered, but not flood.  Insurance cover is very generic, which is how they get out of paying out.

As an aside, a lot of insurance policies don't cover 'Acts of God' which includes external forces - flood, fire (inc lightning strikes), wind and earth movement (landslide, subsidence etc) especially on newer builds.

[jackdaw]

I would give Paris Hilton a very small 'donation' 

😂😂

Not for the first time, you’ve proven me wrong, because so would I.

[RandomGuy99]

These folk in LA can't get adequate insurance though, that's the problem.

I worked in insurance here for a few years and the tricks they play to try get out of paying, or paying as little as possible, are incredible.  The slightest thing will invalidate your cover, a couple I remember...

House fire due to electrical issues, didn't pay out as the owner didn't use a qualified electrician to change light bulbs to LED bulbs.
House flood due to washing machine, didn't pay out as the owner didn't use a qualified plumber to plumb in a washing machine - fitted years before.

A lot of folk in the UK can't get insurance against flood, my own insurance states that flooding is not covered, thankfully I'm near the top of a hill.

But the state has imposed restrictions. I think any insurance company not paying out will be ruined by the media, so they'll just do it.  Some of this will get back to Lloyds of London as they're probably insuring some of areas or providing reinsurance to cover other insurance companies' losses.

External Link/Members Only

[RandomGuy99]

1. They have been cutting corners to save money.
2. They have been using prison Labour as fire crews (paying them $1 an hour (there's apparently a loophole in the 13th amendment ))

On 2, they're allowed to. It's a standard thing. The arsonists must love it.

BBC News - Hundreds of California prison inmates fight wildfires - and stigma
External Link/Members Only

[hairdownthere]

Deep down I don’t really believe that.

Those rich guys have the option of scaling down and still being in great material comfort. Not an option for people with far fewer material possessions.

Put it this way..when disaster strikes in third world countries I usually make a modest donation to DEC fund. Not remotely tempted to make a charitable donation in this case.

Are you?? Is anybody else on this site??

I don't make donations to third world disasters, you don't know where your money is going.

Of course the rich folk have the option to downsize and still be very comfortable, but only if they are CASH rich, you can have all the possessions in the world but they are worth nothing unless you have money when its needed.  Are they not allowed to express dismay if they want to have the lifestyle that they have at the moment?  At the end of the day they are people like you and me. 

[chrishornx]

The general area I live in has suffered from flooding in the past few years, so insurers don't cover flooding here.  Water damage through burst pipes is covered, but not flood.  Insurance cover is very generic, which is how they get out of paying out.

As an aside, a lot of insurance policies don't cover 'Acts of God' which includes external forces - flood, fire (inc lightning strikes), wind and earth movement (landslide, subsidence etc) especially on newer builds.

not convinced about that as generally acts of God are covered by insurance policies and Acts of God are events such as hurricanes, earthquakes, lightning, volcanoes - the vast majority of UK policies still cover Acts of God unless, by endorsement, specific risk is named and excluded such as  flood in your case.

[hairdownthere]

But the state has imposed restrictions. I think any insurance company not paying out will be ruined by the media, so they'll just do it.  Some of this will get back to Lloyds of London as they're probably insuring some of areas or providing reinsurance to cover other insurance companies' losses.

External Link/Members Only

They can get insurance, but not adequate, and it doesn't always cover total loss, think third party vs fully comp.

[hairdownthere]

not convinced about that as generally acts of God are covered by insurance policies and Acts of God are events such as hurricanes, earthquakes, lightning, volcanoes - the vast majority of UK policies still cover Acts of God unless, by endorsement, specific risk is named and excluded such as  flood in your case.

I'd look carefully at your T&C's, and their definitions of Acts of God.  Hurricane damage would only be covered if you were hit by a hurricane, not high winds for instance.

Working in that industry really opened my eyes!  Could almost make a politician seem trustworthy!

[chrishornx]

I'd look carefully at your T&C's, and their definitions of Acts of God.  Hurricane damage would only be covered if you were hit by a hurricane, not high winds for instance.

Working in that industry really opened my eyes!  Could almost make a politician seem trustworthy!

you are being dramatic. Hurricane is an Act of God.

 Storm damage is just that , storm damage is covered by most policies just like theft, fire, AD, Flood, MD, escape of water, impact etc

'Hurricane insurance would only be covered if you were hit by a hurricane' - well that is stating the bleeding obvious but you will find, and should know if you worked in the industry, that the standard Uk insurance cover definition for storm includes thunderstorm, hail, tornado, snow, heavy rain and hurricane

[chrishornx]

They can get insurance, but not adequate, and it doesn't always cover total loss, think third party vs fully comp.

any property can get more than adequate cover - you should know that working in the industry.

The only thing stopping them is the premium cost. If you have  house with a rebuild in modern materials of £1,000,000 and you pay  £1,200,000 premium then you will get cover - simple as that it's only premium rates that are inhibitive

[mr.bluesky]

No doubt all those unfortunate people who have lost their homes and all their possessions will feel uplifted after a visit from Megan and Harry aka Princess Pushy and the "spare" ginger haired whinger.

[chrishornx]

No doubt all those unfortunate people who have lost their homes and all their possessions will feel uplifted after a visit from Megan and Harry aka Princess Pushy and the "spare" ginger haired whinger.

it was ridiculous that they turned up - and then the opportune publicity announcing a delay in her TV showing being launched.

[mills_and_bhuna]

any property can get more than adequate cover - you should know that working in the industry.

The only thing stopping them is the premium cost. If you have  house with a rebuild in modern materials of £1,000,000 and you pay  £1,200,000 premium then you will get cover - simple as that it's only premium rates that are inhibitive

What a silly comment.
That wouldn't be insurance as anyone normal would define it.
If insurance premiums are set at an unaffordable level it is of no meaningful difference to withholding or refusing cover.

[jackdaw]

What a silly comment.
That wouldn't be insurance as anyone normal would define it.
If insurance premiums are set at an unaffordable level it is of no meaningful difference to withholding or refusing cover.

Figures quoted were daft, of course.

But I’d be (slightly) surprised if insurance wasn’t available at some price substantially less than full property price, but substantial enough to persuade some property owners it was too costly.

After all 18 year old footballers driving Ferraris get insured…some specialist insurers will take on almost any risk at right price.

And is it a difficult thought to realise that if you can’t get fire insurance at any price, it would be sensible to live somewhere else? The underwriters must see the risk as enormous if no one is willing to quote.

[hairdownthere]

you are being dramatic. Hurricane is an Act of God.

 Storm damage is just that , storm damage is covered by most policies just like theft, fire, AD, Flood, MD, escape of water, impact etc

'Hurricane insurance would only be covered if you were hit by a hurricane' - well that is stating the bleeding obvious but you will find, and should know if you worked in the industry, that the standard Uk insurance cover definition for storm includes thunderstorm, hail, tornado, snow, heavy rain and hurricane

Where did I say Hurricane isn't an Act of God?

Storm Damage cover is different.  You are covered for the weather above in general, not always including Hurricane.   The insurance co will try get out of it at every turn.  If you have damage from any of the above during a defined Hurricane and you don't have specific wording that states you are covered by a Hurricane, they wont pay out. 

I'm just trying to point out that insurance companies will do their utmost to avoid paying out.  They are out to make as much money as possible as any business is.

[jackdaw]

Where did I say Hurricane isn't an Act of God?

Storm Damage cover is different.  You are covered for the weather above in general, not always including Hurricane.   The insurance co will try get out of it at every turn.  If you have damage from any of the above during a defined Hurricane and you don't have specific wording that states you are covered by a Hurricane, they wont pay out. 

They are out to make as much money as possible as any business is.

It’s a really complex industry. Of course, firms want to make money…but the sensible ones that stay in the industry for decades realise that ultimately you can’t do that by cheating people. The aim is to maximise wealth in the long term, not maximise profit in any one year.

Cheating by the customers (by neglecting to disclose relevant information on proposal forms or even telling outright lies) is probably more common than reputable Insurance Companies failing to honour legitimate contracts.

[chrishornx]

Figures quoted were daft, of course.

But I’d be (slightly) surprised if insurance wasn’t available at some price substantially less than full property price, but substantial enough to persuade some property owners it was too costly.

After all 18 year old footballers driving Ferraris get insured…some specialist insurers will take on almost any risk at right price.

And is it a difficult thought to realise that if you can’t get fire insurance at any price, it would be sensible to live somewhere else? The underwriters must see the risk as enormous if no one is willing to quote.

daft figures to make the point that anything is insurable, for a price. The 'self appointed' idiot just likes to antagonise whenever he can. But he fails to define what is unaffordable

[chrishornx]

Where did I say Hurricane isn't an Act of God?

Storm Damage cover is different.  You are covered for the weather above in general, not always including Hurricane.   The insurance co will try get out of it at every turn.  If you have damage from any of the above during a defined Hurricane and you don't have specific wording that states you are covered by a Hurricane, they wont pay out. 

I'm just trying to point out that insurance companies will do their utmost to avoid paying out.  They are out to make as much money as possible as any business is.

where did I say you did?

Storm damage is not different to Hurricane cover unless specifically endorsed on the policy. The majority of UK households Insurers cover storm damage as a standard peril and the definition of storm includes Hurricane, so it embraces hurricane damage in the wording

policy exclusions for Hurricane , which can then be purchased separately, can happen in areas prone to hurricane exposure like the west coast of florida but not here as Hurricanes do not form in the UK.

By the time Hurricanes, which form in tropical waters, reach the uK they are no longer Hurricanes

[mills_and_bhuna]

daft figures to make the point that anything is insurable, for a price. The 'self appointed' idiot just likes to antagonise whenever he can. But he fails to define what is unaffordable

I didn't appoint myself.

Sorry but when you insult me I wear that as a badge of honour.

[mills_and_bhuna]

 

[RandomGuy99]

any property can get more than adequate cover - you should know that working in the industry.

The only thing stopping them is the premium cost. If you have  house with a rebuild in modern materials of £1,000,000 and you pay  £1,200,000 premium then you will get cover - simple as that it's only premium rates that are inhibitive

Might as well insure yourself in that case by keeping the money in the bank

[PepeMAGA]

Might as well insure yourself in that case by keeping the money in the bank

I think he means insure the property on the assumption it's worth 1.2 so there is some leeway. Not actually pay 1.2 to insure it
Though I very much doubt 90% of the people that have lost their house expected a total loss and the thought of literally having to rebuild it never crossed their mind.
The other thing is, the land is probably contaminated now, would need extensive work before anything could be built there. I think that is one of the issues in Hawaii

[hairdownthere]

It’s a really complex industry. Of course, firms want to make money…but the sensible ones that stay in the industry for decades realise that ultimately you can’t do that by cheating people. The aim is to maximise wealth in the long term, not maximise profit in any one year.

Cheating by the customers (by neglecting to disclose relevant information on proposal forms or even telling outright lies) is probably more common than reputable Insurance Companies failing to honour legitimate contracts.

Cheating by the customers is rife, and expected, which is why the companies try and stay one step ahead by having the get out clause which stops them paying out.

You are right, it is extremely complex, and it's a long game

[FiveKnuckles]

Did the playboy mansion survive?  Rumours that it was burnt down, and reports the flames were stop nearby.

[catweazle]

No doubt all those unfortunate people who have lost their homes and all their possessions will feel uplifted after a visit from Megan and Harry aka Princess Pushy and the "spare" ginger haired whinger.

As I mentioned in answer #63, they even took their own TV crew with them. For folk who have allegedly "stepped back" from Royal duties, they seem to do a lot of royal-esque stuff