Tattoos & self harming

[Mr Garmin]

Now, I've been thinking about this for sometime and, as it's Christmas day and I've had a drink I thought I'd ask the panel what they think about tattoos on girls & their motivations for deliberately defacing themselves.

I'm from a generation where, if you have tattoos, you almost certainly got them while in the forces....

....and you weren't female.

I'm not talking about small discreet hearts or red devils in unseen locations, but whole sleeves which look like they've been scared in a fire or unintelligible scribble up the arm, shoulder or torso etc, and why anybody would choose to have their tits inked is quite beyond me.

I recently reviewed a girl with a gorgeous figure and otherwise flawless skin who had the most awful tattoos over most of her body.  I'm no artist but some of them were like somebody had randomly daubed black paint on her skin.

I strongly believe that excessive ink on the otherwise perfect female form is actually the modern form of self-harm scaring.

Discuss

[RandomGuy99]

It's their body and their choice. It's none of my business why they got them. There is just a trend for tattoos.  I suspect most of the.younger generation have at least one tattoo.

[Mr Garmin]

It's their body and their choice. It's none of my business why they got them. There is just a trend for tattoos.  I suspect most of the.younger generation have at least one tattoo.

My question was whether it is a symptom of some form of mental trauma

It's often pointed out on here when a girl has pictures showing obvious scaring on her body, implying that she may have/had psychological issues

I'm asking whether tattoos can be the acceptable symptoms of the same mental issues.

[daviemac]

I strongly believe that excessive ink on the otherwise perfect female form is actually the modern form of self-harm scaring.

If that's what you believe there's nothing to discuss your beliefs are your beliefs.

If you don't like women who exercise the right they have to do as we all have and have a tattoo then don't book them.

My personal opinion is that anyone who thinks tattoos are a form of self harming needs to give their head a wobble, there's people out there who actually have mental health issues who do self harm and it's not by having tattoos.

I should add that it's never a good idea to post when pissed.

[Blackpool Rock]

My question was whether it is a symptom of some form of mental trauma

It's often pointed out on here when a girl has pictures showing obvious scaring on her body, implying that she may have/had psychological issues

I'm asking whether tattoos can be the acceptable symptoms of the same mental issues.

I've actually said the same thing for about 10 years now, excessive body modification like tattoos and piercings IMO could be a sign of mental illness leading to self harm in some people when they take it to a level which appears to be self mutilation

What I would also add is that I thought this as I noticed a few girls that I saw who had self harming scars all seemed to have a lot of tattoos and other body mods hence the connection

[Mr Garmin]

If that's what you believe there's nothing to discuss your beliefs are your beliefs.

If you don't like women who exercise the right they have to do as we all have and have a tattoo then don't book them.

My personal opinion is that anyone who thinks tattoos are a form of self harming needs to give their head a wobble, there's people out there who actually have mental health issues who do self harm and it's not by having tattoos.

I should add that it's never a good idea to post when pissed.

Not pissed Dave, but I have had a drink (have you too?)

This is off topic and I'm posing a question for discussion.  If it's not appropriate or up for debate then fair do's (I haven't checked the rules on discussing mental health problems)
 

[Thephoenix]

I'm from a generation where, if you have tattoos, you almost certainly got them while in the forces....

....and you weren't female.

I'm from the same generation, probably older, and agree with your recollections.
I don't like tattoos on women either.

However, fings ain't wot they used to be!

I guess women decide to have tattoos for a variety of reasons, the same as men.
I don't like false boobs or pout lips either, but learnt a long time ago, that women tend to make changes to their bodies for their own reasons rather than for the benefit of men.

IMO small decorative tattoos or piercings can enhance someone's appearance.
However I do wonder why anyone would choose to have any kind of excessive body disfigurement, or cover their body with graffiti.

[RandomGuy99]

I think that there are many reasons for tattoos. Many use them to record an event like a birth or desth of a family member or friendships with others.  Some use them to depict special events or favourite things.  Some jse them to cover up self harming or other scars from operations or accidents.  Some view themselves as creative and like the art of tattooing and enjoy seeing the pieces on their bodies. Some use them as an expression of their personality.  Some don't have them because they don't feel the need to have a tattoo to present such things to the outside world or record them on their bodies. Some tattoos look amazing.  Some don't.

I wouldn't say that they are a form of self harming themselves.

It's just personal choice. 

[MissWolf]

I think that there are many reasons for tattoos. Many use them to record an event like a birth or desth of a family member or friendships with others.  Some use them to depict special events or favourite things.  Some jse them to cover up self harming or other scars from operations or accidents.  Some view themselves as creative and like the art of tattooing and enjoy seeing the pieces on their bodies. Some use them as an expression of their personality.  Some don't have them because they don't feel the need to have a tattoo to present such things to the outside world or record them on their bodies. Some tattoos look amazing.  Some don't.

I wouldn't say that they are a form of self harming themselves.

It's just personal choice. 

THIS 

[Mr Garmin]

I think that there are many reasons for tattoos. Many use them to record an event like a birth or desth of a family member or friendships with others.  Some use them to depict special events or favourite things.  Some jse them to cover up self harming or other scars from operations or accidents.  Some view themselves as creative and like the art of tattooing and enjoy seeing the pieces on their bodies. Some use them as an expression of their personality.  Some don't have them because they don't feel the need to have a tattoo to present such things to the outside world or record them on their bodies. Some tattoos look amazing.  Some don't.

I wouldn't say that they are a form of self harming themselves.

It's just personal choice. 

I think that I agree with all of this, there are many reasons why people have them.  I know some that have significant dates tattooed in relatively discreet locations.  I have had girlfriends with very small discreet ones in unseen locations and I won't deny that I found them rather sexy, a small secret like lingerie reserved for the bedroom.

Fashion is definitely a big one, but clothes can be taken off and thrown in the bin in 10 seconds.  How many from that generation would take their flairs and plaid shirt out of the cupboard and put them on to go out today.  Even during that era we knew that it was a passing craze.

I suppose my question should have been *can* it be a sign of mental illness

[daviemac]

Not pissed Dave, but I have had a drink (have you too?)

This is off topic and I'm posing a question for discussion.  If it's not appropriate or up for debate then fair do's (I haven't checked the rules on discussing mental health problems)

Drink? no I don't mate.

I never said it wasn't appropriate for debate, I said I find the idea of you saying tattoos are self harm ridiculous. I also can't see the logic in your statement "if you have tattoos, you almost certainly got them while in the forces" I would have thought that the armed forces would have some sort of safeguard in place to prevent such self harm? or is your opinion based on the fact you don't think women should have tattoos?   

i also think that generalising that women with tattoos have mental health issues takes away from the very serious issue of those with real mental health problems who do self harm.

[RandomGuy99]

I suppose my question should have been *can* it be a sign of mental illness

It could, but I suspect mostly not. Just like people wearing certain types of clothes or make up or piercings or dying their hair.

Some people do it because other people they know have them.

I'm not going to over analyse it or go judging people because of it. It's generally best not to judge other people.

It's personal choice.

[mrwhite]

I wouldn't describe having a tattoo as self harm - in fact I know a few women (not just SPs) who have had tattoos to cover over scars left behind by surgery.  They didn't see it as self harm - more like empowering themselves for instance after cancer surgery.

I've also met SPs with no tattoos but lots of scars from self harm when they were unhappy at a younger age but now they are older are much happier in themselves and are comfortable with their life choices.

[webpunter]

I strongly believe that excessive ink on the otherwise perfect female form is actually the modern form of self-harm scaring.

I strongly believe that you are doing your very best to be seen as a clueless misogynist dinosaur
What about blokes excessive having tatts ?
& what is excessive ?

@DM has hit the nail on the head per reply #10

There's me thinking that self harming is done in private however you seem to think that this happens at a tattoo parlour 
For what you consider excessive tattoos at great expense & time [like hours & hours]
& its sooo painful i know coz i have some
On larger tatts it can be days multiple long sessions
Do you have any ?
What a 🔔 🔚 you are

Discuss

Yes sir !
Most UKPers with half a brain leave a thread open ended

When you are sober you can try & dig yourself out of this
Unless you are sober, which is even worse

[Blackpool Rock]

Well this study done with readers of a German body modification publication indicates there is / may be a link (I will reiterate for SOME people).
27% of the sample group said they self harmed in childhood compared to only 0.75% of the general population in Germany, quite a difference.
Many of the self harmers also stopped self harming after they started getting piercings and tattoos.

External Link/Members Only

The above linked study is also referred to in this later more comprehensive study, i've only read the 1st small part but it does appear to say there is a link between body modifications and borderline personality disorder patients.
People appear to be jumping to the conclusion that the OP is saying anyone with a tattoo but that's not how I interpreted it, the issue isn't about having 1 or 2 tattoos or a date to remember the passing of a loved one but what could be considered an excessive amount; size or position of tattoos or piercings.
Different people will class excess differently but someone getting a small tattoo on the inside of their wrist with birth date of a child or a single nose piercing isn't the same as getting a full back tattoo which extends down their legs and up their arms; neck and onto their face accompanied by 20 or 30 face piercings and a lip plate.

External Link/Members Only

[hairdownthere]

It's folks own bodies and they can do what they want to it.

What I don't understand though is folk who get tattoo's on their faces and necks, and folk who get their own name tattoo'd on them.

[Mr Garmin]

Thank you all for your considered responses.

I have an opinion that may be different to others but that's perfectly acceptable imo.  Just because I come from a different generation doesn't negate my opinion, it's just different.

I've tried to differentiate between small discreet art and what I can only describe as looking like the result of a major accident.  In fact, if someone was born with some of the disfigurements I've seen they would probably seek surgery to cover it up.

The number of girls that say when asked about their ink 'I'm having this one removed/modified/covered over because I had it done when I wasn't in a good place is quite remarkable.

Hence my question

[timsussex]

I agree with the OP - yes I'm another old fart !

I suppose the trendy terminology would be its low on the spectrum of self abuse on the other hand it might be because I don't like them and looking to reinforce my own prejudices.

Finally the statistician in me requires me to point out that just because there is a strong correlation (eg a lot of self harmers have tattoos) doesnt prove a relationship 

[berksboy]

Obviously their body their choice.Cant say i am a big fan of ink but a bit can look nice , definitely a little goes a long way.Dont think its to do with self-harm but they think it makes them edgy or different but as so many have the same crap it doesn't.

[Doc Holliday]

I agree with the OP - yes I'm another old fart !

I suppose the trendy terminology would be its low on the spectrum of self abuse on the other hand it might be because I don't like them and looking to reinforce my own prejudices.

Finally the statistician in me requires me to point out that just because there is a strong correlation (eg a lot of self harmers have tattoos) doesnt prove a relationship

Inevitably it is a complex picture. There can be an overlap between the two but it is considered small overall.

This is a gross oversimplification, but tattoos are generally a positive sign in thought processes which people like to display, whereas self harming scars most definitely of negative aetiology and are normally kept hidden.

I did a quick google to see if I could find something which was an easy read and quite informative and I came across this which is IMO quite a good read External Link/Members Only It also touches on extreme body modifications.

Self harming among teenagers (mostly female) is now on an almost epidemic scale and is a different discussion. Of course legally they cannot have tattoos until they reach 18.

The large modern prevalence in tattoos is down to 'fashion' and public acceptance and not connected to negative mental health. They are also addictive in nature. You have one and there is a strong tendency to want more.

[Punterperson1971]

I do like tasteful tattoos on a sexy lady old or young but agree with most people it’s crazy to suggest it’s down to mental health or other issues.

[Strawberry]

Inevitably it is a complex picture. There can be an overlap between the two but it is considered small overall.

This is a gross oversimplification, but tattoos are generally a positive sign in thought processes which people like to display, whereas self harming scars most definitely of negative aetiology and are normally kept hidden.

I did a quick google to see if I could find something which was an easy read and quite informative and I came across this which is IMO quite a good read External Link/Members Only It also touches on extreme body modifications.

Self harming among teenagers (mostly female) is now on an almost epidemic scale and is a different discussion. Of course legally they cannot have tattoos until they reach 18.

The large modern prevalence in tattoos is down to 'fashion' and public acceptance and not connected to negative mental health. They are also addictive in nature. You have one and there is a strong tendency to want more.

I consider the increase to be just that, acceptance and fashion - a person sees a tattoo on someone else and may start to like or want a design themselves. Tattoos unlike clothing can be very personal and very permanent.

I also agree regards the addictive side, I went though a time period of adding piercings, a couple of tattoos, a few more piercings. Each addition was exciting. I no longer wear the majority of my piercings, as I do not see the need and they were starting to annoy me. I would like to go back to totally tattoo-free skin, but my tattoos are too small to justify the cost in time, travel, as well as monetary cost involved in tattoo removal. I also believe there is always some sort of trace left, so just not worth the hassle. If I could go back would I listen? I do not know but I am so glad I never had the big cat tattoo I wanted on my thigh!

[Jomoore]

I've tried to differentiate between small discreet art and what I can only describe as looking like the result of a major accident.  In fact, if someone was born with some of the disfigurements I've seen they would probably seek surgery to cover it up.

I agree with your OP on the whole, but feel the above is the crux of the matter. The old days of the subtle little heart or butterfly on the bum cheek seem to have long gone.  Within the last week of so while shopping in the city I saw what could only be described as a stunningly beautiful young woman, or at least she would have been before she thought it a good idea to have a large tattoo all round her neck, up her face and over her forehead.  I just felt really sad for her, no-one in their right mind could want to do that, surely?

[badsin]

I have several tattoos, and believe Id be hypocritical to criticise others.
However, I know SP's that are now having their s removed, as they have dated, or just don't like the tattoo anymore.
Removal is much better now, but takes several passes over the area to effectively remove.
Each to their own. I'm sure some regret getting theirs, some won't 

[timsussex]

......

I should add that it's never a good idea to post when pissed.

Bit like tattoos then 

[berksboy]

One would hope that any decent tattooist would refuse to work on someone pissed ?

[Blackpool Rock]

One would hope that any decent tattooist would refuse to work on someone pissed ?

I've spoken to quite a few girls who say they got their 1st tattoo age 13 or 14, some tattoo "Artists" asked for ID which they must have known was fake as they said they clearly looked way under 18, others just did the tattoo.
As one girl I worked with said everyone knows someone who knows someone who knows a dodgy back street tattoo place that will do it for the money

[badsin]

One would hope that any decent tattooist would refuse to work on someone pissed ?

Correct. But some businesses would thrive on it

[scutty brown]

One would hope that any decent tattooist would refuse to work on someone pissed ?

Judging by the quality of a lot of tattoos adorning younger girls, are lot of tattoists aren't "decent". A lot of it isn't much better than DIY/prison grade

[mills_and_bhuna]

I think that there are many reasons for tattoos. Many use them to record an event like a birth or desth of a family member or friendships with others.  Some use them to depict special events or favourite things.  Some jse them to cover up self harming or other scars from operations or accidents.  Some view themselves as creative and like the art of tattooing and enjoy seeing the pieces on their bodies. Some use them as an expression of their personality.  Some don't have them because they don't feel the need to have a tattoo to present such things to the outside world or record them on their bodies. Some tattoos look amazing.  Some don't.

I wouldn't say that they are a form of self harming themselves.

It's just personal choice. 

Pretty much agree on what you said here.
There are a variety of reasons and using it as a form of self-expression is probably the most common (asserting your individuality in a world of brand names and fashion trends).
I will say , and it's purely my opinion, that I've yet to see an attractive lady where tattoos improve her appearance.
Examples may be out there but I've yet to see one.

[Ali Katt]

Topic has been done to death over the years. We could discuss self-harming I've known several people who have done it and it isn't a joke; it is their way of coping with severe stress and anxiety - perceived or otherwise. However, I'm taking your comments to be flippant and an example of absurdism.

Tattoos I've seen loads ranging from the shit - monkeys with crayons to the awe inspiring. I disagree that only people who had them in the old days were forces - as everyone knows as well visible tattoos are forbidden. People who had them pre-2000s seemed to fit in a broad few categories: sailors, clubbers, rock people, prisoners, artsy hippie types, people who did them themselves with indian ink as teenagers, tattooists. Really what changed were celebrities like Beckham getting them and the popularity of the likes of Sailor Jerry and sakteboard culture, which lead to a proliferation of tattoo parlours. It isn't going away or slowing down. There are trends which probably will though like septum piercings.

[DastardlyDick]

A lot of it isn't much better than DIY/prison grade

It probably is DIY.  It was fairly rife at my Secondary School, which was a very long time (30+ years) ago.
A "decent" and correctly licenced tattooist charges an absolute fortune.