Those married 25 years plus ....

[Stevelondon]

I do understand your point and I can agree to an extent. However, my main disagreement was the reduction of your initial point of it's just sex along with Miss Wolfs agreement of punting keeps families together. This is not the case at all. Reverse the general circumstances that the wife is seeing other men, what's the harm? How many men's ego can take that and still be married happily? I also doubt there are many women that the husband can communicate "Hey love I'm just going out to see HotSasha for a quick one around 6pm, I'll be back into for dinner" and the woman is going to smile happily and wish him a good time  .

I think the main issue about the other party knowing as an elephant in the room but it not being transparently communicated is that the marriage is not being kept together out of the love they have for each other, but it is the fear of the mutally assured destruction of their lives in the aspect of losing the family home, finances being torn apart and familial separation of kids etc that is keeping them together.

The exceptional circumstance you mention of the disabled wife situation I can completely sympathise and agree with the man's actions. The more common circumstance of the man being married to a woman and their sex life has died leading to the man to punt is understandable and if I was in the same situation I would do the same, although I would bite the bullet and just get divorced to be honest despite what I would lose.

I just do not think that the impact of knowing the other party is having sex with someone else can be understated as a minor issue, mainly because of egos involved. Punting also benefits the man mainly, not the family in keeping the marriage together, the money spent punting could arguably be spent on the family instead. Infact, I think if punting was not available the man would be forced to confront the situation and make the marriage work or leave the marriage which short term and long term would cause irrevocable damage materially, but after some time the man would feel happy of not being trapped as a happy hostage. I do not know if this is important in my perspective of my points made, but I am not married or have any intention on doing so, this may be perhaps why I have the views I have stated.

Once again. Far too many variables to answer and like I can’t be arsed to repeat myself fully.

Biting bullets and such just makes no sense. Your back on topic of morals.
ie:-     Your married and would seek a divorce if you felt like punting. I get that. But that’s you…….. not everyone else.

I’ll stick to my simpler theory thanks 👍🏻😀

[PumpDump]

...my main disagreement was the reduction of your initial point of it's just sex along with Miss Wolfs agreement of punting keeps families together. This is not the case at all. Reverse the general circumstances that the wife is seeing other men, what's the harm? How many men's ego can take that and still be married happily?

The difference is, and this is a generalisation, but generally correct, the vast majority of men can have sex without any form of emotion. The opposite is true of women, the vast majority need an emotional connection before they can even have sex.

I also doubt there are many women that the husband can communicate "Hey love I'm just going out to see HotSasha for a quick one around 6pm, I'll be back into for dinner" and the woman is going to smile happily and wish him a good time  .

You are right, that is why the husband should keep it quite and not rub it in her face. As some posters have alluded to, the wives sometimes suspects or know, but as long as it is not rubbed in her face, she is fine with it.

[Payyourwaymate]

Once again. Far too many variables to answer and like I can’t be arsed to repeat myself fully.

Biting bullets and such just makes no sense. Your back on topic of morals.
ie:-     Your married and would seek a divorce if you felt like punting. I get that. But that’s you…….. not everyone else.

I’ll stick to my simpler theory thanks 👍🏻😀

For me it's not really a question of morals. I just would rather the have the freedom of being able to move as I would want even if I was poorer financially for it. I could not deal with the mental toll of coming up with excuses for going around at different times, having a false sense of guilt for feeling like I am cheating when for alot of men including myself sex is not emotional with a random, knowing the wife knows but is putting up with it to avoid mutually assured destruction of the household or having to effectively increase my level of OPSec to not get caught and other worries that come with such activities. It's too much hassle, like juggling multiple plates or something. If your theory works for you that is fine, my initial disagreement is that it's not just sex. Peoples egos get in the way of it just being sex, people may feel disrespected or betrayed even if they have no attraction to each other anymore, it's too unpredictable.

The difference is, and this is a generalisation, but generally correct, the vast majority of men can have sex without any form of emotion. The opposite is true of women, the vast majority need an emotional connection before they can even have sex.

You are right, that is why the husband should keep it quite and not rub it in her face. As some posters have alluded to, the wives sometimes suspects or know, but as long as it is not rubbed in her face, she is fine with it.

Yes I agree with you on that about men being able to have sex with no emotion. As for whether the woman is fine with it, I suspect if the woman had a higher earning power than the husband, she would leave.

[Thephoenix]

I do understand your point and I can agree to an extent. However, my main disagreement was the reduction of your initial point of it's just sex along with Miss Wolfs agreement of punting keeps families together. This is not the case at all. Reverse the general circumstances that the wife is seeing other men, what's the harm? How many men's ego can take that and still be married happily? I also doubt there are many women that the husband can communicate "Hey love I'm just going out to see HotSasha for a quick one around 6pm, I'll be back into for dinner" and the woman is going to smile happily and wish him a good time  .

I think the main issue about the other party knowing as an elephant in the room but it not being transparently communicated is that the marriage is not being kept together out of the love they have for each other, but it is the fear of the mutally assured destruction of their lives in the aspect of losing the family home, finances being torn apart and familial separation of kids etc that is keeping them together.

The exceptional circumstance you mention of the disabled wife situation I can completely sympathise and agree with the man's actions. The more common circumstance of the man being married to a woman and their sex life has died leading to the man to punt is understandable and if I was in the same situation I would do the same, although I would bite the bullet and just get divorced to be honest despite what I would lose.

I just do not think that the impact of knowing the other party is having sex with someone else can be understated as a minor issue, mainly because of egos involved. Punting also benefits the man mainly, not the family in keeping the marriage together, the money spent punting could arguably be spent on the family instead. Infact, I think if punting was not available the man would be forced to confront the situation and make the marriage work or leave the marriage which short term and long term would cause irrevocable damage materially, but after some time the man would feel happy of not being trapped as a happy hostage. I do not know if this is important in my perspective of my points made, but I am not married or have any intention on doing so, this may be perhaps why I have the views I have stated.

These sort of posts come up regularly from blokes who aren't married.
I usually try not to respond as they're often over simplified and full of generalisations and assumptions.
My reply, for what it's worth, is that you'd need to be in the shoes of every different married punter, who will all have their different circumstances, relationships and reasons for punting.

Many will say they love their wife and are part of a loving family relationship.
No point trying to question that.
Accept their word.
You don't have to understand. I can see it's probably hard for you to accept.

Yes in many cases there are risks, subterfuge, financial implications and sometimes guilt.
And yet despite all that, thousands of men every day around the UK still punt.
Why???

Again.... many different reasons.
The existence of prostitution for centuries suggests that the testosterone fuelled male libido cannot always be satisfied with one mate, and if the sex and intimacy ceases in a relationship that can often spell disaster.
However apart from the sex,  all other aspects of the relationship and family may be good.

So the guy has choices:
Stay in a sexless marriage and become celibate,
Divorce with all the pitfalls,
Have affairs with even more pitfalls,
Punt.

Punting is just sex.
It often does  save marriages and has done for hundreds of years.
Take the word of the guys who are in that position.

[Thephoenix]

Those outside of marriages are over thinking this, it's just sex, I know punting keeps marriages together,  I've had many many a conversation with happily married men on the subject after sucking their cock and fucking the living daylight out of them.

Forgive me but I've got this picture in my head now of wanting to ask your advice about what to get my wife for our 60th wedding anniversary later this year, but not wanting to interrupt you when you have your mouth full.

Does punting help to save marriages?
You betcha! 

[Trumpet]

28 years

You love her.    yes
It works on so many levels   yes
Sex is shit or non existant.  for well over a decade, unless you count maybe once a year and it's shit
Punting fills a need     yes
Had an affair but sold my soul. - had 3. 2 of them I spent more time trying to get out of them than enjoying being in them
Too chicken shit to walk out on an affluent life  - maybe 5 years ago, but I do actually really like her
What to do?   Don''t get caught.

There is no easy answer.
1. We only live once, so way waste it being unhappy
2. Are you really that unhappy?
3. Is it inevitable

I'm very envious of people who have fun sex lives, but how many do?

[Payyourwaymate]

These sort of posts come up regularly from blokes who aren't married.
I usually try not to respond as they're often over simplified and full of generalisations and assumptions.
My reply, for what it's worth, is that you'd need to be in the shoes of every different married punter, who will all have their different circumstances, relationships and reasons for punting.

Many will say they love their wife and are part of a loving family relationship.
No point trying to question that.
Accept their word.
You don't have to understand. I can see it's probably hard for you to accept.

Yes in many cases there are risks, subterfuge, financial implications and sometimes guilt.
And yet despite all that, thousands of men every day around the UK still punt.
Why???

Again.... many different reasons.
The existence of prostitution for centuries suggests that the testosterone fuelled male libido cannot always be satisfied with one mate, and if the sex and intimacy ceases in a relationship that can often spell disaster.
However apart from the sex,  all other aspects of the relationship and family may be good.

So the guy has choices:
Stay in a sexless marriage and become celibate,
Divorce with all the pitfalls,
Have affairs with even more pitfalls,
Punt.

Punting is just sex.
It often does  save marriages and has done for hundreds of years.
Take the word of the guys who are in that position.

If you had bothered to read my posts after the one you highlighted, you would have found out that I accepted their positions  .

[Doc Holliday]

... our 60th wedding anniversary later this year

Advance congratulations. 

My parents reached that milestone as did all but two of their siblings (my aunts/uncles) Ten in total. All married young.

The two who didn't make it probably would have also done so had they survived.

Different generation of course. Was sex hugely important to them? I have no idea, but clearly other bonds were strong enough to pull them through the trials and tribulations of life and marriage.

[MissWolf]

Forgive me but I've got this picture in my head now of wanting to ask your advice about what to get my wife for our 60th wedding anniversary later this year, but not wanting to interrupt you when you have your mouth full.

Does punting help to save marriages?
You betcha! 

Congratulations in advance what a fantastic milestone 👏 💕

It obviously has to be diamonds of some sort but I'd need to know more about the lovely Mrs Phoenix to help further and its rude to talk with my mouth full 

[RedKettle]

You leave a relationship because its wrong, you leave for yourself. To leave for someone else is almost always a mistake

Perhaps not disagreeing with this but adding some finesse.  In my case, and this was many years ago when I was young and finding my way in relationships I was in a reasonably long relationship (a few years) and did leave it after finding someone else.  But it was being with that person, just as a friend at the time, that made me realise the relationship with my girlfriend was wrong.  It sort of gave me the confidence to end it and then start a new, and much better relationship.

I am now firmly in the "married 25 years plus" category and I am afraid that for years have been on limited to no sex in that marriage.  I am past being upset at that, it is what it is.  I am very happy to stay in the marriage and not because of financial reasons etc etc - there is plenty of love, friendship and shared history between us.  Sex would be fantastic but it is rarely available, and some of that may be my fault for various reasons.

Should I feel guilty for the punting?  Probably but I am reconciled to it and prepared to make my case when I meet my maker.  I have never had an affair and do not believe I ever would - some may not see a difference between affairs and punting but I do. 

How would my wfe react to the punting?  I honestly do not know but I suspect not well.

[RedKettle]

These sort of posts come up regularly from blokes who aren't married.
I usually try not to respond as they're often over simplified and full of generalisations and assumptions.
My reply, for what it's worth, is that you'd need to be in the shoes of every different married punter, who will all have their different circumstances, relationships and reasons for punting.

Many will say they love their wife and are part of a loving family relationship.
No point trying to question that.
Accept their word.
You don't have to understand. I can see it's probably hard for you to accept.

Yes in many cases there are risks, subterfuge, financial implications and sometimes guilt.
And yet despite all that, thousands of men every day around the UK still punt.
Why???

Again.... many different reasons.
The existence of prostitution for centuries suggests that the testosterone fuelled male libido cannot always be satisfied with one mate, and if the sex and intimacy ceases in a relationship that can often spell disaster.
However apart from the sex,  all other aspects of the relationship and family may be good.

So the guy has choices:
Stay in a sexless marriage and become celibate,
Divorce with all the pitfalls,
Have affairs with even more pitfalls,
Punt.

Punting is just sex.
It often does  save marriages and has done for hundreds of years.
Take the word of the guys who are in that position.

Great post.

[Urban83]

Great thread. Keep personal and punting life as two separate parallel universes.

[Stevelondon]

These sort of posts come up regularly from blokes who aren't married.
I usually try not to respond as they're often over simplified and full of generalisations and assumptions.
My reply, for what it's worth, is that you'd need to be in the shoes of every different married punter, who will all have their different circumstances, relationships and reasons for punting.

Many will say they love their wife and are part of a loving family relationship.
No point trying to question that.
Accept their word.
You don't have to understand. I can see it's probably hard for you to accept.

Yes in many cases there are risks, subterfuge, financial implications and sometimes guilt.
And yet despite all that, thousands of men every day around the UK still punt.
Why???

Again.... many different reasons.
The existence of prostitution for centuries suggests that the testosterone fuelled male libido cannot always be satisfied with one mate, and if the sex and intimacy ceases in a relationship that can often spell disaster.
However apart from the sex,  all other aspects of the relationship and family may be good.

So the guy has choices:
Stay in a sexless marriage and become celibate,
Divorce with all the pitfalls,
Have affairs with even more pitfalls,
Punt.

Punting is just sex.
It often does  save marriages and has done for hundreds of years.
Take the word of the guys who are in that position.

Everything I would have wanted to say and more.

Bravo 

[Spacecowb0y]

I like your phrase, "trapped of their own volition". For me, it's a choice between idealism and pragmatism. The Idealist says, "My wife refuses to have sex, so I will leave her". Unfortunately, this entails losing half of his savings and pension and moving from a large house in an affluent area to a shitty bedsit on the wrong side of town. Any disposable income he once had is now spent on alimony and palimony.
The Pragmatist says, "My wife refuses to have sex, but is otherwise pleasant and caring towards me. I'll discreetly call on the services of a professional subcontractor". This entails using his disposable income to have sex with a variety of beautiful women, all of whom, being professionals, are much better at sex than his wife ever was. In the meantime he still lives in his nice house and gets his meals cooked for him and his shirts ironed. So his wife refuses to have sex - why the fuck would he care?

This post very articulately summizes my thoughts on my personal circumstances. The lack of sexual activity comes up from time to time and she is well aware that she lacks the motivation for reasons I'm not willing to share here, the bottom line being she understands my frustration, but wouldn't condone extra marital sex in any form, hence my sexual life runs in parallel like the tracks of a train.

[Payyourwaymate]

Everything I would have wanted to say and more.

Bravo 

I'm sorry but how? All he did was say a bunch of surface level points whilst trying to criticise me for questioning you guys perspectives whilst I was trying to understand why you had your positions. People like him are why people do not bother to have in depth level discussions trying to gain a deeper level of understanding in something they may not agree with or want to know more about and due to his position of not questioning the norm, just yes there are many reasons...does not go on to elaborate and then try to indirectly claim ignorance on my side for asking questions.

He reminds me of those men that stay stuck in the mentally of happy wife happy life and anyone that has a differing view looks on them like they are the ignorant ones . You may not know but that guy has a habit of picking on my posts anytime a "controversial topic" comes up and ignoring everyone else.

It's always the same one trick post with him, brief surface level feel good points that makes everyone agree but there is no real depth to help someone who has not experienced understand, or try to confront any of the uncomfortable realities and if anyone really tries to question he will not respond and play the other person as ignorant, soundbite feel good material really.

[Chazz]

For me it's not really a question of morals. I just would rather the have the freedom of being able to move as I would want even if I was poorer financially for it. I could not deal with the mental toll of coming up with excuses for going around at different times, having a false sense of guilt for feeling like I am cheating when for alot of men including myself sex is not emotional with a random, knowing the wife knows but is putting up with it to avoid mutually assured destruction of the household or having to effectively increase my level of OPSec to not get caught and other worries that come with such activities.

If I'm honest, I get a real kick out of the subterfuge. Dealing with the alibis and the logistics is all part of the game. If it wasn't for punting I'd be a very boring middle-aged man with a mundane life and nothing to look forward to. Chazz gives me the chance to be a secret agent superhero, fearlessly fucking a bevvy of beauties to save the universe! While I'm sat in a soul-crushing business meeting on the day of a punt, listening to the boring wankers that I work with droning on, I know that in an hour's time I'm going to be watching my cock disappearing into an exotic Thai woman. It's this sort of thing that keeps a smile on my face and a spring in my step!

[PumpDump]

I'm sorry but how? All he did was say a bunch of surface level points whilst trying to criticise me for questioning you guys perspectives whilst I was trying to understand why you had your positions. People like him are why people do not bother to have in depth level discussions trying to gain a deeper level of understanding in something they may not agree with or want to know more about and due to his position of not questioning the norm, just yes there are many reasons...does not go on to elaborate and then try to indirectly claim ignorance on my side for asking questions.

He reminds me of those men that stay stuck in the mentally of happy wife happy life and anyone that has a differing view looks on them like they are the ignorant ones . You may not know but that guy has a habit of picking on my posts anytime a "controversial topic" comes up and ignoring everyone else.

It's always the same one trick post with him, brief surface level feel good points that makes everyone agree but there is no real depth to help someone who has not experienced understand, or try to confront any of the uncomfortable realities and if anyone really tries to question he will not respond and play the other person as ignorant, soundbite feel good material really.

I think you're taking this way too seriously.

[Momodan38]

If I'm honest, I get a real kick out of the subterfuge. Dealing with the alibis and the logistics is all part of the game. If it wasn't for punting I'd be a very boring middle-aged man with a mundane life and nothing to look forward to. Chazz gives me the chance to be a secret agent superhero, fearlessly fucking a bevvy of beauties to save the universe! While I'm sat in a soul-crushing business meeting on the day of a punt, listening to the boring wankers that I work with droning on, I know that in an hour's time I'm going to be watching my cock disappearing into an exotic Thai woman. It's this sort of thing that keeps a smile on my face and a spring in my step!

Hehehe, your post really speaks to me for some reason 

Everyone has a fake persona these days, especially online. I’d much rather put on a front during a session with an SP.

[Payyourwaymate]

If I'm honest, I get a real kick out of the subterfuge. Dealing with the alibis and the logistics is all part of the game. If it wasn't for punting I'd be a very boring middle-aged man with a mundane life and nothing to look forward to. Chazz gives me the chance to be a secret agent superhero, fearlessly fucking a bevvy of beauties to save the universe! While I'm sat in a soul-crushing business meeting on the day of a punt, listening to the boring wankers that I work with droning on, I know that in an hour's time I'm going to be watching my cock disappearing into an exotic Thai woman. It's this sort of thing that keeps a smile on my face and a spring in my step!

I respect your honesty and can appreciate your perspective, thank you.

I think you're taking this way too seriously.

No I was not, I just do not appreciate someone coming in highlighting my post to not address me directly, claim I am making assumptions and generalisations when I clearly was asking questions, I admitted in the very post he highlighted that because I am not married and do not intend to do so perhaps my views are biased....then he goes on to make generalisations and surface level points  . It's quite the horrid irony because I have not tried to claim anyone to be ignorant or unknowing the way Phoneix has done so towards myself, but he gets a round of applause for saying a load of nothing  .

[Chazz]

Hehehe, your post really speaks to me for some reason 

Everyone has a fake persona these days, especially online. I’d much rather put on a front during a session with an SP.

My problem now is which is my real persona? I know that there's two if them, but in some ways Chazz is much more real to me than the boring chartered accountant Mr Brian Smith of 49 Albert Road Dorking. 

[PumpDump]

I respect your honesty and can appreciate your perspective, thank you.

No I was not, I just do not appreciate someone coming in highlighting my post to not address me directly, claim I am making assumptions and generalisations when I clearly was asking questions, I admitted in the very post he highlighted that because I am not married and do not intend to do so perhaps my views are biased....then he goes on to make generalisations and surface level points  . It's quite the horrid irony because I have not tried to claim anyone to be ignorant or unknowing the way Phoneix has done so towards myself, but he gets a round of applause for saying a load of nothing  .

Come on man, get a grip. You are being a bit of a drama queen here. Nobody gives a fuck really. It's just a message forum, you are arguing with a fake name on a screen.

[Momodan38]

I respect your honesty and can appreciate your perspective, thank you.

No I was not, I just do not appreciate someone coming in highlighting my post to not address me directly, claim I am making assumptions and generalisations when I clearly was asking questions, I admitted in the very post he highlighted that because I am not married and do not intend to do so perhaps my views are biased....then he goes on to make generalisations and surface level points  . It's quite the horrid irony because I have not tried to claim anyone to be ignorant or unknowing the way Phoneix has done so towards myself, but he gets a round of applause for saying a load of nothing  .

Old people, set in their ways, high fiving each other…

Dude back off, you ain’t winning this one, respect your elders and move on 

How’s that for generalisation 

[Momodan38]

My problem now is which is my real persona? I know that there's two if them, but in some ways Chazz is much more real to me than the boring chartered accountant Mr Brian Smith of 49 Albert Road Dorking. 

I’ve got my punting/home life balance all sorted. I know who I am in each world.

when punting I’m all…

Hidden Image/Members Only

At home I’m like…

Hidden Image/Members Only

The real me is long dead.

[Payyourwaymate]

Come on man, get a grip. You are being a bit of a drama queen here. Nobody gives a fuck really. It's just a message forum, you are arguing with a fake name on a screen.

I was being reasonable but go off and be a dickhead else where trying to be tough for no reason online. No one asked for you to interject. You clearly do care if you felt the need to speak to me right? No intellect to discuss anything so you have to resort to swearing right? Real big man you are  .

[PumpDump]

I was being reasonable but go off and be a dickhead else where trying to be tough for no reason online. No one asked for you to interject. You clearly do care if you felt the need to speak to me right? No intellect to discuss anything so you have to resort to swearing right? Real big man you are  .

You can have the last word, I know it is important to you 

[Payyourwaymate]

Old people, set in their ways, high fiving each other…

Dude back off, you ain’t winning this one, respect your elders and move on 

How’s that for generalisation 

lol mate. I swear can't have a debate about anything without people getting uncomfortable, swearing or saying to respect the elders and not question them . I respect your post of having your cake and eating it and Chazz's post much more than the mental gymnastics of others rationalising that they are saving their marriage by fucking sex workers.

I don't know if you or anyone else has seen Breaking Bad, but there is a mini storyline where Walters Wife, Skyler, has an affair with her boss behind Walters back. Skyler then gives him (Tedd, her boss) her husbands money that he risked his life for. Walter finds out and you know what Skyler says? She did it for the family... . The parallel of that whole debacle and me reading men saying they are saving their marriage by seeing sex workers which for them is an end result but not truly being honest that it is more for themselves than their wives is quite something.

I'll bow out as you said, it's a shame. At least some interesting perspectives were given.

[Stevelondon]

I'm sorry but how? All he did was say a bunch of surface level points whilst trying to criticise me for questioning you guys perspectives whilst I was trying to understand why you had your positions. People like him are why people do not bother to have in depth level discussions trying to gain a deeper level of understanding in something they may not agree with or want to know more about and due to his position of not questioning the norm, just yes there are many reasons...does not go on to elaborate and then try to indirectly claim ignorance on my side for asking questions.

He reminds me of those men that stay stuck in the mentally of happy wife happy life and anyone that has a differing view looks on them like they are the ignorant ones . You may not know but that guy has a habit of picking on my posts anytime a "controversial topic" comes up and ignoring everyone else.

It's always the same one trick post with him, brief surface level feel good points that makes everyone agree but there is no real depth to help someone who has not experienced understand, or try to confront any of the uncomfortable realities and if anyone really tries to question he will not respond and play the other person as ignorant, soundbite feel good material really.

Nope. All I am doing is agreeing with old Phoenix  😂……… and not you.

As P&D says. Chill man.
It’s just sex.


Oh no……… I shouldn’t have said that. Now I’ve opened the can of worms again 

[PumpDump]

Nope. All I am doing is agreeing with old Phoenix  😂……… and not you.

As P&D says. Chill man.
It’s just sex.


Oh no……… I shouldn’t have said that. Now I’ve opened the can of worms again 

He should go and argue with ChatGPT  Have any of you guys ever done that? It is fun if you are bored. Try to convince it that it is wrong about one of it's core beliefs (climate change is real, Covid vaccine is safe and effective, Israel is just defending itself). What a great feeling when you prove it wrong and it apologises 

[simon07]

Came across this article External Link/Members Only

There may be ‘a brain drive centre that cause us to obsessive compulsive desire to seek sexual encounters. Would be interested to know if high testosterone encourages it and low testosterone inhibits it?

[pbrown355]

payyourwaymate, by posting on here looking for an in depth discussion I think you were being very hopeful. It is also a bit harsh criticising someone because they have an opinion different to yours.
My advice, which I will be chilled about if you wish to ignore it, is chill.

[Momodan38]

I respect your post of having your cake and eating it

Hidden Image/Members Only

I'll bow out as you said, it's a shame. At least some interesting perspectives were given.

Trust me it’s for the best, you’re dealing with professionals who’ve probably read the wiki page on how to win an argument online extensively

[tynetunnel]

I like your phrase, "trapped of their own volition". For me, it's a choice between idealism and pragmatism. The Idealist says, "My wife refuses to have sex, so I will leave her". Unfortunately, this entails losing half of his savings and pension and moving from a large house in an affluent area to a shitty bedsit on the wrong side of town. Any disposable income he once had is now spent on alimony and palimony.
The Pragmatist says, "My wife refuses to have sex, but is otherwise pleasant and caring towards me. I'll discreetly call on the services of a professional subcontractor". This entails using his disposable income to have sex with a variety of beautiful women, all of whom, being professionals, are much better at sex than his wife ever was. In the meantime he still lives in his nice house and gets his meals cooked for him and his shirts ironed. So his wife refuses to have sex - why the fuck would he care?

This. Exactly

[alabama1]

That's a very sweeping generalisation, which i would dispute. Of the many hundreds of SP's I paid to have sex with only a handful came close to sex with my wife.

All before you became a member here ?

[Thephoenix]

I'm sorry but how? All he did was say a bunch of surface level points whilst trying to criticise me for questioning you guys perspectives whilst I was trying to understand why you had your positions. People like him are why people do not bother to have in depth level discussions trying to gain a deeper level of understanding in something they may not agree with or want to know more about and due to his position of not questioning the norm, just yes there are many reasons...does not go on to elaborate and then try to indirectly claim ignorance on my side for asking questions.

He reminds me of those men that stay stuck in the mentally of happy wife happy life and anyone that has a differing view looks on them like they are the ignorant ones . You may not know but that guy has a habit of picking on my posts anytime a "controversial topic" comes up and ignoring everyone else.

It's always the same one trick post with him, brief surface level feel good points that makes everyone agree but there is no real depth to help someone who has not experienced understand, or try to confront any of the uncomfortable realities and if anyone really tries to question he will not respond and play the other person as ignorant, soundbite feel good material really.

Goodness me!
Where to start?

First of all , you'll have to remind me of where I've picked on your posts in the past.
That's a surprise to me.
You've obviously got a much better memory.
I don't remember particularly picking on anyone's posts in the past.
I wonder if it was on a similar subject?
I'm genuinely surprised you've expressed such animosity.
Others have questioned your views but not received such criticism.
It seems to be verging on a bit of a persecution complex.
I'm sorry you're so upset.
I do often post a lot of bollocks, but very rarely intend to cause such distress.


Yes I quoted your post, but I was just using that as an example of the many similar posts by others over the years who have raised similar questions and expressed similar views.
At the time it just so happened yours was the post I'd just read and I decided to respond.
I've responded on a similar vein to many other posts on this subject from lots of other members.
I certainly didn't expect to get such a reaction.
I could equally have responded to the posts from Elnukky,  Punting2022, tyretunnel or Cheshuk.
Possibly the reason I responded to your post was that you'd repeated your view that punting didn't save marriages, and also that punting isn't just about sex.
I'm not sure whether you still hold that view.?
You also questioned why guys just don't get divorced, but as others have said the answers to that are complex and they differ with every relationship.
I'm sure you can work out some yourself.

You also criticized me for using the term 'many reasons why married men punt', but would have liked me too elaborate.
I honestly would have thought in many cases it's obvious.
No sex
Not enough sex,
Unsatisfactory sex,
Wanting to try different sexual practices.
Husband is bisexual,
Open relationship,
Wife encourages,
Living apart,
Working away for long periods,
Lack of intimacy,.
Lack of touch,
Lack of emotion
Wife has gained excessive weight or not physically attractive.
Age difference,
Wife ill,
Wife disabled,
Wife in care,
Depression,
Boredom,
Obsession or sex addiction.

You can probably think of more.

In conclusion I reiterate that I'm not in the habit of purposely upsetting anyone, and I hope you can give me some examples of where I've picked you out for personal criticism in the past.

Finally: Do you still hold the view that for the majority of married men, punting isn't just about sex?
Do you still hold the view that in the majority of cases punting cannot save a marriage?
Do you understand that for most married men, divorce is not their preferred option?

.........and last of all, I hope the now you've calmed down a bit.

[ik8133]

You also criticized me for using the term 'many reasons why married men punt', but would have liked me too elaborate.
I honestly would have thought in many cases it's obvious.
No sex
Not enough sex,
Unsatisfactory sex,
Wanting to try different sexual practices.
Husband is bisexual,
Open relationship,
Wife encourages,
Living apart,
Working away for long periods,
Lack of intimacy,.
Lack of touch,
Lack of emotion
Wife has gained excessive weight or not physically attractive.
Age difference,
Wife ill,
Wife disabled,
Wife in care,
Depression,
Boredom,
Obsession or sex addiction.

You can probably think of more.

In conclusion I reiterate that I'm not in the habit of purposely upsetting anyone, and I hope you can give me some examples of where I've picked you out for personal criticism in the past.

Finally: Do you still hold the view that for the majority of married men, punting isn't just about sex?
Do you still hold the view that in the majority of cases punting cannot save a marriage?
Do you understand that for most married men, divorce is not their preferred option?

.........and last of all, I hope the now you've calmed down a bit.

Great post, I think you've cover all the bases there.

[Chazz]

But apart from the:
No sex
Not enough sex,
Unsatisfactory sex,
Wanting to try different sexual practices.
Husband is bisexual,
Open relationship,
Wife encourages,
Living apart,
Working away for long periods,
Lack of intimacy,.
Lack of touch,
Lack of emotion
Wife has gained excessive weight or not physically attractive.
Age difference,
Wife ill,
Wife disabled,
Wife in care,
Depression,
Boredom,
Obsession or sex addiction,

What problems has punting ever solved for us? 

[WelshClipper]

Excellent thread.

Just to reinforce, there is no question in my mind that punting has been an absolute blessing for me.

Back in 2014 my married life, wife, kids, holidays, lifestyle, entertainment etc etc was all peachy.

But in my mind there was always the downside that there was no sex whatsoever.

This fact led me to punting and filled the only real gap in my life.

I keep it to strictly sex, I see any age, ethnicity or size although I stay away from really big girls.

It’s worked now for ten years with only a couple of bad punts.

So absolutely no complaints. Long live punting 

[Thephoenix]

Old people, set in their ways, high fiving each other…

Dude back off, you ain’t winning this one, respect your elders and move on 

How’s that for generalisation 

Really?
I thought it was about folk expressing their views on a subject that's become a regular talking point, probably as it effects a large proportion of members.

I don't post to get high fives, and folk often disagree with me on a wide range of subjects.
I own up to being an old fart but I'm far from set in my ways .

What are your views on the subject?

[Stevelondon]

Well I am an old fart but with an extremely young fart inside me.

The day I get set in my ways I’ll be in the box awaiting the flames. 

[Stevelondon]

But apart from the:
No sex
Not enough sex,
Unsatisfactory sex,
Wanting to try different sexual practices.
Husband is bisexual,
Open relationship,
Wife encourages,
Living apart,
Working away for long periods,
Lack of intimacy,.
Lack of touch,
Lack of emotion
Wife has gained excessive weight or not physically attractive.
Age difference,
Wife ill,
Wife disabled,
Wife in care,
Depression,
Boredom,
Obsession or sex addiction,

What problems has punting ever solved for us? 

Easy……..That problem you have thinking of what you’re going to do in the afternoon.

[Momodan38]

Really?
I thought it was about folk expressing their views on a subject that's become a regular talking point, probably as it effects a large proportion of members.

I don't post to get high fives, and folk often disagree with me on a wide range of subjects.
I own up to being an old fart but I'm far from set in my ways .

What are your views on the subject?

I admitted to generalsing so relax.

He’s young and I was just telling him to back off and not be so easily baited. There are several of you in agreement so it’s easy to see where this is going. Nothing personally against you or anyone for that matter.

My views? You can glean from my posts. But to further clarify it’s mostly in agreement to yours, but I agree with PYWM that there’s a lot mental gymnastics going on. I’m not casting judgement on those said mental gymnastics, I even encourage it for punters. Like I said earlier, if they can’t cope then they’ll have to a) punt openly with the partner’s blessing, b) leave the partner or c) give up paying for sex.

As for “punting saves marriages” it sounds a little too righteous for my tastes, but I’m in agreement with others using if it helps them cope with what they are doing.

[Stevelondon]

I admitted to generalsing so relax.

He’s young and I was just telling him to back off and not be so easily baited. There are several of you in agreement so it’s easy to see where this is going. Nothing personally against you or anyone for that matter.

My views? You can glean from my posts. But to further clarify it’s mostly in agreement to yours, but I agree with PYWM that there’s a lot mental gymnastics going on. I’m not casting judgement on those said mental gymnastics, I even encourage it for punters. Like I said earlier, if they can’t cope then they’ll have to a) punt openly with the partner’s blessing, b) leave the partner or c) give up paying for sex.

As for “punting saves marriages” it sounds a little too righteous for my tastes, but I’m in agreement with others using if it helps them cope with what they are doing.

I hope you’re not on about that religious righteousness guff.
Cos I’m an atheist, agnostic, non believer whatever.

But if it upsets your delicate palate.   So be it. 😂

[Momodan38]

I hope you’re not on about that religious righteousness guff.
Cos I’m an atheist, agnostic, non believer whatever.

But if it upsets your delicate palate.   So be it. 😂

Take a 5 second time out from trying to sound and look cool online and re-read what I said.

FYI I’m an atheist too.

[pantywetter]

I am not married but have had many long term relationships.

The sex always goes off the boil but I’ve usually kept it to at least once  per week.  I would leave if it got worse than that. 

I have had a dissatisfied feeling for my whole adult life.  I want more sex and more varied sex.  It occasionally comes to the fore and results in an argument but generally I bite my tongue if I’m otherwise happy.  I’m sure I’m not perfect either. 

Escorts meet my needs outside of that. 

I have had 2 affairs with escorts and both were heartbreaking, one in particular.  I’m never doing an affair again.

[Stevelondon]

Take a 5 second time out from trying to sound and look cool online and re-read what I said.

FYI I’m an atheist too.

Chill bruv 😂

Believe you me. I don’t try to be anything online. Never mind sound or look cool 

I have re-read your post by the way.

[Thephoenix]

I admitted to generalsing so relax.

He’s young and I was just telling him to back off and not be so easily baited. There are several of you in agreement so it’s easy to see where this is going. Nothing personally against you or anyone for that matter.

My views? You can glean from my posts. But to further clarify it’s mostly in agreement to yours, but I agree with PYWM that there’s a lot mental gymnastics going on. I’m not casting judgement on those said mental gymnastics, I even encourage it for punters. Like I said earlier, if they can’t cope then they’ll have to a) punt openly with the partner’s blessing, b) leave the partner or c) give up paying for sex.

As for “punting saves marriages” it sounds a little too righteous for my tastes, but I’m in agreement with others using if it helps them cope with what they are doing.

Fair comments!

Apart from you assuming I was intending to bait anyone, or that the guy is young 

 Btw, if I'm any more relaxed I'll fall over, but thanks anyway.

[Momodan38]

Chill bruv 😂

Believe you me. I don’t try to be anything online. Never mind sound or look cool 

I have re-read your post by the way.

Oh wow, I’m dealing with such a laid back, cool and witty comedic genius, I better bow out now… 😂

Fair comments!

Apart from you assuming I was intending to bait anyone, or that the guy is young 

 Btw, if I'm any more relaxed I'll fall over, but thanks anyway.

Like I stated I wasn’t saying you were personally baiting him. I apologise if it came out that way. I was stating the pack mentality some exhibit. For example, stevelondon ignored my post until he was emboldened by your reply and joined in. He’ll probably pretend it wasn’t the case and I’ll just pretend to believe him.

Anyway, PWYM is a big boy and I’ll take my own advice and bow out 

PS - Don’t worry stevie you’re still totally sooo cooool 😂

[the gardener]

Next year will be our 50th wedding anniversary. I had my first punt in 2013, IIRC, I am starting to realise I'm not the youthful man I used to be and like dress sense your memory becomes less sharp as the years roll by. We still had sex but it had become very samey and my wife seemed to become disinterested which made it less satisfying for me. Mindful of Betjeman saying during an interview as an old man that he regretted not having enough sex I contemplated punting.

The internet made it readily accessible and I stumbled onto AW. My first punt was with a gorgeous Latvian girl who let me cum in her mouth. As I felt close to my climax I asked if I could cum in her mouth and the heightened sensation when she said yes was wonderful. My wife had only agreed to do that once and refused with distaste whenever I asked again. There were a handful of "accidents" on a very few occassions over the years but it was something she didn't want to do.

I felt a twinge of guilt, easily dismissed when weighed against the pleasure I could indulge in. I met some very smart ladies, two of whom I saw regularly for eight or nine years (along with other escorts to provide wider variety) until we moved away. I experienced EAS with one of them and thought of leaving my wife for her. I know it was a bad idea, it was only loosely considered by me in a day dreaming sort of way. I never told her, we did go on a few trips abroad which were great fun, with satisfying sex every day. Made me feel like a young man again.   

These days as my manhood is reluctant to respond I realise my shagging days are over. Unlike Betjeman I wont think if I'm interviewed I'll say I regret not having enough sex. Punting didn't save my marriage, it made me happy indulging in my desire for sex. My wife didn't suffer from it apart from me being a bit moody with her on occassion, I've never told her and I don't think she has had any suspicions but who knows, fortunately I was able to indulge without impacting our financial situation

[pbrown355]

gardener, before you put yourself out to grass should you not be researching Viagra etc?

[ik8133]

Next year will be our 50th wedding anniversary. I had my first punt in 2013, IIRC, I am starting to realise I'm not the youthful man I used to be and like dress sense your memory becomes less sharp as the years roll by. We still had sex but it had become very samey and my wife seemed to become disinterested which made it less satisfying for me. Mindful of Betjeman saying during an interview as an old man that he regretted not having enough sex I contemplated punting.

The internet made it readily accessible and I stumbled onto AW. My first punt was with a gorgeous Latvian girl who let me cum in her mouth. As I felt close to my climax I asked if I could cum in her mouth and the heightened sensation when she said yes was wonderful. My wife had only agreed to do that once and refused with distaste whenever I asked again. There were a handful of "accidents" on a very few occassions over the years but it was something she didn't want to do.

I felt a twinge of guilt, easily dismissed when weighed against the pleasure I could indulge in. I met some very smart ladies, two of whom I saw regularly for eight or nine years (along with other escorts to provide wider variety) until we moved away. I experienced EAS with one of them and thought of leaving my wife for her. I know it was a bad idea, it was only loosely considered by me in a day dreaming sort of way. I never told her, we did go on a few trips abroad which were great fun, with satisfying sex every day. Made me feel like a young man again.   

These days as my manhood is reluctant to respond I realise my shagging days are over. Unlike Betjeman I wont think if I'm interviewed I'll say I regret not having enough sex. Punting didn't save my marriage, it made me happy indulging in my desire for sex. My wife didn't suffer from it apart from me being a bit moody with her on occassion, I've never told her and I don't think she has had any suspicions but who knows, fortunately I was able to indulge without impacting our financial situation

Thanks for sharing, have you stopped punting now since your manhood has been a bit reluctant?