The evil of some men

[Stevelondon]

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[akauya]

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Don't know what to say 

[MissWolf]

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I've just read about this case, makes me absolutely sick to the stomach,  what an absolute horror show, that poor woman.

I've just had a heated discussion with a male colleague over this, he cannot understand how she had no idea it was happening,  his argument is that surely she would realise something was up when she woke up 

No just no, if he can be devious enough to drug her and arrange this then he's savvy enough to clean her up and make sure they didn't damage her, after all they were apparently led to believe she was pretending to be asleep.... yeah like fuck 

[RedKettle]

The handful of men who declined because she was asleep must be feeling relief - but perhaps also some guilt for not reporting it.   

[Stevelondon]

The handful of men who declined because she was asleep must be feeling relief - but perhaps also some guilt for not reporting it.

Absolutely RD.
Hang their heads in shame and saying nothing makes them just as guilty in my book.

[MissWolf]

So this evil bastard has pled guilty to all charges and admits he is a rapist, he says he truly loves his wife but he was abused as a child and that's what caused him to have this twisted side.

I'm sorry but what absolute bollocks, abuse is horrendous at any age but it doesn't excuse you for going on a 10 year rate fantasy trip.

He is claiming that all 50 of his Co defendants 100% knew what was going on and that the defence which some have used of, they thought it was a sex game the couple played and that the wife was only pretending to be asleep is not true, he is determined to take all 50 with him it seems and with that I agree they should all 50 face the same consequences.

The police are saying they are working to identify a further 30 men.

She is fast becoming a national hero and by choosing to wave her right to anonymity she is showing true courage,  she says it is not her shame to carry it is his and the other men's and fair play to her for that.

[MissWolf]

So as a bunch of hopefully sexually enlightened folk and I'm sure a large percentage of us are a bit kinky, I have a question.

At what point do you pull the plug,
If you were contacted by the male of the couple to take part in a 'sex game' of this nature and it was something that piqued your interest,  what safeguards do you put in place?
What checks do you make to make sure this is consensual

I ask because surely these are the type of questions a judge/prosecutor will ask to establish if one of the 50 was unaware that this was not a game.

 

[jeanphillipe]

These kind of things aren't my cup of tea to start.

But , hypothetically, the times we live in I would definatley want a pre meeting with all parties also a confirmation in watsapp or text

[bigden40]

So as a bunch of hopefully sexually enlightened folk and I'm sure a large percentage of us are a bit kinky, I have a question.

At what point do you pull the plug,
If you were contacted by the male of the couple to take part in a 'sex game' of this nature and it was something that piqued your interest,  what safeguards do you put in place?
What checks do you make to make sure this is consensual

I ask because surely these are the type of questions a judge/prosecutor will ask to establish if one of the 50 was unaware that this was not a game.

 

If it were me I’d have wanted to meet, or at least speak, to the woman ahead of taking part in this “game”.  I would see the game described as being a form of CNC role play and therefore consent is an important part of that. 

I also like to think I could tell the difference between a comatose woman and one pretending to be asleep. 

[MissWolf]

If it were me I’d have wanted to meet, or at least speak, to the woman ahead of taking part in this “game”.  I would see the game described as being a form of CNC role play and therefore consent is an important part of that. 

I also like to think I could tell the difference between a comatose woman and one pretending to be asleep.

Exactly this, having been part of the BDSM scene for a few years prior to escorting I know how hard it is to 'fake' sleep to that level, I cannot see how any of them can defend what they took part in.

[Stevelondon]

I e been into the fetish/BDSM scene for a number of years. Albeit only lightly and always on the pro side of things.
Having sex with a comatose female is definitely not something I would fantasise about. In fact I’ve never heard any of my fetish friends ever talking about it.

It reeks to me of necrophilia to be honest.
It wouldn’t be me so I’d never even want to meet up with anyone offering it in the way of a service……

[timsussex]

re Necrophillia
wasn't there was a divorce case many years ago where a husband insisted his wife lie in a cold bath for 5 mins before sex !


perhaps an urban myth

[Stevelondon]

re Necrophillia
wasn't there was a divorce case many years ago where a husband insisted his wife lie in a cold bath for 5 mins before sex !


perhaps an urban myth

She told her lawyers that but as the house we lived in at the time only had a shower………

Bugger.
Forget I said that.

[elnukky]

So as a bunch of hopefully sexually enlightened folk and I'm sure a large percentage of us are a bit kinky, I have a question.

At what point do you pull the plug,
If you were contacted by the male of the couple to take part in a 'sex game' of this nature and it was something that piqued your interest,  what safeguards do you put in place?
What checks do you make to make sure this is consensual

I ask because surely these are the type of questions a judge/prosecutor will ask to establish if one of the 50 was unaware that this was not a game.

 

For this particular kind of kink, I would want a video of her explaining why she gets off of what she wanted me to do to her and other details like my name, date, code words etc.

[myothernameis]

So far 50 men have been charged, but in a small french village, there are around 30 men who also took part, have yet to be identified, and seemingly this is splitting the villagers with there opinion on this subject

[akauya]

So as a bunch of hopefully sexually enlightened folk and I'm sure a large percentage of us are a bit kinky, I have a question.

At what point do you pull the plug,
If you were contacted by the male of the couple to take part in a 'sex game' of this nature and it was something that piqued your interest,  what safeguards do you put in place?
What checks do you make to make sure this is consensual

I ask because surely these are the type of questions a judge/prosecutor will ask to establish if one of the 50 was unaware that this was not a game.

 

Anyone who gets involved in this kind of scenes/play/fantasies/kink there has to be unambiguous and clear consent from everyone involved. Consent can only be given directly by the person involved in the play - you don't get consent from a third person or by proxy. If the person you want to play with is asleep then they can't give consent. No consent, no play.

In BDSM for example it's essential to have consensual negotiations prior to acting any scene, that's when safe words are agreed. Even when dealing with extreme scenes (e.g. CNC Consensual Non-Consent) there has to be a prearranged signal or a specific gesture, to indicate withdrawal of consent.


---

As an aside note. Anyone interested in BDSM and learning more about this I would encourage going to one of Club DVS' events, they run in-depth workshops on consent. Google them.

[akauya]

For this particular kind of kink, I would want a video of her explaining why she gets off of what she wanted me to do to her and other details like my name, date, code words etc.

Hmm sorry mate. That would not be enough for me to accept she is giving consent. What if the video was taken off context from a porn video. What if she was acting and was coerced into making the video. As I said in my previous post, to me consent has to be given directly and has to be unambiguous from the person involved. Not from a third party or by proxy. To me a video is still a proxy.

[elnukky]

Hmm sorry mate. That would not be enough for me to accept she is giving consent. What if the video was taken off context from a porn video. What if she was acting and was coerced into making the video. As I said in my previous post, to me consent has to be given directly and has to be unambiguous from the person involved. Not from a third party or by proxy. To me a video is still a proxy.

No need to be sorry. You have your own requirements 

[DastardlyDick]

This sort of activity does nothing for me, even if it's fully consensual.
I can't see how any of the co-defendants can say they thought it was consensual when, as the article says, "The father of three recruited men to rape and sexually abuse her from an online chatroom, where members fantasised about performing sexual acts on non-consenting partners".
If I was on a Jury, that would be good enough for me to find them guilty.

[RedKettle]

I am not often amazed by things these days, getting to an age when you have seen everything.  However my jaw hit the floor when the mayor of the place was interviewed and basically said "well it is not as if anyone died".

If that is a typical attitude in France they have a real problem with "toxic masculinity".

[MissWolf]

I am not often amazed by things these days, getting to an age when you have seen everything.  However my jaw hit the floor when the mayor of the place was interviewed and basically said "well it is not as if anyone died".

If that is a typical attitude in France they have a real problem with "toxic masculinity".

Absolutely agree I wanted to weep, he should be locked up with the rest of the cunts but then maybe he's one of the 30 unidentified men.

That attitude is draconian to the extreme it dehumanises and devalues the victims of this kind of crime, whatever their gender.

[RedKettle]

Absolutely agree I wanted to weep, he should be locked up with the rest of the cunts but then maybe he's one of the 30 unidentified men.

That attitude is draconian to the extreme it dehumanises and devalues the victims of this kind of crime, whatever their gender.

I was thinking how could this happen on such a wide spread basis with so many men, then heard that interview and thought - oh yea that is how!

[scutty brown]

Is it my false memory but wasn't there around seven years ago a couple in the Bristol area who offered a "fuck me while unconscious through drugs" service like this on AW?
Something like the husband was paid downstairs, then the punter went upstairs to the wife's room, she remained immobile while getting barebacked. I think she wore a hood/mask as well.
I'm sure it was discussed on here, but the chances of finding it now would be impossible

[Murray Mint]

Is it my false memory but wasn't there around seven years ago a couple in the Bristol area who offered a "fuck me while unconscious through drugs" service like this on AW?
Something like the husband was paid downstairs, then the punter went upstairs to the wife's room, she remained immobile while getting barebacked. I think she wore a hood/mask as well.
I'm sure it was discussed on here, but the chances of finding it now would be impossible

Your memory is mostly correct, but it was well over a decade ago, and I'm sure she wasn't unconscious/drugged, but merely blindfolded. It was a consensual kink, if a little unsavoury, and was certainly discussed on that other forum.

[MissWolf]

Today the verdicts were given and every defendant was found guilty,  51 men in total, the right result and hopefully an opportunity to open a new chapter in French law in regardsto rape and sexual assault, I'm sure she will go on to be a role model and champion for women to afraid to come forward.

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[timsussex]

20 years for the husband - his lawyers are considering an appeal against the sentence ! (which was the maximum )

[mills_and_bhuna]

20 years for the husband - his lawyers are considering an appeal against the sentence ! (which was the maximum )

Unbelievable.
But not surprising .
The thing I found most unbelievable about this case was the number of men who participated and were traced, the number who maybe declined being filmed and thus presumably escaped justice , and presumably a number who were offered and knew what was going on and declined but never alerted police to protect this poor woman.
Mind boggling .
It's made me re-evaluate my trust in anyone.
God knows how women feel.

[RandomGuy99]

20 years for the husband - his lawyers are considering an appeal against the sentence ! (which was the maximum )

Too short for what he did.

[The Gambling Whale]

Cinq à sept sums up the typical Frenchmans' attitude to women but this case takes the biscuit.
Great that all were found guilty and bravo to Gisèle Pelicot for standing up.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

A brave, brave, lady:)..

Just a question where did that twat get the drugs to make her unconcious?..

Surely these wern't over the counter ones?...

[The Gambling Whale]

A brave, brave, lady:)..

Just a question where did that twat get the drugs to make her unconcious?..

Surely these wern't over the counter ones?...

A simple Google search gets you most drugs from outside the EU if that's where he got them.

[Jacksonwood]

A truly heinous crime and glad they got such sentences.

To bring it back home for a while I do remember when I was doing a few months work in Bristol a few years ago there was a SP called "naked and bound Linz " in Ckevedon I think. They advertised the fact she was naked and bound to a bed and could be blindfolded for punters to use as they wished. The profile said the door would be open , just walk in so your thing and walk out.

Possibly the most disgusting and disturbing thing I've seen on AW.

[scutty brown]

A truly heinous crime and glad they got such sentences.

To bring it back home for a while I do remember when I was doing a few months work in Bristol a few years ago there was a SP called "naked and bound Linz " in Ckevedon I think. They advertised the fact she was naked and bound to a bed and could be blindfolded for punters to use as they wished. The profile said the door would be open , just walk in so your thing and walk out.

Possibly the most disgusting and disturbing thing I've seen on AW.

that will be the one I was thinking of in my post #22

[Stevelondon]

A truly heinous crime and glad they got such sentences.

To bring it back home for a while I do remember when I was doing a few months work in Bristol a few years ago there was a SP called "naked and bound Linz " in Ckevedon I think. They advertised the fact she was naked and bound to a bed and could be blindfolded for punters to use as they wished. The profile said the door would be open , just walk in so your thing and walk out.

Possibly the most disgusting and disturbing thing I've seen on AW.

There are kinks and then there are disturbing kinks.
At the risk of being offensive. Who would want to do something like that. ?

[Watts.E.Dunn]

There are kinks and then there are disturbing kinks.
At the risk of being offensive. Who would want to do something like that. ?

Quite a lot of the time, how many reviews have said that she was so disintrested it was like fucking a sack of spuds!..

[Blackpool Rock]

A truly horrific case and you have to admire her courage in going public, she must be such a strong person to do so and perhaps she has actually become stronger by doing so 

Happily married for 50 years and all this shit was going on, listening to the news what led to him being caught was when he was caught back in 2020 upskirting a woman in a supermarket, what a twat   

[DastardlyDick]

A truly heinous crime and glad they got such sentences.

To bring it back home for a while I do remember when I was doing a few months work in Bristol a few years ago there was a SP called "naked and bound Linz " in Ckevedon I think. They advertised the fact she was naked and bound to a bed and could be blindfolded for punters to use as they wished. The profile said the door would be open , just walk in so your thing and walk out.

Possibly the most disgusting and disturbing thing I've seen on AW.

Not something I would want to participate in, but since it was consensual, it's a way off what this poor woman went through, conscious or not.

[myothernameis]

A truly heinous crime and glad they got such sentences.

Some of the men are to make an appeal, but looks like the appeal, wont be decided by the judge, but rather a jury made up of 12 men & women.  Now it will be interesting to see how the appeal's fold out, and how the jury find for there appeals

[scutty brown]

Not something I would want to participate in, but since it was consensual, it's a way off what this poor woman went through, conscious or not.

You're only assuming it was consensual. You don't know.

[DastardlyDick]

You're only assuming it was consensual. You don't know.

Well, another post on this thread seems sure that it was consensual. As the SP concerned was conscious, and could have made her lack of consent pretty obvious but didn't, I will draw the obvious conclusion.

[daviemac]

Well, another post on this thread seems sure that it was consensual. As the SP concerned was conscious, and could have made her lack of consent pretty obvious but didn't, I will draw the obvious conclusion.

She could only do that if she wasn't terrified of the consequences if she did.

[scutty brown]

She could only do that if she wasn't terrified of the consequences if she did.

Precisely so

[Doc Holliday]

You're only assuming it was consensual. You don't know.

The issue of consent is interesting and very relevant to this case. It was only after reading about it that I learned that, unlike the UK and many other countries, 'consent' does not appear in the definition of rape in France. I think that distinction may have added to the increased likelihood that this happened on such a staggering large scale in France?

It seems fifteen EU countries include consent in the definition, but 12 others do not. A move by the EU to make this legal change across all member states was rejected.

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[finn5555]

She could only do that if she wasn't terrified of the consequences if she did.

Could have been consensual at the start, lots of unanswered questions will remain over the whole case