The Alabama nitrogen execution

[timsussex]

...

It may be better if there was an initial application of an anaesthetic agent, but I believe (feel free to correct) most of these are the ones that were used in the lethal injections and therefore aren't being provided. Would the drug companies take a different view if they were being used not as the lethal agent?

I doubt they would - after all it was not being used as a lethal agent before - it was the 2nd and 3rd part of the injection that was lethal

Perhaps start with normal air so the first 2 or 3 breaths are OK then a pre timed switch over or graual change to pure Nitrogen oreven as suggested start with laughing gas

[daviemac]

It may be better if there was an initial application of an anaesthetic agent, but I believe (feel free to correct) most of these are the ones that were used in the lethal injections and therefore aren't being provided. Would the drug companies take a different view if they were being used not as the lethal agent?

The drug companies won't allow any of their drugs to be used in executions and it's the first part of the three part lethal injection that induces unconsciousness but it would still be part of the execution process when nitrogen is used.

Now, they will only be available to buyers who certify that the drugs won’t be resold to prisons, Pfizer officials say.

 

[JontyR]

Thanks both for the clarification.

[berksboy]

It should be a bit obvious if a cartridge case is tipped with a bullet or not

You would i imagine be handed a loaded weapon so that would not tell you its a blank round but the lack of recoil when fired would.

[DastardlyDick]

What has this got to do with the topic of this thread. 

It was an example of how stupid some Americans are in reply to  the post quoted.

Sorry to go off topic.

[DastardlyDick]

It should be a bit obvious if a cartridge case is tipped with a bullet or not

That's why I said "preloaded" - each person in the firing squad picks up a preloaded rifle, one of which has a blank cartridge in it - no one knows who picked up the one with the blank, so every member of the squad can say "not me".
I've fired a bolt action Lee Enfield .303 rifle with both types of ammo, and there is a slight difference in recoil, but I would imagine that with the other distractions of a firing squad it may not be noticeable.

[mr.bluesky]

One thing that has not been mentioned in this case is the fact that Kenneth Smith was a hired killer, and paid $1000
to kill someone, A defenless woman who was stabbed to death so sorry I have no sympathy for him

[catweazle]

One thing that has not been mentioned in this case is the fact that Kenneth Smith was a hired killer, and paid $1000
to kill someone, A defenless woman who was stabbed to death so sorry I have no sympathy for him

By that argument,  though, every convicted killer should be executed. 

[Watts.E.Dunn]

It should be a bit obvious if a cartridge case is tipped with a bullet or not

Newtons Third rule IIRC?...

[scutty brown]

Newtons Third rule IIRC?...

True, but I was thinking more fundamental than that: one has a pointy end, one doesn't

[Blackpool Rock]

Surely they could rig up a gun or a few guns that could be fired remotely by 10 or 12 people simply pressing a button, that way half of the people pressing the button would fire a gun and half wouldn't however nobody would know whether they had or not

[timsussex]

Surely they could rig up a gun or a few guns that could be fired remotely by 10 or 12 people simply pressing a button, that way half of the people pressing the button would fire a gun and half wouldn't however nobody would know whether they had or not

or a small shaped charge placed on the chest ?  probably quicker than a bullet as well

[berksboy]

By that argument,  though, every convicted killer should be executed.

Yes please , i cant see what is wrong with that.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Yes please , i cant see what is wrong with that.

Everyone?
No matter the circumstances ?
Abused partners cracking up after decades of abuse?
Bereaved parents killing their children's killer ?

[JontyR]

Yes please , i cant see what is wrong with that.

ooh, you're hard.

[Stevelondon]

ooh, you're hard.

Definitely hard.

I’d guess he’d want them executed immediately after sentencing too.
Save all that faffing around with appeals etc 😂

[DastardlyDick]

True, but I was thinking more fundamental than that: one has a pointy end, one doesn't

But if the guns were preloaded by someone who wasn't in the firing squad those doing it would never see what had been loaded and sitting in the breach when they picked up the rifle.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

ISTR that in some countries Thailand i think, there was a machine gun or two behind a paper  screen aimed at the chair where the prisoner would be, and it was remoted operated on a timer system but it still needs spomeone to press the start sequence switch!..

[berksboy]

Everyone?
No matter the circumstances ?
Abused partners cracking up after decades of abuse?
Bereaved parents killing their children's killer ?

No not everyone but the ultimate crime deserves the ultimate punishment. The bereaved parents i dont believe would / should be prosecuted ,the state should be doing the job for them.

[berksboy]

Definitely hard.

I’d guess he’d want them executed immediately after sentencing too.
Save all that faffing around with appeals etc 😂

No i am not hard at all bit of a softy in fact.Of course they should be able to appeal as long as we dont go down the USA route.

If you were ever to have the grave misfortune of having someone you adored murdered and see close up the absolute devastion it causes i can assure you its not a laughing matter .

[catweazle]

"Deserves to die? I daresay he does. Many that live deserve to die.  But some  that die deserve to live. Can you grant that to them? No? Then be not so hasty in dealing out death in judgement "

Gandalf, in Lord of the Rings

[Colston36]

I seem to recall that one of the Supreme Court judges once said something along the lines of "a condemned prisoner cannot expect their execution to be painless - they need to know they're being put to death " (as if being strapped to a gurney and lethal drugs being pumped into your arm isn't knowledge  enough).

What a bunch of uncivilised people they are over there.

[berksboy]

If only the victims had the luxury of a quick pain free dignified death.Yes it should be as quick and pain free as possible but thats not necessarily the same as 100% pain free.

[scutty brown]

Once upon a time the answer to the best way to execute would have been easy: chloroform. Instantaneous anaesthetic and if overused shuts down the respiratory painlessly.
Can't buy or use it now though. Bloody global warming affects everything.

[JontyR]

No i am not hard at all bit of a softy in fact.Of course they should be able to appeal as long as we dont go down the USA route.

If you were ever to have the grave misfortune of having someone you adored murdered and see close up the absolute devastion it causes i can assure you its not a laughing matter .

Who's laughing?

Yeah its a terrible thing, someone who is innocent dying because of the actions of another.

The risk of executions is that exactly that may be happening.

[jackdaw]

I can’t remember the details but read a book many years ago going through the details of the various methods used in the US to carry out death sentence.

Fair to say all of the methods have run into problems at some time or other.
 
For example, get the set-up on an electric chair wrong, and the person executed can be cooked to death. In at least one case, the person was set on fire. (Hundreds of letters of complaint, most of them about the waste of electricity, the US public has a dark sense of humour.)

Makes me hope that set up at Dignitas is better organised.

[catweazle]

Makes me hope that set up at Dignitas is better organised.

The late great Sir Terry Pratchett, himself  an advocate  of assisted  dying , did a very incisive documentary on this.  He found a (very weathy) gentleman,  who had signed up with Dignitas  and this chap agreed to the whole  process being recorded.

At the Dignitas House, he and his wife sat on a sofa.   The lady from Dignitas asked him repeatedly if he still wished to proceed.

Finally she gave him a small cup of some poison.  Before releasing it into his hand, she again asked if he was sure, as swallowing the contents would kill him.

Again,  he agreed, and drank it. He quite quickly fell unconscious  ( apart from croaking "water  please" which was refused). He died, sat on the sofa,  with his wife holding his hand.

Not at all unpleasant   although his wife, I felt, disapproved but still went along with it.

One thing I did learn from the programme was that you have  to be able to physically lift the cup and drink  by yourself - they can't  administer it to you, as that would make it murder.

[yandex]

Yes please , i cant see what is wrong with that.

It's always good to see that a few people still trust the police to catch the real criminals first time, every time!   

[Munter84]

How do you propose they do that, hit him on the head with a big stick??? 

I'm sure the victim's family would have been in favour. In fact they'd probably have volunteered.

General anaesthesia? If it's effective enough to knock somebody out for open heart surgery, it's surely a humane enough way of making sure the prisoner is unaware of whatever method of death is coming their way.

[edit] I see this was addressed on the next page, fair enough the pharmaceuticals companies shouldn't be forced to support the death penalty (I suspect that's more for PR reasons than any genuine moral objections - this is an industry that's been cheerfully performing vivisection for decades), however this does create an unintended consequence wherein executions are made a lot more inhumane than necessary. Ideally there would be some way for the state to purchase anaesthetic without a paper trail to give private pharma companies deniability.

[daviemac]

Ideally there would be some way for the state to purchase anaesthetic without a paper trail to give private pharma companies deniability.

I'm not sure what part of the pharmaceutical companies will not supply drugs for use in executions you don't get.   


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Doctors won't administer the lethal injections either, do you think they should just put a mask on and do it anyway? 

[akauya]

I go to the US regularly for family and business there. But what a retrograde, nasty society it is. Way behind genuinely civilised countries - in so many ways .., and now due for another dose of the crook Trump.

Sad but true. Their police force is testament to what a backwards society the US is.

For example this case is so ridiculous it beggars belief...
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You can see the video of the cop assaulting the teenager here... hard to watch
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[DastardlyDick]

Sad but true. Their police force is testament to what a backwards society the US is.

For example this case is so ridiculous it beggars belief...
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You can see the video of the cop assaulting the teenager here... hard to watch
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The US is still a very racist society, for all the Legislation they enact to try and do something about it.
As for this "manslaughter" case, I can't see the victim actually producing this knife at any point in that video - I'd like to think the case will be thrown out as the Police have clearly lied.

[akauya]

The US is still a very racist society, for all the Legislation they enact to try and do something about it.
As for this "manslaughter" case, I can't see the victim actually producing this knife at any point in that video - I'd like to think the case will be thrown out as the Police have clearly lied.

I saw a longer video and no penknife was ever produced (but was found in the young man's pocket after the arrest). The manslaughter charge had nothing to do with a knife, they pinned that charge on him because the cop died of a heart attack some time later - which may have happened whether he had an altercation with the young man or not. It was obvious from the video the cop was on a power trip anyway, there was no reason to escalate the encounter the way he did. Three big cops manhandling this small young man and tasering him repeatedly when he clearly didn't understand what was going on and repeatedly shouting "I'm sorry". Police brutality at its finest.

[chrishornx]

The US is still a very racist society, for all the Legislation they enact to try and do something about it.
As for this "manslaughter" case, I can't see the victim actually producing this knife at any point in that video - I'd like to think the case will be thrown out as the Police have clearly lied.

the victim didn't produce a weapon. The victim was asked if he was in possession of  a weapon and he said no when he had  a knife

Did the police say he pulled  a weapon?