Boeing 737-Max by any other name: plane safety, comfort or price?

[mr.bluesky]

That one was down to the wrong sized screws being used when a window was replaced........layers a paint on the screw hole had confused the fitters

I heard the fitter fitted the wrong screws because he didn't check the size to the ones that should be fitted. The screws had been mixed up in the stores due to not being labelled correctly and poor lighting in the stores meant that just a quick visual comparison had been made. It was a number of factors that lead to this incident.

[scutty brown]

I heard the fitter fitted the wrong screws because he didn't check the size to the ones that should be fitted. The screws had been mixed up in the stores due to not being labelled correctly and poor lighting in the stores meant that just a quick visual comparison had been made. It was a number of factors that lead to this incident.

If you assume that you and I are both correct, it becomes an excellent model of the Swiss cheese accident model, when all the holes line up and something falls through the gaps

[chrishornx]

I heard the fitter fitted the wrong screws because he didn't check the size to the ones that should be fitted. The screws had been mixed up in the stores due to not being labelled correctly and poor lighting in the stores meant that just a quick visual comparison had been made. It was a number of factors that lead to this incident.

who told you that ?

I thought they used bolts not screws

[mr.bluesky]

If you assume that you and I are both correct, it becomes an excellent model of the Swiss cheese accident model, when all the holes line up and something falls through the gaps

Exactly that. You would not be surprised how this happens in the aviation industry.

[mr.bluesky]

who told you that ?

I thought they used bolts not screws

I will PM you later and fill you in on some details concerning this incident  can't say too much on this right now.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Another account m by Mentour pilot!...


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[PepeMAGA]

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[RandomGuy99]

who told you that ?

I thought they used bolts not screws

If they used bolts they would need access to the inside. They use screws.

[stampjones]

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Hmm a guy who flies 737s but has never flown an airbus can hardly give an unbiased perspective even if he ultimately cones down on the fence.

[FLYING BLUE]

Hmm a guy who flies 737s but has never flown an airbus can hardly give an unbiased perspective even if he ultimately cones down on the fence.

100% agree with you about the above

As a point in fact, that's exactly why I began my original post with this line - Although I have zero 1:1 experience of these particular aircraft

[RandomGuy99]

I see they've found 2 phones that feel from the plane and at least one of them is still working. The Find My Phone app really works. I can't wait to see the Apple ads saying "our phones are so good they can survive a fall from 17,000 feet".

[WASA38]

I see they've found 2 phones that feel from the plane and at least one of them is still working. The Find My Phone app really works. I can't wait to see the Apple ads saying "our phones are so good they can survive a fall from 17,000 feet".

-and a Portland teacher called Bob has found the blown-out panel complete with window in his back yard. Handy.

[WARSZAWA16]

Just heard that Franz Beckenbauer has died, aged 78.

[WARSZAWA16]

Just heard that Franz Beckenbauer has died, aged 78.

Apologies. Posted in wrong thread

[PepeMAGA]

Boeing shares have dropped around 10% as a result of the incident

[webpunter]

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"United finds loose bolts on several 737 MAX planes, raising pressure on Boeing"

These planes aint safe, certainly @ the mo

The US FAA can expect to be wined & dined in supa expensive restaurants as Boeing attempt to smooth things over

[timsussex]

Apparently no UK or EU plane has the same configuration but thats a pretty small crumb of comfort as there must be questions over the general manufacturing and tightening of bolts
Apparently there is a check/recall out on Boeing Tail fins on 737 and 787s
 

[mh]

If they used bolts they would need access to the inside. They use screws.

Not necessarily. If you mean a machine screw, it is effectively a bolt, with the head of a screw. A 'standard' screw as most people know them typically fastens to something other than a 'nut', e.g. binding into material such as wood or plastic and is tapered, though may not be pointed/self-tapping.

It's usually a bolt if it mates with a nut, whether or not that nut is loose or captive. But machine screws blur things further.

[mh]

According to the Times article, the aircraft that failed had experienced pressurisation warnings on three prior flights before the failure. 

[Doc Holliday]

I haven't followed this in any detail, but am I right in saying that the design allowed the option for a doorway to be blocked off with a panel (which has subsequently failed) allowing the company to have more seats?

If so then does that not affect the safety in terms of emergency evacuation routes etc or have I got that wrong?

[mr.bluesky]

I haven't followed this in any detail, but am I right in saying that the design allowed the option for a doorway to be blocked off with a panel (which has subsequently failed) allowing the company to have more seats?

If so then does that not affect the safety in terms of emergency evacuation routes etc or have I got that wrong?

As long as an aircraft has adequate emergency escape doors for the amount of passengers it carries then that's OK. The bigger the aircraft the more escape doors are required. As long as an aircraft can be evacuated in no more than 90 seconds using 50 % of its emergency exits.

[Doc Holliday]

As long as an aircraft has adequate emergency escape doors for the amount of passengers it carries then that's OK. The bigger the aircraft the more escape doors are required. As long as an aircraft can be evacuated in no more than 90 seconds using 50 % of its emergency exits.

Thanks for that. So why does the original design appear to have incorporated exits in excess of that which are presumably necessary to fulfill that evacuation criteria? Do other manufacturers also do this with their designs?

[RandomGuy99]

Thanks for that. So why does the original design appear to have incorporated exits in excess of that which are presumably necessary to fulfill that evacuation criteria? Do other manufacturers also do this with their designs?

Because different airlines allow different amounts of room between seat. The less room allowed, the more passengers they can carry. If they carry more passengers then they can swap out the plug in for a real emergency exit door and thus they can meet the evacuation speed requirement for operating the aircraft in that configuration. It's standard practice in the airline industry.

[Doc Holliday]

Because different airlines allow different amounts of room between seat. The less room allowed, the more passengers they can carry. If they carry more passengers then they can swap out the plug in for a real emergency exit door and thus they can meet the evacuation speed requirement for operating the aircraft in that configuration. It's standard practice in the airline industry.

  I see now, but if they decrease leg room to allow more seats and then as a result have to have an extra emergency door opened up, does that mean they then lose seats where the door is?

[RandomGuy99]

I see now, but if they decrease leg room to allow more seats and then as a result have to have an extra emergency door opened up, does that mean they then lose seats where the door is?

Normally the line of seats with the emergency exit in it has slightly more leg room to allow for people having to walk down it to get out of the emergency exit.  You sometimes get asked on a plane if you're happy sitting by the emergency exit as you'll be the one who has to open it if needed or be sucked out of the cabin in this case.

[PumpDump]

I can't believe people here are praising BA, I flew with them to Cairo and Istanbul in recent years and if the badge wasn't on the outside of the plane you would think you are flying Ryanair.

[mr.bluesky]

I see now, but if they decrease leg room to allow more seats and then as a result have to have an extra emergency door opened up, does that mean they then lose seats where the door is?

Exactly,  the area near to the emergency exits have to be kept clear at all times but if airlines can get away with cramming more seats in without compromising safety they will. Its more economical for them to fly a full aircraft than two half empty aircraft.  With the Alaskan airways incident it looks like safety was compromised.  This will be resolved fairly quickly as it reflects badly on Boeing and the airline company.  If all 737's are grounded until checks are carried it's going to cost all airline operators a lot of money. An aircraft only makes money when its flying.

[stampjones]

I can't believe people here are praising BA, I flew with them to Cairo and Istanbul in recent years and if the badge wasn't on the outside of the plane you would think you are flying Ryanair.

Yeah BA has been shit for years in my experience. For short haul you get a better quality of service and flight reliability (in terms of lateness) from easyjet

[Camargue]

I heard the fitter fitted the wrong screws because he didn't check the size to the ones that should be fitted. The screws had been mixed up in the stores due to not being labelled correctly and poor lighting in the stores meant that just a quick visual comparison had been made. It was a number of factors that lead to this incident.

Yes. The official report can be found here:
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