Ice hockey death

[Blackpool Rock]

When this hit the news a couple of weeks ago it was said to have been a tragic freak accident however another player has now been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

His neck was cut by a skate and they have been talking to various people and piecing together the exact chain of events, i'm assuming that if this is / was a total accident then there wouldn't be any charge as it would also call into question any death or serious injury caused while playing sport. 

Looks like there is more to come out about this but I hope it turns out to be exactly what they initially said it was and a tragic accident

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[chrishornx]

When this hit the news a couple of months ago it was said to have been a tragic freak accident however another player has now been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

His neck was cut by a skate and they have been talking to various people and piecing together the exact chain of events, i'm assuming that if this is / was a total accident then there wouldn't be any charge as it would also call into question any death or serious injury caused while playing sport. 

Looks like there is more to come out about this but I hope it turns out to be exactly what they initially said it was and a tragic accident

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it was only a couple of weeks ago BR

it could get very complicated

[mr.bluesky]

When this hit the news a couple of months ago it was said to have been a tragic freak accident however another player has now been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

His neck was cut by a skate and they have been talking to various people and piecing together the exact chain of events, i'm assuming that if this is / was a total accident then there wouldn't be any charge as it would also call into question any death or serious injury caused while playing sport. 

Looks like there is more to come out about this but I hope it turns out to be exactly what they initially said it was and a tragic accident

External Link/Members Only

Out of morbid curiosity I watched the incident to see what happened. I am quite a fan of NHL ice hockey and Ice Hockey in general and have been to ice hockey games many times and have watched many games over the years. It was like a high Kung Fu kick towards Adams , unfortunately he made contact with his throat causing a fatal injury. To me It looks like the kick was deliberate,  I'm sure he just meant to hurt him or scare him, unfortunately it had more serious consequences. Petgrave was one of the most penalised players in the league last season. The term for that sort of player is Goon or enforcer signed by teams for their toughness rather than Ice Hockey skills. The governing body of British Ice Hockey have now made the wearing of neck guards compulsory  in games .Unfortunately this does not cover the British Elite League but I've noticed more players wearing them now. A sad case

[Blackpool Rock]

it was only a couple of weeks ago BR

it could get very complicated

Yes I knew it was weeks but it came on the news again mid post and they said last month which must have taken my thought pattern off at a tangent

[Blackpool Rock]

Out of morbid curiosity I watched the incident to see ehat happened. I am quite a fan of NHL ice hockey and have watched many games over the years. It was like a high Kung Fu kick towards Adams , unfortunately he made contact with his throat causing a fatal injury.  It looks like the kick was deliberate,  I'm sure he just meant to hurt him or scare him ,unfortunately it had more serious consequences. Petgrave was one of the most penalised players in the league last season. The term for that sort of player is Goon or enforcer signed by teams for their toughness rather than Ice Hockey skills. The governing body of British Ice Hockey have now made the wearing of neck guards compulsory  in games .Unfortunately this does not cover the British Elite League but I've noticed more players wearing them now. A sad case

I've not seen any footage but just reading there appears to have been a high kick on him from a player with quite a poor disciplinary record and also known as "An enforcer" 
I know ice hockey can be quite brutal and years ago punch ups were common and an accepted part of the game (no idea if it's still like that) but I can't see how or why kicking another player would be necessary 

[mr.bluesky]

I've not seen any footage but just reading there appears to have been a high kick on him from a player with quite a poor disciplinary record and also known as "An enforcer" 
I know ice hockey can be quite brutal and years ago punch ups were common and an accepted part of the game (no idea if it's still like that) but I can't see how or why kicking another player would be necessary 

Yes punch ups on the ice are still an excepable part of the sport ( 10 minutes in the penalty box for fighting) I can only ever recall 2 incidents of players getting a slash to the throat by a blade. One was a net minder for Buffalo Sabres who when going down low to make a save was accidentally cut in the throat.  In both cases they survived.   In the case of Adam Johnson despite all efforts to stem the flow of blood by first aiders at the game he succumbed to his injury. Incidents like this are extremely rare in Ice Hockey

[chrishornx]

I've not seen any footage but just reading there appears to have been a high kick on him from a player with quite a poor disciplinary record and also known as "An enforcer" 
I know ice hockey can be quite brutal and years ago punch ups were common and an accepted part of the game (no idea if it's still like that) but I can't see how or why kicking another player would be necessary 

he sounds to be in trouble BR

[lostandfound]

I was shocked to read the reports at the time of the incident and I think it is justice that the player is being prosecuted.

[Blackpool Rock]

I was shocked to read the reports at the time of the incident and I think it is justice that the player is being prosecuted.

Yeah I guess equivalents in other sports would be thinks like an intentional high tackle in Rugby or intentionally running someone off the road in cycling or motorsport etc 

[steel14]

The arrest doesn't mean that they actually think it was deliberate, but given that someone died they will need to look into it in depth and an arrest allows them to go through a formal interview process under caution so that they can use that down the line.

I've played hockey myself for years and seen the incident. I'm not convinced it was deliberate, there's loads of examples of legs and skates coming up high during collisions as happened here, he might have pushed his leg out more than necessary but I don't think calling it a kung-fu kick is accurate or helpful. Similarly his PM record or being an enforcer don't matter here because there's a big difference between making big hits and being quick to drop the gloves to deliberately kicking out at someone, which honestly when you're playing all your instincts push you to avoid. That's why I've seen probably a hundred fights but don't recall ever seeing players refuse to shake hands at the end of a game.

If he is prosecuted it does indeed open up the whole game to legal challenges every time someone makes a hit and could well lead to the end of the sport, I really hope it doesn't come to that.

[mr.bluesky]

A simular incident happened in the Northampton saints v Exeter chiefs Rugby union match on Sunday where an Exeter player jumped up in the air to catch a high ball and kicked out his leg in a straight forward action motion kicking an oncoming Northampton player in the face. When the referee reviewed the incident on the big screen he gave the Exeter player a straight red card. Sports like Ice Hockey and Rugby are physical contact sports but players have a duty of care towards their fellow professionals. I have watched the Ice Hockey incident many times and I thought it was reckless and dangerous which unfortunately cost a players life. If there is one thing to come out of this is the compulsory wearing of neck guards so we never see a fatality on the ice ever.

[Jumping Jack Flash]

I really don’t think it looked remotely accidental

[alabama1]

The arrest doesn't mean that they actually think it was deliberate, but given that someone died they will need to look into it in depth and an arrest allows them to go through a formal interview process under caution so that they can use that down the line.

I've played hockey myself for years and seen the incident. I'm not convinced it was deliberate, there's loads of examples of legs and skates coming up high during collisions as happened here, he might have pushed his leg out more than necessary but I don't think calling it a kung-fu kick is accurate or helpful. Similarly his PM record or being an enforcer don't matter here because there's a big difference between making big hits and being quick to drop the gloves to deliberately kicking out at someone, which honestly when you're playing all your instincts push you to avoid. That's why I've seen probably a hundred fights but don't recall ever seeing players refuse to shake hands at the end of a game.

If he is prosecuted it does indeed open up the whole game to legal challenges every time someone makes a hit and could well lead to the end of the sport, I really hope it doesn't come to that.

His leg was up at shoulder height, heading straight for him, way before there was any collision. I can't get my head round how your not convinced that it was deliberate, if you have indeed seen the footage. It was pretty blatant !

[mr.bluesky]

His leg was up at shoulder height, heading straight for him, way before there was any collision. I can't get my head round how your not convinced that it was deliberate, if you have indeed seen the footage. It was pretty blatant !

I think most people who have seen the incident would agree with you. I have seen a number of interviews with ex NHL players posted on the Web, all of them say they cannot see how it was accidental, the only ones sticking up for this guy are fans of the Sheffield Steelers, the team he plays for.

[daviemac]

I think most people who have seen the incident would agree with you. I have seen a number of interviews with ex NHL players posted on the Web, all of them say they cannot see how it was accidental, the only ones sticking up for this guy are fans of the Sheffield Steelers, the team he plays for.

If the death was caused by a reckless or grossly negligent act then he could be charged with involuntary manslaughter and having seen the video it looks to me like it was both. What's he got his foot that high for? you can understand a footballer getting kicked in the face when the ball's high but a high foot on a hockey rink?

[Pillowtalk]

If he is prosecuted it does indeed open up the whole game to legal challenges every time someone makes a hit and could well lead to the end of the sport, I really hope it doesn't come to that.

I would say it opens up EVERY game/sport to legal challenges especially those that have physical contact ice hockey, football, rugby, boxing, cricket (bouncers) and more.

I would be very interested to hear the views of sports insurance companies on this. I would say all sports need to be reviewing their risk management policies and procedures and the mitigations in place to avoid/minimise various sports related risks.

[mr.bluesky]

Boxing is a sport that has been around for centuries,  it is a sport where the idea is to deliberately punch someone in the head to knock them out or score points and unfortunately there have been fatalities but boxers know the risks involved.  I have never known a fatality in Rugby or football which resulted from a reckless tackle  , plenty of serious injuries that have ended careers  yes. The ice hockey incident was wreckless endangerment in my opinion.  I have followed Ice Hockey for many years watching it live and following it on tv watching NHL games in America/ Canada. In all my years of watching the sport I have never seen anything like this which unfortunately cost Adam Johnson his life. I doubt the player involved Matt Petgrave will be found guilty if it comes to a trial , only he knows what his intentions were. I would say it's almost certainly the end of his hockey career whatever the outcome of the enquiry or if it goes to trial

[timsussex]

I would say it opens up EVERY game/sport to legal challenges especially those that have physical contact ice hockey, football, rugby, boxing, cricket (bouncers) and more.

I would be very interested to hear the views of sports insurance companies on this. I would say all sports need to be reviewing their risk management policies and procedures and the mitigations in place to avoid/minimise various sports related risks.

No - there are risks associated with any sport and you explicitly accept them - in Boxing you accept the you are going to get punched.
In football you don't and many people have rightly been charged with assault for throwing punches at "friendly" football matches
A bouncer at cricket is within the laws and is to be expected - a beamer is not and the Umpires will take action and if deliberate and injury is caused so will the police. I was once umpiring an U17 match which was shall we say 'competitive'  when one of our players bowled a beamer which missed. I took the captain and bowler aside and made it clear that I would give him the benefit of the doubt because if I thought it was deliberate he would never play for the club again

I'm not an ice hockey fan but I know it has a rough reputation - like the old joke I went to the Big Fight last night and a game of ice hockey broke out. However I'm pretty sure than a kick to the head is against the rules and even against covention of roughness

[akauya]

I saw the video and IMO that kick was intended to cause harm - it may not have intended to kill but definitely to cause damage to the victim.

I wasn't very clear on the law on manslaughter so I decided to read up on this. I found this very useful explanation from The Sentencing Council

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Based on the above, I wouldn't be surprised if Matt Petgrave is found guilty of manslaughter.

[Andywb]

I've not seen any footage but just reading there appears to have been a high kick on him from a player with quite a poor disciplinary record and also known as "An enforcer" 
I know ice hockey can be quite brutal and years ago punch ups were common and an accepted part of the game (no idea if it's still like that) but I can't see how or why kicking another player would be necessary 

The original coverage suggested that Petgrave was involved in a seemingly inconsequential collision immediately before the fatal impact. The suggestion was that the initial collision flipped him off balance resulting in his leg being raised.  I used to watch ice hockey in the North East for many years so such things can happen. But I've not seen the footage of this incident (and don't want to) so can't assess the evidence ......just referring back to early news coverage.

[PepeMAGA]

Why are they not naming him?

[mr.bluesky]

Why are they not naming him?

Purely for legal reasons ( innocent until proven guilty) but anybody who has seen a clip of the incident knows who it is. He is no longer in the Sheffield Steelers line up , they had their first game last Saturday since the incident, his name was scratched from the team list. He is now only out on bail.

[PepeMAGA]

Purely for legal reasons ( innocent until proven guilty) but anybody who has seen a clip of the incident knows who it is. He is no longer in the Sheffield Steelers line up , they had their first game last Saturday since the incident, his name was scratched from the team list. He is now only out on bail.

Yeah that's what I meant really, not sure it does any good when it's out in the public already

[scutty brown]

If the death was caused by a reckless or grossly negligent act then he could be charged with involuntary manslaughter and having seen the video it looks to me like it was both. What's he got his foot that high for? you can understand a footballer getting kicked in the face when the ball's high but a high foot on a hockey rink?

If he was actually employed as an "Enforcer" then I can see a bigger net being drawn as effectively the team and the league could be seen to be condoning violent behaviour that elsewhere could result in prosecution. Depending on what the police find, I can see this balooning into the realms of corporate manslaughter

[scutty brown]

Why are they not naming him?

Standard protocol now is to only name suspects when charged, not when arrested

[Chorley]

 Ive watched a lot  ice hockey over the years. It is a physically brutal, no-holds-barred sport, and violence is historically a part of the culture, particularly with 'enforcers', who have a cult-like status amongst fans. Players know what they are getting themselves into when they sign up.
 Having said all that, the footage looks pretty damning and is completely deliberate and reckless MHO. 

[Adoniron]

Ive watched a lot  ice hockey over the years. It is a physically brutal, no-holds-barred sport, and violence is historically a part of the culture, particularly with 'enforcers', who have a cult-like status amongst fans. Players know what they are getting themselves into when they sign up.
 Having said all that, the footage looks pretty damning and is completely deliberate and reckless MHO. 

It's either deliberate or it's reckless; it can't be both.

[daviemac]

It's either deliberate or it's reckless; it can't be both.

Of course it can be both, the kick looks to me to be deliberate and the fact it made contact where it did made it reckless.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

All for a judge and jury to decide!...

[Doc Holliday]

All for a judge and jury to decide!...

CPS first. He hasn't been charged yet has he?

[GreyDave]

Purely for legal reasons ( innocent until proven guilty) but anybody who has seen a clip of the incident knows who it is. He is no longer in the Sheffield Steelers line up , they had their first game last Saturday since the incident, his name was scratched from the team list. He is now only out on bail.

As some one who has has the unfortunate experiance of going though 2 1/2 years of Magstrates then moved up to C Court then pre trail hearings to be dismissed at a CC by judge after 4 days of full trail proceding and reasons of evidence presented ..

The acceptance by the Prosecution and in law is you are Charged with and they will build the case against you it is work for all of those involved and was both mentaly and finacily ruinious for myself and business partner.,,,, I make this comment as Our legal team stated to us .

... There is NO innocent until proven guilty ....Circumstances have been found that you can be charged with the offence , ignorance is no defence ....Your act of Dilagence and if this act applys to you in your conduct is all that is relevent in answering the charges....

That phrase I was told is from a Victorian novel and is not correct.... FYI... it was a business matter we had insurance for legal fees but this did not count as the charge was a Criminal so thousands were spent at the bidding of unaccountable public servants who created work for themselfs

 I fear the "sporting agression" seems to trancend the fairnes and skill needed to play the Ice Hockey and this is sad to all involved 

[GreyDave]

If he was actually employed as an "Enforcer" then I can see a bigger net being drawn as effectively the team and the league could be seen to be condoning violent behaviour that elsewhere could result in prosecution. Depending on what the police find, I can see this balooning into the realms of corporate manslaughter

 I sgree Sir  its the culture of the Game