Shoplifting and the breakdown of policing

[sir wanksalot]

Shoplifting appears to be reaching epidemic levels in parts of the country with mobs descending on specific stores and brazenly clearing the shelves. Often, the police are nowhere to be seen.

On some of my travels around Europe I have seen, what can best be described as, a two tier policing system. Local misdeameanours, parking tickets, domestic arguments, shop lifting etc are dealt with by the "City Police" whilst more serious crimes are dealt with by another branch.

Is it time to have a serious look at to how our policing works as it seems unfit for purpose?

[daviemac]

There's loads of different branches within our police forces already? What others do you want? 

They start from the normal 'beat bobby' going up through traffic, major crime, anti terrorist, diplomatic protection and everything in between. Northumbria even have Dedicated Liaison officers for sex workers.

It's a sad fact of life, just as they can't catch every speeder they can't catch every shoplifter, that's why shops have their own security.

[DastardlyDick]

They tried that with "Safer Neighbourhood Teams"  all that happened was the Officers on them often got "abstracted" to fill in for absence on response teams.
They can't recruit enough to replace the ones that are retiring or finding other jobs - apparently a "churn rate" of 78% is considered acceptable - let alone start whole new "tiers" . Then there's the thorny issue of money to pay for them.
I'll leave it there as this isn't the "Politics" thread.

[PepeMAGA]

Shoplifting appears to be reaching epidemic levels in parts of the country with mobs descending on specific stores and brazenly clearing the shelves. Often, the police are nowhere to be seen.

On some of my travels around Europe I have seen, what can best be described as, a two tier policing system. Local misdeameanours, parking tickets, domestic arguments, shop lifting etc are dealt with by the "City Police" whilst more serious crimes are dealt with by another branch.

Is it time to have a serious look at to how our policing works as it seems unfit for purpose?

Probably not serious enough penalties to deter it in the first place. In some parts of America it's basically decriminalized and the trend will probably spread to here.

[David1970]

Shoplifting appears to be reaching epidemic levels in parts of the country with mobs descending on specific stores and brazenly clearing the shelves. Often, the police are nowhere to be seen.

On some of my travels around Europe I have seen, what can best be described as, a two tier policing system. Local misdeameanours, parking tickets, domestic arguments, shop lifting etc are dealt with by the "City Police" whilst more serious crimes are dealt with by another branch.

Is it time to have a serious look at to how our policing works as it seems unfit for purpose?

The police are not interested in shopthieft, a manager of a store told me if it’s under £500 they are told not to waste police time.
He also told me 2 police watched him struggle with a thief in his shop, the did not intervene ,he had to let the thief go.
If the shop does apprehended a thief and phone the police to come they will be asked how much the theft was for advised to let the thief go.
Gangs and individuals know that shopthief is a low risk high reward crime, with no chance of the police getting involved.

[RedKettle]

It's a sad fact of life, just as they can't catch every speeder they can't catch every shoplifter, that's why shops have their own security.

It has got way beyond not catching every shoplifter - some shops are closing and others seriously considering it as they cannot cope with the level of shoplifting.  Small shops cannot afford dedicated security and where shops do have it often they are next to useless as tied up in rules and policies around what they cannot do.

Even where staff apprehend a shoplifter and have rounded up witnesses the police often do not attend and they have to let them go. 

On top of the policing issue most big chains instruct staff not to physically stop a shoplifter for H&S reasons. 

They are now aware that is almost a no risk method of getting stuff.

It is getting out of hand and we will need to address it.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Do what they do in some middle eastern counties cut their hand or hands off!.

Sorted!!

[DastardlyDick]

Do what they do in some middle eastern counties cut their hand or hands off!.

Sorted!!

You've got to catch them first, and that's the basic line of this thread - nobody's even trying to catch them.

[daviemac]

It has got way beyond not catching every shoplifter - some shops are closing and others seriously considering it as they cannot cope with the level of shoplifting.  Small shops cannot afford dedicated security and where shops do have it often they are next to useless as tied up in rules and policies around what they cannot do.

Even where staff apprehend a shoplifter and have rounded up witnesses the police often do not attend and they have to let them go. 

On top of the policing issue most big chains instruct staff not to physically stop a shoplifter for H&S reasons. 

They are now aware that is almost a no risk method of getting stuff.

It is getting out of hand and we will need to address it.

I quite agree about the shoplifting but my point was in reply to this - "On some of my travels around Europe I have seen, what can best be described as, a two tier policing system. Local misdeameanours, parking tickets, domestic arguments, shop lifting etc are dealt with by the "City Police" whilst more serious crimes are dealt with by another branch." we already have that?

I don't know the answer to the shoplifting issue, though I do know the police don't have the resources to respond to every instance immediately and do have to priorotise their responces in the same way the ambulance service and the NHS in general do.

[sir wanksalot]

There's loads of different branches within our police forces already? What others do you want? 

They start from the normal 'beat bobby' going up through traffic, major crime, anti terrorist, diplomatic protection and everything in between. Northumbria even have Dedicated Liaison officers for sex workers.

It's a sad fact of life, just as they can't catch every speeder they can't catch every shoplifter, that's why shops have their own security.

With all due respect Davie but I think you may be unaware of the shoplifting epidemic I am referring to.

I am not talking about the occasional shoplifter-I am talking about organised shoplifting, en masse, bordering on daytime looting.

Security staff are overwhelmed by the numbers.

[daviemac]

With all due respect Davie but I think you may be unaware of the shoplifting epidemic I am referring to.

I am not talking about the occasional shoplifter-I am talking about organised shoplifting, en masse, bordering on daytime looting.

Security staff are overwhelmed by the numbers.

I do know what you mean and like I said I don't know the solution, even if the police did respond immediately by the time they arrive the gangs will be long gone.

But once again my point was in response to - "On some of my travels around Europe I have seen, what can best be described as, a two tier policing system. Local misdeameanours, parking tickets, domestic arguments, shop lifting etc are dealt with by the "City Police" whilst more serious crimes are dealt with by another branch."

We already have that with different departments within the police and I did ask the OP what others he would like to see. 

[Squire Haggard]

There are lots of reports. I wonder if our own feralites got the idea from America?

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Our own feralites.....
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[RedKettle]

I quite agree about the shoplifting but my point was in reply to this - "On some of my travels around Europe I have seen, what can best be described as, a two tier policing system. Local misdeameanours, parking tickets, domestic arguments, shop lifting etc are dealt with by the "City Police" whilst more serious crimes are dealt with by another branch." we already have that?

I don't know the answer to the shoplifting issue, though I do know the police don't have the resources to respond to every instance immediately and do have to priorotise their responces in the same way the ambulance service and the NHS in general do.

I suspect more resources is part of it - plus perhaps better use of technology etc.  However I also think there needs to be something done to empower those running shops and in particular security guards so that they can take action.

[Stevelondon]

I can’t recall where I read it now.
At a Greggs store, they regularly had the same people just walking in. Helping themselves to drinks, crisis, sandwiches etc……. Then walking out.

Pointless reporting it, even with cctv. The police took no action. Apparently.

If I was in a queue, waiting to pay for my sausage roll n do’nut. I’d have tripped the bugger up on his or her way out. Accidentally m’lud…….   I would never dream of breaking anyone’s nose on purpose. 😂

[sir wanksalot]

I do know what you mean and like I said I don't know the solution, even if the police did respond immediately by the time they arrive the gangs will be long gone.

But once again my point was in response to - "On some of my travels around Europe I have seen, what can best be described as, a two tier policing system. Local misdeameanours, parking tickets, domestic arguments, shop lifting etc are dealt with by the "City Police" whilst more serious crimes are dealt with by another branch."

We already have that with different departments within the police and I did ask the OP what others he would like to see. 

Apologies then as it sounded like you were referencing the typical shoplifting problem that has existed for years whereas I am talking about the relatively new phenonemon of mass looting/shoplifting.

There's loads of different branches within our police forces already? What others do you want? 

They start from the normal 'beat bobby' going up through traffic, major crime, anti terrorist, diplomatic protection and everything in between. Northumbria even have Dedicated Liaison officers for sex workers.

It's a sad fact of life, just as they can't catch every speeder they can't catch every shoplifter, that's why shops have their own security.

I disagree that our current policiing is already divided up into branches which serve the community.

Traffic police is essentially "motorway" police. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of their time is spent on motorways, not really influencing issues in local neighbourhoods.

Major crime, anti terrorist, diplomatic.....none of which help to impact low level community crime.

If we bring more police in all under the same banner then they will just get pulled in the same direction as the existing police force. I think it was on this forum that someone coined the phrase describing the police as "paramilitary social workers".

There are no "beat bobbys" around my way and haven't been for years.

Current policing isn't working and so yes, perhaps a pseudo police force that works in conjunction with other departments could be a solution.

[daviemac]

I disagree that our current policiing is already divided up into branches which serve the community.

Traffic police is essentially "motorway" police. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of their time is spent on motorways, not really influencing issues in local neighbourhoods.

Major crime, anti terrorist, diplomatic.....none of which help to impact low level community crime.

If we bring more police in all under the same banner then they will just get pulled in the same direction as the existing police force. I think it was on this forum that someone coined the phrase describing the police as "paramilitary social workers".

There are no "beat bobbys" around my way and haven't been for years.

Current policing isn't working and so yes, perhaps a pseudo police force that works in conjunction with other departments could be a solution.

We'll just have to agree to differ as I think having different sections of the police force concentrating on what their department is tasked to deal with should get better results. As an example the section dealing with sex crimes being free to concentrate on that were able to smash a child sex abuse ring in the NE, a massive  service to the community. 

Traffic police deal with road crime, drug squad deal with drug crime and so on. BTW the term 'beat bobby' is a figure of speech, I thought you would realise, with the exception of city centres where there's loads on foot, police now patrol in cars, long gone are the days of them walking about or riding bikes.

Whether or not there are enough officers in the neighbourhood policing teams or enough 'beat' officers to deal with shoplifting is a different matter.

[timsussex]

Yes I'm old enough to remember when we had a village bobby and he knew all of us and especially the youths. 
I walk my dog for an hour most days I've seen a police car twice in the last 5 years while out walking.

[Thecunninglinguist]

Whilst there is a lot left to be desired in much of policing, it has to be remember that policing priorities are set out nationally by the College of Policing set up by the last government. Also local CPS set out instructions for the police as to what offences they will or will not prosecute and in what circumstances. Officers know that taking action on certain criminal offences is pointless, as it will go nowhere.

[Marmalade]

The videos suggest it includes masked gangs rushing a supermarket — a shop would need a lot of security to stop them and a lot of police work to trace them.

Poverty must be one factor. Prices have rocketed. So ordinary products (stolen) find a bigger black market. The price rises don’t affect the wealthy: they affect the lowest paid and unemployed.

(Editing to remove factors that might be deemed political after noticing I wasn’t in the politics thread).
Hand-wringing instead.

And it keeps shop security officers in a job. ffs!!

[DastardlyDick]

  Officers know that taking action on certain criminal offences is pointless, as it will go nowhere.

Exactly!

[Marmalade]

Exactly!

So true. But it’s almost equivalent to saying it isn’t illegal as far as shoplifters are concerned. Talk about a free ticket.

What other crimes could be made non-prosecutable? Driving a little over the speed limit? Nope. That’s a money spinner.

[DastardlyDick]

What other crimes could be made non-prosecutable? Driving a little over the speed limit? Nope. That’s a money spinner.

Depends upon what you mean by "a little" - I believe the current prosecution threshold is 10% + 2 mph.

[Marmalade]

Depends upon what you mean by "a little" - I believe the current prosecution threshold is 10% + 2 mph.

Great! Next time you get stopped, just say “it depends what you mean by 10%”! 

[Adoniron]

Retailers should pay for more, better trained security staff rather than expecting sales staff to put themselves in harm's way.  Its a business expense. They shouldn't expect taxpayers to pay for more police to protect their profits. The police should concentrate on protecting ordinary citizens from burglary, criminal damage and assault.

[RedKettle]

Retailers should pay for more, better trained security staff rather than expecting sales staff to put themselves in harm's way.  Its a business expense. They shouldn't expect taxpayers to pay for more police to protect their profits. The police should concentrate on protecting ordinary citizens from burglary, criminal damage and assault.

That is fine but it is then reflected in the prices that we pay.  However even if they have security staff those staff are often very limited in what they are allowed to do and as I mentioned above often have to let the thief go because the police will not respond.  So we end up paying in higher prices for both the stolen goods and the security guards.  Well except in the smaller stores who simply cannot afford security and stay viable - some of them are closing as they cannot win.

[willie loman]

Retailers should pay for more, better trained security staff rather than expecting sales staff to put themselves in harm's way.  Its a business expense. They shouldn't expect taxpayers to pay for more police to protect their profits. The police should concentrate on protecting ordinary citizens from burglary, criminal damage and assault.

as an ordinary citizen , i would like the police and courts to do their jobs, once we tolerate mass crime, we all suffer, how on  earth did we reach this point, where the police cant be arsed doing anything about blatant shoplifting, virtual store invasions,  i have no wish to live in a country where you are only safe in a development with private police, because thats where your views will lead us.

[sir wanksalot]

That is fine but it is then reflected in the prices that we pay.  However even if they have security staff those staff are often very limited in what they are allowed to do and as I mentioned above often have to let the thief go because the police will not respond.  So we end up paying in higher prices for both the stolen goods and the security guards.  Well except in the smaller stores who simply cannot afford security and stay viable - some of them are closing as they cannot win.

Precisely. There are not many businesses which would absord those kind of costs.The taxpayer will end up paying one way or another.

Security guards are usually equipped to deal with the odd shoplifter here and there, often repeat offenders. They are not equipped to deal with dozens of teens descending in a store and clearing certain shelves of high value goods

[Adoniron]

That is fine but it is then reflected in the prices that we pay.  However even if they have security staff those staff are often very limited in what they are allowed to do and as I mentioned above often have to let the thief go because the police will not respond.  So we end up paying in higher prices for both the stolen goods and the security guards.  Well except in the smaller stores who simply cannot afford security and stay viable - some of them are closing as they cannot win.

Then maybe your security measures should be directed to deterring shoplifters rather than trying to apprehend them afterwards?

[Adoniron]

Precisely. There are not many businesses which would absord those kind of costs.The taxpayer will end up paying one way or another.

Security guards are usually equipped to deal with the odd shoplifter here and there, often repeat offenders. They are not equipped to deal with dozens of teens descending in a store and clearing certain shelves of high value goods

How are the police going to deal with dozens of shoplifters unless we have large groups of officers patrolling every high street? Even if you had one police officer in each shop all the time it was open that wouldn't stop them.

[Marmalade]

Just trying to think of a positive future scenario (as simply blaming thugs is not awfully useful) …

How about…

Goods in shops are too easy to steal.

Make them less easy to steal 

Put goods in see-thru locked containers that are opened by touching with a credit card. Any goods removed are automatically charged to that card. Simples.

Once the containers are mass produced they won’t be too expensive either. Batches of them will just replace each supermarket shelf.

If there’s a subsequent run on stolen credit cards just add optical face recognition. Some Aldi stores have photo recognition already at automated checkouts.

[sir wanksalot]

How are the police going to deal with dozens of shoplifters unless we have large groups of officers patrolling every high street? Even if you had one police officer in each shop all the time it was open that wouldn't stop them.

I honestly don't know although Marmalade's idea above is maybe a thought worth considering.

The police around my way are invisible to most crimes, drug dealing, speeding. You're lucky to spot a patrol car once a month.

[DastardlyDick]

If there’s a subsequent run on stolen credit cards just add optical face recognition. Some Aldi stores have photo recognition already at automated checkouts.

I encountered a new (to me) thing in Sainsbury's today. If you use the self checkouts or "SmartShop" tills, there's a gate which you have to scan your receipt at before you can leave.
I don't know how that's supposed to stop "shrinkage" as it's called in retail - all you have to do is pay for 1 or 2 items to get a receipt, and walk out with the rest!

[Colston36]

I honestly don't know although Marmalade's idea above is maybe a thought worth considering.

The police around my way are invisible to most crimes, drug dealing, speeding. You're lucky to spot a patrol car once a month.

The current situation seems very similar to that in the 18th century when there was no police force, merely aged watchmen who were in no condition to catch thieves. The only difference now is that the police are not lacking in condition - just inclination.

[Colston36]

I honestly don't know although Marmalade's idea above is maybe a thought worth considering.

The police around my way are invisible to most crimes, drug dealing, speeding. You're lucky to spot a patrol car once a month.

The current situation seems very similar to that in the 18th century when there was no police force, merely aged watchmen who were in no condition to catch thieves. The only difference now is that the police are not lacking in condition - just inclination. Maybe there is just too much stuff around that' too easy to steal.

[Adoniron]

Just trying to think of a positive future scenario (as simply blaming thugs is not awfully useful) …

How about…

Goods in shops are too easy to steal.

Make them less easy to steal 

Put goods in see-thru locked containers that are opened by touching with a credit card. Any goods removed are automatically charged to that card. Simples.

Once the containers are mass produced they won’t be too expensive either. Batches of them will just replace each supermarket shelf.

If there’s a subsequent run on stolen credit cards just add optical face recognition. Some Aldi stores have photo recognition already at automated checkouts.

Some good ideas there.

How about keeping goods in storage behind the counter and you only get them when you've paid for them eg Screwfix, Argos. Obviously it wouldn't work with clothing but would with many other types.

Maybe also control entry to and exit from shops selling high value goods or those which are attractive to  thieves by barriers or doors?

However will the retail sector be willing to make the investment?

[charlesx]

I encountered a new (to me) thing in Sainsbury's today. If you use the self checkouts or "SmartShop" tills, there's a gate which you have to scan your receipt at before you can leave.
I don't know how that's supposed to stop "shrinkage" as it's called in retail - all you have to do is pay for 1 or 2 items to get a receipt, and walk out with the rest!

They tried this at my local store. Nobody paid any attention to the receipt scanning and just pushed their way through the gate, setting the alarm off. They had nothing to fear as they had the receipts and had paid for everything. The shop now leaves the gates open.

What was the point of this anyway? The shoplifters don't go near the tills, they just go in the shop, collect whatever they like, and walk straight out.

[RedKettle]

Then maybe your security measures should be directed to deterring shoplifters rather than trying to apprehend them afterwards?

Oh my god why did retailers never think of that. They could use security tags, in store detectives, CCTV, control exits…. The list is endless.

Idiot.

[RedKettle]

How are the police going to deal with dozens of shoplifters unless we have large groups of officers patrolling every high street? Even if you had one police officer in each shop all the time it was open that wouldn't stop them.

You are thinking about the wrong end of the problem. We have the gangs and industrial shop lifting because of a failure to police. If you start actually policing the problem and get some convictions then the gangs etc will reduce because they realise there is a risk. You do not need police in every shop you just need to create a perception that the police actually give a fuck.

[Marmalade]

At the moment if you go out with something where the security tag hasn’t been removed an alarm goes off and is frequently ignored. A better form of security tagging is needed, something that can be added to any goods in the same way as a barcode and disabled once payment is made.

It’s not hard to have double sets of doors. A bit like certain airport security systems. You go through the first set of doors which shut behind you. The second set, for exiting, only open if there is no security breach.

All this costs money and puts up prices. Perhaps fines imposed on shoplifters should go straight to the store involved, offsetting expenses.

[timsussex]

I'm entirely in favour of prosecuting shoplifters but would ask it to be applied the other way so if a shop overcharges they will be fined
As I'm retired so I have the time and after a bad experience a couple of months ago I check my supermarket bills 3 out of 20 have overcharged

[Marmalade]

I'm entirely in favour of prosecuting shoplifters but would ask it to be applied the other way so if a shop overcharges they will be fined
As I'm retired so I have the time and after a bad experience a couple of months ago I check my supermarket bills 3 out of 20 have overcharged

I think that’s a fair point. In my experience although it is quite rare it does happen, probably accidental, but unfair on the customer. Most people don’t check their bills on a big shopping so it goes unnoticed.

[Adoniron]

Oh my god why did retailers never think of that. They could use security tags, in store detectives, CCTV, control exits…. The list is endless.

Idiot.

I have home security - alarm and cctv but I don't expect the police to walk up and down the street outside my house at night and I don't expect to pay increased taxes to provide for the police to protect the profits of what are in some cases multi million pound organisations. If prices have to go up to pay for improved security then that's better than taxes having to go up. At least the cost is then borne by people who buy your stuff.
The fact is that when faced with crimes like assault, domestic violence, sexual offences, burglary which blight the lives of private citizens, shoplifting always will be a low priority.

[RedKettle]

I have home security - alarm and cctv but I don't expect the police to walk up and down the street outside my house at night and I don't expect to pay increased taxes to provide for the police to protect the profits of what are in some cases multi million pound organisations. If prices have to go up to pay for improved security then that's better than taxes having to go up. At least the cost is then borne by people who buy your stuff.
The fact is that when faced with crimes like assault, domestic violence, sexual offences, burglary which blight the lives of private citizens, shoplifting always will be a low priority.

But if you had a burglary and could hear the person in your house you would expect the police to respond.

The big chains spend a fortune on security.

Yes of course the police have to prioritise and if you actually read what has been posted I don’t think the answer is all to do with the police. But there has to be a recognition that the police need to step up more in this area.

[Adoniron]

The retail sector doesn't exactly help itself does it? To save themselves money the supermarkets have replaced most of their staffed checkouts with self-checkouts and even scan and go. This is an invitation to shoplift. Then having had the cheek to get me to do their job for them they want to check my shopping before I leave the shop. If they want to check it then can check it when it's on the belt at the till.

[daviemac]

The retail sector doesn't exactly help itself does it? To save themselves money the supermarkets have replaced most of their staffed checkouts with self-checkouts and even scan and go. This is an invitation to shoplift. Then having had the cheek to get me to do their job for them they want to check my shopping before I leave the shop. If they want to check it then can check it when it's on the belt at the till.

That is not the same as shoplifting being talked about here, do the organised gangs go anywhere near any tills?  and I think it's only a small minority who would deliberately make themselves a thief and not scan some of their shopping. The Asda I use have CCTV cameras looking down on every self checkout till, there's even a screen you can see your face on.

I use the scan and go all the time, what's the point of putting all my shopping in the trolly, taking it out again to get it scanned then put it back into bags? They do occasionally recheck some of my shopping so there is always a chance of them finding anything I might try to steal if I were that way inclined.

[Ali Katt]

I think there is a sense of apathy. The police as others have said rarely prosecute low value crime. I do agree that a few Gregg's teas and sausage rolls isn't taken seriously, but if someone is doing it everyday it could well be 100s of £ a year. That's what nobody wants to mention as well as the psychological impact on staff.

The other knock on effect is a higher price of goods and the intimidating presence of security guards and signs that makes for a less enjoyable experience. In Freakonomics one thing pointed was people steal less in small towns and villages due to them facing social exclusion and public shaming.

I worked in retail when I was younger and the people shoplifting were sadly stereotypical: drug addicts, school kids showing off, alcoholics and mental health issues. Occasionally you would get someone you wouldn't expect, but most of the time it was the druggies or beggars.

In the future I think you will need an id card to shop, similar to the lanyards people have in offices or colleges. Which would make banning easier.

[Ali Katt]

But if you had a burglary and could hear the person in your house you would expect the police to respond.

The big chains spend a fortune on security.

Yes of course the police have to prioritise and if you actually read what has been posted I don’t think the answer is all to do with the police. But there has to be a recognition that the police need to step up more in this area.

Thinking about one thing which can be reasonably effective and does work to an extent is shops communicating with each other "be on the lookout we had a shoplifter in a red jacket come in and steal"

[yandex]

As usual, complex issue with apparently (according to some) simple answers.

My local mini-supermarket has at least one man who walks in every day and picks up bottles of wine and sandwiches and then walks out. They occasionally try to stop him but he's a big chap and pushes past them shouting out that they've assaulted him. Last time I was there I could hear the commotion but the 3 women staff were powerless to do anything. One of them had pressed the security alarm and literally 5 minutes after the guy had walked out of the shop, a voice came over the loudspeaker asking if they needed help. The staff weren't too pleased and told them so. According to the staff, the shoplifter was known to the police but had addiction and mental health issues and no amount of being arrested is likely to deter someone like that (and that's all that can be said on the non-Politics thread).

As for the organised gangs, my issue there is who is buying the items being stolen? Plenty of 'decent, ordinary citizens' snaffling up online, supposedly second hand bargains, no questions asked. They are the ones providing the incentive and share much of the blame, IMO.

[sir wanksalot]

At the moment if you go out with something where the security tag hasn’t been removed an alarm goes off and is frequently ignored. A better form of security tagging is needed, something that can be added to any goods in the same way as a barcode and disabled once payment is made.

It’s not hard to have double sets of doors. A bit like certain airport security systems. You go through the first set of doors which shut behind you. The second set, for exiting, only open if there is no security breach.

All this costs money and puts up prices. Perhaps fines imposed on shoplifters should go straight to the store involved, offsetting expenses.

These ideas are great for the "traditional" shoplifter who tries to clandestinely nick things from a shop but this new breed of mobs who do not try to hide what they are doing and will break any door to get in or out is another thing entirely

[RedKettle]

The retail sector doesn't exactly help itself does it? To save themselves money the supermarkets have replaced most of their staffed checkouts with self-checkouts and even scan and go. This is an invitation to shoplift. Then having had the cheek to get me to do their job for them they want to check my shopping before I leave the shop. If they want to check it then can check it when it's on the belt at the till.

To save themselves money or to keep prices low for you?