Don't kill cash - the campaign by GB News

[myothernameis]

My local Asda are installing more self scan tills but half are card only and half cash or card, plus all the manned checkouts take cash.

The manned tills by the end of the year at least, could also operate as a self scan till.  Now I dont know if the Asda shop you shop in has had the new tills put in.  Major upgrades to be brought in for all Asda stores in the UK, and Express stores, and around 40 stores have the new till

From what I have been told, these tills will operate like the ones in Tesco, which function as a main till, and as a self scan til when the main till is closed, but only takes card payments

[PilotMan]

I for one am making an extra effort to use cash more often. One of the main reasons being with electronic transactions the banks are taking a cut from every single transaction, which is immoral. If you take an example of £100, the bank takes 0.15% each time it is spent. So when you buy something from a retailer for £100, the retailer gets £99.85, the bank keeps 15p. Might not seem a big deal, but it all adds up, and by the time it has been "transacted" two hundred times, it is now only worth £75 with the bank haven taken the other £25. If you take it to it's logical conclusion, eventually the bank will own the entire £100. If those 200 transactions had taken place with cash, the bank would have got none of it.

Utter crock and not logic - you clearly didn't scroll up the page and read my two posts above ⬆

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=379457.msg4009649#msg4009649

By your reckoning the banks should give us an electronic payments system with all the benefits that come with it, and provide it for free?

The true cost to handle cash (again see my post above) is way more than the small % the banks charge us for the convenience of not having to manage it.

And, as has been said, how do you expect a retailer to buy in goods from their suppliers if they aren't local and pay for them? You would have them take the bag of cash you dumped on them, jump in the car and drive to the supplier (during working hours of course) and give their supplier a pile of cash! - Ridiculous.

Retailer: "Oh, wait a minute, I don't want to drive to my supplier with this bag of cash, because I have a business to run. I'll do a bank transfer. Damn, now I have to take this bag of cash (that PumpDump gave me) to the bank (during working hours again)".

What an utterly ridiculous and unworkable idea!

I know you think you're being helpful to retailers by paying cash, but in reality you're actually costing retailers money by making them deal with the bits of paper and metal that you handed over, they're going to have to pay it in to their bank anyway - and pay the cash handling fees (which are as much as card fees).

Time for a re-think.

[daviemac]

The manned tills by the end of the year at least, could also operate as a self scan till.  Now I dont know if the Asda shop you shop in has had the new tills put in.  Major upgrades to be brought in for all Asda stores in the UK, and Express stores, and around 40 stores have the new till

From what I have been told, these tills will operate like the ones in Tesco, which function as a main till, and as a self scan til when the main till is closed, but only takes card payments

My local Asda have reduced the number of manned tills in favour of self scan ones and after, I think, 10pm there's no manned ones open. There's 2 section to the self scan, one for baskets and one for trolleys, both take cash and card plus there's a scan and go section that only takes card. 

[puntingking]

Cash is here to stay, it isn't viable to be totally cashless. You would end up in a situation where shops would be making a loss on some sales as the card charges would far outweigh the profit on the item. All school kids having to have a bank card? 

My local Asda are installing more self scan tills but half are card only and half cash or card, plus all the manned checkouts take cash.

 

on the subject of school kids - lots of schools now have cashless lunchtime. The parents pay via a school related app and the kids either uses their mobile to pay for school dinners or a school digital device. This happened in my nephews school.

[David1970]

i agree that no retailers as of yet have gone cashless. It's the fear of companies going cashless that frightens people that relies on cash. In fact, 3 small independent shops near me only take cash and don't accept digital payments.

As a retailer why would you prefer to pay higher bank charges with cash than electronic transaction, that makes no sense unless you have an another reason?

Not planning to slander your 3 local shops, but getting cash makes it so much easier to dodge taxes than electronic transactions, would you not agree?

[puntingking]

As a retailer why would you prefer to pay higher bank charges with cash than electronic transaction, that makes no sense unless you have an another reason?

Not planning to slander your 3 local shops, but getting cash makes it so much easier to dodge taxes than electronic transactions, would you not agree?

I would agree but does not mean to say that there are shops that only take cash and not digital forms of payments for legitimate reasons.
For example, I am against the surveillance cameras that are pretty much everywhere. That does not mean that I would like to commit a crime and dont want to be caught.
Same in this instant, cant tarnish everyone with the same brush and if businesses want to only accept physical cash as a form of payment then that is up to them.   
as a retailer you may want to accept only cash payments as this method may benefit your customer. Some people rely on cash as it is easier for them to budget.

[PilotMan]

I would agree but does not mean to say that there are shops that only take cash and not digital forms of payments for legitimate reasons.
For example, I am against the surveillance cameras that are pretty much everywhere. That does not mean that I would like to commit a crime and dont want to be caught.
Same in this instant, cant tarnish everyone with the same brush and if businesses want to only accept physical cash as a form of payment then that is up to them.   
as a retailer you may want to accept only cash payments as this method may benefit your customer. Some people rely on cash as it is easier for them to budget.

If you're not a criminal and are a law abiding citizen, surely you would rather be in a place that a potential criminal would think twice about, due to them being monitored? A significant number of crimes are solved through the use of CCTV, which wouldn't be the case were they not there.

What do you have to fear, and what exactly is it that you are against?

[PilotMan]

I would agree but does not mean to say that there are shops that only take cash and not digital forms of payments for legitimate reasons.
For example, I am against the surveillance cameras that are pretty much everywhere. That does not mean that I would like to commit a crime and dont want to be caught.
Same in this instant, cant tarnish everyone with the same brush and if businesses want to only accept physical cash as a form of payment then that is up to them.   
as a retailer you may want to accept only cash payments as this method may benefit your customer. Some people rely on cash as it is easier for them to budget.

I'm all for freedom of choice, we should let those who need to pay cash, pay in cash. But to take a specific stand and say you're going to pay cash as a protest is a bit silly and self defeating.

I mean, are YOU actually benefitting by carrying cash and paying cash?

[puntingking]

If you're not a criminal and are a law abiding citizen, surely you would rather be in a place that a potential criminal would think twice about, due to them being monitored? A significant number of crimes are solved through the use of CCTV, which wouldn't be the case were they not there.

What do you have to fear, and what exactly is it that you are against?

If I wanted to be on camera, I would get my own camera out. With CCTV and other tactics use, is has the potential to see each person as a potential criminal whereas my precognitive could be that I just don't want to filmed every time I go outside. 

[puntingking]

I'm all for freedom of choice, we should let those who need to pay cash, pay in cash. But to take a specific stand and say you're going to pay cash as a protest is a bit silly and self defeating.

I mean, are YOU actually benefitting by carrying cash and paying cash?

to be honest, every punter benefits to pay in cash when seeing a wg.
couples may benefit from paying in cash as they may share the same accounts and don't want the other one knowing what their partner got them for a birthday, valentine, Christmas gift.


also, it is easier to budget when payed in that way.

[daviemac]

If I wanted to be on camera, I would get my own camera out. With CCTV and other tactics use, is has the potential to see each person as a potential criminal whereas my precognitive could be that I just don't want to filmed every time I go outside.

I see it the other way, the CCTV I'm caught on will show I'm NOT a criminal so I can be ignored whilst at the same time it catches those who are breaking the law and helps to bring them to justice.

If you don't want to be caught on camera then the only solutions is to stay indoors, every shop has CCTV, your car is tracked by ANPR and your phone is tracked by location.

Only those who have something to hide object to it all.

[PilotMan]

to be honest, every punter benefits to pay in cash when seeing a wg.
couples may benefit from paying in cash as they may share the same accounts and don't want the other one knowing what their partner got them for a birthday, valentine, Christmas gift.


also, it is easier to budget when payed in that way.

Paying for hookers I agree, that's a very niche product, only enjoyed by men, so that's a minimum of 50% of the adult population out of the equation.

Gifting
So you're taking a stand that you will proactively pay in cash even though you can only offer three instances per annum where there could be a benefit for you.

The additional fault with that argument is the assumption that you, or anyone else for that matter, would be buying the gift in person, it ignores the growing percentage of buying gifts online.

Cash budgeting
I still don't see how it's easier to budget, that sounds more like a mindset issue, rather than a pay by cash issue.

I could see an old fashion argument in the days when wages were stuffed in envelopes with the pay slip written on the outside. The missus would take the cash and split it in to budgeted parcels. But I don't think people are paid their wages in cash any more? I think even benefits are paid in to your bank account?

So somebody would have to go to their bank and physically draw out the cash in order to plan their budget using cash.

I'm just not getting the logic of this argument that cash is better and fail to see how you personally benefit by your insistence on carrying and paying cash.

Your arguments about CCTV and paying cash sound more like an authority issue, rather than a practical issue 

[PumpDump]

I see it the other way, the CCTV I'm caught on will show I'm NOT a criminal so I can be ignored whilst at the same time it catches those who are breaking the law and helps to bring them to justice.

If you don't want to be caught on camera then the only solutions is to stay indoors, every shop has CCTV, your car is tracked by ANPR and your phone is tracked by location.

Only those who have something to hide object to it all.

How far would you take that, what is your red line? For example, would you object to an AI monitored CCTV being placed in your car to watch you driving, and anytime you break the law, 3 points automatically added to your licence?

[PumpDump]

Utter crock and not logic - you clearly didn't scroll up the page and read my two posts above ⬆

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=379457.msg4009649#msg4009649

By your reckoning the banks should give us an electronic payments system with all the benefits that come with it, and provide it for free?

The true cost to handle cash (again see my post above) is way more than the small % the banks charge us for the convenience of not having to manage it.

And, as has been said, how do you expect a retailer to buy in goods from their suppliers if they aren't local and pay for them? You would have them take the bag of cash you dumped on them, jump in the car and drive to the supplier (during working hours of course) and give their supplier a pile of cash! - Ridiculous.

Retailer: "Oh, wait a minute, I don't want to drive to my supplier with this bag of cash, because I have a business to run. I'll do a bank transfer. Damn, now I have to take this bag of cash (that PumpDump gave me) to the bank (during working hours again)".

What an utterly ridiculous and unworkable idea!

I know you think you're being helpful to retailers by paying cash, but in reality you're actually costing retailers money by making them deal with the bits of paper and metal that you handed over, they're going to have to pay it in to their bank anyway - and pay the cash handling fees (which are as much as card fees).

Time for a re-think.

I'm not doing it to be helpful, I never said that. I am doing it as I don't want to live in a cashless society. If more people insist in paying in cash, they will have to keep supporting it. The cash handling fee by banks is a new introduction. Banks were always happy to receive cash. Now they see more profit in electronic so trying their hardest to push everyone that way.

[Doc Holliday]

External Link/Members Only

Just been reading the smart meters thread also and I think Off Topic should be renamed the 'Grumpy Luddite Section' 

[Darren101]

Interesting.  I personally like having cash as an option but generally prefer to pay by card..  cash for anonymity, sure. If a business prefers cash to fiddle taxes, then tough for them. Because they don’t like fees, fair enough but they should just find a cheaper card processor.

People say for budgeting being is a reason, but I don’t really get that unless they never useonline  banking / banking apps.  The banking apps had been a game changer as I can look at my balance and transactions whenever I want (unless my phone dies on me). I’m guessing it only applies to ppl really bad with money and don’t go online.

I’m fine with the CCTV as they are. It is what it is. Even if you don’t like it, it’s not going to change and will only increase.  I’ve not got anything to hide (in the sense that  don’t I flog drugs/rob/steal)  but if I want to be a bit more anonymous to visit somewhere seedy, I can cover up with a hat.  I do hope they at least bother to use the AI to lock up thieves and thieves. They have been trialing this AI recognition cameras on cams  to catch wanted people and reinforce picked up a few.  Hopefully they qre dealt with properly.  I’m all for it if they take some scum off the streets.

I don’t think cashless society will happen in my lifetime?

[petermisc]

The cash handling fee by banks is a new introduction. Banks were always happy to receive cash.

Agreed that they were always happy to receive cash, but that was because they have always charged businesses for the pleasure of receiving their money, be it cash, cheques or whatever.  AFAIA the cash handling charge, like the cheque handling charge, is nothing new.

[Doc Holliday]

AFAIA the cash handling charge, like the cheque handling charge, is nothing new.

My first experience with opening a business account was around 1977 and charges were the norm back then. Some of those charges where calculated based on deposits made.

[PumpDump]

Well ChatGPT is the one that told me UK banks never used to charge businesses for cash deposit, it is a recent introduction. So I guess we should not reply on AI for our information!

[RedKettle]

I'm not doing it to be helpful, I never said that. I am doing it as I don't want to live in a cashless society. If more people insist in paying in cash, they will have to keep supporting it. The cash handling fee by banks is a new introduction. Banks were always happy to receive cash. Now they see more profit in electronic so trying their hardest to push everyone that way.

I think you are confused between personal and business accounts.  Cash handling fees for business accounts are normal and have been always.  They might sometimes set a nil charge on a small business account if they are trying to attract that sort of customer or want to appear community friendly. 

[PumpDump]

People say for budgeting being is a reason, but I don’t really get that unless they never useonline  banking / banking apps. 

For me, handing over £100 cash feels a lot more real than tapping my card. It makes me think about how much I am spending. It is too easy to walk in to a department store, pick out a bunch of expensive clothes and just put it on the card. When I have to get my wallet out, count out the cash, hand it over, and then look at my empty wallet it definitely makes me question if I really need what I am buying.

[PumpDump]

I think you are confused between personal and business accounts.  Cash handling fees for business accounts are normal and have been always.  They might sometimes set a nil charge on a small business account if they are trying to attract that sort of customer or want to appear community friendly.

Hey, argue the point with ChatGPT, not me 

ME
Have UK banks always charged fees to businesses for depositing cash?

ChatGPT

No, UK banks have not always charged fees to businesses for depositing cash. Historically, many banks offered cash deposit services as part of their regular banking services without charging additional fees. However, in recent years, some UK banks have started to introduce fees for certain types of transactions, including cash deposits. These fees may vary depending on the bank and the type of account held by the business. The introduction of fees for cash deposits is often attributed to factors such as increased regulatory requirements, the cost of handling cash, and changes in banking practices aimed at promoting digital transactions.

[PumpDump]

I think you are confused between personal and business accounts.  Cash handling fees for business accounts are normal and have been always.  They might sometimes set a nil charge on a small business account if they are trying to attract that sort of customer or want to appear community friendly.

You're going to love this:

Me
Regarding deposit fees for businesses, my friend told me "Cash handling fees for business accounts are normal and have been always". Is he right or wrong?

ChatGPT

Your friend's statement that "cash handling fees for business accounts are normal and have always been" is not entirely accurate. While it's true that some banks may have charged fees for certain business banking services, including cash handling, it's not accurate to say that these fees have always been present.

The banking landscape and fee structures have evolved over time, and while some banks may have charged fees for cash handling services in recent years, it hasn't always been the case historically. Banks used to offer a range of services to their business customers as part of their regular banking relationship without specific fees for cash deposits.

However, due to various factors such as changes in regulations, increased costs associated with cash handling, and shifts towards digital banking, some banks have introduced fees for cash deposits and other services. These fees can vary significantly depending on the bank, the type of account, and the volume of transactions.

Therefore, while cash handling fees have become more common in recent years, it's not accurate to say that they have always been a standard part of business banking services.

[Darren101]

For me, handing over £100 cash feels a lot more real than tapping my card. It makes me think about how much I am spending. It is too easy to walk in to a department store, pick out a bunch of expensive clothes and just put it on the card. When I have to get my wallet out, count out the cash, hand it over, and then look at my empty wallet it definitely makes me question if I really need what I am buying.

That's fair enough. I can see why as you physically part with the cash.

For me, emptying my wallet full of cash just means I'll have to find a cashpoint to get more out as the amount is normally insignificant compared to what's in the bank (or the wallet would get too fat) Most my spend is online / by card but of course, eveyrone's different.  I don't splurge on designer stuff without thinking it over. I'm a bit of a bargain hunter and also make sure I get maximum benefit for my spend.

The visibilty of all my credit card balances in the apps also help.  It's no longer a wait for you statement at the end of the month, but I also have a lot more accounts than the norm (blame Martin Lewis for his bank switching / credit card / find the best savings advice over the years). 

Everyone's different. Just do what works for you. 

[petermisc]

You're going to love this:

He probably is if by "ñot entirely accurate" he reads the same as I do, that it is almost but not completely accurate.

There may as it says historically have been a time when some banks didn't charge cash handling fees to smaller businesses, but that was historically back in the era when bank managers were bowler hatted custodians of your money and pillars of the community, not the servants of money grabbing multinational corporations that they are now.

It has long been common practice for banks to charge businesses for every transaction, be it cash, cheque or whatever.  There also used to be charges for private customers using cash dispensers.

[Doc Holliday]

He probably is if by "ñot entirely accurate" he reads the same as I do, that it is almost but not completely accurate.

It is a somewhat vague response 

I am relying on memory again here, but I'm sure banks used to charge fees on personal current accounts also dependent on numbers of transactions? I think around the early 1980s competition meant some banks introduced not charging fees if the account was in credit. Everyone else then had to follow suit and now charges only apply in overdraft situations. Further competition has meant some banks may now pay interest on current account balances.

[RedKettle]

Hey, argue the point with ChatGPT, not me 

ME
Have UK banks always charged fees to businesses for depositing cash?

ChatGPT

No, UK banks have not always charged fees to businesses for depositing cash. Historically, many banks offered cash deposit services as part of their regular banking services without charging additional fees. However, in recent years, some UK banks have started to introduce fees for certain types of transactions, including cash deposits. These fees may vary depending on the bank and the type of account held by the business. The introduction of fees for cash deposits is often attributed to factors such as increased regulatory requirements, the cost of handling cash, and changes in banking practices aimed at promoting digital transactions.

Let me see what am I going to believe, my own experience over decades in business and working with businesses or your quote from the AI?

Give me a few nano seconds to decide.

[RedKettle]

Could not get my comment outside the quote above - sorry!

[Darren101]

Out of curiosity, for a business, what is the cost of handling cash?  I appreciate, bigger businesses like Tesco probably get charged less due to volume.  What’s a ball park % for say, a small independent shop?

[PumpDump]

Let me see what am I going to believe, my own experience over decades in business and working with businesses or your quote from the AI?

Give me a few nano seconds to decide.

Well it raises a completely different point, should we really trust AI!! A topic for another day methnks.

[daviemac]

How far would you take that, what is your red line? For example, would you object to an AI monitored CCTV being placed in your car to watch you driving, and anytime you break the law, 3 points automatically added to your licence?

I'm not even going to reply to that, I've got no time for idiots.

[PumpDump]

I'm not even going to reply to that, I've got no time for idiots.

No further questions your honour 

[daviemac]

No further questions your honour 

Are you sure you don't want to ask me about anything else you've dreamt up that's extremely unlikely to ever happen?   

[PilotMan]

I'm not doing it to be helpful, I never said that. I am doing it as I don't want to live in a cashless society. If more people insist in paying in cash, they will have to keep supporting it. The cash handling fee by banks is a new introduction. Banks were always happy to receive cash. Now they see more profit in electronic so trying their hardest to push everyone that way.

Why don't you want to live in a cashless society?

[PumpDump]

Why don't you want to live in a cashless society?

Everything you spend can be tracked and attributed to you. It would even be possible to restrict what you spend your money on. It would also be possible to remove your ability to spend.

[PilotMan]

Out of curiosity, for a business, what is the cost of handling cash?  I appreciate, bigger businesses like Tesco probably get charged less due to volume.  What’s a ball park % for say, a small independent shop?

I couldn't tell you about the fees for a small independent shop, but I can provide an anecdote about having my fist limited co business account.

When I opened my first business bank account statement (yes in pre-internet days it came in the post), there were fees on there. I asked the Bank Manager (we actually had one) what they were for as they weren't itemised. He waffled on and made no sense, I pressed him and he basically admitted that he charged a fee that he felt was appropriate for the time he spent looking after our account. End of discussion.

I spoke with my accountant and he said that banks are the only organisation that can take money out of your account without notifying you beforehand.

Things have changed and are way more transparent and better legislated. I couldn't even tell you what my account fees are now, but it's not huge. We don't deal with cash as we're B2B.

I would say with almost certainty that all banks will have their fees published on their website.

[PilotMan]

Everything you spend can be tracked and attributed to you. It would even be possible to restrict what you spend your money on. It would also be possible to remove your ability to spend.

And what's wrong with all of your spending being tracked (but by who anyway?), when you draw cash that's attributed to you. What are you so desperate to hide, other than your spend on hookers?

How is it possible to remove your ability to spend?

[Darren101]

I couldn't tell you about the fees for a small independent shop, but I can provide an anecdote about having my fist limited co business account.

I would say with almost certainty that all banks will have their fees published on their website.

Ta.  Did a quick Google.  Seems to vary from 50p to 70p per £100 depending on which bank.

[puntingking]

This question was not asked of me.
But I can answer this question anyway.

Why don't you want to live in a cashless society?

If there was no more cash, then banks could possibly charge you from banking with them rather than the other way around. You may have to spend your money quickly before the bank eats it dry.  say something the bank doesn't like they may
debanked you which could leave you stranded and checked you right out of society.

These are all possible. Do I think this would happen? Just the thought of this could happen makes cash necessary.

Edit: I did hear a story during the nigel debanking story that a few sex workers was being debanked as the banks either didn't like what they do or they thought it was too risky to have them as their customers.

[Jerboa]

To many folk are so used to paying by card they think cash is a nuisance, just wait and see what might happens if the government introduced a CBDC, then say you upset a benevolent leader, and your account was frozen. Like the Truckers of Canada.

[Cupid Stuntz]

I know a retailer that deposits their cash takings into their personal account over the counter and then transfers it to their business account. I asked if that’s legal and she said yes, her accountant says it’s ok and the bank staff are happy to do it. Saving her money.

Same here except it was my 'personal banking manager' that suggested I do it to save money. Been doing that for 25+years.

[PumpDump]

And what's wrong with all of your spending being tracked (but by who anyway?), when you draw cash that's attributed to you. What are you so desperate to hide, other than your spend on hookers?

How is it possible to remove your ability to spend?

Sorry sir, you cannot purchase the steak today, your payment has been declined as you have used up you carbon credit allowance for meat. But can I interest you in this insect burger?!

[JontyR]

Sorry sir, you cannot purchase the steak today, your payment has been declined as you have used up you carbon credit allowance for meat. But can I interest you in this insect burger?!

No thank you, but keep these delusional fantasies coming, I'm lapping them up.

[PilotMan]

To many folk are so used to paying by card they think cash is a nuisance, just wait and see what might happens if the government introduced a CBDC, then say you upset a benevolent leader, and your account was frozen. Like the Truckers of Canada.

What you "cash" evangelists fail to grasp is that you are all paid through your bank, so your money is already in the banking system before you get hold of it.

How the f&!k does it make sense to take that money out of the bank and only exchange it hand to hand, and then go around believing that you're beating the system?

If the system wanted to beat you it wouldn't let you draw the cash out in the first place - you don't realise that you're just whipping boys for the conspiracy theory brigade. It's the conspiracy theorists who usually quote the Canadian Truckers banking freezes.

The truckers started their protests against the requirement to cross in to the US only if you were vaccinated. This protest then got hijacked by the conspiracy theory brigade and moved in to a much wider general protest about Covid restrictions. Part of the reason for the freezing of their accounts (and it wasn't that many people that had their accounts frozen) was because of the influx of funds from anonymous sources helping to fund widespread insurrection (AKA terrorism) against the Government and the anonymous funding of protests about covid restrictions.

We have similar legislation already in the UK to prevent funding of terrorism - so if the Government want to use it, they will.

The only way you're going to get anywhere near close to living in society without CCTV, ANPR, Digital Banking, Privacy Laws, government mandates and so on, is to buy yourself a plot of land, grow your own food, pull water from your own well, dig a cesspit, take on wood whittling as a hobby, gather fire wood to cook.

Off you trot, back to the dark ages.

[puntingking]

Sorry sir, you cannot purchase the steak today, your payment has been declined as you have used up you carbon credit allowance for meat. But can I interest you in this insect burger?!

+1

[PilotMan]

Sorry sir, you cannot purchase the steak today, your payment has been declined as you have used up you carbon credit allowance for meat. But can I interest you in this insect burger?!

LOL, I didn't think it would be long before you reduced it to the ridiculous, you didn't have anywhere else to go 

[puntingking]

What you "cash" evangelists fail to grasp is that you are all paid through your bank, so your money is already in the banking system before you get hold of it.

How the f&!k does it make sense to take that money out of the bank and only exchange it hand to hand, and then go around believing that you're beating the system?

If the system wanted to beat you it wouldn't let you draw the cash out in the first place - you don't realise that you're just whipping boys for the conspiracy theory brigade. It's the conspiracy theorists who usually quote the Canadian Truckers banking freezes.

The truckers started their protests against the requirement to cross in to the US only if you were vaccinated. This protest then got hijacked by the conspiracy theory brigade and moved in to a much wider general protest about Covid restrictions. Part of the reason for the freezing of their accounts (and it wasn't that many people that had their accounts frozen) was because of the influx of funds from anonymous sources helping to fund widespread insurrection (AKA terrorism) against the Government and the anonymous funding of protests about covid restrictions.

We have similar legislation already in the UK to prevent funding of terrorism - so if the Government want to use it, they will.

The only way you're going to get anywhere near close to living in society without CCTV, ANPR, Digital Banking, Privacy Laws, government mandates and so on, is to buy yourself a plot of land, grow your own food, pull water from your own well, dig a cesspit, take on wood whittling as a hobby, gather fire wood to cook.

Off you trot, back to the dark ages.

There a some people who dont even have a bank account. Albeit its a small amount of people.

[PilotMan]

There a some people who dont even have a bank account. Albeit its a small amount of people.

Yep, I know, one of them works for me, she's a pain in the !!&*!. If have to go to the cash point to draw the cash out every week!

Apparently her former husband got them in to a lot of debt and she said she needs to hide to avoid debt collectors. She said she would love to have a bank account and get a Tesco delivery instead of cycling the 2 miles and putting the stuff in her back pack. Also the reason she doesn't have a car (because they can trace me). She lives with a friend and pays her cash towards the rent.

I think she has only has a short time to go before the debt limit runs out (6 years) - then she said she'll be "back in the normal world".

So although she doesn't have a bank account, she would love to have one.

I feel sorry for her, she's late 50's, she does a stinky manual labour job for me (mucking out horses). She's potless, no assets and living courtesy of a friend. She had two jobs until late summer, when the other job finished because they went to live abroad, so the 20 hours per week I pay her is her only source of income.

[PumpDump]

LOL, I didn't think it would be long before you reduced it to the ridiculous, you didn't have anywhere else to go 

It is technically possible. And similar systems exist in China, have you seen their social credit system? To me, London feels more and more like China all the time.

And it would be possible for them to completely stop yoir ability to buy if you pissed them off.

[puntingking]

It is technically possible. And similar systems exist in China, have you seen their social credit system? To me, London feels more and more like China all the time.

And it would be possible for them to completely stop yoir ability to buy if you pissed them off.

I did hear that the mayor of london banned tommy robinson from entering all london boroughs.
Whether you agree or disagree with any person views, that is quite scary to be honest.