Author Topic: OceanGate  (Read 4370 times)

Offline Marmalade

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Good luck to the teams hoping to rescue the sunken Titan submarine and its occupants. Not looking good though. :(

On the positive side, the type of exploration undertaken by OceanGate could greatly expand our knowledge of this planet. A bit more investment in safety would be a plus!

Offline StingRay

Good luck to the teams hoping to rescue the sunken Titan submarine and its occupants. Not looking good though. :(

On the positive side, the type of exploration undertaken by OceanGate could greatly expand our knowledge of this planet. A bit more investment in safety would be a plus!

Not looking good at all, but we can hope!  :hi:
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Offline RadioKid

Supposedly it was terrible designed with huge safety issues.

Online Jumping Jack Flash

Even if they do locate them in time the slow speed that they will have to bring them up to avoid decompression sickness aka the bends will probably finish them off as they will run out of oxygen. Unless there’s some way of getting a fresh oxygen supply to them which I would have thought would be extremely difficult.

Offline myothernameis

There  is also the sanity of the persons trapped in the sub, and with oxygen running out, are they all able to keep them selves together

Offline RandomGuy99

I think it's unlikely they'll be found in time and if they are then it's unlikely they'll be recoverable in time. If they were going to be able to make it to the surface then they already would have.

The design of the submarine is pretty non-standard with no hatches and bolts having to be done up and undone to get them in and out. Those bolts are going to have to be done up tight and might fail over time. Although I guess as the pressure increases as they go deeper the pressure squeezes the components together.  With the design as it is there is no way to get them out of it while underwater without cutting holes in it or removing the bolts.

I suspect the pressure vessel probably failed early on and they all died.

I hope I'm wrong and tomorrow they all make it to the surface safe and well.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 08:47:32 pm by RandomGuy99 »

Offline mr.bluesky

Supposedly it was terrible designed with huge safety issues.

A former employee voiced concerns over safety issues a number of years ago and was sacked, he took them to court and they reached an out of court settlement. Not looking good for their rescue though . Even if they locate the vessel  how are they going to bring it back to the surface if it's incompacitated. The ocean is too deep for divers to go out and attach anything to it. :unknown:
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 08:58:31 pm by mr.bluesky »

Offline sir wanksalot

If any of you had the money would you have taken that trip?

I wouldn't.

Offline StingRay

If any of you had the money would you have taken that trip?

I wouldn't.

Nope!
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Online Ghost89

Not at all. While I’d love to go and see the titanic it’d have to be a properly built and maintained machine with all the safety certificates etc. not in some glorified water tank held together with gaffer tape and controlled by and Xbox controller. The expedition was reckless and fool hardy. And I think the people on board with all their wealth did not do enough independent research on the company they put their trust in. Hopefully they won’t pay for that with their lives.  Although I think the prospect of them being rescued let alone being found is looking slim.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 10:17:37 pm by Ghost89 »

Offline chrishornx

If any of you had the money would you have taken that trip?

I wouldn't.

absolutely not

Online Kev40ish

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If any of you had the money would you have taken that trip?

I wouldn't.

No I wouldn’t either, but there will always be people who want to feel special and show their wealth and happy to pay money to be one of the first to experience these sort of things..

I do have little sympathy if things go wrong.. Hubris leads to tragedy.

£250000 for a burial at sea plus all the cost of the people looking for them  :unknown:

Although do feel sorry for the family, apart from the stepson of one who thought it would be good to attend a Blink-182 concert

Online shaft10

No I wouldn’t either, but there will always be people who want to feel special and show their wealth and happy to pay money to be one of the first to experience these sort of things..

I do have little sympathy if things go wrong.. Hubris leads to tragedy.

£250000 for a burial at sea plus all the cost of the people looking for them  :unknown:

Although do feel sorry for the family, apart from the stepson of one who thought it would be good to attend a Blink-182 concert

I agree ...

I also think its about time expeditions or whatever you want to call them around the Titanic should be banned, they've been poking around it since it was discovered by Robert Ballard back in the late 80's, its a gravesite ffs. Theres nothing much more to learn about it, time to leave it in peace.

Offline RandomGuy99

If any of you had the money would you have taken that trip?

I wouldn't.
No, I wouldn't.  They've just done a full digital scan of the wreck. I'd love to have a look at that, but I definitely don't want to go 3000m underwater to see it in person.  That is scary.

Offline mr.bluesky

I agree ...

I also think its about time expeditions or whatever you want to call them around the Titanic should be banned, they've been poking around it since it was discovered by Robert Ballard back in the late 80's, its a gravesite ffs. Theres nothing much more to learn about it, time to leave it in peace.

Totally agree, this situation reminds me very much of the Apollo 13 incident back in 1970. I was only a young boy when that occurred and probably didn't understand the magnitude of the situation.  That fortunately had a happy outcome  but I cannot see this ending the same way. I hope I'm wrong but I think this could be an incident where nobody knows what happened to the submersible and it will never be found in time to save the crew

Offline Squire Haggard

If any of you had the money would you have taken that trip?

I wouldn't.

I wouldn't.

Offline Jonestown

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its a gravesite ffs. Theres nothing much more to learn about it, time to leave it in peace.

+1

Offline RandomGuy99

More ships and equipment arriving but they're all going to introduce more noise into the area which isn't good if you're trying to listen for noises from 1000s of metres underwater

Offline bigden40

The CEO of OceanGate, which is operating the missing Titanic tourist submarine, explains that the company didn’t want to hire any experienced “50 year old white guys” because they weren’t “inspirational.”

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Offline WDFORTE

I have hopes of them being found Alive. Maybe by this afternoon, just before their air supply runs out.
Fingers crossed, it must be scary as hell hundreds of meters down, lost and limited air.

I for one hope a good result comes.

Offline Marmalade

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The question I find interesting is, “Why do we care so much?”

5 people are likely to die in the Titan, though we hope they won’t.

If that’s just more ‘newsworthy’ than 58 illegal migrants dying in a capsized boat off Greece, the news is simply gauging public interest.

>The Titan is more unusual.
>We can — or prefer — to identify with those 5 rather than the illegal migrants.
>Approve or not, the Titan crew were doing something ‘interesting’.
>With their own money.
>(I won’t mention skin colour in case it bends the rules)
>We would get a bigger rush of pleasure if they are saved.
>Associated stories, the incredible depth, the relatively unknown seabed, the technology, the James Cameron movie, are interesting in some positive sort of way.
>If they die, chances are they’ll go down in history.
>Lots of photogenic images and representations.
>Envy? Would love to do it but not dying for it!
>It’s unusual (boat stories are too commonplace).

Things — and in this case, people — have whatever value we attach to them.
Right or wrong?

« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 12:33:26 pm by Marmalade »

Offline qarma

I for one hope a good result comes.

I think we all do, but the chances are so small of this ending well. Hard to imagine what they've gone through this whole time.

Offline maxQ

If any of you had the money would you have taken that trip?

I wouldn't.

Its a forum for punters, I think you know well what we would all spend the money on

Added to that, I think it amazing they found anyone willing to get into that death trap, never mind pay for a one way trip
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 12:59:42 pm by maxQ »

Offline mr.bluesky

The question I find interesting is, “Why do we care so much?”

5 people are likely to die in the Titan, though we hope they won’t.

If that’s just more ‘newsworthy’ than 58 illegal migrants dying in a capsized boat off Greece, the news is simply gauging public interest.

>The Titan is more unusual.
>We can — or prefer — to identify with those 5 rather than the illegal migrants.
>Approve or not, the Titan crew were doing something ‘interesting’.
>With their own money.
>(I won’t mention skin colour in case it bends the rules)
>We would get a bigger rush of pleasure if they are saved.
>Associated stories, the incredible depth, the relatively unknown seabed, the technology, the James Cameron movie, are interesting in some positive sort of way.
>If they die, chances are they’ll go down in history.
>Lots of photogenic images and representations.
>Envy? Would love to do it but not dying for it!
>It’s unusual (boat stories are too commonplace).

Things — and in this case, people — have whatever value we attach to them.
Right or wrong?

I think the Titanic has always fascinated the public as it has to be the most famous  (infamous) ship in the world. Even people who have no interest in maritime history know the story of what happened to it. I can fully understand people wanting to see the wreck (those that can afford it) but the more you read about the submersible vessel and the company who operated it you could see it was an accident  waiting to happen. Perhaps the people on board didn't fully know the risks involved.   I doubt they will be found either dead or alive unfortunately.  It will just be recorded as another tragic maritime accident.

Offline Marmalade

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Its a forum for punters, I think you know well what we would all spend the money on

Added to that, I think it amazing they found anyone willing to get into that death trap, never mind pay for a one way trip

I understand James Cameron did it several times on a Russian version.

Offline Marmalade

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I think the Titanic has always fascinated the public as it has to be the most famous  (infamous) ship in the world. Even people who have no interest in maritime history know the story of what happened to it. I can fully understand people wanting to see the wreck (those that can afford it) but the more you read about the submersible vessel and the company who operated it you could see it was an accident  waiting to happen. Perhaps the people on board didn't fully know the risks involved.   I doubt they will be found either dead or alive unfortunately.  It will just be recorded as another tragic maritime accident.

A good point. It’s just the science that fascinates me. Probably why I missed it. Did enjoy the film in its day though.

I suppose at that incredible depth, nearly all of it unexplored, there’s still the draw of the Unknown, the farthest reach. Not unlike Titanic itself, which was the biggest, the best ever.

Titanic’s accident was considered (mostly) unforeseeable at that time. The disaster brought about many new developments in safety procedures.

Perhaps publicity on the Titan will spur more investors and greater attention to safety. First, we need to know what went wrong…

Offline scutty brown

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Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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The real heros of the Titainc were the wireless operators banging out the CQD as was till they didnt have any power, and if the wireless opertor on the Californian hadnt been told to shut up by him thay might have got the distress call a lot sooner than the carpaithia and more lives would have been saved . However it was Marconi who was reponsible for the lives saved with his great invention:)

There was a good report by modern day structurail engineers who said the best outcome would have been if the Titainic had hit the berg head on yes some sections would have been flooded but not as many as the great scrape alongside..
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 01:38:59 pm by Watts.E.Dunn »

Offline sir wanksalot

Its a forum for punters, I think you know well what we would all spend the money on

Added to that, I think it amazing they found anyone willing to get into that death trap, never mind pay for a one way trip

But what wasn't my question.....

Offline Dark Vader


I do have little sympathy if things go wrong.. Hubris leads to tragedy.

£250000 for a burial at sea plus all the cost of the people looking for them

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Offline berksboy

Even if they do locate them in time the slow speed that they will have to bring them up to avoid decompression sickness aka the bends will probably finish them off as they will run out of oxygen. Unless there’s some way of getting a fresh oxygen supply to them which I would have thought would be extremely difficult.

They are in a submarine (of sorts) so the bends will not be a problem. Finding them will be one hell of a problem.

Offline Squire Haggard

Debris field found in search area. It does not look good.

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Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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No it dosen't poor sods:(

They've just said that the banging nioises were just ocean background sounds..
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 06:21:34 pm by Watts.E.Dunn »

Offline PepeMAGA

The CEO of OceanGate, which is operating the missing Titanic tourist submarine, explains that the company didn’t want to hire any experienced “50 year old white guys” because they weren’t “inspirational.”

External Link/Members Only
Yes he put identity politics over safety. The middle aged white man that raised concerns over the safety and got sacked was replaced by a 26 year old girl with a TikTok channel...

Offline JontyR

I think the Titanic has always fascinated the public as it has to be the most famous  (infamous) ship in the world. Even people who have no interest in maritime history know the story of what happened to it.

People like extreme or strange situations too when consuming their news. See the Thai football team in the caves.

They also like a mystery. See Nicola Bulley & Madeleine McCann.

They also like a rescue. Remember the whales in the arctic. Or the Chilean Miners.

All of these are staples of entertainment. Films, books, tv. 

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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So thats it then the press conference has stated the the Debris field was parts of the missing sub.

He didnt quite say how they would recover the bodies. I suspect that theres nothuig viable to recover, the implosion of the sub would have crushed anythig with in it with the sheer pressure of the water at that depth:((

Offline mr.bluesky

Looks like the debris field found is that of the missing submersible. Authorities say there was a catastrophic implosion.  At least those on-board would not have suffered a slow lingering death by oxygen starvation but its no consolation to the relatives and friends who knew them. The big question now is what caused it and if there was a major design flaw or structural failure

Offline cunningman

He didnt quite say how they would recover the bodies. I suspect that theres nothuig viable to recover, the implosion of the sub would have crushed anythig with in it with the sheer pressure of the water at that depth:((

My understanding of the analysis of the end of that Argentinian sub is that bodies are hit by a supersonic wall of high pressure water and they would probably not even register that it was about to happen, and would not have enough time to start to scream.

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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Well at some 6,000 pounds a square inch thats well going to hit you harder then tyson Fury can manage;!.

By a bloody long way and then some!.

Thats some 2.72 Tons a square inch or 4243 tons per square metre!!

Online shaft10

Looks like the debris field found is that of the missing submersible. Authorities say there was a catastrophic implosion.  At least those on-board would not have suffered a slow lingering death by oxygen starvation but its no consolation to the relatives and friends who knew them. The big question now is what caused it and if there was a major design flaw or structural failure

If I was working for OceanGate now I think i'd be looking for a new job .. they'll be wound up within 12 months after this. This sub (of sorts) looked liked a suped up 50 gallon drum controlled by a games console controller. Personally I wouldn't have got in it in a swimming pool never mind the North Atlantic ..
Ive read various reports this sub wasn't certified with the relevant manned submersible regulators so if thats the case, expect big claims to come in from the families

Online shaft10

Well at some 6,000 pounds a square inch thats well going to hit you harder then tyson Fury can manage;!.

By a bloody long way and then some!.

Thats some 2.72 Tons a square inch or 4243 tons per square metre!!

pretty much liquified at that depth and pressure

Offline RandomGuy99

If I was working for OceanGate now I think i'd be looking for a new job .. they'll be wound up within 12 months after this. This sub (of sorts) looked liked a suped up 50 gallon drum controlled by a games console controller. Personally I wouldn't have got in it in a swimming pool never mind the North Atlantic ..
Ive read various reports this sub wasn't certified with the relevant manned submersible regulators so if thats the case, expect big claims to come in from the families
I wonder if their life assurance covers getting in a small submarine and going 3000 metres underwater.

Presumably they sign a waiver before they get in the submarine along the lines of "You may die doing this. Please sign below to confirm that you're ok with this."

Offline mr.bluesky

The problem with a submersible is that anbody could design and build one and not have it passed for safety . It's not like an aircraft that has to comply with rigorous regulations and proven to be airworthy. If an aircraft design does not have an airworthy certificate  it does not fly. The Titan submersible was controlled by a games console controller.  It also had no seats inside it. Imagine having to sit on a hard floor for 8 hours or more.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 11:29:23 pm by mr.bluesky »

Offline Marmalade

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Presumably they sign a waiver before they get in the submarine along the lines of "You may die doing this. Please sign below to confirm that you're ok with this."

Yes. Quick look at the application form. I think it appears twice. In the list of possible side effects.

Offline JontyR

The problem with a submersible is that anbody could design and build one and not have it passed for safety .
Can't help but think that's going to change pdq.

Offline myothernameis

Presumably they sign a waiver before they get in the submarine along the lines of "You may die doing this. Please sign below to confirm that you're ok with this."

Wonder if this would include family members on dry land, who I suppose might want to sue, this company

Offline RandomGuy99

Interestingly, the US Navy is being a little cagey about the fact that they have a network of underwater microphones permanently in place to detect enemy submarines and apparently nuclear weapon tests. They clearly don't want to give away too much about the capability they have in this area.

Offline scutty brown

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Interestingly, the US Navy is being a little cagey about the fact that they have a network of underwater microphones permanently in place to detect enemy submarines and apparently nuclear weapon tests. They clearly don't want to give away too much about the capability they have in this area.

As I understand it much of reliance on the SOSUS network has been abandoned due to the risk of Russian interference with the cables.
Instead there is more reliance on satellites detecting subs through changes in the height of water as the sub moves along - in effect remotely sensing its underwater bow wave.

Offline badsin

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Interestingly, the US Navy is being a little cagey about the fact that they have a network of underwater microphones permanently in place to detect enemy submarines and apparently nuclear weapon tests. They clearly don't want to give away too much about the capability they have in this area.

Literally just been broadcast that the US navy did have audio of the implosion. Apparently on Sunday during the descent.

Offline scutty brown

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Literally just been broadcast that the US navy did have audio of the implosion. Apparently on Sunday during the descent.

Guessing here, but that explains why they didn't treat flying Magellan's deep dive gear from Jersey as urgent. Probably the only probe which could have towed the thing to the surface. The navy knew they were dead, so no need to rush and make mistakes