We now have Posts KARMA and reviews on the left side of discussion

[Doc Holliday]

Obviously not complaining as keen to earn my 6th little yellow square 

I could be wrong, but from memory five is the maximum 

[Doc Holliday]

What about a discussion board or thread that is only accessible for mods and helpers, with the intent of discussing best practice and way's to improve the site etc?

It's normal for Owner/Admin/Moderators to have access to their own section and I assume UKP is no different?

Forum helpers could have their own to liaise with each other with regard to their role, but I'm not sure that is needed? Has it been tried before?

Having a section where only mods and helpers can access to discuss best practice and the future development of the site is 'elitist' in nature and in any case there is only one person who decides about this and that is the owner. Forums are rarely a democracy  If the owner wants input from the membership he can obtain it from threads such as this. 

[Blackpool Rock]

It's normal for Owner/Admin/Moderators to have access to their own section and I assume UKP is no different?

Forum helpers could have their own to liaise with each other with regard to their role, but I'm not sure that is needed? Has it been tried before?

Having a section where only mods and helpers can access to discuss best practice and the future development of the site is 'elitist' in nature and in any case there is only one person who decides about this and that is the owner. Forums are rarely a democracy  If the owner wants input from the membership he can obtain it from threads such as this. 

Yes I would expect the owner / admin / mods to have a private section where they can discuss all manner of things but agree there isn't much benefit extending it to helpers.
One problem that would arise would be the constant talk of the "secret board / hidden section", I seem to recall it may have once been stated in the rules or somewhere else that there wasn't any secret board / hidden section but the question seemed to regularly pop up and cause friction / division

[Watts.E.Dunn]

I bet they'd h get nowt else done!, you can spend quite some time just reading this site let alone posting and lots of PM's..!..

[daviemac]

It's normal for Owner/Admin/Moderators to have access to their own section and I assume UKP is no different?

Forum helpers could have their own to liaise with each other with regard to their role, but I'm not sure that is needed? Has it been tried before?

Having a section where only mods and helpers can access to discuss best practice and the future development of the site is 'elitist' in nature and in any case there is only one person who decides about this and that is the owner. Forums are rarely a democracy  If the owner wants input from the membership he can obtain it from threads such as this. 

There is a moderators section where post reports and deleted posts are and before there were moderators OldAdmin tried giving access to forum helpers but that didn't work either. It lead to members being questioned about why they had reported someone or being told they shouldn't have reported something. Some helpers even reposted things from the deleted post section back to the main board.

[PilotMan]

There is a moderators section where post reports and deleted posts are and before there were moderators OldAdmin tried giving access to forum helpers but that didn't work either. It lead to members being questioned about why they had reported someone or being told they shouldn't have reported something. Some helpers even reposted things from the deleted post section back to the main board.

I can see things like this could have occurred, especially in the past given the "nature" of how members behaved at times.  It was a bit wild west,  with trigger happy bullies, gangs and adhoc allegiances, making the forum quite a hostile environment.

As Head1 is sweeping up with a fresh broom, maybe a good time to look at things again 

[Blackpool Rock]

I can see things like this could have occurred, especially in the past given the "nature" of how members behaved at times.  It was a bit wild west,  with trigger happy bullies, gangs and adhoc allegiances, making the forum quite a hostile environment.

As Head1 is sweeping up with a fresh broom, maybe a good time to look at things again 

Yes I remember being able to view the post reports and i'm sure like many others would tend to click on the post and take a read of the thread.
Unfortunately there were a whole load of members who took it as an opportunity to pile in and make the fire worse 

[daviemac]

I can see things like this could have occurred, especially in the past given the "nature" of how members behaved at times.  It was a bit wild west,  with trigger happy bullies, gangs and adhoc allegiances, making the forum quite a hostile environment.

As Head1 is sweeping up with a fresh broom, maybe a good time to look at things again 

Why? are things not running a lot smoother now than they were.  Why do you want to see post reports and deleted posts in any case, you can't take any action on them. 

The way it is now any member can report any other member for whatever reason and the know for sure the report, especially if of a confidential nature, will only be seen by the owner, mods and admin, it will not be shared with anyone else and whatever action is needed will be taken. If necessary the matter would be discussed privately via PM with the results made known to the other mods.

If you reported something very personal to you would you be happy for every forum helper to be aware of it. 

Edit

If you think it was hostile post 2017 you should have seen it at times prior to that.

[PilotMan]

Why? are things not running a lot smoother now than they were. 

Yes they are.

Why do you want to see post reports and deleted posts in any case, you can't take any action on them. 

I never asked to see that, nor did I mention it, someone else did. And no, I wouldn't want to see that, I don't see that it would serve any positive purpose.

The way it is now any member can report any other member for whatever reason and the know for sure the report, especially if of a confidential nature, will only be seen by the owner, mods and admin, it will not be shared with anyone else and whatever action is needed will be taken. If necessary the matter would be discussed privately via PM with the results made known to the other mods.

I'm perfectly happy with that.

If you reported something very personal to you would you be happy for every forum helper to be aware of it. 

No, I wouldn't be happy with that, and it isn't something I asked for.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there's been a mix up somewhere, none of the above are suggestions of mine 


Here's what I suggested.....

What about a discussion board or thread that is only accessible for mods and helpers, with the intent of discussing best practice and way's to improve the site etc?

[Lewis]

Surely Head1 as site owner should have at least 5 squares like a five ☆ general   

Or a McDonalds employee 

[scutty brown]

Yes I would expect the owner / admin / mods to have a private section where they can discuss all manner of things but agree there isn't much benefit extending it to helpers.
One problem that would arise would be the constant talk of the "secret board / hidden section", I seem to recall it may have once been stated in the rules or somewhere else that there wasn't any secret board / hidden section but the question seemed to regularly pop up and cause friction / division

Don't forget that "off-topic" was restricted access for a while - that was the origin of the "secret board" tales

[Doc Holliday]

I think there's been a mix up somewhere, none of the above are suggestions of mine 

Here's what I suggested.....

What about a discussion board or thread that is only accessible for mods and helpers, with the intent of discussing best practice and way's to improve the site etc?

That was your original post which Davie pointed out the history, but you then said this in reply to Davie suggesting it should be looked at again

I can see things like this could have occurred, especially in the past given the "nature" of how members behaved at times.  It was a bit wild west,  with trigger happy bullies, gangs and adhoc allegiances, making the forum quite a hostile environment.

As Head1 is sweeping up with a fresh broom, maybe a good time to look at things again 

[daviemac]

Follow the thread mate, I responded to a comment from the Doc to confirm that there is a mods section and saying why access to posts reports and deleted posts was no longer available to forum helpers. You then quoted my reply and said "maybe a good time to look at things again" what things do you think should be looked at again if not the subject being discussed and that is forum helpers access to reports and deleted posts.   

[Doc Holliday]

Don't forget that "off-topic" was restricted access for a while - that was the origin of the "secret board" tales

The 'Seeking' thread is also restricted I believe?

[shed]

What about a discussion board or thread that is only accessible for mods and helpers, with the intent of discussing best practice and way's to improve the site etc?

Daft idea in my opinion. But who am I to say

[PilotMan]

Don't forget that "off-topic" was restricted access for a while - that was the origin of the "secret board" tales

I don't think it should be held like a secret society, that's a sure way to alienate people. Especially those that are big positive contributors to the site, but maybe aren't a helper.

The idea is a space where Helpers and Mods can discuss things, ideas, suggestions that are beneficial to the board, without the clutter of it being a free for all with every UKP member chipping in. Alternatively you could say that how we're discussing it now, like on this thread, works fine. Maybe the Mods are happy without any additional input.

Maybe people don't care one way or another, it's just a suggestion.

N.B.

Having it to discuss what posts should be deleted, who said something that's wrong, who complained about who and what, isn't what I mean, these things already have a mechanism for being dealt with that works perfectly fine IMHO.

[PilotMan]

what things do you think should be looked at again if not the subject being discussed and that is forum helpers access to reports and deleted posts.   

What I originally said, and nothing else.

[Placebo88]

If a review is posted in the wrong section does that warrant a report or not? I had thought that helpers could see post reports as well as mods and moving threads to the correct sections seems like a helper level task which I wouldn't want to waste a mod's time with. Is a separate report to helper button an option in the site's script for simple things like this?

[daviemac]

What I originally said, and nothing else.

You said the issue of helpers seeing post report should be looked at again, you made that very clear when you quoted my post.   

[daviemac]

If a review is posted in the wrong section does that warrant a report or not? I had thought that helpers could see post reports as well as mods and moving threads to the correct sections seems like a helper level task which I wouldn't want to waste a mod's time with. Is a separate report to helper button an option in the site's script for simple things like this?

Just report it, if a helper notices then they will move it, if not a mod will react to the report and do it.

How would you, or anyone else for that matter, decide what is or isn't a matter for a helper or a moderator. The system as it is works very well, if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

[90125]

The 'Seeking' thread is also restricted I believe?

There is a restricted Seeking thread but there isn’t much activity on it now. Maybe it should be locked as the Open thread is much more active.

[Placebo88]

Just report it, if a helper notices then they will move it, if not a mod will react to the report and do it.

How would you, or anyone else for that matter, decide what is or isn't a matter for a helper or a moderator. The system as it is works very well, if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

The functions a helper is able to perform are basic admin corrections. As you said earlier on this page mods can also have to deal with sensitive, personal matters and make judgement calls and this is why reports are only viewable by them and the site owners.

If everything is working well then all good. Still, it cannot hurt to be open to ideas for possible enhancements such as the owner's are trialling with this new likes addition.

[daviemac]

If everything is working well then all good. Still, it cannot hurt to be open to ideas for possible enhancements such as the owner's are trialling with this new likes addition.

The things being put forward have all been tried in the past and they don't enhance the site, they complicate it.

Helpers seeing post reports - didn't work
Helpers seeing deleted posts - didn't work
Helpers freezing member's accounts - didn't work

The thing that would complicate the site the most would be to have a report to forum helper button. So you see a post that you think is something a helper can deal with so you report it to them, they decide it's outside of their remit so they then have to report it to the mods, how is that an enhancement?

There's a good guide in the punting wiki detailing what a helper can and is expected to do, it also shows what mods can do. -  External Link/Members Only

The basic system we have now works and works very well, Nothing wrong with putting forward or introducing new ideas as with the' like' button, but the emphasis being on new.

If a member reports a post any one of either the owner, admin or mods can take whatever action is needed, it doesn't need to be passed on. If a member reports a thread in the wrong region but when a mod looks a helper has already moved it so what? the mod has only wasted a few seconds, it really doesn't matter enough to develop a system to avoid it. The helpers do a sterling job of keeping the place tidy BTW.

[Doc Holliday]

I don't think it should be held like a secret society, that's a sure way to alienate people.

So how would you prevent that then? If this is to be some kind of discussion group about the future development of the site, then unless you produce minutes available to be viewed by the membership (ludicrous suggestion) it will be a 'secret society'. As I mentioned earlier (and which you either ignored or didn't challenge) it is also elitist in that it implies that one group of people (in this case forum helpers) are best placed to form that discussion. That does not mean they are not valued in the role they carry out and which, as a side note, has been enhanced since the dead wood was cut out by Head1 (including myself)

As I also mentioned, only the owner will decide how they see their forum developing. Those decisions are best placed on information gathered by the owner, from studying the whole forum including the data. There is much data available that we as members cannot see.

[Doc Holliday]

There is a restricted Seeking thread but there isn’t much activity on it now. Maybe it should be locked as the Open thread is much more active.

Interesting, thanks for that.

I fully understand the rationale as to why it was restricted, in a similar way that the massage threads are not viewable to non members, but it shows how if something is available to the masses and not restricted, it will thrive and even replace that which is not.

[RedKettle]

The things being put forward have all been tried in the past and they don't enhance the site, they complicate it.

Helpers seeing post reports - didn't work
Helpers seeing deleted posts - didn't work
Helpers freezing member's accounts - didn't work

The thing that would complicate the site the most would be to have a report to forum helper button. So you see a post that you think is something a helper can deal with so you report it to them, they decide it's outside of their remit so they then have to report it to the mods, how is that an enhancement?

There's a good guide in the punting wiki detailing what a helper can and is expected to do, it also shows what mods can do. -  External Link/Members Only

The basic system we have now works and works very well, Nothing wrong with putting forward or introducing new ideas as with the' like' button, but the emphasis being on new.

If a member reports a post any one of either the owner, admin or mods can take whatever action is needed, it doesn't need to be passed on. If a member reports a thread in the wrong region but when a mod looks a helper has already moved it so what? the mod has only wasted a few seconds, it really doesn't matter enough to develop a system to avoid it. The helpers do a sterling job of keeping the place tidy BTW.

I think there has been a big improvement in how the site is run over the last few years and I am really pleased with the more helpful and welcoming approach to those that start posting.  I do not feel as a helper that we need more information or a distinct forum to discuss.

I have seen a new trend in members challenging others who have not contributed as much as the member thinks they should - the new part (to me) being accusations that the number of reviews is too low.  In the past only those with no reviews tended to be challenged.  Sorry I cannot remember the specific threads but it was people with 6 and 10 reviews.  To my mind anyone who has posted any reviews has stepped over that contributing line and should be encouraged.  I have a reasonable number of reviews but would never belittle some one with say less than 10.

[daviemac]

I think there has been a big improvement in how the site is run over the last few years and I am really pleased with the more helpful and welcoming approach to those that start posting.  I do not feel as a helper that we need more information or a distinct forum to discuss.

I have seen a new trend in members challenging others who have not contributed as much as the member thinks they should - the new part (to me) being accusations that the number of reviews is too low.  In the past only those with no reviews tended to be challenged.  Sorry I cannot remember the specific threads but it was people with 6 and 10 reviews.  To my mind anyone who has posted any reviews has stepped over that contributing line and should be encouraged.  I have a reasonable number of reviews but would never belittle some one with say less than 10.

It's the trend of members challenging other members that we are trying to get away from, there's too many unknown variables to be challenging others about their contributions, more so now with the added difference in the registered date and the date the account is verified which could be months apart. In fact the new 'wannabe mods' addition to rule #32 was brought in to combat that.

If anyone has an issue with another's contribution report it and the mods will look at their post history, look to see if they've had any posts deleted in the past, look to see how often they've logged on to use the site and check, either privately or publicly, if they have a reason for a lack of reviews. The results of those checks determine what action needs to be taken, if any.   

[LLPunting]

It's the trend of members challenging other members that we are trying to get away from, there's too many unknown variables to be challenging others about their contributions, more so now with the added difference in the registered date and the date the account is verified which could be months apart. In fact the new 'wannabe mods' addition to rule #32 was brought in to combat that.

If anyone has an issue with another's contribution report it and the mods will look at their post history, look to see if they've had any posts deleted in the past, look to see how often they've logged on to use the site and check, either privately or publicly, if they have a reason for a lack of reviews. The results of those checks determine what action needs to be taken, if any.

DM, is the "Date Verified" something only Mods can see?  Does this mean the date the member paid their subscription, i.e. have full access to viewing the site and can then submit posts and reviews?
If these dates are as Head1 and I discussed a little while back then I take it "Registration Date" only tells us when a person filled in the registration details, so if they don't then pay the account is on hold (name reserved) but they can only use the site as a Guest?

[daviemac]

DM, is the "Date Verified" something only Mods can see?  Does this mean the date the member paid their subscription, i.e. have full access to viewing the site and can then submit posts and reviews?
If these dates are as Head1 and I discussed a little while back then I take it "Registration Date" only tells us when a person filled in the registration details, so if they don't then pay the account is on hold (name reserved) but they can only use the site as a Guest?

Yes that's correct, members look at the profile and see the date the person registered but that doesn't mean they had full access to the site from that point, only when paid does it become verified and they are able to post.   

[PilotMan]

So how would you prevent that then? If this is to be some kind of discussion group about the future development of the site, then unless you produce minutes available to be viewed by the membership (ludicrous suggestion) it will be a 'secret society'. As I mentioned earlier (and which you either ignored or didn't challenge) it is also elitist in that it implies that one group of people (in this case forum helpers) are best placed to form that discussion. That does not mean they are not valued in the role they carry out and which, as a side note, has been enhanced since the dead wood was cut out by Head1 (including myself)

As I also mentioned, only the owner will decide how they see their forum developing. Those decisions are best placed on information gathered by the owner, from studying the whole forum including the data. There is much data available that we as members cannot see.

It's a tough one Doc, I really don't know the answer.

In and of itself a closed board implies some sort of elitism, irrespective of the members of the board acting that way or not. I don't know the way around this, or even if there is a way around it.

I'm just thinking along the lines of a place where ideas can be exchanged without it necessarily getting clogged up by all and sundry, and "unhelpful / pointless" comments from members who are infrequent visitors. Which then lays itself open to the challenge of members who are helpers, but aren't necessarily that active (or helpful  ) and excluding members who are active and contribute significantly, but wouldn't have a voice because they aren't a helper.

I'm sure some members must be on other interest forums where things like this have cropped up, please place your comments in the suggestion box  .

And just to be clear, even though I've already said this. I'm not suggesting any other powers are assigned to helpers or any special inside information or access to deleted posts etc etc etc.

[akauya]

It's a tough one Doc, I really don't know the answer.

In and of itself a closed board implies some sort of elitism, irrespective of the members of the board acting that way or not. I don't know the way around this, or even if there is a way around it.

I'm just thinking along the lines of a place where ideas can be exchanged without it necessarily getting clogged up by all and sundry, and "unhelpful / pointless" comments from members who are infrequent visitors. Which then lays itself open to the challenge of members who are helpers, but aren't necessarily that active (or helpful  ) and excluding members who are active and contribute significantly, but wouldn't have a voice because they aren't a helper.

I'm sure some members must be on other interest forums where things like this have cropped up, please place your comments in the suggestion box  .

And just to be clear, even though I've already said this. I'm not suggesting any other powers are assigned to helpers or any special inside information or access to deleted posts etc etc etc.

In other groups I'm involved with (not punting related) we have some read-only boards that only specific members (who carry out tasks to help the group) can post. This is to give full transparency of the discussions taking place. If any other member wishes to join the read-only board to contribute they can do so only after they have been "vetted" by the owners/mods etc. and proved they can add usefulness to the running oft he forum.

Not entirely sure that would work here given the subject matter of this forum (and especially when dealing with issues such troublemakers due to be banned, etc.) but thought I'd mention it.

[PilotMan]

In other groups I'm involved with (not punting related) we have some read-only boards that only specific members (who carry out tasks to help the group) can post. This is to give full transparency of the discussions taking place. If any other member wishes to join the read-only board to contribute they can do so only after they have been "vetted" by the owners/mods etc. and proved they can add usefulness to the running oft he forum.

Not entirely sure that would work here given the subject matter of this forum (and especially when dealing with issues such troublemakers due to be banned, etc.) but thought I'd mention it.

A read only board shouldn't get too untidy, whilst giving transparency to all members.

I don't see it as being a place for discussion about banning and misdemeanours, the Mods deal with that adequately now.

[toon972]

If there is a secret dialogue section, so be it. It can only be beneficial to us all to get everyone on the same page. It makes no difference to me at all in the way I punt.