Travel rip-offs

[King Nuts]

Travel's been tricky enough in recent times, what with all the malarkey with airport check-in and Channel ferry queues, and while I can understand travel companies and airlines wanting to claw some money back after a couple of years of the pandemic, I am struggling to be OK with some of the recent ripoffs I have personally been on the receiving end of.

Examples: Bristol airport charging close to 150 quid to park in their longterm car park for six days/five nights. I've paid less for five nights' hotel accommodation in some parts of the world. Their car park is badly laid out, no clear markings, gravel everywhere, and negligible signage, so clearly they don't bother to make it a reasonably ok experience. Inside the airport, outrageous prices for just about anything you want to eat or drink. Check-in is self-serve, as are some of the concessions. Fucking Duty Free is self-serve too, but of course half the damn machines don't work so there's a massive queue.

The entire process of passing through the airport was utterly miserable. A couple of drinks and snacks for my kids, and some other odds and sods and I'm suddenly close to a hundred quid lighter. But why does it need to be so fucking awful and such a ripoff? Didn't used to be this bad.

Doesn't end there though. I get home and realise that my bank has stuck me for 2.75 per cent 'currency' charge for every debit card transaction I made abroad. And that's on top of the rubbish exchange rate they offer.

Bollocks to it. If I don't travel so much from now on, I'm ok with that. It's nothing like as much fun as it used to be, and I've been to most places I want to go to, some of them dozens of times.





 

[mr.bluesky]

It could be down to the fact that the aviation industry was badly hit by the covid pandemic and are now trying to re coup some of the lost cash. Mind you airports have always been a rip off for many years especially parking fees and the pandemic is still being used as an excuse today blaming it for staff shortages now. You just can't win 

[lillythesavage]

It could be down to the fact that the aviation industry was badly hit by the covid pandemic and are now trying to re coup some of the lost cash. Mind you airports have always been a rip off for many years especially parking fees and the pandemic is still being used as an excuse today blaming it for staff shortages now. You just can't win 

All part of the bigger plan to make you leave the car at home  , TBF transport links to airports are fairly good, well to those London ones that do not have a London Postcode    Gatwick may be an exception, and Southend come to think of it, ok Stansted, Luton and Heathrow. 

[timsussex]

Just like punting you need to do your homework to reduce the rip-offs  - You cant ever stop them all of course

1) get a 0% credit (Halifax Clarity) or debit card (Chase)
2) you cant take liquids over 100ml through security but you can get water for free (use one of those Robinsons concentrate for the kids)
3) Look at the parking comparison sites
4) get a credit card that gives you Lounge access

Lots of advice on various sites so not clutter up UKP and you can save lots with a bit of planning

[myothernameis]

Airport currency exchange, is a complete rip of, and dont know how they get away with this, or even survive

To change €150 into pounds, you will get back roughly £95, based on a exchange rate of €1.50, minus fees

If you want to change £100 into euros, you get around €95, based on a exchange rate of €0.95

Even now the atm machines are rigged, and if you use a Euro-cash card, and could withdraw euro directly, that no longer works.  The atm converts your euros into sterling, and then applies there exchange rate, and £5 fee.   So if asking for €500, this will cost you around £530, even though your card is loaded with euros

[Marmalade]

Understandable gripes, but also understandable clawing by the companies involved. I think one maybe has to bite the bullet or adapt.

Get public transport or taxi to the airport. Take some snacks with you for pre-flight and during. You can take a bottle of water and refill it after security. Don’t check in luggage — use pockets. Take cash, with cards only as a back-up, and don’t change money at the airport except for any small, essential amounts. Pre-plan security so you can unbag items quickly and sort the usuals while still in the queue. Same for passport-control, have all documents to hand. Keep a list handy of your PNR, flight numbers & times, phone numbers for emergencies. For the super-cautious, take a photo of any checked-in luggage and keep the receipt, and make your luggage easily distinguishable from 700 other black suitcases. Be nice to airport staff — when most folks are bitching at them, they might be nicer to you. If seat choices are economical, use SeatGuru or get a seat near the front do you can get off first. Use fast-track if it’s economical and depending on the airline, anything to save frustration.

These are simple things, mostly free. Other stuff is often a trade-off (do you want to save money flying Ryanair only for them to blast you for two hours to buy crisps or bingo tickets? with EasyJet’s cancellation rate, how lucky do you feel? — but bear in mind cancelled are still a tiny proportion). Check the news for chaos airports — if you have a choice, avoid those with frequently reported luggage mountains. Arrive super-early for your flight and be among the first to check in instead of standing for hours. Get to know the airports you’ll use, plenty of online guides available — so you know where you can relax air-side. For long layovers (but too short to go sight-seeing), consider spending all that money you’ve saved on a pay-as-you-go VIP lounge. At least your food and a few drinks will be free, possibly more.

And don’t forget you’re doing this to enjoy it!

[lillythesavage]

Understandable gripes, but also understandable clawing by the companies involved. I think one maybe has to bite the bullet or adapt.

Get public transport or taxi to the airport. Take some snacks with you for pre-flight and during. You can take a bottle of water and refill it after security. Don’t check in luggage — use pockets. Take cash, with cards only as a back-up, and don’t change money at the airport except for any small, essential amounts. Pre-plan security so you can unbag items quickly and sort the usuals while still in the queue. Same for passport-control, have all documents to hand. Keep a list handy of your PNR, flight numbers & times, phone numbers for emergencies. For the super-cautious, take a photo of any checked-in luggage and keep the receipt, and make your luggage easily distinguishable from 700 other black suitcases. Be nice to airport staff — when most folks are bitching at them, they might be nicer to you. If seat choices are economical, use SeatGuru or get a seat near the front do you can get off first. Use fast-track if it’s economical and depending on the airline, anything to save frustration.

These are simple things, mostly free. Other stuff is often a trade-off (do you want to save money flying Ryanair only for them to blast you for two hours to buy crisps or bingo tickets? with EasyJet’s cancellation rate, how lucky do you feel? — but bear in mind cancelled are still a tiny proportion). Check the news for chaos airports — if you have a choice, avoid those with frequently reported luggage mountains. Arrive super-early for your flight and be among the first to check in instead of standing for hours. Get to know the airports you’ll use, plenty of online guides available — so you know where you can relax air-side. For long layovers (but too short to go sight-seeing), consider spending all that money you’ve saved on a pay-as-you-go VIP lounge. At least your food and a few drinks will be free, possibly more.

And don’t forget you’re doing this to enjoy it!

Ryanair have stopped the hard sell and bingo tickets thankfully, you can pre order by app if you wish,  but only a refreshment trolley and duty free which you can easily ignore. No worse than most on that front now.

Great value still though, flew to Kerry, no other choice, for 72 quid return, including 10kg case and return London bus ticket, quite short notice too. The return fair with no extras and a ruck sack was just over 30 quid, peanuts for a route only they fly.
Would do nearly that in fuel driving to the airport, with the 14 quid to drop and pick up.

A friend decided to come with me at very short notice, expected to get whacked, but it was only 2 quid more.

[lamboman]

Just like punting you need to do your homework to reduce the rip-offs  - You cant ever stop them all of course

1) get a 0% credit (Halifax Clarity) or debit card (Chase)
2) you cant take liquids over 100ml through security but you can get water for free (use one of those Robinsons concentrate for the kids)
3) Look at the parking comparison sites
4) get a credit card that gives you Lounge access

Lots of advice on various sites so not clutter up UKP and you can save lots with a bit of planning

Exactly I'm not sure what the OP is on about he could have avoided all of his gripes with a bit of thought.

[Marmalade]

no other choice

still being the operative phrase.
So nice to hear they’ve run out of bingo cards. I’ll still take ear plugs and noise-cancelling headphones if I find I have travel with them. And maybe a sleeping pill to take the edge off their customer relations. 

If Qatar for instance offered that route at the same price a person would be crazy not to take it. People fly Ryanair when there’s no other (equally affordable) choice.

[Marmalade]

Exactly I'm not sure what the OP is on about he could have avoided all of his gripes with a bit of thought.

True, but one of the things about travel, especially last minute, is that there’s so much to do that research takes a back seat. Which is why I tried to add some helpful tips. 

[lillythesavage]

still being the operative phrase.
So nice to hear they’ve run out of bingo cards. I’ll still take ear plugs and noise-cancelling headphones if I find I have travel with them. And maybe a sleeping pill to take the edge off their customer relations. 

If Qatar for instance offered that route at the same price a person would be crazy not to take it. People fly Ryanair when there’s no other (equally affordable) choice.

I would not fly them for more than an hour or so, Ireland is a no brainer, but this time the tannoy was left alone except start and finish, just a gentle ask when the trolley passed, no worse than the others.

Been more reliable than most, they did not lay off staff.

[Markus]

If you do go overseas again get a Starling card.  Very good exchange rate when I was in Europe and Africa and they don’t charge for any currency conversion charges.  Just be sure to pay in the local currency when using the card machine at a restaurant.  It has saved me a lot of money and been an absolute god send. Worked every time and the app is great, it even has google maps so you know where you ate and an explanation of the rate you paid.  Plus every time your card is swiped, you get an instant notification of the cost in pounds.

Starling used it as a way to get new customers(which worked) and are able to sustain it by being an online only bank and offering their customers additional products like loans etc.

Airports are a rip off, none more so than Heathrow.  The problem is that they are bustling with people wanting to get away for the summer holidays so have no incentive to drop any of their absolutely scandalous prices.  That being said, Dubai isn’t any better.  14 Dhirams for a bottle of water ie £3.   

I always used to explain to my overseas friends that one of the best things about the U.K is that you could get away for a weekend to a European city for a relatively cheap cost even through British Airways. Even if you get a cheap ticket in off season,  the additional costs all add up to make it a costly affair.

[petermisc]

Travel's been tricky enough in recent times, what with all the malarkey with airport check-in and Channel ferry queues, and while I can understand travel companies and airlines wanting to claw some money back after a couple of years of the pandemic, I am struggling to be OK with some of the recent ripoffs I have personally been on the receiving end of.
Bollocks to it. If I don't travel so much from now on, I'm ok with that. It's nothing like as much fun as it used to be, and I've been to most places I want to go to, some of them dozens of times.

The examples you quote have been fairly standard at just about every airport I have used for a very long time.  Unless Bristol was an exception, this is nothing new.  I suspect that after a long break, people are looking at things like flying with fresh eyes.  The rip-off charges, hideous queuing, etc. were always part of the experience, but were taken for granted.  My recent flying experiences were actually better then pre-pandemic, with significantly less time spent in queues, at Birmingham in particular.

The airports get a significant proportion of their income from the concessions, who have to recoup that from their customers.  I avoid buying or paying for anything at an airport if possible.  Get your currency beforehand, and go ready-armed with reading matter and drinks/snacks.

It helps if you know the airport layout beforehand, and what is available before and after the security screening.  Some foreign airports have a large supermarket attached, which is cheaper than the duty-frees.  Nothing similar in any UK airport I know, but Birmingham does have a Spar.

[lewisjones23]

refusing to go anywhere until the chaos in airports clears up

I havent got the patience for it all, I’d end up getting arrested before even leaving the UK

[petermisc]

refusing to go anywhere until the chaos in airports clears up
I havent got the patience for it all, I’d end up getting arrested before even leaving the UK

In which case, you are probably never going anywhere.  Airports have generally always been pretty chaotic, with massive queues for security and passport control, short-notice flight delays and cancellations, and the like due to costs and turn-rounds being pared to the bone.

Provided that you avoid those carriers who over-promised (Tui, BA, Easyjet etc) then things are probably better now than they were pre-pandemic, with less people flying.  Even with those carriers, I suspect that now that they have cut back on their flights, things are getting back to normal levels of chaos.

However, it is likely that as the cost of living crisis bites, the number of industrial disputes affecting flights here and abroad will escalate.

[King Nuts]

Understandable gripes, but also understandable clawing by the companies involved. I think one maybe has to bite the bullet or adapt.

Get public transport or taxi to the airport. Take some snacks with you for pre-flight and during. You can take a bottle of water and refill it after security. Don’t check in luggage — use pockets. Take cash, with cards only as a back-up, and don’t change money at the airport except for any small, essential amounts. Pre-plan security so you can unbag items quickly and sort the usuals while still in the queue. Same for passport-control, have all documents to hand. Keep a list handy of your PNR, flight numbers & times, phone numbers for emergencies. For the super-cautious, take a photo of any checked-in luggage and keep the receipt, and make your luggage easily distinguishable from 700 other black suitcases. Be nice to airport staff — when most folks are bitching at them, they might be nicer to you. If seat choices are economical, use SeatGuru or get a seat near the front do you can get off first. Use fast-track if it’s economical and depending on the airline, anything to save frustration.

These are simple things, mostly free. Other stuff is often a trade-off (do you want to save money flying Ryanair only for them to blast you for two hours to buy crisps or bingo tickets? with EasyJet’s cancellation rate, how lucky do you feel? — but bear in mind cancelled are still a tiny proportion). Check the news for chaos airports — if you have a choice, avoid those with frequently reported luggage mountains. Arrive super-early for your flight and be among the first to check in instead of standing for hours. Get to know the airports you’ll use, plenty of online guides available — so you know where you can relax air-side. For long layovers (but too short to go sight-seeing), consider spending all that money you’ve saved on a pay-as-you-go VIP lounge. At least your food and a few drinks will be free, possibly more.

And don’t forget you’re doing this to enjoy it!

All good points and I observe nearly all of them when and where I can. I haven't flown as frequently as George Clooney in 'Up In The Air' but have done a lot of travelling in my life so am wise to most of the pitfalls. It's just that there are more pitfalls these days than there used to be, and more ripoffs.

I flew a lot pre 2001 and was in and out of LHR at least two or three times a month, mainly on European and domestic routes, and security aside, I just don't recall it being as arduous as it is now. Parking was never particularly outrageous, and even cabs to and from where I lived in London at the time, weren't THAT much of a ripoff.

There's no question in my mind that airports, all of them, have realised they can now gouge passengers to the extent that they do, and get away with it. The 5 quid drop-off charge that they stick all arriving drivers with now, as the final fucking insult. And whatever intra-Britain and European travel I need to do now, I go by train whenever possible.

[King Nuts]

Exactly I'm not sure what the OP is on about he could have avoided all of his gripes with a bit of thought.

 
I thought I was pretty clear, so maybe you can read the post again.

On this particular occasion, I was travelling with two of my kids. If you travel with kids, you'll know that they inevitably slow you down and cost you money.

Further, getting to this airport by public transport or taxi was out of the question.

On my own, I'd have avoided buying anything at all at the damn airport. I never do. I time it so that I spend the minimum amount of time at any airport I use, and make use of a lounge whenever the option is there. It wasn't, on this occasion,

And as regards the card use, I was referring to stuff bought while I was abroad, not in the airport.

[catweazle]

In May I flew from Manchester 》》Dubai (and onward   but that bits irrelevant).

I prebooked:
Meet and greet car park

Fast track security

Lounge access.

Arrived at Manchester. Easy to find M&G entrance. Entry scans and photographs the car. Friendly  helpful staff there.

Into the terminal.  Queue for Emirates desk, but got to the desk in 30 minutes.

Fast track said "closed". Showed my booking details   they lifted the barrier and let me through.

Airside: found the lounge. They were turning away "walk in" hopefuls  but showed my booking and was in.

Sat with a beer in the lounge, checked the time: 57 minutes from driving into the M&G carpark.

£114 for 12 days parking a minute from the terminal.
£4 for fast track.
£32 lounge.

I use a virgin money "B" Mastercard. No fees on converting foreign currency for overseas expenditure , and an exchange rate comparable to the general market  rates.

[anyfucker]

One scam that has caught many out is the meet and greet parking by third party firms.
There are cases where the car was just left in the short term car park and the owner handed a bill for hundreds.
Others report damaged cars, big mileage increases or even never seeing their cars again.

[catweazle]

One scam that has caught many out is the meet and greet parking by third party firms.
There are cases where the car was just left in the short term car park and the owner handed a bill for hundreds.
Others report damaged cars, big mileage increases or even never seeing their cars again.

Just for clarity,  I used the official Manchester airport  meet and greet Park  literally right outside T1, and with its own exit off the roundabout .

[King Nuts]

One scam that has caught many out is the meet and greet parking by third party firms.
There are cases where the car was just left in the short term car park and the owner handed a bill for hundreds.
Others report damaged cars, big mileage increases or even never seeing their cars again.

I've used those twice in the past, once at Heathrow and once at Gatwick. In each instance, the drop off was easy enough but collecting my car took an age. Massive queues and just not worth the hassle.

[Marmalade]

All good points and I observe nearly all of them when and where I can. I haven't flown as frequently as George Clooney in 'Up In The Air' but have done a lot of travelling in my life so am wise to most of the pitfalls.

That was a good movie. There's one tip I always remember from it: avoid the queues that have families (if you can) as they nearly always take ages. It can also go for certain nationalities that have a) only a middling grasp of English and b) an enormous grasp of nitpicking and endless querying/chat.

Experienced travellers tend to be very organised – it comes with practice; but some mortals arrive with barely their flight documents & passports in order, mountains of luggage secured with bits of cloth, and aan utter ignorance of any applicable rules and regulations.

Enjoy 

[Marmalade]

One scam that has caught many out is the meet and greet parking by third party firms.

certain 'developing' countries have developed meet & greet to a high degree...

They may 'help' you with your bags the other side of x-ray before you yourself are cleared. Or get you to the front of the queue but expect baksheesh.
In such circumstances there are two sensible options. (1) make a lot of fucking noise so everyone hears you asserting your rights; (2) invisible exchange of small denominations (to a minimal limit, and for genuine 'favours'). Naturally don't use (2) in countries where it can land you in trouble!

[lillythesavage]

certain 'developing' countries have developed meet & greet to a high degree...

They may 'help' you with your bags the other side of x-ray before you yourself are cleared. Or get you to the front of the queue but expect baksheesh.
In such circumstances there are two sensible options. (1) make a lot of fucking noise so everyone hears you asserting your rights; (2) invisible exchange of small denominations (to a minimal limit, and for genuine 'favours'). Naturally don't use (2) in countries where it can land you in trouble!

Mexico was a good one  , Cold beer on the transfer bus, I was in the mood after the flight, they even stopped at a shop to buy more, then handed me the bill on arrival 

Went into a restaurant with another couple, guy appears with a camera, says " I like to take a picture for the wall. " "help yourself" I replied.
The food took ages, but first a half bottle of clear liquid is plonked on the table, with our picture attached on the label  . Still no food until 10 dollars was paid  . Fucked off and got street food.

Walked past a shop, the 10 year old looks at a parrot outside, guy appears " says " want a picture with the parrot, no charge" Mum takes a picture with her phone, turns and walks off, Pedro in hot pursuit, " i said no charge but I expect a tip ".

Worse than India, at that is saying something, a young couple at the resort got mugged for 300 quid for a short ride, called plod, " did you ask the fare before getting in"   "No" they reply. Guess what plod said?

What a fucking shit hole, Resort was great, leaving it was like having a target on your back.

[timsussex]

Several years ago in India took a taxi from airport to very nearby hotel Made sure that Taxi was on the meter which showed about 125 rupees (rate was different then) as we pulled into the hotel grounds  but before he stopped he reached over and switched the meter off When we got out he asked for 500. As wife argued I called the hotel receptionist who very politely asked me for a 100 rupee note. He then went over to the taxi driver unleashed a stream of presumably the local equivalent of 4 letter words to the Taxi driver and literally threw the money at him picked up our bags and escorted us to the checkin desk

[lewisjones23]

Several years ago in India took a taxi from airport to very nearby hotel Made sure that Taxi was on the meter which showed about 125 rupees (rate was different then) as we pulled into the hotel grounds  but before he stopped he reached over and switched the meter off When we got out he asked for 500. As wife argued I called the hotel receptionist who very politely asked me for a 100 rupee note. He then went over to the taxi driver unleashed a stream of presumably the local equivalent of 4 letter words to the Taxi driver and literally threw the money at him picked up our bags and escorted us to the checkin desk

all these type of shithole countries just see rich westerners that are ripe for a scam

the carry on the last time I went to Egypt was enough to put me off ever going again

[Marmalade]

Several years ago in India took a taxi from airport to very nearby hotel Made sure that Taxi was on the meter which showed about 125 rupees (rate was different then) as we pulled into the hotel grounds  but before he stopped he reached over and switched the meter off When we got out he asked for 500. As wife argued I called the hotel receptionist who very politely asked me for a 100 rupee note. He then went over to the taxi driver unleashed a stream of presumably the local equivalent of 4 letter words to the Taxi driver and literally threw the money at him picked up our bags and escorted us to the checkin desk

This is a very good thing to do. I have had this in numerous countries.

India is quite sophisticated on transport scams. A taxi will stop 'as a courtesy' just to let you see a 'tourist attraction' which is his associate selling carpets or some such thing.
After taking you a roundabout way he may stop near several other taxis and, when you decline to pay his suddeny inflated fee, you will be surrounded in a 'threatening' looking manner.
What I do is assert a British sense of righteousness (colonial or not) and express what is fair and true in a very loud voice. They will get the message.
I avoid this in Thailand where the opposite I find to be true. Raising your voice in Thailand is looked down like you are a fucking idiot. Just agree fares in advance very very clearly. No problemo.

If you hire a driver in India, bear in mind you might have to get 'bossy' if he starts acting like a fucking prick. So I'm not keen on drivers that look like brick shit-houses.

Another common 'scam' in India and several other Eastern countries, though inconvenient more than harmful, is the "nearly full bus scam". You see a handy looking bus (near the airport or some other tourist-frequented place). It is apparently going where you want to go 'when it is full' and as there are only one or two seats left it looks like a good bet. Except when you sit down, before it leaves, someone else gets off. So the wait for it to become 'full' can be considerable. Always agree the fare but pay at the end if at all possible.

There are also countries though where the 'nearly full' thing is genuine: usually a private operator who needs a full bus/van/pick-up truck to make it viable. And if it's busy it usually won't take that long.

India's been mentioned several times; but do remember that there are also decent honest Indians who will go far more than the extra mile for you, far more probably than any other nationality. It just takes a while to tell the difference.

[lillythesavage]

Several years ago in India took a taxi from airport to very nearby hotel Made sure that Taxi was on the meter which showed about 125 rupees (rate was different then) as we pulled into the hotel grounds  but before he stopped he reached over and switched the meter off When we got out he asked for 500. As wife argued I called the hotel receptionist who very politely asked me for a 100 rupee note. He then went over to the taxi driver unleashed a stream of presumably the local equivalent of 4 letter words to the Taxi driver and literally threw the money at him picked up our bags and escorted us to the checkin desk

India takes some getting used too, mainly taxi drivers though, the case grabbers are easy to deal with, and always trying to exchange pound a 2 pound coins at the airport departures.
Love going shopping though, bartering is fun. Do it here too, popped into Clarks for boots recently, found a pair reduced to half price, just what I wanted, got another 15% off 
Went to buy a suit, got it well down, about 30% but could not decide on the one I wanted, so said if I buy 2 I want the other half the discounted price, got it, looked at the receipt when I got home, i had bought a suit and a shirt  .

[Marmalade]

all these type of shithole countries just see rich westerners that are ripe for a scam

the carry on the last time I went to Egypt was enough to put me off ever going again

Ditto what I said for India. I've met truly remarkable people in both places. Scamming by poor people, not all but quite a lot, is part of the culture, and not always just poor people. What's a comparison? I don't know -- racing a red light? jumping a Tube turnstile? or just selling double-glazing (or WG 'services') at an inflated price because the customer 'can afford to pay'?

There are lots of petty scams that we would just roll our eyes at or make a derogatory remark. If we want to travel, it's best I believe to understand the local culture (including scams), and avoid/swerve them rather than get angry about them or tarnish the whole populace with the same brush.

[King Nuts]

Ditto what I said for India. I've met truly remarkable people in both places. Scamming by poor people, not all but quite a lot, is part of the culture, and not always just poor people. What's a comparison? I don't know -- racing a red light? jumping a Tube turnstile? or just selling double-glazing (or WG 'services') at an inflated price because the customer 'can afford to pay'?

There are lots of petty scams that we would just roll our eyes at or make a derogatory remark. If we want to travel, it's best I believe to understand the local culture (including scams), and avoid/swerve them rather than get angry about them or tarnish the whole populace with the same brush.

I wouldn't equate, for instance, the scamming/bartering (it's a fine line) I've experienced in Morocco with jumping a red light. It just gets exhausting after a while when nothing has a price tag on it, so a simple purchase of something like a bar of soap turns into a major deal.

And cabs, or the ones I got into in Marrakech, didn't have any meters in them, so that was a barter, just to go a mile or two.

Talking of cabs, I like to think I am reasonably streetwise and I don't believe I've ever truly been scammed by a cab driver, but I WAS once in Bucharest. The cab was 'official' and had a meter. But the fare was at a London-black-cab level, i.e. something like 15 quid to go a couple of miles. I discovered afterwards that they have two meters - one for foreigners and another for locals.

I know Uber does surge pricing, but at least that applies to everyone who wants an Uber at that moment and at that location.

[Marmalade]

I wouldn't equate, for instance, the scamming/bartering (it's a fine line) I've experienced in Morocco with jumping a red light. It just gets exhausting after a while when nothing has a price tag on it, so a simple purchase of something like a bar of soap turns into a major deal.

And cabs, or the ones I got into in Marrakech, didn't have any meters in them, so that was a barter, just to go a mile or two.

I didn't have problems with taxis in Marrakech but agree that bartering can be tiring until one has an idea what the "correct" price is. I don't know the place that well, but on my first trip found I was only buying things I really really wanted and would decide what it was worth to me before bartering. I think it's just as unkind to offer too much as to offer too little.

[lillythesavage]

I didn't have problems with taxis in Marrakech but agree that bartering can be tiring until one has an idea what the "correct" price is. I don't know the place that well, but on my first trip found I was only buying things I really really wanted and would decide what it was worth to me before bartering. I think it's just as unkind to offer too much as to offer too little.

That is the answer to bartering, you see something you want to buy and decide the price you are willing to pay, bartering for things you do not really want is pointless, that is when a firm not interested is required.

Corruption in these countries can work for you too, if you make friends with locals, after packing from 6 weeks in Goa, I was seriously in trouble, including a 3x3 wooden coffee table, god knows how many heavy stone carved elephants, clothes and shoes made there and that was just me, the wife had just as much.

I met the brothers for breakfast in their hotel restaurant, mentioned my problem, and was told it is not a problem, nothing more.

Arriving at the weigh in, the face behind the desk lit up, this was going to pay nicely one way or the other, soon wiped when a supervisor walking behind whispered, there was no problem.

[Marmalade]

I find India easier that Marrakech as the main cities are so much bigger. It means you can look around and compare. Also, in India, in the big cities it is not too hard to find a friendly person, even a member of staff at the hotel, who can give you an idea what to pay. Bear in mind there are two prices generally, one for Indians and one for everybody else, and that is not as unfair as it sounds: but it's nice to have an idea what a decent 'everybody else' price is! For India or Egypt it might be a friendly shopkeeper who enjoys your conmpany and the chance to talk English over a cup of tea rather than try to sell you something.

[lillythesavage]

I find India easier that Marrakech as the main cities are so much bigger. It means you can look around and compare. Also, in India, in the big cities it is not too hard to find a friendly person, even a member of staff at the hotel, who can give you an idea what to pay. Bear in mind there are two prices generally, one for Indians and one for everybody else, and that is not as unfair as it sounds: but it's nice to have an idea what a decent 'everybody else' price is! For India or Egypt it might be a friendly shopkeeper who enjoys your conmpany and the chance to talk English over a cup of tea rather than try to sell you something.

The waiters in said restaurant were good lads, one night I offered to take them eating and drinking after work as I knew they always did.

They chose the place, I had been there before, 7 of us for nearly 5 hours drinking and eating, including 2 bottles of Brandy.

 Based on what I had previously paid for a meal for two and a few drinks, was expecting at least 50 to 100 quid, a tenner including tip covered it  . About the same as I tipped them usually.

Found the same in Portugal too, but in Thailand it seems to be a regulars discount rather than different rates.

[RedKettle]

 If you travel with kids, you'll know that they inevitably slow you down and cost you money.

So true! Even a 2 hour journey by car becomes almost 3 hours and involves a Starbucks or similar. And mine are apparently adults.

[lillythesavage]

So true! Even a 2 hour journey by car becomes almost 3 hours and involves a Starbucks or similar. And mine are apparently adults.

I could not even imagine what a long journey with small kids would be like in an EV,  ,

[Watts.E.Dunn]

!!Are we nearley there yet!!

to the charging station as range anxiently worsens wioth every passed mile!

[RadioKid]

It's not so bad in other countries mate. If you do a fair bit of travelling, you'll realise it's just the UK that's shit.

These major companies cut corners to maximise profit down to the last penny. Same with energy companies. It's a sub-par and expensive service, yet the CEO's always annohnce record profits.

[lillythesavage]

!!Are we nearley there yet!!

to the charging station as range anxiently worsens wioth every passed mile!

Yep, and the weight of the wife and kids reducing the range, then keeping them occupied while you wait for the charge, if there is not a queue for it, airport prices at the service area shops, stuff of nightmares .

[Marmalade]

It's not so bad in other countries mate. If you do a fair bit of travelling, you'll realise it's just the UK that's shit.

These major companies cut corners to maximise profit down to the last penny. Same with energy companies. It's a sub-par and expensive service, yet the CEO's always annohnce record profits.

Singapore charges you if you try to nip across the border to Johu Baru to fill up on the cheap.
But Singaporeans ask why would you want to go there anyway?
They are eternally patriotic.
The English could boast Shakespeare, philosophy, the virtues of traditional English manners. They used to just grumble in a convivial manner about the weather, a gentleman making conversation that the upper classes understand to be nonsense anyway. Now they grumble about everything (and mean it). Happiness is remembering some quirky football match long forgotten by everybody else, before complaining about something else.

In Scotland we dared to be proud of JK Rowling. But the trans lobby decided that bordered on ‘hate speech’. So we’ll go back to entertaining you with tales of haggis hunting, the screech of an instrument no right-minded person voluntarily listens to, and hope you get happily pissed enough on our cheap export whisky to think it’s funny. 

Sing us a song of the peaceful rolling hills of England.
Of British Airways hostesses in short skirts.
Of people walking down Bond Street in a top hat.
Of Indian curry dishes that were invented in Brum.
And girls on the beach eating ice-cream cones and winking!

 

[King Nuts]

It's not so bad in other countries mate. If you do a fair bit of travelling, you'll realise it's just the UK that's shit.

Depends on what you mean by 'travelling'. I've travelled all over the UK by car, for instance, and can tell you it's infinitely better and easier than it used to be. Cars are much more reliable. I haven't had a breakdown since the 80s. Motorway service stations are more frequent and offer much more choice.

Try driving long distance in France. Their autoroutes have tolls, often they're just two lanes on each carriageway, and the service stations are still stuck in the 70s, or some of them are. And most of their drivers are nutters.

Likewise train travel, with some exceptions, is noticeably better than it ever was. The pandemic was an excuse to cut services (schedules as well as catering) but it's mostly all fallen back into place now. The notion that Euro train travel is always superb is mostly a myth. Their reliability is no better than ours, in my experience.

[lillythesavage]

Depends on what you mean by 'travelling'. I've travelled all over the UK by car, for instance, and can tell you it's infinitely better and easier than it used to be. Cars are much more reliable. I haven't had a breakdown since the 80s. Motorway service stations are more frequent and offer much more choice.

Try driving long distance in France. Their autoroutes have tolls, often they're just two lanes on each carriageway, and the service stations are still stuck in the 70s, or some of them are. And most of their drivers are nutters.

Likewise train travel, with some exceptions, is noticeably better than it ever was. The pandemic was an excuse to cut services (schedules as well as catering) but it's mostly all fallen back into place now. The notion that Euro train travel is always superb is mostly a myth. Their reliability is no better than ours, in my experience.

Yep travelling around the UK has improved no end, did a lot of rail travel during the pandemic and lockdowns, no catering but very very easy and no crowds. Road travel was a delight, train to Scotland and driving back in a day was a doddle. Except when your brand new Range Rover, picked up with 9 miles recorded, breaks down along the East Coast, with 49 miles recorded 

The major gripe though is how long it takes to get things moving again if it goes wrong, sure if people die there needs to be an investigation, but that can be done from CCTV and photographing the scene properly, but quickly and effectively, we are just not set up to deal with problems quickly. Same with rail and the roads.

The costs to the economy are horrendous.

[southcoastpunter]

Yep travelling around the UK has improved no end,

not down on the central south coast it hasn't. Sure WFH has helped the roads not to be quite so busy as they once were but rail service is still pretty naff. And I had the necessity to try to use bus services a few times in the last month or so.....was sat waiting at the bus stop for the bus and the screen said....10 minutes....6 minutes....3 minutes.....3 mintues....3 minutes.... then it just disappeared off the screen (and no bus appeared) and then next one showing was an hour later!

, we are just not set up to deal with problems quickly.

The costs to the economy are horrendous.

i think its more basic than that...its the attitude from more or less any public service ...... "you lot (the public) can wait! we will be done when we are done!" so many examples of investigations that take 6 or 7 hours....what do they find out in hour 5 or 6 that they couldn't have reasonably found out in the first or second hour.

And the two main roads across the New Forest, east/west (Southampton/M3/M27 towards Bournemouth and Poole - the A35 and A31) had one road completely closed for 3 months (to replace a road bridge - they managed to do a bigger one on a motorway in a weekend)) and major road works on the other!

No co-ordination, leading to major traffic delays, and most cars just sat polluting the atmosphere!

[lillythesavage]

not down on the central south coast it hasn't. Sure WFH has helped the roads not to be quite so busy as they once were but rail service is still pretty naff. And I had the necessity to try to use bus services a few times in the last month or so.....was sat waiting at the bus stop for the bus and the screen said....10 minutes....6 minutes....3 minutes.....3 mintues....3 minutes.... then it just disappeared off the screen (and no bus appeared) and then next one showing was an hour later!

i think its more basic than that...its the attitude from more or less any public service ...... "you lot (the public) can wait! we will be done when we are done!" so many examples of investigations that take 6 or 7 hours....what do they find out in hour 5 or 6 that they couldn't have reasonably found out in the first or second hour.

And the two main roads across the New Forest, east/west (Southampton/M3/M27 towards Bournemouth and Poole - the A35 and A31) had one road completely closed for 3 months (to replace a road bridge - they managed to do a bigger one on a motorway in a weekend)) and major road works on the other!

No co-ordination, leading to major traffic delays, and most cars just sat polluting the atmosphere!

Buses are a whole other story, pay peanuts and all that.

A truck fire shut one of two roads on To Canvey Island for 4 days, for the sake of some tarmac. Ridiculous, In some of Europe and the USA there are recovery trucks all around, first to the job gets paid, you have no choice.

[King Nuts]

Buses are a whole other story, pay peanuts and all that.

A truck fire shut one of two roads on To Canvey Island for 4 days, for the sake of some tarmac. Ridiculous, In some of Europe and the USA there are recovery trucks all around, first to the job gets paid, you have no choice.

I have often wondered why it takes for ever to get road repairs done in this country. I remember the widening of the A40 in Acton, west London, took something like a decade. Maybe longer.

The California earthquake of 1994 took down, amongst other things, part of the I-10 freeway at one of its busiest sections in Los Angeles. I seem to remember reading at the time that the City of LA offered a deal to the contractors, and if they came in ahead of schedule, they'd earn 200k dollars for each day they're ahead, and lose the same amount for each day they over-ran.

Just found a YouTube clip that explains it: External Link/Members Only

A bit of creative dealmaking like that might solve a lot of problems here.

[timsussex]

An even better example of how the Yanks get things done was the damage to the 6 mile long I-10 bridge by Hurricane KAtrina

The eastbound span was missing 38 segments with another 170 misaligned, while the westbound span was missing 26 segments with 265 misaligned.

It took 2 weeks to award a contract and a month later  45 days after Katrina one of the bridges was open

External Link/Members Only

[lillythesavage]

An even better example of how the Yanks get things done was the damage to the 6 mile long I-10 bridge by Hurricane KAtrina

The eastbound span was missing 38 segments with another 170 misaligned, while the westbound span was missing 26 segments with 265 misaligned.

It took 2 weeks to award a contract and a month later  45 days after Katrina one of the bridges was open

External Link/Members Only

It costs money, but chaos costs more, ffs look at the Hammersmith Bridge, not only closed but river traffic banned from going under it for a while. pathetic. just fix it, the cost and pollution from detours is ridiculous, a hell of a lot more than the gains from HS2, a 15 minute quicker train journey will change the life of nobody.

[catweazle]

A few years ago,  the local paper  covertly followed a road mending gang for a day.

They arrived in their truck at 8.30. Sat around, reading the paper. Got out , did a bit, then at 9.30 piled into the truck and went to Greggs.  And so it went on.

The paper  calculated they actually did under an hour's  actual work. The work involved took 10 days......or under a day and a half if they put a proper shift in.

[lillythesavage]

A few years ago,  the local paper  covertly followed a road mending gang for a day.

They arrived in their truck at 8.30. Sat around, reading the paper. Got out , did a bit, then at 9.30 piled into the truck and went to Greggs.  And so it went on.

The paper  calculated they actually did under an hour's  actual work. The work involved took 10 days......or under a day and a half if they put a proper shift in.

I was in a park a while back, 7 council trucks each with a 2 man crew, I arrived at 9 and left at 11, later found out it was something about getting a green flag for the park, guess how many of 14 workers did any work in that 2 hours?

[Jerboa]

I've also noticed the rise in travel, took a ferry last week from Dover, I know it's peak time but extortionate! Car hire rates also seem to have shot up.