Elizabeth Line Scam warning

[lillythesavage]

I have just been made aware of this, not had time to check it out, and apparently a station manager has admitted " They are waiting for signs " to warn users.

Apparently this line is NOT INCLUDED in the usual fare structure, if you use another line to connect with it, YOU MUST TAP OUT OF YOUR JOURNEY AND TAP IN AGAIN TO THE NEW LINE.

Failure to do so leaves you liable to the maximum daily charge for your connecting journey as you have not ended it, tapping into the new line does not do this. That is a separate charge to the card you are using.

Like I say, just this minute been told, sure someone can check the payments they have made to see if it is correct, not used it myself.

[Kinkylondongent]

Been using it and not had this issue .

[lillythesavage]

Been using it and not had this issue .

You will not know it is an issue, unless you check the payments that have been taken from you apparently.

I was told it has been highlighted in Docklands local news media, the person telling me switched from DLR at Custom House and was charged the maximum fee for the DLR trip as they did not tap out, only tapped in and out of new line, which apparently is not included in the current fare structure in the same way the Thames Clipper is not, and the dumb cable car. You can use your Oyster/debit card but it is not included in the daily maximum charge apparently 

If there are no signs to tell you, why would you be aware?

[Gordon Bennett]

That does sound like cobblers. Why hasn't it come to light over past few weeks and tens/hundreds of thousands of journeys?
Obviously it leaves the TFL Oyster network at the Western end but I assume only an idiot would think they  can go to Reading for £3?

[lillythesavage]

That does sound like cobblers. Why hasn't it come to light over past few weeks and tens/hundreds of thousands of journeys?
Obviously it leaves the TFL Oyster network at the Western end but I assume only an idiot would think they  can go to Reading for £3?

A quick google came up with this.

External Link/Members Only

It appears it is not included in the Oyster fare structure, and that is where problems arise.



Made the BBC too.

External Link/Members Only


This is interesting too.
External Link/Members Only

[lillythesavage]

I think I have worked it out  .

If you interchange tube lines you do not have to tap out at the interchange, only at the end of your journey, you are charged 1 fare.

If you interchange the EL on your journey, you must tap out at the station you alight from, tap in to the EL and out when you alight and you are charged 2 fares, one for the existing network and one for use of the EL.

If you do not tap out of the existing network, even though you can use the same card for both, you are charged the maximum daily fare as you are not recorded as leaving the existing network.

As this has not been publicised and there are no signs to alert you to this, you are only aware if you check the amount you are paid for your journey. The EL requires you to tap in at every interchange, and out again to leave it, but there is nothing to tell you that you need to tap out of the connecting train you used to interchange if you have used one.

Using the same card to tap into the EL, does not record you as leaving the existing network and leaves you liable to extra cost. They are ran as separate networks with separate charges in the same way the Thames Clipper is.

That is my understanding of the situation from some quick research and what I was told.

No wonder my friend said the DLR from Woolwich has seen no change in passenger numbers, 

[Gordon Bennett]

A quick google came up with this.

External Link/Members Only

It appears it is not included in the Oyster fare structure, and that is where problems arise.



Made the BBC too.

External Link/Members Only


This is interesting too.
External Link/Members Only

Fair do's. I was replying to first post about it whilst you were adding the detail... You clarifying about DLR connection made it seem a far more likely glitch.

I'd say that out of about 20 times I've had to contact TFL about being overcharged, about 12 of those occasions involved a DLR leg on my journey. I reckon the DLR always has a ropey/weak pricing interface with rest of network when you make a few changes on your journey.
They always cough up a refund but there's a definite undercurrent to their logic that I probably didn't tap in or out and caused the problem myself - I always do though, including those pink ones at say, Stratford where you can prove you skirted around Zone 1 on your journey.

[lillythesavage]

Never had a problem with the DLR, usually park at Asda Beckton and use to the Northern one way or another, for KX and Euston.

My friend had parked at Beckton, changed to the EL at Custom House, not tapped out as continuing a single journey returning the next day, got caught twice for the maximum fare for the DLR part of the trip, plus the EL fare each way as she had to tap in and out to gain access and exit.

You would think it would be possible to have signs after a 3 year delay, or use the white boards they often use, or at least publicise it is not included in the usual fare structure around London.

As TFL are skint, no surprise 

[Kinkylondongent]

You will not know it is an issue, unless you check the payments that have been taken from you apparently.

I was told it has been highlighted in Docklands local news media, the person telling me switched from DLR at Custom House and was charged the maximum fee for the DLR trip as they did not tap out, only tapped in and out of new line, which apparently is not included in the current fare structure in the same way the Thames Clipper is not, and the dumb cable car. You can use your Oyster/debit card but it is not included in the daily maximum charge apparently 

If there are no signs to tell you, why would you be aware?

I have been checking , hence why I said it isn't an issue. Been using DLR and EL to get to work for years and in the days it was known as TFL rail and my daily fare hasn't changed .

[lillythesavage]

I have been checking , hence why I said it isn't an issue. Been using DLR and EL to get to work for years and in the days it was known as TFL rail and my daily fare hasn't changed .

You have been using a line that opened a couple of weeks ago for years? 

[Kinkylondongent]

You have been using a line that opened a couple of weeks ago for years? 

Yes , was TFL rail up until a few weeks ago . Same trains , same timetable.

[lillythesavage]

Yes , was TFL rail up until a few weeks ago . Same trains , same timetable.

Oh was it,  You are deluded I am afraid, or not reading properly before posting, how many people were on the carriage with you ?

[Kinkylondongent]

Oh was it,  You are deluded I am afraid, or not reading properly before posting, how many people were on the carriage with you ?

Form Wikipedia :

TfL Rail was the concession which operated commuter services on two separate railway lines in London, England and its environs whilst the Crossrail construction project linking these lines was underway. On 24 May 2022, upon the opening of the Crossrail central section, TfL Rail was rebranded as Elizabeth line and the name was discontinued.[2][3][4

[DastardlyDick]

Having read the "mylondon" article, it appears that you're all right!
It seems that people using the TfL app are getting overcharged, but people using cards (debit/credit/oyster) or - shock, horror - cash are not.

[petermisc]

There are plenty of places where you have to tap on a pink reader when changing, to avoid getting overcharged.  Likewise there are plenty of other places where the system recognises that you have to tap out and in again when changing trains, and recognises that it is one journey.  Not sure why this isn't working with Lizzy Line.  Perhaps because it has been set up assuming through running, that comes in later this year.

Unfortunately the Oyster card system has reached the limits of what it can do.  They can't add any more extra zones for example, which is why it can't be extended out to Reading.  They seem to be trying to persuade people away from Oyster onto contactless, but unfortunately contactless doesn't give Railcard discounts.

[lillythesavage]

Form Wikipedia :

TfL Rail was the concession which operated commuter services on two separate railway lines in London, England and its environs whilst the Crossrail construction project linking these lines was underway. On 24 May 2022, upon the opening of the Crossrail central section, TfL Rail was rebranded as Elizabeth line and the name was discontinued.[2][3][4

That is not the EL is it, that is part of it being connected to the standard network on a temp basis.

You seem to have a grasp of English grammar, your spelling and punctuation seem good, you 1 liners nearly make a sentence.

My guess is you are quite capable of stringing a paragraph together, with links, and state your reasoning in a single post.

Instead you chose to be just another boring 1 line troll .

[Horizontal pleasures]

I assume Freedom Pass (free travel for oldies) works on EL?

[PatMacGroin]

I assume Freedom Pass (free travel for oldies) works on EL?

The Freedom Pass definitely works on those stations within London upto and including zone 6.

I'm not sure, but I've got a feeling it doesn't once you go beyond zone 6. E.g. stations from Iver to Reading on the western route.

[lillythesavage]

The Freedom Pass definitely works on those stations within London upto and including zone 6.

I'm not sure, but I've got a feeling it doesn't once you go beyond zone 6. E.g. stations from Iver to Reading on the western route.

I think you are correct and it only is valid within the zones, , not sure about the EL though as it seems to have a separate fare structure like the Thames Clipper, where I think you only get a reduced fare, 

[Kinkylondongent]

That is not the EL is it, that is part of it being connected to the standard network on a temp basis.

You seem to have a grasp of English grammar, your spelling and punctuation seem good, you 1 liners nearly make a sentence.

My guess is you are quite capable of stringing a paragraph together, with links, and state your reasoning in a single post.

Instead you chose to be just another boring 1 line troll .

Life's too short.

[petermisc]

That is not the EL is it, that is part of it being connected to the standard network on a temp basis.

KLG is correct.   According to TfL, the EL consists of the existing services from Paddington and Liverpool Street, not just the new section through central London.

External Link/Members Only

not sure about the EL though as it seems to have a separate fare structure like the Thames Clipper, where I think you only get a reduced fare, 

Not sure where you got this load of bollocks.  All the publicity makes it clear that the EL is part of the standard TfL tube/rail fare structure.  There do appear to be a few teething problems at some interchanges, meaning that people are getting charged as though they are making two separate journeys, rather than one through journey, but this does not mean it has a separate fare structure like the Clipper.