Author Topic: Isle of Man TT races.  (Read 5513 times)

Offline daviemac

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It's the same in both cases, it just feels different.  Far from attending incidents "they weren't expecting" emergency services have sophisticated data management resources to predict where their activities are likely to peak, and move resources around to cope as best they can.  They know fine well that riders of motorbikes, horses, bikes, pedestrians and car drivers will all have accidents on their patch at some point; it's not "if" it's just where and when, and they respond accordingly.  Faster in cities, slower in large rural areas.

And the young lads (mainly) who come to grief on the roads of the Dales or Moors are no different to the TT riders fundamentally, they were enjoying doing what they wanted to do, but pushed it too far.
So what you are saying is if I ride my bike in the countryside, even on roads that are notoriously dangerous and I come off and end up in a field I will receive first aid just as quickly as I would at the IoM TT.   :unknown:

I've watched loads of tv programs about the ambulance service including the air ambulance and it always takes time for them to reach the scene of an accident.

The IoM isn't that big and they have Air-Med helicopters based on the island along with various other safety measures. These include GPS tracking (testing this year, mandatory next) and CCTV so they know where the riders are. That is not counting all the fully trained marshals.

If you think that is the same as me lying in a ditch, injured, trying to get my phone out of my leathers as well as trying to remember where I am then I give up.  :wacko:

Have a look at what safety measures are in place for the TT then come back and tell me it's the same as being on the road in the UK. Or even post a link to where there are medical staff dedicated purely to RTCs, as far as I'm aware the Air Ambulances service attend all kinds of emergencies.   

Offline Geoff800

At least you got that right.

'Lamboman',  'driving fast makes you a man'... making up for something much?  :D

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Offline Jomoore

So what you are saying is if I ride my bike in the countryside, even on roads that are notoriously dangerous and I come off and end up in a field I will receive first aid just as quickly as I would at the IoM TT.   :unknown:

No, I neither said nor meant that.  I'm simply saying that in each case there is some form of provision, tailored to the risk profile of the time/ place/ event.

But as I said to Lilly, that wasn't my main point at all, which was that whether we like, or approve of it, or not, these kind of accidents are going to continue to happen, whether we close down this dangerous sport or any of the others, the pursuit of dangerous thrills will just transfer.

Offline spiralnotebook

Quote
These include GPS tracking (testing this year, mandatory next) and CCTV

No riders slipping into the pub for a crafty one any more.

 :D

Offline lamboman

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'Lamboman',  'driving fast makes you a man'... making up for something much?  :D

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I never said that so I can't see your point.
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Online scutty brown

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So what you are saying is if I ride my bike in the countryside, even on roads that are notoriously dangerous and I come off and end up in a field I will receive first aid just as quickly as I would at the IoM TT.   :unknown:

I've watched loads of tv programs about the ambulance service including the air ambulance and it always takes time for them to reach the scene of an accident.

The IoM isn't that big and they have Air-Med helicopters based on the island along with various other safety measures. These include GPS tracking (testing this year, mandatory next) and CCTV so they know where the riders are. That is not counting all the fully trained marshals.

If you think that is the same as me lying in a ditch, injured, trying to get my phone out of my leathers as well as trying to remember where I am then I give up.  :wacko:

Have a look at what safety measures are in place for the TT then come back and tell me it's the same as being on the road in the UK. Or even post a link to where there are medical staff dedicated purely to RTCs, as far as I'm aware the Air Ambulances service attend all kinds of emergencies.

The target this year for getting a helicopter to a crash was six minutes. Target for getting them to hospital eighteen minutes (6/6/6 arrival/assessment/transport)
Each race has 600 marshals

Offline daviemac

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The target this year for getting a helicopter to a crash was six minutes. Target for getting them to hospital eighteen minutes (6/6/6 arrival/assessment/transport)
Each race has 600 marshals
The flight time for the Great North Air Ambulance from it's base to Newcastle is 14 minutes and that's after it's got airborne, even longer to get to the country roads in Northumberland. So by the time an injured motorcyclist has been found by emergency services and the helicopter called it could be an hour before he's airlifted to hospital.

So having one set of emergency workers alert and on standby watching for incidents solely to do with the racing that's going on, compared to another set on standby for a myriad of eventualities not only feels different as Jomoore put it, but is very different. 

Offline lamboman

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The flight time for the Great North Air Ambulance from it's base to Newcastle is 14 minutes and that's after it's got airborne, even longer to get to the country roads in Northumberland. So by the time an injured motorcyclist has been found by emergency services and the helicopter called it could be an hour before he's airlifted to hospital.

So having one set of emergency workers alert and on standby watching for incidents solely to do with the racing that's going on, compared to another set on standby for a myriad of eventualities not only feels different as Jomoore put it, but is very different.

I'm not certain on the TT but certainly for other road races there are doctors on motorcycles that ride (and not slowly either) to accidents.
They would get to an accident way before the helicopter.
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Online scutty brown

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I'm not certain on the TT but certainly for other road races there are doctors on motorcycles that ride (and not slowly either) to accidents.
They would get to an accident way before the helicopter.

They were used 30 or so years ago
It wasn't safe - realistically the whole race had to be red flagged before they could start - and you can't carry a casualty pillion
And no they're not quicker than a chopper - a bike isn't going to beat six minutes to get onsite
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 07:11:08 pm by scutty brown »

Offline lillythesavage

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I'm not certain on the TT but certainly for other road races there are doctors on motorcycles that ride (and not slowly either) to accidents.
They would get to an accident way before the helicopter.


On Irish closed road rallying before a road open car clears the stage a sweeper with a Doctor travels the whole stage, that on top of hundreds of Marshalls, private medical/rescue teams along the stage with private ambulances and a private helicopter on stand by, there is little demand on public services.

More chance of a dumb ass spectator needing them with car and course safety the way it is, always idiots get themselves where they should not be, helicopters are good at wiping out rally drivers though.
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Online scutty brown

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........ helicopters are good at wiping out rally drivers though.

please explain

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Offline daviemac

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please explain
Yet another totally inappropriate and unnecessary comment. Colin McRae died in a helicopter crash, for which he was blamed, along with his 5 year old son and his 6 year old friend.   :thumbsdown:

Offline lillythesavage

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Yet another totally inappropriate and unnecessary comment. Colin McRae died in a helicopter crash, for which he was blamed, along with his 5 year old son and his 6 year old friend.   :thumbsdown:

Bertie Fisher too, the biggest draw in Irish rallying, A NI citizen, killed with his kids too.

Unnecessary to come on a motorsport thread if you know nothing about, just want to deride the risks they take, which entertains millions of people worldwide, from your padded bungalow  :D.
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Offline daviemac

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Bertie Fisher too, the biggest draw in Irish rallying, A NI citizen, killed with his kids too.

Unnecessary to come on a motorsport thread if you know nothing about, just want to deride the risks they take, which entertains millions of people worldwide, from your padded bungalow  :D.
You know nothing about me or what I know about motor sport, however I know that you are pushing your luck on this forum.

Online scutty brown

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You know nothing about me or what I know about motor sport, however I know that you are pushing your luck on this forum.

I don't think his comment was aimed at you Davie

Offline daviemac

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I don't think his comment was aimed at you Davie
He quoted me, what am I supposed to think.   :unknown: 

« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 12:24:34 am by daviemac »

Online scutty brown

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He quoted me, what am I supposed to think.   :unknown:

I may be wrong but it looks more like a confused attempt to agree with you

Offline daviemac

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I may be wrong but it looks more like a confused attempt to agree with you
Regardless of who his comment is aimed at why is he bringing two rally car drivers who sadly died 15 and 20 years ago while flying their own helicopters (along with their children) onto a thread about the IoM TT motorcycle racing and the safety aspect of that compared to a comparable incident on UK roads. 

Offline lillythesavage

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Regardless of who his comment is aimed at why is he bringing two rally car drivers who sadly died 15 and 20 years ago while flying their own helicopters (along with their children) onto a thread about the IoM TT motorcycle racing and the safety aspect of that compared to a comparable incident on UK roads.


True, I apologise. the course Doctor thing and safety helicopters reminded me of Bertie and Colin.

Back on track, along the Thames from the Borders of East London through Essex has been plagued with underground events for years, both cars and motorcycles, still is, and people have died in crashes, the authorities clamp down but they move elsewhere.

There is no safety aspect at all, the emergency services are not geared up waiting for something to happen as has been suggested, it cannot be compared to organised legal events  :unknown:.
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Offline lamboman

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Offline lamboman

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They were used 30 or so years ago
It wasn't safe - realistically the whole race had to be red flagged before they could start - and you can't carry a casualty pillion
And no they're not quicker than a chopper - a bike isn't going to beat six minutes to get onsite

Well they are still used in Irish Roads and are a lot quicker to an accident than a chopper,it's laughable you think they might carry a pillion.
I don't think you know what you are talking about.
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Online scutty brown

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Well they are still used in Irish Roads and are a lot quicker to an accident than a chopper,it's laughable you think they might carry a pillion.
I don't think you know what you are talking about.

My point was that a bike is useless for getting someone to hospital, so a helicopter is going to be needed anyway.
As for comparing the Irish events, the Ulster TT is on a 7.4 mile course, the NorthWest 200 on a 8.9 mile course - both a lot shorter than the 37 mile mountain circuit

Offline king tarzan

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That's terrible news and seems so cruel

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Say those are the risks in high octane sports.
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Offline Newtothisstuff

It's incredible that it's still running. Ever since it started in 1937, if you don't count the years it wasn't run (covid etc) there has only been one year when nobody died. The average is two deaths a year and three with life changing injuries. Look at it that way and you wonder why the authorities on the island let it carry on. Then you look at the money. By not running the race in 2021, the IoM treasury estimates it lost out on almost £250m!
There's little else on the island to attract tourists so, so long as people are willing to risk their lives and tourists want to watch them, it'll keep running.

Offline petermisc

It's incredible that it's still running. Ever since it started in 1937, if you don't count the years it wasn't run (covid etc) there has only been one year when nobody died. The average is two deaths a year and three with life changing injuries. Look at it that way and you wonder why the authorities on the island let it carry on. Then you look at the money. By not running the race in 2021, the IoM treasury estimates it lost out on almost £250m!
There's little else on the island to attract tourists so, so long as people are willing to risk their lives and tourists want to watch them, it'll keep running.
It isn't just the money.  If you talk to the locals, there is a lot of support and pride in the event, and a lot of interest in motorbiking on the island.

Online mr.bluesky

It isn't just the money.  If you talk to the locals, there is a lot of support and pride in the event, and a lot of interest in motorbiking on the island.

It certainly is a unique event and puts the Isle of Man on the world map for a couple of weeks of the year.