The Politics Thread

[Vice Admiral]

According to Google AI, the causes of the fall of the Roman Empire around 476 A D were as follows: 
1.  Invasions by Migrant and Germanic Tribes
2.  Economic Crises and Inflation
3.  Loss of the Tax Base
4.  Political Instability and Corruption
5.  Overexpansion
6.  Environmental and Health Pressures

Remind you of anywhere?

Apart from 5, that’s pretty well a dead ringer for Britain and Europe in 2026 A D.

History repeats itself.

For some reason the events in my local city of Portsmouth last night have made me focus especially keenly on the issue of our imminent decline and fall:
External Link/Members Only

An “empire” that wants to survive needs to strike back.

Russia and Israel perform atrocities in Ukraine and Gaza on a daily basis, and no-one lifts a finger.  So what would happen if Britain started firing a few warning shots at the boats?  And, if that didn’t stop them coming, blew a few of them out of the water?

Not, of course, that – as a fully-paid-up member of the liberal metropolitan elite – I would ever dream of suggesting such a thing myself...

[Punting2022]

According to Google AI, the causes of the fall of the Roman Empire around 476 A D were as follows: 
1.  Invasions by Migrant and Germanic Tribes
2.  Economic Crises and Inflation
3.  Loss of the Tax Base
4.  Political Instability and Corruption
5.  Overexpansion
6.  Environmental and Health Pressures

Remind you of anywhere?



Apart from 5, that’s pretty well a dead ringer for Britain and Europe in 2026 A D.

History repeats itself.

For some reason the events in my local city of Portsmouth last night have made me focus especially keenly on the issue of our imminent decline and fall:
External Link/Members Only

An “empire” that wants to survive needs to strike back.

Russia and Israel perform atrocities in Ukraine and Gaza on a daily basis, and no-one lifts a finger.  So what would happen if Britain started firing a few warning shots at the boats?  And, if that didn’t stop them coming, blew a few of them out of the water?

Not, of course, that – as a fully-paid-up member of the liberal metropolitan elite – I would ever dream of suggesting such a thing myself...

Replace Number 1 in UK with Invasions by Migrants and the rise of islamic tribes

[Private Parts]

Replace Number 1 in UK with Invasions by Migrants and the rise of islamic tribes

Maybe you should move to what was eastern germany and parler/sprechen with the AFD boys and girls.
 

[RandomGuy99]

Maybe you should move to what was eastern germany and parler/sprechen with the AFD boys and girls.
 

51,000 people per year arriving by small boats isn't exactly an invasion.

There were 800,000 legal immigrants to the UK last year and that was a 20% drop on the previous year.

Some groups are using the small boats issue to cause division amongst the population.

[Vice Admiral]

51,000 people per year arriving by small boats isn't exactly an invasion.
There were 800,000 legal immigrants to the UK last year and that was a 20% drop on the previous year.

I too have in the past observed that legal immigration is far more of a problem then illegal immigration.  The numbers speak for themselves.

The greater problem still is the presence in the United Kingdom already of hundreds of thousands of unassimilated people with little allegiance to the nation or its traditions.

When a nation's economy is in good shape, and most people are just about comfortably off, that is liveable with.

But when a nation's economy gets into major trouble – as ours is likely to do over the next decade or two – then tensions between different sections of the population can become dangerous.

[Private Parts]

Randomguy.
Quite right. The normal exchange of folk over the year enhances the strength of this country. Perhaps we could swap our bigots with more enterprising folk.
Fresh blood.
'Nuff said
 

[RandomGuy99]

I too have in the past observed that legal immigration is far more of a problem then illegal immigration.  The numbers speak for themselves.

The greater problem still is the presence in the United Kingdom already of hundreds of thousands of unassimilated people with little allegiance to the nation or its traditions.

When a nation's economy is in good shape, and most people are just about comfortably off, that is liveable with.

But when a nation's economy gets into major trouble – as ours is likely to do over the next decade or two – then tensions between different sections of the population can become dangerous.

I think this "unassimilation" problem is just standard for immigrants in any country. Immigrants especially with English as a second language may often struggle to communicate with people or feel more comfortable in their own communities. This is to be expected. As immigrants have child and their child make friends with the locals the family start to adapt to life in the UK. Theor kids join organisations like the brownies or the cubs and they go to school events. That's all standard stuff for any immigrant in any country.

Historically, communities have formed areas/enclaves of cities like China towns or little Italy as they settle into new places. That's just how people settle into cities. It's normal.

Immigrants generally want their move to the UK to be successful. They moved to create a better life for their children.  Immigrants are often the hardest working as they want to be successful.  You see the same thing happening in many countries including the US.

It's easy to blame immigrants for the UK problems. They're not the real cause of the problems. The real cause is successive governments being incompetent and making bad decisions and people in the UK getting fat and lazy and prices being a little out of control. COVID has also had an effect on many aspects of life in the UK.

Sadly, it's all getting a bit like the 1930s in Germany with the rise of the Nazi party.

[RandomGuy99]

I recently walked through a house estate which is owned by a housing association. Housing associations are generally for people on lower incomes who may struggle to buy a house. They're a good idea. The thing that struck me was the number of high end cars like mercedes that were parked outside these houses.  Clearly those households have money.

You also see people on TV saying they're having to use food banks because they can't afford food yet they have their nails done, fake tan, the latest iphone and Sky TV on in the background. I know this isn't everyone and there are people who are genuinely struggling too.  People want to live a lifestyle that they can't afford, so they claim benefits instead of adapting their lifestyle to what they can afford or getting trained to get a better paid job as people would do in the past. The same thing is happening around the world and is probably an effect of social media with everyone thinking they have to live a certain way.

People blame illegal immigrants as the easy option. It's not true.

Yes, there are a bunch of troublemaker illegal immigrants and we should have laws to be able to deport them. Sadly, the law has gone soft on most things except speed cameras. It's gone soft because of weak governments.

[DastardlyDick]

Iran do a lot of fake news. USA done a good job hitting three of their tankers. Only right TBH. Iran have been hitting other countries tankers. About time their ones are hit.
Trump needs to stop faffing about. Take Kharg Island. Insted of wasting ammo on on small targets. Get the job done

I'd be prepared to bet the Iranians already have demolition charges in the right places on Kharg Island - if the US attempted to take it, they'd be blown and there would be (a) no loading of tankers and (b) a massive oil slick. The Yanks would have to repair/replace miles of pipes and shut off valves. I doubt these are "off the shelf" items they'd have to be made, which would take weeks or months. I'm sure the wiser heads in the US Military have managed to point this out in a way Trump understands.

[DastardlyDick]

I recently walked through a house estate which is owned by a housing association. Housing associations are generally for people on lower incomes who may struggle to buy a house. They're a good idea. The thing that struck me was the number of high end cars like mercedes that were parked outside these houses.  Clearly those households have money.

You also see people on TV saying they're having to use food banks because they can't afford food yet they have their nails done, fake tan, the latest iphone and Sky TV on in the background. I know this isn't everyone and there are people who are genuinely struggling too.  People want to live a lifestyle that they can't afford, so they claim benefits instead of adapting their lifestyle to what they can afford or getting trained to get a better paid job as people would do in the past. The same thing is happening around the world and is probably an effect of social media with everyone thinking they have to live a certain way.

People blame illegal immigrants as the easy option. It's not true.

Yes, there are a bunch of troublemaker illegal immigrants and we should have laws to be able to deport them. Sadly, the law has gone soft on most things except speed cameras. It's gone soft because of weak governments.

The expensive cars may be motobility cars. They are not "free" the keepers have use the mobility part of their PIP or DLA payment (£110 per week) You can have as many people doing this as you like, and includes disabled children, so someone could easily get £880 per month.
I can't comment about sky tv, but the nails and tans may be a result of friends doing favours. There's enough of that type of shop around - there's 5 that I know of near me.
Training for jobs is virtually non existent these days, various governments have tried all sorts of "schemes" to help but employers tend to use them as a source of cheap labour. I am aware of several who eventually had their access removed because they abused the system.
It's difficult to deal with Offenders (illegal or other otherwise) we have nowhere to put them and won't have for a number of years. The Police arrest them and put them before tha Courts only to see them back on the streets due to lack of Prison Space. Fining them makes it worse, fines are deducted from any benefit they might be on, so they commit more crime to get money to replace the deduction.

[Vice Admiral]

Last night I watched a repeat of Laura Kuenssberg’s interview with Nigel Farage on YouTube – a version that included a strange bald man with a big beard stopping the action now and then to make not especially insightful comments.

The thing is that he presents so well.  (Farage, not the man with the big beard.)  I’ve said before and I’ve  said again, he’s the most masterly political performer of the past 20 years.

In January 2016 Donald Trump famously said at a campaign stop at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa:  “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?  It's, like, incredible."

Farage is the same.  He somehow manages to radiate transparency and sincerity and honesty, together with a good dose of “What, me guv?” – and gets away with metaphorical murder.

And it’s dangerous.

No-one else would have had the chutzpah to make the kind of excuse he gave Kuenssberg when tackled about the obvious illegality of the proposed donation being discussed in front of him in July:  "I am not a compliance officer. I was in the middle of canvassing in the Clacton by-election. I turn up. I frankly wasn't even listening."

[pbrown355]

The expensive cars may be motobility cars. They are not "free" the keepers have use the mobility part of their PIP or DLA payment (£110 per week) You can have as many people doing this as you like, and includes disabled children, so someone could easily get £880 per month.
I can't comment about sky tv, but the nails and tans may be a result of friends doing favours. There's enough of that type of shop around - there's 5 that I know of near me.
Training for jobs is virtually non existent these days, various governments have tried all sorts of "schemes" to help but employers tend to use them as a source of cheap labour. I am aware of several who eventually had their access removed because they abused the system.
It's difficult to deal with Offenders (illegal or other otherwise) we have nowhere to put them and won't have for a number of years. The Police arrest them and put them before tha Courts only to see them back on the streets due to lack of Prison Space. Fining them makes it worse, fines are deducted from any benefit they might be on, so they commit more crime to get money to replace the deduction.

If the taxpayer buys it I would say it was "free" certainly to that individual.
Because employers abuse the system would be a poor reason not to do it. Improving the system would be a better idea.
Prison space. I can see the problem with nowhere to lock them up, but fining them would be ok, just remove all their benefits. If the resulting crime wave causes overcrowding in prisons, add an extra person in each cell. Human rights? Frankly I don't care. Our society should work best for those who contribute, and less babying of those who are deliberately a negative effect on the space around them.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Iran do a lot of fake news. USA done a good job hitting three of their tankers. Only right TBH. Iran have been hitting other countries tankers. About time their ones are hit.
Trump needs to stop faffing about. Take Kharg Island. Insted of wasting ammo on on small targets. Get the job done

Who started this?
And you spout shite about fake news?

[mills_and_bhuna]

Last night I watched a repeat of Laura Kuenssberg’s interview with Nigel Farage on YouTube – a version that included a strange bald man with a big beard stopping the action now and then to make not especially insightful comments.

The thing is that he presents so well.  (Farage, not the man with the big beard.)  I’ve said before and I’ve  said again, he’s the most masterly political performer of the past 20 years.

In January 2016 Donald Trump famously said at a campaign stop at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa:  “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?  It's, like, incredible."

Farage is the same.  He somehow manages to radiate transparency and sincerity and honesty, together with a good dose of “What, me guv?” – and gets away with metaphorical murder.

And it’s dangerous.

No-one else would have had the chutzpah to make the kind of excuse he gave Kuenssberg when tackled about the obvious illegality of the proposed donation being discussed in front of him in July:  "I am not a compliance officer. I was in the middle of canvassing in the Clacton by-election. I turn up. I frankly wasn't even listening."

Did you really imply that Trump radiates transparency, sincerity and honesty?
That's an even bigger stretch than 'stable genius'. 

[Blackpool Rock]

Last night I watched a repeat of Laura Kuenssberg’s interview with Nigel Farage on YouTube – a version that included a strange bald man with a big beard stopping the action now and then to make not especially insightful comments.

The thing is that he presents so well.  (Farage, not the man with the big beard.)  I’ve said before and I’ve  said again, he’s the most masterly political performer of the past 20 years.

In January 2016 Donald Trump famously said at a campaign stop at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa:  “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?  It's, like, incredible."

Farage is the same.  He somehow manages to radiate transparency and sincerity and honesty, together with a good dose of “What, me guv?” – and gets away with metaphorical murder.

And it’s dangerous.

No-one else would have had the chutzpah to make the kind of excuse he gave Kuenssberg when tackled about the obvious illegality of the proposed donation being discussed in front of him in July:  "I am not a compliance officer. I was in the middle of canvassing in the Clacton by-election. I turn up. I frankly wasn't even listening."

I already know Farage is a massive grifting cunt but I was gobsmacked at his replies and the excuses he was giving, OK so many of his thick as shit core voters won't be put off but honestly he didn't even appear at all embarrassed by the BS he was spouting 

It's almost on the same level of OJ Simpson being chased by god knows how many cop cars for god knows how many miles and claiming he didn't see them   

[bigden40]

I'd be prepared to bet the Iranians already have demolition charges in the right places on Kharg Island - if the US attempted to take it, they'd be blown and there would be (a) no loading of tankers and (b) a massive oil slick. The Yanks would have to repair/replace miles of pipes and shut off valves. I doubt these are "off the shelf" items they'd have to be made, which would take weeks or months. I'm sure the wiser heads in the US Military have managed to point this out in a way Trump understands.

Yeah, nah.

Iran would blow up its own primary oil export terminal and create a massive slick just to deny the US temporary control of Kharg? That would be an act of pure self-harm.

Almost their entire oil revenue flows through that island. Taking it offline for weeks or months would crater the Iranian economy far harder and faster than any US sanctions package. The US, by contrast, is a net oil exporter and has negligible dependence on Middle Eastern crude. An oil slick and damaged Iranian infrastructure would be an Iranian problem, not an American one.

The idea that this is some masterstroke deterrence that “wiser heads” need to explain to Trump is laughable, and turns the actual incentives upside down. Iran has every reason to keep Kharg intact and functioning. Suggesting they would deliberately destroy it as a first move is confusing spite with strategy.

[Punting2022]

Who started this?
And you spout shite about fake news?

No islamic country Should be allowed a Nuke.
Pakistan are a bigger threat then people give credit for. Who trained Bin Laden. Pakistan. People assume the taliban were at fault. But the number one state supporter of terror is Pakistan and Iran.
They have sleeper cells all over the world ready to strike.

[mills_and_bhuna]

No islamic country can have a nuke tbh.

Bullshit.
The only country that has ever used them is a secular country.
And from what I'm seeing and hearing from their spokesmen I'd be more wary about a certain secular state purporting to be a Jewish one using them.
You know.
The one currently committing a genocide?

[bigden40]

Who started this?
And you spout shite about fake news?

How far back do you want to go?

You’re rather inconsistent on this a ssuits whatever argument you want to make e.g. Ukraine war really started with the US backed coup in 2014 rather than with the Russian invasion of 2022; all Middle East problems started in 1948: but the Iran conflict just started in February.

[mr.bluesky]

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Jerboa]

Randomguy.
Quite right. The normal exchange of folk over the year enhances the strength of this country. Perhaps we could swap our bigots with more enterprising folk.
Fresh blood.
'Nuff said
 

Nonsense, in history Britain has never received this amount or immigration legal or illegal. The Norman invasion was approx 7,000 to 12,000. Post war immigration to Britain was constantly in the tens of thousands. Until Tony Bliar began the mass immigration in the late 90's, which has continued until the present.

[mills_and_bhuna]

How far back do you want to go?

You’re rather inconsistent on this a ssuits whatever argument you want to make e.g. Ukraine war really started with the US backed coup in 2014 rather than with the Russian invasion of 2022; all Middle East problems started in 1948: but the Iran conflict just started in February.

Conflicts are always difficult to pinpoint a start.
What is clear is that any time the good old US of A gets involved things usually escalate.
They have a hand in pretty much every conflict today because it suits them to see chaos everywhere.
Their main aim at the moment is to maintain hegemony and since they can't compete with China they are starting proxy wars and 'color revolutions' sith CIA and NED funding all over the globe.
Myanmar, Phillipines, Indonesia. You name it.
Sabotaging the belt and road .
The Great Satan pretty much sums them up.
External Link/Members Only

[Punting2022]

Nonsense, in history Britain has never received this amount or immigration legal or illegal. The Norman invasion was approx 7,000 to 12,000. Post war immigration to Britain was constantly in the tens of thousands. Until Tony Bliar began the mass immigration in the late 90's, which has continued until the present.

The somali and islam invasion is the highest. These are also two ethnic groups that have no desire to work. Thier religion allows them to have multiple wives and kids. This on benifits along with the 3 child cap removed, lets them earn 50k plus sitting at home.

[Charliehutton]

Not, of course, that – as a fully-paid-up member of the liberal metropolitan elite – I would ever dream of suggesting such a thing myself...

Have you been reading the bloody Guardian again, you big softie?

[Jomoore]

They have sleeper cells all over the world ready to strike.

Eg Bradford, one huge sleeper cell 

[Charliehutton]

The very mention of the name of prominent Right wing politicians - Trump, Farage, Mrs Thatcher, for example - seems to send some otherwise apparently sensible people with left of centre views into paroxysms of hysterical rage, bursting with bile, vitriol and hatred. Anyone who fails to condemn these prominent figures must, by definition, be either bigoted, thick, gormless, racist, or quite probably, all of those things.

Yet prominent Left wing politicians - Corbyn or Polanski, for example, don't seem to generate the same raging emotions to those of us leaning to the Right. We just think their supporters are misguided.

Is this fair comment, do you think? If so, I wonder why that is.

[RandomGuy99]

Nonsense, in history Britain has never received this amount or immigration legal or illegal. The Norman invasion was approx 7,000 to 12,000. Post war immigration to Britain was constantly in the tens of thousands. Until Tony Bliar began the mass immigration in the late 90's, which has continued until the present.

There has been changes to allow people in when there were shortages of certain skills. There are no longer shortages in some of those skills. However, some professions such as health care and nursing still have significant shortages because British people decided they didn't want to do those jobs. Without immigrants you may struggle to be treated in a hospital.

There's also been a boom in international students and their families because without them many British universities would struggle to exist.

For 2025 the countries the immigrants came from

Legal immigration — major visa categories

Study visas — main applicants

Country   Number
🇨🇳 China   99,919
🇮🇳 India   98,014
🇵🇰 Pakistan   37,013
🇳🇬 Nigeria   ~32,000
🇺🇸 United States   ~23,000


you are acting as an expert in immigration to the uk in 2025. which countries did the legal and illegal immigrants come from?

Yes. If by “legal immigrants” you mean people who came to the UK through authorised immigration routes, and by “illegal immigrants” you mean people detected entering irregularly, the picture in 2025 is quite different between the two groups.

The best official comparison is the Home Office's year ending June 2025 statistics.

Legal immigration — main nationalities
For people receiving visas to come to the UK for work, study or family reasons, the largest groups included:

Nationality   Major route(s)
🇮🇳 India   Work, study, family
🇨🇳 China   Study, visitors
🇳🇬 Nigeria   Work, study, family
🇵🇰 Pakistan   Work, study, family
🇺🇸 United States   Work, study, family
🇧🇩 Bangladesh   Work, study
🇳🇵 Nepal   Study, family
🇿🇼 Zimbabwe   Work, study
🇵🇭 Philippines   Work
🇹🇷 Turkey   Work, study
For example, India and China were the two largest sources of sponsored students in the year to June 2025: 99,919 Chinese and 98,014 Indian students received study visas. Pakistan was third with 37,013.

For family visas, Pakistan was the largest nationality, accounting for 14% (9,647) of grants, followed by substantial numbers from Iran, the US, Syria and Afghanistan.

There were 852,324 non-visitor/non-transit visas granted in total in that year: 435,891 study, 286,071 work, 70,961 family and 59,401 other.

Irregular immigration — particularly small boats
This is a very different nationality profile.

There were 43,309 small-boat arrivals in the year ending June 2025.

The largest nationality was Afghanistan, accounting for about 15% (around 6,400 people).

The main nationalities claiming asylum overall were:

🇵🇰 Pakistan

🇦🇫 Afghanistan

🇮🇷 Iran

🇪🇷 Eritrea

🇧🇩 Bangladesh

Together these five accounted for 37% of all asylum claimants in the year ending June 2025.

Other significant nationalities among irregular/small-boat arrivals have included Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Vietnam, Sudan and Albania. The composition has changed considerably over time—for example, Albanian arrivals were particularly prominent in 2022 but had fallen substantially by 2025.

One important distinction
It isn't technically accurate to call everyone who arrives by small boat an “illegal immigrant.” Under UK law, a person can arrive without prior permission and then make an asylum claim, which is a legal process. The Home Office therefore calls these “irregular arrivals.” In the year to June 2025, about 95% of people arriving by small boat since 2018 had claimed asylum.

Also, not all asylum seekers entered irregularly: in the year to June 2025, 41,100 asylum claimants had previously entered on a visa or other form of leave.

If you'd like, I can also give you a single ranked table showing the top 20 countries of origin for (1) legal immigration and (2) asylum/irregular immigration in 2025, with actual numbers for each country.


what were the numbers from each country?

Yes. I should clarify one point from my previous answer: there isn't a single official figure for “legal immigrants by country”, because legal migration is recorded by route (work, study, family, humanitarian, etc.), and the same person can appear in different visa statistics. So the cleanest comparison is by visa grants and, separately, irregular/small-boat arrivals.

For the year ending June 2025, the official Home Office figures give the following.

Legal immigration — major visa categories


Study visas — main applicants

Country   Number
🇨🇳 China   99,919
🇮🇳 India   98,014
🇵🇰 Pakistan   37,013
🇳🇬 Nigeria   ~32,000
🇺🇸 United States   ~23,000

China and India alone accounted for almost half of all sponsored study visas.

Family visas

Country   Number
🇵🇰 Pakistan   9,647
🇮🇷 Iran   4,268
🇸🇾 Syria   3,808
🇦🇫 Afghanistan   2,569
🇺🇸 United States   2,802 partner visas
🇮🇳 India   2,629 partner visas

There were 70,961 family visas in total.

For work

The Home Office reports 182,553 work visas to main applicants across all work categories. The nationality breakdown is more complicated because it is split across Skilled Worker, Health & Care, Temporary Worker, Youth Mobility,

Small boat arrivals

There were 43,309 small-boat arrivals in the year ending June 2025.

Nationality   Arrivals
🇦🇫 Afghanistan   6,360
🇪🇷 Eritrea   5,975
🇮🇷 Iran   ~3,800
🇸🇾 Syria   ~3,100
🇸🇩 Sudan   ~2,800
🇦🇱 Albania   ~1,500

The five largest nationalities—Afghan, Eritrean, Iranian, Syrian and Sudanese—made up almost 60% of all small-boat arrivals.

It's a long way to travel for these small boat people. It's a hard and risky journey which people don't undertake at a whim.

[RandomGuy99]

So small boats aren't the cause of any immigration problem.

[Thephoenix]

The very mention of the name of prominent Right wing politicians - Trump, Farage, Mrs Thatcher, for example - seems to send some otherwise apparently sensible people with left of centre views into paroxysms of hysterical rage, bursting with bile, vitriol and hatred. Anyone who fails to condemn these prominent figures must, by definition, be either bigoted, thick, gormless, racist, or quite probably, all of those things.

Yet prominent Left wing politicians - Corbyn or Polanski, for example, don't seem to generate the same raging emotions to those of us leaning to the Right. We just think their supporters are misguided.

Is this fair comment, do you think? If so, I wonder why that is.

Very fair Charlie.
I think that's always been the trend.

[juzz]

The very mention of the name of prominent Right wing politicians - Trump, Farage, Mrs Thatcher, for example - seems to send some otherwise apparently sensible people with left of centre views into paroxysms of hysterical rage, bursting with bile, vitriol and hatred. Anyone who fails to condemn these prominent figures must, by definition, be either bigoted, thick, gormless, racist, or quite probably, all of those things.

Yet prominent Left wing politicians - Corbyn or Polanski, for example, don't seem to generate the same raging emotions to those of us leaning to the Right. We just think their supporters are misguided.

Is this fair comment, do you think? If so, I wonder why that is.

I think the far left stirs up just as much hatred. I remember detesting Corbyn - and fortunately when it came to a General Election many seemed to agree. Then we realised we had Boris...

[DastardlyDick]

The very mention of the name of prominent Right wing politicians - Trump, Farage, Mrs Thatcher, for example - seems to send some otherwise apparently sensible people with left of centre views into paroxysms of hysterical rage, bursting with bile, vitriol and hatred. Anyone who fails to condemn these prominent figures must, by definition, be either bigoted, thick, gormless, racist, or quite probably, all of those things.

Yet prominent Left wing politicians - Corbyn or Polanski, for example, don't seem to generate the same raging emotions to those of us leaning to the Right. We just think their supporters are misguided.

Is this fair comment, do you think? If so, I wonder why that is.

It's certainly a fair point.
My take on it is that the Left is just rubbish with Social Media.

[Salamander4]

The very mention of the name of prominent Right wing politicians - Trump, Farage, Mrs Thatcher, for example - seems to send some otherwise apparently sensible people with left of centre views into paroxysms of hysterical rage, bursting with bile, vitriol and hatred. Anyone who fails to condemn these prominent figures must, by definition, be either bigoted, thick, gormless, racist, or quite probably, all of those things.

Yet prominent Left wing politicians - Corbyn or Polanski, for example, don't seem to generate the same raging emotions to those of us leaning to the Right. We just think their supporters are misguided.

Is this fair comment, do you think? If so, I wonder why that is.

Very fair. As for reasons, I think it's simply because the right has a fair amount of liberalism in it that says "agree to disagree, each to their own" and the left is authoritarian in its very nature ergo its proponents want control. If they sense people may disagree with them their intolerance for that shines through.

[Blackpool Rock]

I think the far left stirs up just as much hatred. I remember detesting Corbyn - and fortunately when it came to a General Election many seemed to agree. Then we realised we had Boris...

Agreed, many on here would level the term "Leftie" at me but I couldn't stand Corbyn or Abbott etc and have been very critical and cutting of them.

But let's not forget that the right even seem to get in a real lather at the mention of Blair, probably just jealousy that he was the best Tory PM they never had   

[whiskyfan]

The very mention of the name of prominent Right wing politicians - Trump, Farage, Mrs Thatcher, for example - seems to send some otherwise apparently sensible people with left of centre views into paroxysms of hysterical rage, bursting with bile, vitriol and hatred. Anyone who fails to condemn these prominent figures must, by definition, be either bigoted, thick, gormless, racist, or quite probably, all of those things.

Yet prominent Left wing politicians - Corbyn or Polanski, for example, don't seem to generate the same raging emotions to those of us leaning to the Right. We just think their supporters are misguided.

Is this fair comment, do you think? If so, I wonder why that is.

Rather disingenuous of you not to mention the likes of Obama, Biden, Sturgeon, etc who were utterly hated by the right, and of course Blair who's managed to be universally loathed by almost everyone.

[Blackpool Rock]

Rather disingenuous of you not to mention the likes of Obama, Biden, Sturgeon, etc who were utterly hated by the right, and of course Blair who's managed to be universally loathed by almost everyone.

Even Starmer seems to come in for a lot of mass hatred despite him being fairly non offensive and frankly quite insipid 

[RandomGuy99]

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[RedKettle]

Nonsense, in history Britain has never received this amount or immigration legal or illegal. The Norman invasion was approx 7,000 to 12,000. Post war immigration to Britain was constantly in the tens of thousands. Until Tony Bliar began the mass immigration in the late 90's, which has continued until the present.

The uk population then was about  one and a half half million so that was a significant amount

[Followyourdick]

The very mention of the name of prominent Right wing politicians - Trump, Farage, Mrs Thatcher, for example - seems to send some otherwise apparently sensible people with left of centre views into paroxysms of hysterical rage, bursting with bile, vitriol and hatred. Anyone who fails to condemn these prominent figures must, by definition, be either bigoted, thick, gormless, racist, or quite probably, all of those things.

Yet prominent Left wing politicians - Corbyn or Polanski, for example, don't seem to generate the same raging emotions to those of us leaning to the Right. We just think their supporters are misguided.

Is this fair comment, do you think? If so, I wonder why that is.

Hmmm, that's not entirely true though is it?


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[Private Parts]

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[mills_and_bhuna]

Rather disingenuous of you not to mention the likes of Obama, Biden, Sturgeon, etc who were utterly hated by the right, and of course Blair who's managed to be universally loathed by almost everyone.

Mind you I hate them too.

[RandomGuy99]

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I hope he's joking

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They seem to have missed the skulls and crossed bones.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Hmmm, that's not entirely true though is it?


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As usual with Charlie boy, not even remotely true.
Corbyn was branded an antisemite and the whole mainstream media joined in.
Trump bombed a girls school, murdered 200 fishermen without due legal process, kidnapped a President of a sovereign country, assassinated another with his family, and funded and continues to fund a genocide.
If someone can lay out anything remotely comparable that Corbyn has done I'd be happy to discuss.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Even Starmer seems to come in for a lot of mass hatred despite him being fairly non offensive and frankly quite insipid 

I don't suppose being a lying, backstabbing, genocide supporting piece of excrement has anything to do with it.....

[Doc Holliday]

If someone can lay out anything remotely comparable that Corbyn has done I'd be happy to discuss.

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[mills_and_bhuna]

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Let the discussion begin.....

[Blackpool Rock]

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Clearly he's as mad as a box of frogs and should be sectioned before allowing him to run the country, mind you it runs in the family as his brother seems bat shit crazy 

[scutty brown]

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I told you he was potty

[Jerboa]

The uk population then was about  one and a half half million so that was a significant amount

My figure is 2 million, 10,000 would have been 0.5%

[Jerboa]

There has been changes to allow people in when there were shortages of certain skills. There are no longer shortages in some of those skills. However, some professions such as health care and nursing still have significant shortages because British people decided they didn't want to do those jobs. Without immigrants you may struggle to be treated in a hospital.

There's also been a boom in international students and their families because without them many British universities would struggle to exist.

For 2025 the countries the immigrants came from

Legal immigration — major visa categories

Study visas — main applicants

Country   Number
🇨🇳 China   99,919
🇮🇳 India   98,014
🇵🇰 Pakistan   37,013
🇳🇬 Nigeria   ~32,000
🇺🇸 United States   ~23,000


you are acting as an expert in immigration to the uk in 2025. which countries did the legal and illegal immigrants come from?

Yes. If by “legal immigrants” you mean people who came to the UK through authorised immigration routes, and by “illegal immigrants” you mean people detected entering irregularly, the picture in 2025 is quite different between the two groups.

The best official comparison is the Home Office's year ending June 2025 statistics.

Legal immigration — main nationalities
For people receiving visas to come to the UK for work, study or family reasons, the largest groups included:

Nationality   Major route(s)
🇮🇳 India   Work, study, family
🇨🇳 China   Study, visitors
🇳🇬 Nigeria   Work, study, family
🇵🇰 Pakistan   Work, study, family
🇺🇸 United States   Work, study, family
🇧🇩 Bangladesh   Work, study
🇳🇵 Nepal   Study, family
🇿🇼 Zimbabwe   Work, study
🇵🇭 Philippines   Work
🇹🇷 Turkey   Work, study
For example, India and China were the two largest sources of sponsored students in the year to June 2025: 99,919 Chinese and 98,014 Indian students received study visas. Pakistan was third with 37,013.

For family visas, Pakistan was the largest nationality, accounting for 14% (9,647) of grants, followed by substantial numbers from Iran, the US, Syria and Afghanistan.

There were 852,324 non-visitor/non-transit visas granted in total in that year: 435,891 study, 286,071 work, 70,961 family and 59,401 other.

Irregular immigration — particularly small boats
This is a very different nationality profile.

There were 43,309 small-boat arrivals in the year ending June 2025.

The largest nationality was Afghanistan, accounting for about 15% (around 6,400 people).

The main nationalities claiming asylum overall were:

🇵🇰 Pakistan

🇦🇫 Afghanistan

🇮🇷 Iran

🇪🇷 Eritrea

🇧🇩 Bangladesh

Together these five accounted for 37% of all asylum claimants in the year ending June 2025.

Other significant nationalities among irregular/small-boat arrivals have included Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Vietnam, Sudan and Albania. The composition has changed considerably over time—for example, Albanian arrivals were particularly prominent in 2022 but had fallen substantially by 2025.

One important distinction
It isn't technically accurate to call everyone who arrives by small boat an “illegal immigrant.” Under UK law, a person can arrive without prior permission and then make an asylum claim, which is a legal process. The Home Office therefore calls these “irregular arrivals.” In the year to June 2025, about 95% of people arriving by small boat since 2018 had claimed asylum.

Also, not all asylum seekers entered irregularly: in the year to June 2025, 41,100 asylum claimants had previously entered on a visa or other form of leave.

If you'd like, I can also give you a single ranked table showing the top 20 countries of origin for (1) legal immigration and (2) asylum/irregular immigration in 2025, with actual numbers for each country.


what were the numbers from each country?

Yes. I should clarify one point from my previous answer: there isn't a single official figure for “legal immigrants by country”, because legal migration is recorded by route (work, study, family, humanitarian, etc.), and the same person can appear in different visa statistics. So the cleanest comparison is by visa grants and, separately, irregular/small-boat arrivals.

For the year ending June 2025, the official Home Office figures give the following.

Legal immigration — major visa categories


Study visas — main applicants

Country   Number
🇨🇳 China   99,919
🇮🇳 India   98,014
🇵🇰 Pakistan   37,013
🇳🇬 Nigeria   ~32,000
🇺🇸 United States   ~23,000

China and India alone accounted for almost half of all sponsored study visas.

Family visas

Country   Number
🇵🇰 Pakistan   9,647
🇮🇷 Iran   4,268
🇸🇾 Syria   3,808
🇦🇫 Afghanistan   2,569
🇺🇸 United States   2,802 partner visas
🇮🇳 India   2,629 partner visas

There were 70,961 family visas in total.

For work

The Home Office reports 182,553 work visas to main applicants across all work categories. The nationality breakdown is more complicated because it is split across Skilled Worker, Health & Care, Temporary Worker, Youth Mobility,

Small boat arrivals

There were 43,309 small-boat arrivals in the year ending June 2025.

Nationality   Arrivals
🇦🇫 Afghanistan   6,360
🇪🇷 Eritrea   5,975
🇮🇷 Iran   ~3,800
🇸🇾 Syria   ~3,100
🇸🇩 Sudan   ~2,800
🇦🇱 Albania   ~1,500

The five largest nationalities—Afghan, Eritrean, Iranian, Syrian and Sudanese—made up almost 60% of all small-boat arrivals.

It's a long way to travel for these small boat people. It's a hard and risky journey which people don't undertake at a whim.

A very informative post, personally I don't care if it upsets the universities business model, I don't want thousands coming, some of which are using the student visa as a back door to live and work in UK, didn't the government restrict students from bringing their entire extended families?

The argument goes that we need doctors and nurses for our NHS, but what they don't tell you is A) you're taking away the trained medical staff from poor countries to come to UK, B) The country has a cap on how many doctors & nurses are trained in the UK, so the reason there is a shortage is because the state wants the shortage.

We were told mass immigration would be wonderful for cultural enrichment, that the national GDP would rise, it might have risen, but not PER CAPITA, we are getting poorer. Millions must go.

[RandomGuy99]

A very informative post, personally I don't care if it upsets the universities business model, I don't want thousands coming, some of which are using the student visa as a back door to live and work in UK, didn't the government restrict students from bringing their entire extended families?

The argument goes that we need doctors and nurses for our NHS, but what they don't tell you is A) you're taking away the trained medical staff from poor countries to come to UK, B) The country has a cap on how many doctors & nurses are trained in the UK, so the reason there is a shortage is because the state wants the shortage.

We were told mass immigration would be wonderful for cultural enrichment, that the national GDP would rise, it might have risen, but not PER CAPITA, we are getting poorer. Millions must go.

Yes, they've now changed the rules so that students can't bring their dependents.

Gas chambers?