The Politics Thread

[RedKettle]

If I leave my house I lock my doors because I dont want unknown people coming into my house. If that makes me far right or a Nazi then so be it.

I do not agree with Bigden on this but at least he takes the time to understand the points and respond with rationale arguments. Nobody is saying that wanting to control migration makes you a Nazi but if you all sit there making your cheap and simplistic comments perhaps you will miss the real problem.  There is a pattern of behaviour behind populist politicians and influencers that is very dangerous and there are parallels with some dark periods in history.  That does not mean history will repeat but we should at least try and learn the lessons.

Frankly at the moment it seems more likely that they are simply trying to enrich themselves at the expense of their followers rather than any sinister plot for absolute power. Although everytime some muppet in America proves his loyalty by saying Trump really won the 2020 election it sends a shiver down my spine.

We could stop the boats easily with some political courage and co operation with other countries.  If UK and France announced that from September every migrant on a boat would be returned to France and we actually did that, which would be perfectly legal, the problem would be over by October.  You remove the incentive. In the long run it would help France as it would reduce migrants entering their country as a route to U.K.

Starmer tried it but the implementation was shit (there is a theme there) and the deal with France was not good enough.

[Punting2022]

I do not agree with Bigden on this but at least he takes the time to understand the points and respond with rationale arguments. Nobody is saying that wanting to control migration makes you a Nazi but if you all sit there making your cheap and simplistic comments perhaps you will miss the real problem.  There is a pattern of behaviour behind populist politicians and influencers that is very dangerous and there are parallels with some dark periods in history.  That does not mean history will repeat but we should at least try and learn the lessons.

Frankly at the moment it seems more likely that they are simply trying to enrich themselves at the expense of their followers rather than any sinister plot for absolute power. Although everytime some muppet in America proves his loyalty by saying Trump really won the 2020 election it sends a shiver down my spine.

We could stop the boats easily with some political courage and co operation with other countries.  If UK and France announced that from September every migrant on a boat would be returned to France and we actually did that, which would be perfectly legal, the problem would be over by October.  You remove the incentive. In the long run it would help France as it would reduce migrants entering their country as a route to U.K.

Starmer tried it but the implementation was shit (there is a theme there) and the deal with France was not good enough.

Remove the incentive yes. Sunak had it with rwanda. Labour scraped it.

Only way is to say all illigall migrants in detention centres. No hotels, you cant roam round raping. No benifits.

Once tbis detterent is there, they stop

[RedKettle]

Remove the incentive yes. Sunak had it with rwanda. Labour scraped it.

Only way is to say all illigall migrants in detention centres. No hotels, you cant roam round raping. No benifits.

Once tbis detterent is there, they stop

But it is not the only way, if you send them back you do not need hotels, detention centres etc etc.

[timsussex]

Remove the incentive yes. Sunak had it with rwanda. Labour scraped it.

Only way is to say all illigall migrants in detention centres. No hotels, you cant roam round raping. No benifits.

Once tbis detterent is there, they stop

and put the detention centres on an island in the Hebrides or Orkneys !

[DastardlyDick]

Badenoch seems to have made a major error of judgement letting this convicted Neo Nazi stand for election as a Tory candidate, is she really that short of options 

Most people would agree with the theory of giving people 2nd chances but then again public office does seem like it's a bit too far 

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He clearly didn't learn - jailed for 3 years in 2015 for posting anti semitic leaflets, and then for harassment of a Jewish MP in 2016.
Badenoch seems to have hired the same vetting company Farage did.

[bigden40]

The FBI told that they can no longer investigate ICE!?

Is that so?  There will be strong evidence of such a claim then?

[Blackpool Rock]

But it is not the only way, if you send them back you do not need hotels, detention centres etc etc.

Obviously the best solution is to stop illegal migrants from ever getting here in which case you then don't have to deal with the problem, as you're previous post said that should then also benefit France as 10's of 1000's of migrants wouldn't then enter France to get to the UK.

I wonder how many enter France with the intention of coming to the UK and then decide to stay in France  I have also previously posted this but have no idea if the logic has in fact been put to the French as a way to deal with the issue and gain better cooperation
But herein lies the problem in that you do indeed need cooperation with the French 

How hard is it to stop the boats 
I'd say it's probably impossible to stop 100% of them but i'd suggest with the right will and cooperation then you should be able to stop the vast majority of them but again it needs the French to do their part and not just bank the cash and then make weak gestures that hint of doing something.

People regularly drown trying to make the crossing and i'm sure that all political leaders would agree that this is unacceptable, the only sure way to avoid this is to stop people attempting to cross and i'd have thought that the French were legally liable under French / EU law if someone does drown 
It's quoted along the lines that they can stop boats if they think there is a danger to life however i'd say this actually applies to every boat so surely putting legal pressure on them is the best way to sort it out 

I previously suggested the swimming pigs idea (OK it was a joke) but surely these boats could all be punctured while they were only in a couple of feet of water waiting or just starting to load up with people, alternatively simply foul the motor / propeller with a piece of rope / net then tow it back to shore

All it needs is some out of the box thinking which is easy, oh and cooperation from the French which isn't 

[mh]

Badenoch seems to have made a major error of judgement letting this convicted Neo Nazi stand for election as a Tory candidate, is she really that short of options 

But the ex neo-nazi was willing to sign up to her anti-net zero pledge, so swings and roundabouts. 

Seriously, just like Johnson she has barred sensible people from standing so has to look to the fringe for candidates. Now she has used political capital to argue that it wasn't a terrible decision to have him as a candidate and then he has withdrawn his name anyway. He seems not to have apologised to the victims of his harassment, just said he has learned from the experience. Well that's great then, bully for him. Self inflicted wounds by Badenoch once again.

[RadioKid]

But the ex neo-nazi was willing to sign up to her anti-net zero pledge, so swings and roundabouts. 

Seriously, just like Johnson she has barred sensible people from standing so has to look to the fringe for candidates. Now she has used political capital to argue that it wasn't a terrible decision to have him as a candidate and then he has withdrawn his name anyway. He seems not to have apologised to the victims of his harassment, just said he has learned from the experience. Well that's great then, bully for him. Self inflicted wounds by Badenoch once again.

It's pretty clear with anyone with an ounce of intelligence she is a charlatan. Literal soundbites, populist anecdotes and ragebait content. There is very little in the way of substance, which is par for the course when it comes to Conservatives over the last 15 years.

[scutty brown]

He clearly didn't learn - jailed for 3 years in 2015 for posting anti semitic leaflets, and then for harassment of a Jewish MP in 2016.
Badenoch seems to have hired the same vetting company Farage did.

Does anyone else see the irony of someone named "Joshua" being found guilty of anti-semitism?

[DastardlyDick]

Does anyone else see the irony of someone named "Joshua" being found guilty of anti-semitism?

I did, but thought it best not to comment.aq

[RedKettle]

Is that so?  There will be strong evidence of such a claim then?

It has been reported on and I just checked with a google search and got confirnation. New York Times and NBC both cover it.

[mills_and_bhuna]

It has been reported on and I just checked with a google search and got confirnation. New York Times and NBC both cover it.

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[mills_and_bhuna]

Does anyone else see the irony of someone named "Joshua" being found guilty of anti-semitism?

I always find it interesting that the claims of 'antisemitic statements ' are never reported with what was actually said.
And given recent history of what has been claimed as antisemitism that leaves me a little suspicious.
Almost like we're being led by the nose.

[scutty brown]

I always find it interesting that the claims of 'antisemitic statements ' are never reported with what was actually said.
And given recent history of what has been claimed as antisemitism that leaves me a little suspicious.
Almost like we're being led by the nose.

I think in his case it may have been valid. Given some of the other crap he posts / posted on his website it looks like he can be fairly offensive to anyone that doesn't fit his politics.

[bigden40]

It has been reported on and I just checked with a google search and got confirnation. New York Times and NBC both cover it.

The article doesn’t substantiate the allegation you made.

Most of the other reporting refers to the NYT article, although CBS independently corroborated that internal emails discussed the FBI not investigating “assault ON federal officer” cases and having these investigated by a different branch of the DOJ instead (Homeland Security Investigations). 

Both DOJ and DHS have denied any change.

There is no corroborated report of a blanket “FBI will not investigate ICE” policy covering all misconduct or civil-rights probes.

[RedKettle]

You are great at pulling out your information but totally unable to join the dots and see the bigger picture

Things like this are not normal just like the legal action against the Olympian for the reflecting pool and countless other abuses of the legal system.

[bigden40]

BR joining dots for the right ….

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BR joining dots for the left …

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[bigden40]

BR joining dots for the right ….

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BR joining dots for the left …

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Edit: Oops, RK rather than BR, apologies to BR.

[RandomGuy99]

Now the US has limited weapon supplies

BBC News - Trump denies US weapons shortage and says information 'leakers' being 'hunted down'
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[DastardlyDick]

Now the US has limited weapon supplies

BBC News - Trump denies US weapons shortage and says information 'leakers' being 'hunted down'
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Having "plenty" of munitions is one thing, having the right sort of munitions is something else - thousands of howitzer shells can't replace a missile or smart bomb.

[Blackpool Rock]

Arrests of illegal migrant workers double in the last 2 years since Labour came to power, up 122% on the previous 2 years and a record number of raids and arrests in the last 6 months and a 50% rise in people being sent back top their home countries

So it's all good news then  Well not according to Reform who say the figures are rubbish as they were already going up before labour came to power, you'd have thought they'd be pleased about this  On the other hand if one of the parties actually get to grips with this issue and the small boats then they'd fail to have any reason to exist already having morphed from wanting out of the EU into what they are now 

While the job is far from complete it does yet again show that Labour are in fact doing something about it whereas if you listen to the Tories & Reform plus some commentators on here and on the news there's nothing being done and Labour are openly inviting people to come here and work illegally

What this does again show is that the last shitshow Tory Govt did the square root of fuck all and everything was either broken or close to breaking point when Labour inherited what can only be described in Rugby parlence as a hospital pass 

Thankfully things are going in the right direction and after all you have to start somewhere, this would have been started by Starmer but he's no longer in office so won't get the credit, i've said before that IMO Starmer was treated like shit by the public and his own party, hopefully history will paint him in a better light but that's decades away

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[RedKettle]

Arrests of illegal migrant workers double in the last 2 years since Labour came to power, up 122% on the previous 2 years and a record number of raids and arrests in the last 6 months and a 50% rise in people being sent back top their home countries

So it's all good news then  Well not according to Reform who say the figures are rubbish as they were already going up before labour came to power, you'd have thought they'd be pleased about this  On the other hand if one of the parties actually get to grips with this issue and the small boats then they'd fail to have any reason to exist already having morphed from wanting out of the EU into what they are now 

While the job is far from complete it does yet again show that Labour are in fact doing something about it whereas if you listen to the Tories & Reform plus some commentators on here and on the news there's nothing being done and Labour are openly inviting people to come here and work illegally

What this does again show is that the last shitshow Tory Govt did the square root of fuck all and everything was either broken or close to breaking point when Labour inherited what can only be described in Rugby parlence as a hospital pass 

Thankfully things are going in the right direction and after all you have to start somewhere, this would have been started by Starmer but he's no longer in office so won't get the credit, i've said before that IMO Starmer was treated like shit by the public and his own party, hopefully history will paint him in a better light but that's decades away

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I do agree with you but I would share some of the credit with the actions taken under Sunak at the end of the Tory government.  (I think we all need to be a tad less tribal on these things.)

But big picture it is getting better but those that depend on creating a cause will not admit that.  Like for example the completely ridiculous coverage of the the Ceuta "invasion" by the right wing media.   

[DastardlyDick]

A note of humour - even the Daleks are endorsing Bin Face now!
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[Squire Haggard]

With apologies. The DM is as low as I stoop. 

''The Ceuta crisis isn't over - it's only just begun: Politicians like Andy Burnham claim 98% of the migrants who invaded the Spanish enclave have left... but the truth is alarmingly different......

''Sanchez was the first politician to peddle the myth that 98 per cent of the 'invaders' had gone back across the border into Morocco.

This line was later parroted by Andy Burnham, who quoted Sanchez in a speech as he stood on the White Cliffs of Dover last week, before he, too, departed on holiday.

Nothing could be further from reality. This is a humanitarian disaster unfolding in real time, which also threatens the national security of Europe.

Spanish intelligence services say ISIS jihadis from across war-torn Africa have been caught among the tens of thousands who seized the chance to enter Ceuta.''

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[RedKettle]

With apologies. The DM is as low as I stoop. 

''The Ceuta crisis isn't over - it's only just begun: Politicians like Andy Burnham claim 98% of the migrants who invaded the Spanish enclave have left... but the truth is alarmingly different......

''Sanchez was the first politician to peddle the myth that 98 per cent of the 'invaders' had gone back across the border into Morocco.

This line was later parroted by Andy Burnham, who quoted Sanchez in a speech as he stood on the White Cliffs of Dover last week, before he, too, departed on holiday.

Nothing could be further from reality. This is a humanitarian disaster unfolding in real time, which also threatens the national security of Europe.

Spanish intelligence services say ISIS jihadis from across war-torn Africa have been caught among the tens of thousands who seized the chance to enter Ceuta.''

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Even that article says only 4000 still there, which is considerably less than a 60,000 invasion. And they are children, according to the DM. 

[webpunter]

I do agree with you but I would share some of the credit with the actions taken under Sunak at the end of the Tory government.  (I think we all need to be a tad less tribal on these things.)

Labour are ramping things up 
If they keep on going & somehow shed their wokey future voter brown recruitment policy vibe they could be onto a winner
Less tribal indeed between the political parties 
As long as the brown tide is getting reversed a step in right direction
Fuck em off outta the UK
No sane person one wants them here
Finally some positive stuff with labour

[Vice Admiral]

A note of humour - even the Daleks are endorsing Bin Face now!
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Tom Peck of the Times has been to Clacton to take the political temperature.  Here is an extract from his report in today's paper:

Paul Cross, 51, makes clear that he voted for Farage last time and he will do so again.

“I like him,” he says. “He’s the only one who gets it. I agree with what he’s trying to do. Apart from him, they’re all the same.”

I point out that they’re not quite all the same, given the rival candidate is a time-travelling space lord with a dustbin for a face.

“You lot think it’s hilarious, don’t you,” he says. “But we’re only having this election because the media have got it in for Nigel, and you won’t leave him alone.”

[DastardlyDick]

Tom Peck of the Times has been to Clacton to take the political temperature.  Here is an extract from his report in today's paper:

Paul Cross, 51, makes clear that he voted for Farage last time and he will do so again.

“I like him,” he says. “He’s the only one who gets it. I agree with what he’s trying to do. Apart from him, they’re all the same.”

I point out that they’re not quite all the same, given the rival candidate is a time-travelling space lord with a dustbin for a face.

“You lot think it’s hilarious, don’t you,” he says. “But we’re only having this election because the media have got it in for Nigel, and you won’t leave him alone.”

Found this on YT, also from The Times - one of them describes Farage as"God", another doesn't even know how long he's been their MP!
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[Blackpool Rock]

Found this on YT, also from The Times - one of them describes Farage as"God", another doesn't even know how long he's been their MP!
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Looks like the average IQ of Clacton is about the same as the number of candidates standing 

[Charliehutton]

Found this on YT, also from The Times - one of them describes Farage as"God", another doesn't even know how long he's been their MP!

I would suggest that most people have no idea who their MP is, never mind how long since they were elected. So perhaps that isn't as ridiculous as you would like to think.

[Charliehutton]

With apologies. The DM is as low as I stoop. 

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There's really no need to apologise for the Daily Mail. In the face of the most rigorous scrutiny in their recent court case against Prince Harry, and various other celebrities, they were found to have the most impeccable journalistic standards, unlike, for example, the BBC.

[DastardlyDick]

I would suggest that most people have no idea who their MP is, never mind how long since they were elected. So perhaps that isn't as ridiculous as you would like to think.

I know who my MP is, and that she was elected in 2024, so I do think it's ridiculous.

[Pat Phelan]

Im a newly joined restore Britain member.

Simple reason. I do not wish to see indigenous Brits become a minority before I’m an old man. We were never asked. Common sense politics. I love my own race and wish to see it preserved.

[scutty brown]

Im a newly joined restore Britain member.

Simple reason. I do not wish to see indigenous Brits become a minority before I’m an old man. We were never asked. Common sense politics. I love my own race and wish to see it preserved.

Is that why you've got an Irish name as your logon?

[Pat Phelan]

Is that why you've got an Irish name as your logon?

I’m a duel Irish British citizen

[Jerboa]

Is that why you've got an Irish name as your logon?

You thought that was a flex? Many People in Britain have Irish family backgrounds. 

[RedKettle]

You thought that was a flex? Many People in Britain have Irish family backgrounds. 

You are totally missing the point he was making.

[scutty brown]

You thought that was a flex? Many People in Britain have Irish family backgrounds. 

So that makes them immigrants. Foreigners.

[Punting2022]

Im a newly joined restore Britain member.

Simple reason. I do not wish to see indigenous Brits become a minority before I’m an old man. We were never asked. Common sense politics. I love my own race and wish to see it preserved.

Good lad. Stick with labour sharia law is incoming. Labour only favour islam

[Jerboa]

So that makes them immigrants. Foreigners.

Unless you are a extreme ethno nationalist, who thinks they have pure Anglo-Saxon blood going back to the 5th century, most nationalist don't consider Britons of Irish decent foreigners. In fact British & Irish nationalists are starting to see they have been manipulated by divide and conquer, and that they have a lot in common.

[DastardlyDick]

So that makes them immigrants. Foreigners.

The original (as far as we know) inhabitants of what is now England, Scotland and Wales were Celtic tribes, they were around until the High Middle Ages having been replaced by people descended from Angles from Southern Denmark, Jutes from Northern Denmark and Saxons from what is now the Netherlands and Northern Germany. The Romans added to the mix, then the Normans, who were descended from Viking raiders originally from Norway, Norman being derived from "Northmen".
Now who's a "foreigner"?

[Jerboa]

The original (as far as we know) inhabitants of what is now England, Scotland and Wales were Celtic tribes, they were around until the High Middle Ages having been replaced by people descended from Angles from Southern Denmark, Jutes from Northern Denmark and Saxons from what is now the Netherlands and Northern Germany. The Romans added to the mix, then the Normans, who were descended from Viking raiders originally from Norway, Norman being derived from "Northmen".
Now who's a "foreigner"?

The Anglo-Saxons obviously settled in England, but limited settling in Wales & Scotland, in Scotland especially north of the central belt the ethnic mix is still predominately Celtic Scots, Pict with some Scandinavian.