Author Topic: The Politics Thread  (Read 857914 times)

Offline Blackpool Rock

The Times is reporting that Burnham wanted the changeover of power to happen in September just before the conference but Starmer - in what is described as a small act of rebellion - told him that if he is doing such a bad job then he is leaving ASAP

Whether that leads to a few more junior ministers keeping their jobs we shall have to wait and see but commentators all seem to think Reeves is toast
I don't blame him one bit, IMO he's been shat on by the party and it's Burnham that's pulled the trigger, who would stick around for any longer than they had to  :unknown:

Online timsussex

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nice quote from BBCs Chris Mason about how last week Burnham  is unemployed this week he's an MP and next month he's PM

"And remember he's run for the Labour leadership twice before and lost," one minister pointed out to me, adding: "And not only that. He lost to two losers – Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn."

Offline Vice Admiral

Having seen clips last night of the upstart Burnham''s triumphal arrival in London, I have to concede that he has a pleasing personality, and indeed seems to be a fully paid-up member of the human race – which is not something that could be said of many Prime Ministers of the last 20 years.

That may give the government – and indeed the nation – a short-term (or possibly even a longer-term) boost.

However the underlying problems identified on this thread by me and others remain.  In simple terms, if Burnham panders to the left, the economy will go from bad to worse; if he does "sensible" things, much of his party will turn against him.

On Sky News yesterday evening John Rentoul of the Independent was uncompromising in his view.  He said Labour was "away with the fairies".  The only prominent figure in the party he seemed to respect was Wes Streeting, because of his realistic, rational, centrist position.

Offline Blackpool Rock

nice quote from BBCs Chris Mason about how last week Burnham  is unemployed this week he's an MP and next month he's PM

"And remember he's run for the Labour leadership twice before and lost," one minister pointed out to me, adding: "And not only that. He lost to two losers – Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn."
As they say a week is a long time in politics so a decade or more is like an ice age  :D

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The Times is reporting that Burnham wanted the changeover of power to happen in September just before the conference but Starmer - in what is described as a small act of rebellion - told him that if he is doing such a bad job then he is leaving ASAP
...

and now reports are that Burnham's people are desperate seeking someone to stand against him - thus delaying the "coronation" until he is ready !
That should do the pound and the markets the power of good - a lame duck PM for 2 months

Online bigden40

nice quote from BBCs Chris Mason about how last week Burnham  is unemployed this week he's an MP and next month he's PM

"And remember he's run for the Labour leadership twice before and lost," one minister pointed out to me, adding: "And not only that. He lost to two losers – Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn."

The first part is untrue.  He wasn’t unemployed last week, he was Mayor of Greater Manchester until his election as an MP.  If he had lost the Makerfield By-Election he would still be Mayor.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2026, 10:46:38 am by bigden40 »

Offline Vice Admiral

and now reports are that Burnham's people are desperate seeking someone to stand against him - thus delaying the "coronation" until he is ready !
That should do the pound and the markets the power of good - a lame duck PM for 2 months

There's a very interesting article by William Hague in today's Times whose theme is summarised in its title, “Andy Burnham will be a better PM without a contest” and sub-title, “A party election to choose a new leader is more likely to hobble than empower him — he needs a totally clean slate”.

Hague’s point is persuasive – namely that the advantage Burnham has in having so far given little indication of what he would do in office would be undermined by the specific policies he would have to come up with during a leadership election.

To this the Vice Admiral would add the following personal message to Burnham – in the confidence that the UKP Politics Thread is regularly read, if not by Burnham himself, then certainly by members of his team.
_______________________

Dear Andy

First I must apologise for having frequently called you an upstart.  Now that you’re about to become Prime Minister, I can see that you have all the qualities a leader needs.  Rachel Reeves feels the same.

Now, here’s my advice.

For the next three years you will be the most powerful Prime Minister since Tony Blair.  You have a large majority, and no-one is going to try to get rid of you.  Even if you seduce the scullery maids at Downing Street.

So, shake off all the leftie nonsense.  Be bold and brave.  Do things so “right-wing” that only a Labour Prime Minister could get away with them.  OK, a lot of your wet-behind-the-ears MPs will grumble, but fuck ‘em.

You will have saved the country, and, who knows, you might even win the 2029 General Election.

Yours sincerely

Vice Admiral (your new No. 1 Fan)

« Last Edit: June 23, 2026, 01:09:53 pm by Vice Admiral »

Online Jerboa

New released footage of Two Tier's resignation speech yesterday.  :lol:
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Online bigden40

There's a very interesting article by William Hague in today's Times whose theme is summarised in its title, “Andy Burnham will be a better PM without a contest” and sub-title, “A party election to choose a new leader is more likely to hobble than empower him — he needs a totally clean slate”.

Hague’s point is persuasive – namely that the advantage Burnham has in having so far given little indication of what he would do in office would be undermined by the specific policies he would have to come up with during a leadership election.

To this the Vice Admiral would add the following personal message to Burnham – in the confidence that the UKP Politics Thread is regularly read, if not by Burnham himself, then certainly by members of his team.
_______________________

Dear Andy

First I must apologise for having frequently called you an upstart.  Now that you’re about to become Prime Minister, I can see that you have all the qualities a leader needs.  Rachel Reeves feels the same.

Now, here’s my advice.

For the next three years you will be the most powerful Prime Minister since Tony Blair.  You have a large majority, and no-one is going to try to get rid of you.  Even if you seduce the scullery maids at Downing Street.

So, shake off all the leftie nonsense.  Be bold and brave.  Do things so “right-wing” that only a Labour Prime Minister could get away with them.  OK, a lot of your wet-behind-the-ears MPs will grumble, but fuck ‘em.

You will have saved the country, and, who knows, you might even win the 2029 General Election.

Yours sincerely

Vice Admiral (your new No. 1 Fan)

I think you should sit down, the heat seems to be getting to you.

Offline Squire Haggard

New released footage of Two Tier's resignation speech yesterday.  :lol:
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The live broadcast was funny too. The ''Ode to Joy'' was playing loudly, for most of his speech, outside the Downing Street gates.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

The first part is untrue.  He wasn’t unemployed last week, he was Mayor of Greater Manchester until his election as an MP.  If he had lost the Makerfield By-Election he would still be Mayor.
that quote says more about Chris Mason and the mindset of Londoncentric media than it does about Andy Burnham

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Online suppliers like Temu & others unless i'm mistaken are allowed incredibly cheap postage on Royal Mail.  UK suppliers at a disadvantage

Lets not give the Indians a hard time
OK there was one attack by a Sikh ... Digwa
There's always gonna be a rogue individual

We must give Sikhs & Hindus some credit
They detest the Mislamics more than we do

A mate of mine is married to an Indian burd [i really must ask him if she has a gold chain around her waist if so good girl  :hi:]
He was socializing with her, her indian mates & another british bloke
Him & the british bloke didn;t know where to put themselves they were proppa going for it
The Indians make the British look quite pleasant towards the Mislamics

Even when they bomb targets like young kids at a concert in Manchester
Why not try taking on the british army see how far you get
The mislamics in afghan provide a target rich environment

Even the SAS attack dogs get in on the act
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After a very successful mission apparently the dog trotted back very pleased with itself carrying a piece of mislamic throat
I do hope the handlers gave the dog some preventative jabs no wonder what the terrorists were carrying  :scare:


The Indians know better than we do as to what the Mislamics can be really like
Good night at the Dog and Duck?

Offline Thephoenix

The live broadcast was funny too. The ''Ode to Joy'' was playing loudly, for most of his speech, outside the Downing Street gates.

Tbh I didn't find it funny at all.

Is that really acceptable behaviour when our prime minister is giving an important speech to the nation.

No way would that have been tolerated years ago.

I believe in such important matters of state some decorum is required.


Offline Blackpool Rock

and now reports are that Burnham's people are desperate seeking someone to stand against him - thus delaying the "coronation" until he is ready !
That should do the pound and the markets the power of good - a lame duck PM for 2 months
In fairness Parliament goes into it's summer recess in 3 and a bit weeks on July 17th until the end of Aug anyway

Online WASA38

The live broadcast was funny too. The ''Ode to Joy'' was playing loudly, for most of his speech, outside the Downing Street gates.

Not as funny as at BJ's departure speech when the same guy played the theme music frm the Bennie Hill show.

Very apt.

Offline juzz

And played D:Ream's 'Things can only get better' when Rishi Sunak departed.

I agree with The Phoenix. It's just crass. It shows no respect to the PM or those members of the public who want to listen.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:28:13 am by juzz »

Online WASA38

Not as funny as at BJ's departure speech when the same guy played the theme music frm the Bennie Hill show.

Very apt.

But that said, I wholeheartedly agree wth Phoenix too.

Offline Vice Admiral

Continuing the – part-serious, part-ironic – recalibration of my position on Andy Burnham, I was heartened to learn from a somewhat hagiographic article in yesterday Times by his old English tutor at Fitzwiliam College, Cambridge that Burnham's degree was in English Literature.  It makes a change from the usual PPE (Cameron, Truss) or Law (Blair, Starmer).

Burnham’s favourite novel is seemingly the weighty Middlemarch – which I had to do for ‘A’ level, and is the book above all books that one is glad to have read but never wants to read again.

His old tutor, John Mullan, now professor of modern English literature at University College London, says that Burnham’s (Dutch) wife Marie-France van Heel “was the coolest girl in the college and, when Andy became her official boyfriend, there was some surprise and a feeling that he had scooped the pools”.

In her third year at Cambridge – after Burnham had graduated – Frankie van Heel went on ITV’s Blind Date.  (Insert your own joke here.)

Meanwhile, according to Mullan, “Andy was a footie lad in a college with lots of footie lads.  It is hard not to see him in the Everton shirt he often wore, enjoying post-match beers in the college bar with the boys.”

So, as I said yesterday, Burnham does appear to be a fully paid-up member of the human race.

But of course that doesn’t mean he will necessarily be a good Prime Minister...

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:22:31 am by Vice Admiral »

Online bigden40

Well just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse there are reports that Burnham is tapping up Gary Stephenson (Gary's economics) as an advisor.   



Offline Blackpool Rock


Offline Squire Haggard

Not as funny as at BJ's departure speech when the same guy played the theme music frm the Bennie Hill show.

Very apt.
I had forgotten about that. Maybe it will become a tradition in future.  :)

I dont think that Starmer will be too bothered. He should be able to afford to spend his retirement in a big house, then add a rooftop Berghof like Gordon Brown's in the link below.

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Offline Vice Admiral

According to a piece by Alice Thomson in today’s Times, Pyla Lara Bird-Leakey, the new SNP MP for Arbroath & Broughty Ferry, crossed her fingers when asked to pledge her allegiance to the King during her swearing-in ceremony in the House of Commons.

Perhaps she’s unaware that the SNP’s official policy is to retain the British monarch as the head of state in an independent Scotland?

Wee Lara's only in her late twenties, so maybe she should be cut some slack for behaving like a silly schoolgirl – but, if it were up to me, she'd be put in the Tower of London on bread and water for a week.

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:18:20 pm by Vice Admiral »

Online bigden40

According to a piece by Alice Thomson in today’s Times, Pyla Lara Bird-Leakey, the new SNP MP for Arbroath & Broughty Ferry, crossed her fingers when asked to pledge her allegiance to the King during her swearing-in ceremony in the House of Commons.

Perhaps she’s unaware that the SNP’s official policy is to retain the British monarch as the head of state in an independent Scotland?

Wee Lara's only in her late twenties, so maybe she should be cut some slack for behaving like a silly schoolgirl – but, if it were up to me, she'd be put in the Tower of London on bread and water for a week.

Honestly, who cares?  The Times shouldn’t give the time of day to a meaningless gesture based on childish superstition.  Crossing your fingers whilst swearing an oath has zero legal significance. 

Online RedKettle

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Well just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse there are reports that Burnham is tapping up Gary Stephenson (Gary's economics) as an advisor.

He has some interesting things to say especially around his time as a trader and also to be fair about inequality. But then it seems to be a decent analysis of the issues (if you are to the left) but a crazy solution. He is bright but seems to be economically illiterate. But because he is passionate and intelligent, and comes over as one of the lads, he is given a credibility that he is far from deserving.



Online bigden40

He has some interesting things to say especially around his time as a trader and also to be fair about inequality. But then it seems to be a decent analysis of the issues (if you are to the left) but a crazy solution. He is bright but seems to be economically illiterate. But because he is passionate and intelligent, and comes over as one of the lads, he is given a credibility that he is far from deserving.

It seems we agree. 

He is bright and articulate, which gives him more airtime than his ideas deserve.  I have no issue with him being left leaning, but wealth taxes to address income inequality just doesn’t work. 


Offline mills_and_bhuna

According to a piece by Alice Thomson in today’s Times, Pyla Lara Bird-Leakey, the new SNP MP for Arbroath & Broughty Ferry, crossed her fingers when asked to pledge her allegiance to the King during her swearing-in ceremony in the House of Commons.

Perhaps she’s unaware that the SNP’s official policy is to retain the British monarch as the head of state in an independent Scotland?

Wee Lara's only in her late twenties, so maybe she should be cut some slack for behaving like a silly schoolgirl – but, if it were up to me, she'd be put in the Tower of London on bread and water for a week.
just as well it isn't up to you then.........

Online Jerboa

According to a piece by Alice Thomson in today’s Times, Pyla Lara Bird-Leakey, the new SNP MP for Arbroath & Broughty Ferry, crossed her fingers when asked to pledge her allegiance to the King during her swearing-in ceremony in the House of Commons.

Perhaps she’s unaware that the SNP’s official policy is to retain the British monarch as the head of state in an independent Scotland?

Wee Lara's only in her late twenties, so maybe she should be cut some slack for behaving like a silly schoolgirl – but, if it were up to me, she'd be put in the Tower of London on bread and water for a week.

She needs to take the oath correctly, or be barred from sitting. She is also putting on a fake Scottish accent, she is from the privileged Leakey family, and speaks with a posh English accent normally.  :P
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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:59:24 pm by Jerboa »

Online Charliehutton

Apparently Burnham wants to instal his long standing ally Lucy Powell as his Deputy Prime Minister.

This is the woman who dismissed scrutiny of the Pakistani rape gang scandal as 'dog whistle politics'.

 :dash:

Online Jerboa

Apparently Burnham wants to instal his long standing ally Lucy Powell as his Deputy Prime Minister.

This is the woman who dismissed scrutiny of the Pakistani rape gang scandal as 'dog whistle politics'.

 :dash:

She's in good company, Burnham did a cover up in Manchester.

Offline Vice Admiral

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Shameful and embarrassing.  The only dignified thing would have been for Rachel Reeves to say nothing.

I thought that yesterday in the House of Commons Kemi Badenoch rather overdid putting the boot into various Labour figures – the Speaker thought so too! – but she was right to point out that Starmer's loyal Chancellor was absent from his farewell speech outside 10 Downing Street but present for the King of the North's love-in on his arrival in London.

Online bigden40

So Trump was asked about Burnham

“I don’t know anything. I see that he was, I guess, the mayor of a town. I hear he is extremely liberal, extremely. So that means he probably won’t open up the North Sea.”

Problem is that for many people in the UK, Trump is such a bete noire that his views are automatically discounted and inverted, even when he is 100% correct, as he is about us making use of the North Sea, among other things.   

Meanwhile, Militwat has been up to his usual crap - despite gas power stations needing to be fired up on the hottest day of the year.



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Online bigden40

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Shameful and embarrassing.  The only dignified thing would have been for Rachel Reeves to say nothing.

I thought that yesterday in the House of Commons Kemi Badenoch rather overdid putting the boot into various Labour figures – the Speaker thought so too! – but she was right to point out that Starmer's loyal Chancellor was absent from his farewell speech outside 10 Downing Street but present for the King of the North's love-in on his arrival in London.

I fully support Andy as PM …..



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Online bigden40

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Shameful and embarrassing.  The only dignified thing would have been for Rachel Reeves to say nothing.

I thought that yesterday in the House of Commons Kemi Badenoch rather overdid putting the boot into various Labour figures – the Speaker thought so too! – but she was right to point out that Starmer's loyal Chancellor was absent from his farewell speech outside 10 Downing Street but present for the King of the North's love-in on his arrival in London.

I specifically like Kemi's description of Phillipson as a “spiteful class warrior” in addition to going after her incompetence

Was funny to see Kendall and Phillipson complaining about the language when we previously witnessed years of sneers and insults from their side of the aisle.  Classic “can dish it but can’t take it” behaviour. 

Offline Vice Admiral

Occasionally Kemi goes a bit over the top, but I think she's turning out to be just the leader the Tories needed.  They're well rid of the oleaginous and duplicitous Jenrick.

Those who care for the political health of Britain should be praying for the return of a strong Conservative party and a strong Labour party – and, indeed, of two-party politics – and for the rabble-rousers Farage and Polanski to disappear back into the undergrowth whence they came. 

« Last Edit: Today at 09:15:49 am by Vice Admiral »

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Occasionally Kemi goes a bit over the top, but I think she's turning out to be just the leader the Tories needed.  They're well rid of the oleaginous and duplicitous Jenrick.

Those who care for the political health of Britain should be praying for the return of a strong Conservative party and a strong Labour party – and, indeed, of two-party politics – and for the rabble-rousers Farage and Polanski to disappear back into the undergrowth whence they came.
:lol: :lol: :lol:sure. Just what we need . Two parties . Neither of whom are popular. And with good reason. Great fucking idea.

Online Jerboa

Occasionally Kemi goes a bit over the top, but I think she's turning out to be just the leader the Tories needed.  They're well rid of the oleaginous and duplicitous Jenrick.

Those who care for the political health of Britain should be praying for the return of a strong Conservative party and a strong Labour party – and, indeed, of two-party politics – and for the rabble-rousers Farage and Polanski to disappear back into the undergrowth whence they came.

The two parties who have fucked the country up since 1945? The Tories & Labour parties are dead, they just haven't got the message yet.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

The two parties who have fucked the country up since 1945? The Tories & Labour parties are dead, they just haven't got the message yet.
They'll be back.
Once the establishment has worked out how to wrest back control from the voters without being too obvious..
« Last Edit: Today at 12:00:35 pm by mills_and_bhuna »

Offline Vice Admiral

In today's Times there's a contribution from the always-impressive Max Hastings to the "Will Andy Burnham by any good as Prime Minister?" debate.

These three paragraphs are particularly germane:

We do not need to become as nasty as Trump’s America to become economically successful but we must make ourselves nastier than we are now. Every decent society displays compassion towards its weak and vulnerable. Under all parties in Britain, however, government policy, epitomised by the Cameron coalition’s 2011 pensions triple lock, has for years been excessively tilted in favour of passengers at the expense of workhorses, and Andy Burnham now threatens to make it more so.

He promises to reverse 40 years of Thatcherism, to attack inequality and expand the role of the state. Such propositions invite us to decide whether he is a liar or a fool. He may be trailing this agenda merely to secure the support of the left before the leadership coronation, intending to forget it later, which would make him a liar. Or he may really believe these are Britain’s foremost priorities, in which case he is a fool.

The entire thinking part of the country understands that welfarism is out of control, that the other big threats to our prosperity are expensive energy, inactive young people, excessive taxation and the legacy of Brexit.

Online bigden40

In today's Times there's a contribution from the always-impressive Max Hastings to the "Will Andy Burnham by any good as Prime Minister?" debate.

These three paragraphs are particularly germane:

We do not need to become as nasty as Trump’s America to become economically successful but we must make ourselves nastier than we are now. Every decent society displays compassion towards its weak and vulnerable. Under all parties in Britain, however, government policy, epitomised by the Cameron coalition’s 2011 pensions triple lock, has for years been excessively tilted in favour of passengers at the expense of workhorses, and Andy Burnham now threatens to make it more so.

He promises to reverse 40 years of Thatcherism, to attack inequality and expand the role of the state. Such propositions invite us to decide whether he is a liar or a fool. He may be trailing this agenda merely to secure the support of the left before the leadership coronation, intending to forget it later, which would make him a liar. Or he may really believe these are Britain’s foremost priorities, in which case he is a fool.

The entire thinking part of the country understands that welfarism is out of control, that the other big threats to our prosperity are expensive energy, inactive young people, excessive taxation and the legacy of Brexit.


Anyone talking about 40 years of Thatcherism is already identifying themselves as a numpty.


Online Jerboa

In today's Times there's a contribution from the always-impressive Max Hastings to the "Will Andy Burnham by any good as Prime Minister?" debate.

These three paragraphs are particularly germane:

We do not need to become as nasty as Trump’s America to become economically successful but we must make ourselves nastier than we are now. Every decent society displays compassion towards its weak and vulnerable. Under all parties in Britain, however, government policy, epitomised by the Cameron coalition’s 2011 pensions triple lock, has for years been excessively tilted in favour of passengers at the expense of workhorses, and Andy Burnham now threatens to make it more so.

He promises to reverse 40 years of Thatcherism, to attack inequality and expand the role of the state. Such propositions invite us to decide whether he is a liar or a fool. He may be trailing this agenda merely to secure the support of the left before the leadership coronation, intending to forget it later, which would make him a liar. Or he may really believe these are Britain’s foremost priorities, in which case he is a fool.

The entire thinking part of the country understands that welfarism is out of control, that the other big threats to our prosperity are expensive energy, inactive young people, excessive taxation and the legacy of Brexit.


When the country is spending nearly as much on welfare than it's tax income, there is a problem. Labour refused to cut welfare to spend more on defence, the 0.08% increase in defence is laughable.

Offline Squire Haggard

I wonder what Burnham will do to ''smash the gangs stop the boats''?  Will he be like the last three PMs and do next to nothing?

24 dinghies in the last 6 days including yesterday.

1636 people in total

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Offline Vice Admiral

Anyone talking about 40 years of Thatcherism is already identifying themselves as a numpty.

I didn’t really focus properly on that bit.

For an imminent Prime Minister in 2026 to be contrasting his policies with those of Margaret Thatcher – who left office over 35 years ago – and implying that all her successors (Blair and Brown among them) were in effect slaves to the same flawed creed is indeed numptiness of a very high order.  It's little more than student politics, because even now young lefties jump around in furious excitement whenever the demon Thatcher's name is mentioned.  (As for me, I’m still hopping mad about Sir Robert Peel repealing the corn laws in 1846.)

It is, of course, also fair to point that Burnham himself served happily in Gordon Brown's "Thatcherite" cabinet for three years, between 2007 and 2010.

Perhaps the usurper Burnham will read what many heads much wiser than his are saying, and govern accordingly when the time comes.  But I’m not betting on that outcome.

I'd rather put my money on Shaihaan, the 100/1 outsider, in the Irish Derby on Sunday.

Offline finn5555

I wonder what Burnham will do to ''smash the gangs stop the boats''?  Will he be like the last three PMs and do next to nothing?

24 dinghies in the last 6 days including yesterday.

1636 people in total

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Doesn't matter who is in power we will continue to have an influx of boats coming over, with France's blessing of course they are happy to see them leave  :rolleyes:

unless we rewrite:

Human rights act
British, European, international and maritime law

Since Britain's departure from the European Union the Europeans basically tell us to fuck off  :cool: :cool:








Online bigden40

Doesn't matter who is in power we will continue to have an influx of boats coming over, with France's blessing of course they are happy to see them leave  :rolleyes:

unless we rewrite:

Human rights act
British, European, international and maritime law

Since Britain's departure from the European Union the Europeans basically tell us to fuck off  :cool: :cool:

There are real legislative challenges but the primary issue is political will.

We can and should leave the European Convention on Human Rights.  This is a political choice.  We should also have greater investment in detention and processing facilities, so that we can stop releasing illegal migrants into hotels, HMOs, etc at great expense, losing track of them, failing to disincentivise entry. 

We could legislate for mandatory irrebuttable presumption that certain countries are safe, removing grounds for appeal, and expand “deport first, appeal later”.

Harder, politically, would be to negotiate a Dublin-equivalent arrangement.  The loss of which was the direct consequence of Brexit.

The government frames a lot of this as a legal problem, because it’s convenient for them to do so, it externalises the problem. But there are clear measures that government should take that would make a significant difference. 

Beyond that we also do need to do something about the (NGO funded) legal services ecosystem that has sprung up around immigration - much of which is funded by us, the UK taxpayer, through legal aid.

Online RedKettle

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The two parties who have fucked the country up since 1945? The Tories & Labour parties are dead, they just haven't got the message yet.

Funny how people who wrap themselves in the flag (when it suits) are so negative about the country - if you think it is so fucked up then I suggest, respectfully, that you fuck off to Russia and live worshipping your idol Putin.

Some of us still love our country.

Online Jerboa

Funny how people who wrap themselves in the flag (when it suits) are so negative about the country - if you think it is so fucked up then I suggest, respectfully, that you fuck off to Russia and live worshipping your idol Putin.

Some of us still love our country.

If you think the duel party system of the last 75 years has been a success for Britain, I would suggest you go take your medicine.  :wacko:

Online Zimbaman

If you think the duel party system of the last 75 years has been a success for Britain, I would suggest you go take your medicine.  :wacko:

It’s pretty much kept the extremists on the fringes where they belong… I’d call that a success  :hi: