Author Topic: The Politics Thread  (Read 761005 times)

Offline Doc Holliday

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You understand my point right? the US would not stand for a foreign power using Mexico as a proxy against the US, so why wouldn't Russia have the same issue?

Apologies trying to multi task here at home and failing! Calling it a day for now  :hi:

Offline Massagemanmr

You understand my point right? the US would not stand for a foreign power using Mexico as a proxy against the US, so why wouldn't Russia have the same issue?
I grasp the point and it makes total sense , you can try the Cuban missile Crisis he should be able to grasp this

Offline Squire Haggard

You do understand none of these national servicemen go to the SMO right? They do their 12 months service in Russia, they can volunteer after their service to be a contract soldier.

I think the first draft was in 2023, and it was a shock to Russians. There were big queues of cars at the borders trying to leave the country. if any are forced to the front line I wonder if the Russians would admit it? :unknown:

Offline Massagemanmr

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Israel getting absolutely hammered by FPV drones


Offline finn5555

I think the first draft was in 2023, and it was a shock to Russians. There were big queues of cars at the borders trying to leave the country. if any are forced to the front line I wonder if the Russians would admit it? :unknown:

Can hardly blame them really nobody in their right mind would fancy going into war

Offline Jerboa

I think the first draft was in 2023, and it was a shock to Russians. There were big queues of cars at the borders trying to leave the country. if any are forced to the front line I wonder if the Russians would admit it? :unknown:

When you say draft, do you mean the Russian mobilisation of reservists? Or do you mean the normal military draft that takes place every year. But you understand, none of the young people who fled Russia in 2022, were mobilised in September 2022, it was only for trained reservists. The young who left were mostly pro western middle class who believed the fear porn, that they were to be sent to Ukraine, many have returned to Russia when they learnt that the grass is not as green on the other side.

Offline Squire Haggard

Can hardly blame them really nobody in their right mind would fancy going into war

Exactly.

Looking at the footage, I dont know they can get anyone to go to the front line.

Offline Squire Haggard

When you say draft, do you mean the Russian mobilisation of reservists? Or do you mean the normal military draft that takes place every year. But you understand, none of the young people who fled Russia in 2022, were mobilised in September 2022, it was only for trained reservists. The young who left were mostly pro western middle class who believed the fear porn, that they were to be sent to Ukraine, many have returned to Russia when they learnt that the grass is not as green on the other side.
I dont know the fine details of what happens over a long length of time after they are conscripted.

Even if volunteers are very highly paid, many seem to be going on near suicide missions to the front line. It makes me think how anyone could volunteer for almost suicidal missions on the front line. What about the barrier troops to stop them going back to their lines?

Offline finn5555

Exactly.

Looking at the footage, I dont know they can get anyone to go to the front line.

I am seeing a Ukrainian woman I have now known for 2 years and she still has family over there and although daily life seems to go on there is a fear in the male population (under 25) of being drafted into the war

Offline Squire Haggard

I am seeing a Ukrainian woman I have now known for 2 years and she still has family over there and although daily life seems to go on there is a fear in the male population (under 25) of being drafted into the war
I'm not surprised at the fear.

The sooner they start proper peace talks the better.


Offline RedKettle

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When you say draft, do you mean the Russian mobilisation of reservists? Or do you mean the normal military draft that takes place every year. But you understand, none of the young people who fled Russia in 2022, were mobilised in September 2022, it was only for trained reservists. The young who left were mostly pro western middle class who believed the fear porn, that they were to be sent to Ukraine, many have returned to Russia when they learnt that the grass is not as green on the other side.

Another one on here who spouts crap as if they are an expert on Russia.  All the others have soon proved they actually know nothing about life over there and I fully expect you to join that group. 

Offline Jerboa

I dont know the fine details of what happens over a long length of time after they are conscripted.

Even if volunteers are very highly paid, many seem to be going on near suicide missions to the front line. It makes me think how anyone could volunteer for almost suicidal missions on the front line. What about the barrier troops to stop them going back to their lines?

There is two types of military service in Russia, the professional contract soldier that signs up for service for a number of years. Then there is the conscript service of 12 months, that every 18-30 year old male is legally meant to serve, unless they have a good reason. The latter group are banned from taking part in the SMO, they serve in military unit throughout the Russian federation.

You say suicide missions, yes some of the footage is terrible, it is a trope that Russia is like WW2 Red army, and is recklessly throwing away the lives of it's troops, if this was the case, Russia would be on the Dniper and in Odessa already, one of the reasons that this war has gone on for 4 years, is that the Donbass defensive fortress lines had been built up since 2015 by Ukraine, and Russia rather than doing a frontal assault (which western media says they do) have instead slowly but methodically ground down Ukrainian defences, and disrupted logistics and reinforcements to the front. Barrier troops, not heard of Russia using them tbf, but I have heard reports that Ukraine employs them, they are usually from units of nationalists that are extremely idealogical.

If you want to get a understanding of what is going on in the battlefield watch the Military Summary channel External Link/Members Only he updates daily.

Offline Jerboa

Another one on here who spouts crap as if they are an expert on Russia.  All the others have soon proved they actually know nothing about life over there and I fully expect you to join that group.

When you talk about spouting crap, do you ever look in the mirror?  :D What exactly in my post was incorrect or false?  :rolleyes:

Offline finn5555

Another one on here who spouts crap as if they are an expert on Russia.  All the others have soon proved they actually know nothing about life over there and I fully expect you to join that group.

Pop him on ignore, best thing i did and the best place for his ilk  :hi:

Offline Jerboa

Pop him on ignore, best thing i did and the best place for his ilk  :hi:

Oh I'm so gutted though, my ilk really? Because you have no argument Finny boy.

Offline scutty brown

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Another one on here who spouts crap as if they are an expert on Russia.  All the others have soon proved they actually know nothing about life over there and I fully expect you to join that group.

No point debating with Jerboa. Just about everything he posts is now a lie and he's  too damned thick to realise we all know. He just keeps repeating the pro-Russian diatribe in the hope that if he repeats it often enough it'll become true. Of course it won't, except in his distorted mind.
By answering him you're giving him the chance to validate his false tales with even further lies. Falsehood upon falsehood upon falsehood. If you trying arguing with him he'll draw you further and further into the Russian web of lies to the point where black=white and 2+2=5.
He's just another Putin arselicker.

Offline finn5555

No point debating with Jerboa. Just about everything he posts is now a lie and he's  too damned thick to realise we all know. He just keeps repeating the pro-Russian diatribe in the hope that if he repeats it often enough it'll become true. Of course it won't, except in his distorted mind.
By answering him you're giving him the chance to validate his false tales with even further lies. Falsehood upon falsehood upon falsehood. If you trying arguing with him he'll draw you further and further into the Russian web of lies to the point where black=white and 2+2=5.
He's just another Putin arselicker.
Maybe he is Russian and was drafted  :rolleyes: he has been indoctrinated into their beliefs and tries to imbue others now  :crazy: :crazy:

Offline Jerboa

No point debating with Jerboa. Just about everything he posts is now a lie and he's  too damned thick to realise we all know. He just keeps repeating the pro-Russian diatribe in the hope that if he repeats it often enough it'll become true. Of course it won't, except in his distorted mind.
By answering him you're giving him the chance to validate his false tales with even further lies. Falsehood upon falsehood upon falsehood. If you trying arguing with him he'll draw you further and further into the Russian web of lies to the point where black=white and 2+2=5.
He's just another Putin arselicker.

Ok so you admit that you can't counter my points. I'm stating facts that are not politically correct, and don't align with the western narrative. If I'm lying and so dumb, then it would be very easy to show me up. I know what I'm talking about with Ukraine, calling me a Putin arselicker doesn't make you win a argument. Notice I don't go around verbally abusing other posters.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

I'm not surprised at the fear.

The sooner they start proper peace talks the better.
Like the ones the West scuppered in 2022 ?

Offline RedKettle

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No point debating with Jerboa. Just about everything he posts is now a lie and he's  too damned thick to realise we all know. He just keeps repeating the pro-Russian diatribe in the hope that if he repeats it often enough it'll become true. Of course it won't, except in his distorted mind.
By answering him you're giving him the chance to validate his false tales with even further lies. Falsehood upon falsehood upon falsehood. If you trying arguing with him he'll draw you further and further into the Russian web of lies to the point where black=white and 2+2=5.
He's just another Putin arselicker.

For someone who claims to love this country, understand our culture etc it is a strange position to take, being pro Putin.  To me it is very un British.  Not sure he lies, I think he is just gullible and taken in by what he is reading and seeing.   He has no decency or values at his core which makes him a perfect dupe for Putin and TR.

Talking un British, so is sticking up flags all over the place - do they think we are French, or even worse American!  We put flags up to celebrate things like the Euros not for some political quasi patriotic bullshit.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

I think he is just gullible and taken in by what he is reading and seeing.
The words pot and kettle immediately spring to mind ......


Offline RedKettle

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The words pot and kettle immediately spring to mind ......

We are never going to agree - you take an ultra extreme view and only listen to what reinforces that view.  I am more in the middle and open to listening to views from across the spectrum.  As I have said before when you are so indoctrinated that you cannot acknowledge people deaths as an unqualified tragedy you really need to take a hard look at yourself.

Offline Jerboa

For someone who claims to love this country, understand our culture etc it is a strange position to take, being pro Putin.  To me it is very un British.  Not sure he lies, I think he is just gullible and taken in by what he is reading and seeing.   He has no decency or values at his core which makes him a perfect dupe for Putin and TR.

Talking un British, so is sticking up flags all over the place - do they think we are French, or even worse American!  We put flags up to celebrate things like the Euros not for some political quasi patriotic bullshit.

Have you ever considered you're being lied to about Ukraine? I'm not pro Putin, I'm pro reality, our idiots who are in government would quickly take us to war, thinking they would survive.
What are you wittering on about flags? Are you a commie?

Offline RedKettle

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Have you ever considered you're being lied to about Ukraine? I'm not pro Putin, I'm pro reality, our idiots who are in government would quickly take us to war, thinking they would survive.
What are you wittering on about flags? Are you a commie?

I believe I have a good grasp on what is happening in Ukraine and I understand Russia incredibly well with a degree of inside information.  People like you are taken in by the extensive Russian operation over here and are frankly gullible fools.

Flags was a separate point about the ridiculous Reform and others putting them up everywhere - a practice that is very foreign and very unBritish.  Nothing to do with Russia, just another example of a breakdown in our culture.

Do not understand the "commie" point as Communist regimes are also ones that like to put up flags.   

Offline Jerboa

I believe I have a good grasp on what is happening in Ukraine and I understand Russia incredibly well with a degree of inside information.  People like you are taken in by the extensive Russian operation over here and are frankly gullible fools.

Flags was a separate point about the ridiculous Reform and others putting them up everywhere - a practice that is very foreign and very unBritish.  Nothing to do with Russia, just another example of a breakdown in our culture.

Do not understand the "commie" point as Communist regimes are also ones that like to put up flags.

Okay then, please tell us about your insight into Ukraine/Russia.


Online DastardlyDick

There has been a military draft in Russia.

Looking at the war footage, I dont know how they get people to do it. Many left the country when they first announced conscription. Why should they risk their lives because Putin wants to prove that he is the new Stalin.

External Link/Members Only
Russia always used to be a largely Agrarian Economy, people had lots of kids, and they all helped at harvest time. Because of this, it meant that they always had a vast supply of young men (and, later, women) to send to war, they could afford to send save after wave of troops and basically overwhelm the enemy through sheer numbers. That doctrine started under the Tsars and kept going through to the present day. What hasn't kept pace is the birth rate, which has been declining over the years, so they can't do it for as long, and basic Russian racism means they'll always try to get troops from outside Russia proper, so they get them from the Far East and North Korea.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Russia always used to be a largely Agrarian Economy, people had lots of kids, and they all helped at harvest time. Because of this, it meant that they always had a vast supply of young men (and, later, women) to send to war, they could afford to send save after wave of troops and basically overwhelm the enemy through sheer numbers. That doctrine started under the Tsars and kept going through to the present day. What hasn't kept pace is the birth rate, which has been declining over the years, so they can't do it for as long, and basic Russian racism means they'll always try to get troops from outside Russia proper, so they get them from the Far East and North Korea.
Of course Britain would never sacrifice the youth of its country to protect the interests of its moneyed elites.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Okay then, please tell us about your insight into Ukraine/Russia.
He'll have to scour his BBC archive first.

Offline Jerboa

Russia always used to be a largely Agrarian Economy, people had lots of kids, and they all helped at harvest time. Because of this, it meant that they always had a vast supply of young men (and, later, women) to send to war, they could afford to send save after wave of troops and basically overwhelm the enemy through sheer numbers. That doctrine started under the Tsars and kept going through to the present day. What hasn't kept pace is the birth rate, which has been declining over the years, so they can't do it for as long, and basic Russian racism means they'll always try to get troops from outside Russia proper, so they get them from the Far East and North Korea.

If you think Russia still uses human wave tactics today, proves you know very little about the Russian military of today. It's a western propaganda talking point.

Offline Jerboa

He'll have to scour his BBC archive first.

Would be interesting to hear, as he claims to know Russia incredibly well.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Would be interesting to hear, as he claims to know Russia incredibly well.
Let's hope he picks the right BBC archive :cool: :lol:

Offline RedKettle

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Let's hope he picks the right BBC archive :cool: :lol:

That is interesting from you as I proved you were a fool on Russia a little while ago - short memory.

Offline RedKettle

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If you think Russia still uses human wave tactics today, proves you know very little about the Russian military of today. It's a western propaganda talking point.

Depends what you mean by "today".  I agree at the moment they are not but they have used the tactic, or dam close to it, in the current invasion. 

Offline RedKettle

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Would be interesting to hear, as he claims to know Russia incredibly well.

I have been there for extended periods and still have contact with people who live there - which means that I know some of the comments M & B has made about life in Russia are utter bullshit.  It is a hard country to know "incredibly well" and I have never made that claim.  It tends to be the ignorant who believe they know everything.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

That is interesting from you as I proved you were a fool on Russia a little while ago - short memory.
Proved ? Interesting take on the concept of proof.

Offline Jerboa

Depends what you mean by "today".  I agree at the moment they are not but they have used the tactic, or dam close to it, in the current invasion.

Wagner did use convict assault units, which had a high rate of attrition, Prigozhin didn't want to waste the highly trained troops on direct assaults. This is one of the main arguments he and the Russian MoD had, the MoD banned him using them in 2023.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

I have been there for extended periods and still have contact with people who live there - which means that I know some of the comments M & B has made about life in Russia are utter bullshit.  It is a hard country to know "incredibly well" and I have never made that claim.  It tends to be the ignorant who believe they know everything.
I haven't really gone into Russian life at all.
I have concentrated on the propaganda spewing out of the collective West.
What everyone constantly ignores is the incongruity of Putin having plans to invade current NATO countries like Poland, Finland, or any of the major supplier of lethal aid to Zelensky and his cronies, and Putin simultaneously having a crumbling, badly motivated , backward armed forces.
As I've said and many US politicians have broken cover and admitted, it's not about Ukraine and its 'freedom', it's about undermining Russia and by extension, China.

Offline WARSZAWA16

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Nicola Sturgeon finds herself struggling to log in to a website...


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Offline Blackpool Rock

If you think Russia still uses human wave tactics today, proves you know very little about the Russian military of today. It's a western propaganda talking point.
The point is that in Russia they haven't historically been bothered about sacrificing large swathes of fighting men, Stalin was a bigger cunt than Hitler and killed more of his own people than the Nazis did  :thumbsdown:

While even in the UK the lives of our own troops was taken for granted in WW1 sending men over the top to run at machine gun posts we moved on from that however the Russian mentality still has life as being fairly cheap

Online DastardlyDick

If you think Russia still uses human wave tactics today, proves you know very little about the Russian military of today. It's a western propaganda talking point.
You, of course, are the former Russian Army General Yehudi Nikabolokov?

Offline Vice Admiral

It gets worse and worse, for those of us who (on this one occasion) want a Reform UK victory in the Makerfield by-election so that the upstart Burnham doesn't make it into the House of Commons and (almost certainly) into 10 Downing Street.

According to today's Times, in 2016 "Reform UK’s by-election candidate in Makerfield criticised Brexiteers for peddling  ‘nationalist pish’ and warned leaving the EU would inflict economic harm on the country.”  Not quite what your average Reform voter wants to hear.

Meanwhile, though the Greens now have a new candidate, “Party sources have privately decided to run a limited campaign in the Makerfield by-election after concerns were raised about splitting the left-wing vote and making it easier for a Reform MP to win.”

So, more lefties for Burnham.  Fewer right-wingers for Reform UK.

I’ll be astonished if Burnham doesn’t win.

In his Sunday Times column this week, Jeremy Clarkson focuses on the Green Party candidate in the Makerfield by-election, Sarah Wakefield.  Like me, Clarkson wants Andy Burnham to lose but, as previously discussed, the apparent weakness of the Green candidate (and the party’s apparently half-hearted approach to the by-election, because they don’t want to stop Labour winning) – together with the votes that Reform UK will lose to Restore Britain – have greatly enhanced the likelihood of a Labour victory.

Anyway, here are the final two paragraphs of Clarkson’s article:

All of which brings me back to the by-election which Sarah will contest, even though she’s been gagged and gaffer-taped to a chair by her party bosses. I really don’t like the way it’s been caused because the sitting MP decided to stand down, so Burnham can get to Westminster and therefore mount a leadership challenge on Sir Starmer. There’s no dignity in that.

But it’s happening whether I like it or not and it seems to be a straight, two-horse race between Reform and Labour. Labour are the favourites, I understand, but can you imagine if the left-leaning people of Makerfield were aware of Sarah and what a decent hardworking mother she is? Could she win? Probably not, but if she split the vote and caused Burnham to lose, he would look like a massive arse. And so would the idiot who gave up his job to make way for him. With that thought ringing in my head, I will end by saying what the Green Party will not: go Sarah. Go.

Offline Doc Holliday

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I grasp the point and it makes total sense , you can try the Cuban missile Crisis he should be able to grasp this

Listen you annoying little man ... I misread and misunderstood his post as a result of trying to follow a complex discussion and unexpectedly having to look after a hyperactive four old grandchild. I apologised and sensibly retired.

When you decide to answer my posts asking you direct questions rather than just ignore them, then you can try and have a pop at my intelligence. Until you do, then shut the fuck up  :hi:

Oh and the Cuban missile crisis was a real life event not an 'extremely' hypothetical situation to try and illustrate a point.

Offline Doc Holliday

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 and Putin simultaneously having a crumbling, badly motivated , backward armed forces.


Not according to your new 'bestie'. So do you think Putin mounted a military campaign in 2022 to 'win'? By that I mean topple the Ukraine government.

Offline Doc Holliday

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You weren't the only one saying in 2022 that Russia would overwhelm Ukraine. The US joint chief of staff and many military analyst thought they would, because they believed Russia would use a conventional war fighting doctrine.

Did you not also think they would?

I am curious what you define as a 'conventional' war fighting doctrine and from there how the Russian doctrine differs? :hi:

Offline Squire Haggard

The point is that in Russia they haven't historically been bothered about sacrificing large swathes of fighting men, Stalin was a bigger cunt than Hitler and killed more of his own people than the Nazis did  :thumbsdown:

While even in the UK the lives of our own troops was taken for granted in WW1 sending men over the top to run at machine gun posts we moved on from that however the Russian mentality still has life as being fairly cheap
:drinks:

Offline Jerboa

You, of course, are the former Russian Army General Yehudi Nikabolokov?

Sorry, I'm just calling out BS when I see it, tbf western media does keep repeating this nonsense, if Moscow had little care for it's own loses, they would have been on the right bank of the Dnieper by 2023.

Offline Jerboa

Did you not also think they would?

I am curious what you define as a 'conventional' war fighting doctrine and from there how the Russian doctrine differs? :hi:

Nobody had ever heard of the term Special Military Operation. Nato generals, military analysts and other professionals thought Russia was going to steam roll Ukraine and it be over in a week. Clausewitz argued that warfare should not be viewed as an isolated, senseless act of violence. Instead, it is a rational political instrument. When diplomacy, negotiations, and economic pressure (traditional politics) fail to achieve a state's goals, military force is deployed to compel the enemy to yield. This is what they got, Ukraine agreed to negotiations.

Offline RedKettle

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